What is exactly and specifically "wrong" with operating under the Old Covenant...?

[Neogaia777]

If "any letter of any Law" is "wrong", then how do or can we know the "true Law" (which would include the real, true way) so as to obey (it)...?

God Bless!

 

[Vicomte13]

But obeying to "Two" perfectly, will be obeying the "Ten" or the "entire moral Law" perfectly, as well, or also...

Which would make having the "right way" figured out, and I do believe that "right way" has to do much, much more with the "two" than it does the "ten" or whole moral Law or the "letter of the, or any Law", or Law's, specifically...

God Bless!

The Ten Commandments are not the moral law. They were a law for Hebrews at Sinai and in Israel. The moral law is the commandments of Jesus, and they are different.

Also, this whole business of "the moral law" is NOT PART OF THE LAW. The ceremonial/moral distinction is not in the law. It's made up. And making things up is adding something, and that's breaking the law.

Really, you are in a trap. You need to stop studying Moses and focus like a laser beam on JESUS. HE is the one God told you to listen to.

Jesus gives a different set of laws that will get you damned. They're in Genesis, and they're not the ten. Theft and covetousness, for example, are not on the list of things that will get you damned to the lake of fire - not there. Property crime and thought crime about property are part of the Ten Commandments, but NOT part of Jesus' list of deadly sins.

Really, you will do so much better if you devote your energy to understanding JESUS' law fully. It is much more complex and much harder than Moses'. You can't keep it either, but Jesus never said "break one, break 'em all". Rather, he said that to be forgiven by God, you have to forgive. It's a very different law.

 

[Vicomte13]

If "any letter of any Law" is "wrong", then how do or can we know the "true Law" (which would include the real, true way) so as to obey (it)...?

God Bless!

"This is my beloved son, listen to HIM!"

That is your answer. STOP focusing on the other stuff. Focus like a laser beam on what JESUS said. Leave the rest aside. The WHOLE LAW that applies NOW, to YOU, is encompassed in what he said. He said that all foods are clean. That's the end of it. There is no kosher for you. Leave it be. He did not include Sabbath keeping as something that was required, so leave it be. Theft is not a mortal sin. That doesn't mean "go steal", but it does mean don't emphasize it. Lying and sexual immorality are mortal sins, and pretty universal among men. Look at those sins, acknowledge that you commit them, and that therefore you're doomed to the lake of fire unless you are forgiven. Then look at what JESUS said you have to do to be forgiven. Jesus provided a complete law. It's less comprehensive than the Law of Moses, but it penetrates much more deeply.

 

[Neogaia777]

"This is my beloved son, listen to HIM!"

That is your answer. STOP focusing on the other stuff. Focus like a laser beam on what JESUS said. Leave the rest aside. The WHOLE LAW that applies NOW, to YOU, is encompassed in what he said. He said that all foods are clean. That's the end of it. There is no kosher for you. Leave it be. He did not include Sabbath keeping as something that was required, so leave it be. Theft is not a mortal sin. That doesn't mean "go steal", but it does mean don't emphasize it. Lying and sexual immorality are mortal sins, and pretty universal among men. Look at those sins, acknowledge that you commit them, and that therefore you're doomed to the lake of fire unless you are forgiven. Then look at what JESUS said you have to do to be forgiven. Jesus provided a complete law. It's less comprehensive than the Law of Moses, but it penetrates much more deeply.

I do think it is in my heart and mind, put there by Him, but trying to put into words is another story... But I just feel like I do "know it"/Him...

I guess I'm just gonna follow that I guess...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

@Vicomte13 "I" am doing just fine, and I'm not really even paying attention to or even studying or anything Moses or the Old Law Covenant right now, but I do know it/them from previously going over and studying them before...

I am (actually) entirely focused on Jesus and you don't have to worry about me, although I do appreciate the concern and say thank you to you...

But I do worry about "others" and other people though...

I'm not really doing any of this for me... Although I do sometimes benefit from it as well, that is not my primary motivation, driving force, and/or reasons...

I'm just fine, I'm good actually, but thanks for the concern...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

The Ten Commandments are not the moral law. They were a law for Hebrews at Sinai and in Israel. The moral law is the commandments of Jesus, and they are different.

Also, this whole business of "the moral law" is NOT PART OF THE LAW. The ceremonial/moral distinction is not in the law. It's made up. And making things up is adding something, and that's breaking the law.

Really, you are in a trap. You need to stop studying Moses and focus like a laser beam on JESUS. HE is the one God told you to listen to.

Jesus gives a different set of laws that will get you damned. They're in Genesis, and they're not the ten. Theft and covetousness, for example, are not on the list of things that will get you damned to the lake of fire - not there. Property crime and thought crime about property are part of the Ten Commandments, but NOT part of Jesus' list of deadly sins.

Really, you will do so much better if you devote your energy to understanding JESUS' law fully. It is much more complex and much harder than Moses'. You can't keep it either, but Jesus never said "break one, break 'em all". Rather, he said that to be forgiven by God, you have to forgive. It's a very different law.

It's kind of like "eye for eye" but reversed, or in reverse...

Instead of "doing to others what they have done to you", it is "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", which is much, much "better" by far, for that comes out of faith and love (and truth) (or is "The Truth")...

But also not expecting others to "do unto you as you have done unto them", because most of time, truth be told, most of the time they just "won't" and that is something we should also expect, but "do unto them as you would have them do unto you" anyway, regardless...

Not expecting anything back or in return...

For that/this "Is Love"...

God Bless!

 

[Blade]

Even GOD told us Jer 31 "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

The temple.. no stone left.. that LAST lamb came gone.. there is no OLD one can still do.. not there..

Christ came did what? He fulfilled what? Again Christ came.. This was the plan from the start.. and.. YOUR not the same as the people before Christ came. They HAD to have the law.. they didnt know better.. NOW Gods LAWS are written on your heart.. it was not on theirs. Do the law or not.. wont save anyone. And you do ALL 613 or you fail in all. And NO ONE kept the law but ONE.

 

[parousia70]

Going by, basically... living under, or trying hard (and maybe exerting themselves to a great degree, lot's of self-effort and self-will) to live under or by...

AD70 made that impossible.

 

[parousia70]

The temple.. no stone left.. that LAST lamb came gone.. there is no OLD one can still do.. not there..

Exactly.

 

[fhansen]

What's wrong with operating under the Old Covenant is simply that it cannot reestablish union between man and God. This relationship, this communion, is the essence of man's justice and the fount of all true righteousness in man. Reconciliation between man and God is the reason Jesus came.

 

[fhansen]

If "any letter of any Law" is "wrong", then how do or can we know the "true Law" (which would include the real, true way) so as to obey (it)...?

God Bless!

The church has always held that Christians are bound to keep the Ten Commandments. The right way to do so is under grace, by the Spirit, rather than by the letter, even if the letter is absolutely correct in this case. The letter shows us the right way, the Spirit provides the right way to fulfill it. The Spirit fulfills the law in us as it causes us to love as God loves.

 

[JAYPT]

Are we not dead to the law if we are in Christ? Wasnt He the fulfillment of the law? Isnt the law a ministry of condemnation and death? Are we to be mixing Jesus with Moses? Wasn't the law to show us our need for Christ? So why flirt with the law? So I guess my question is that if Christ is coming back with no reference to sin and those who are in Him are not going to be judged, why are we worried about it?

 

[Neogaia777]

Are we not dead to the law if we are in Christ?

The "letter of the Law", but not it's Spirit, or the "Spirit of it" (the Law), or behind it, or the original intentions behind it of the God behind it, or His intentions, when it was instituted, which Jesus shows us, and shows really and truly how, (to truly obey it, fulfill it, ect)...

God Bless!

 

[misput]

Faith in what...?

Or drawing back, or shrinking back ,or turning back, or turning away from "what" exactly...?

God Bless!

Basically you are talking about having faith in God in the OT, Christ In the NT to save us, or faith in our self keeping the law to save ourselves. This was true in the old testament as well as the new. Drawing back is to profess faith in Him but in reality be trusting in our self keeping the law. It is a simple but sensitive issue as far as we are concerned bust rest assured He knows. To answer another question, we are all under the law once we become accountable (some believe from conception).

 

[misput]

The "letter of the Law", but not it's Spirit, or the "Spirit of it" (the Law), or behind it, or the original intentions behind it of the God behind it, or His intentions, when it was instituted, which Jesus shows us, and shows really and truly how, (to truly obey it, fulfill it, ect)...

God Bless!

What were the intentions? how do we truly obey it?

 

[RDKirk]

What is exactly and specifically "wrong" with operating under the Old Covenant...?

What's the "harm" in it...?

And is it scripturally "wrong"...?

And, if it is, "why" (is that)...? (please provide scriptures if you like)... (or IYOW's if you like)...

And, what about people who might think they are operating under the NC, but are not totally, but are attempting some kind of "mix" or mixture of the two...?

Is there any "harm" in that...? And if so, how or why...?

And, lastly, are they really "Christians" if they are doing this, or not...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

The Old Covenant required regular sacrifices under the supervision of the priests at the place designated by God for the atonement of sins. Because that can't be done anymore, there is no way to atone for sin under the Old Covenant.

 

[Neogaia777]

What were the intentions?

To make us all "perfect"... And the world perfect...

how do we truly obey it?

Well now, that is "the question" isn't it...?

I am fully confident that Jesus (and/or God) already showed us all how, but it is for us to uncover it and "figure it out" so to speak, and it/that is something I am currently working on right now...? (got a few other threads going to that aim)...

They did "put it all there" for us, but it is in a "mystery" or is "shrouded in a, or many, "mysteries" and/or riddles/parables (for us)...

Care to join me...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

The Old Covenant required regular sacrifices under the supervision of the priests at the place designated by God for the atonement of sins. Because that can't be done anymore, there is no way to atone for sin under the Old Covenant.

Which is why we need and did need Christ, I know...

But, now, no offense intended at all, but, what is your "point"...?

God Bless!

 

[misput]

To make us all "perfect"... And the world perfect...



Well now, that is "the question" isn't it...?

I am fully confident that Jesus (and/or God) already showed us all how, but it is for us to uncover it and "figure it out" so to speak, and it/that is something I am currently working on right now...? (got a few other threads going to that aim)...

They did "put it all there" for us, but it is in a "mystery" or is "shrouded in a, or many, "mysteries" and/or riddles/parables (for us)...

Care to join me...?

God Bless!

I already have, did you overlook post #74?

 

[Neogaia777]

Basically you are talking about having faith in God in the OT, Christ In the NT to save us, or faith in our self keeping the law to save ourselves.

The first two but not the last one...

This was true in the old testament as well as the new.

Agreed (I think?)...

Drawing back is to profess faith in Him but in reality be trusting in our self keeping the law.

That could be one meaning of it or one of ti's meanings, yes...? But are there "others"...? Not having courage for example...?

It is a simple but sensitive issue as far as we are concerned bust rest assured He knows.

Yes, He does... But I also believe has made a way for us to all find out, as well...

To answer another question, we are all under the law once we become accountable (some believe from conception).

Were not under the "letter of the Law" or any Law really... But are under the "Spirit" of it, or behind it... revealed in things like the Royal Law, (and or Laws), which are still rather vague, (when written down or put in writing) and are "subject to interpretation", that I believe is for us to seek and find out...

God Bless!