How is "glory" different from "ego"?

[The Righterzpen]

You are just jumping from assumption to assumption and making personal attacks left and right.

at this point I should be reporting it because you are harassing is what you're doing.

"he doesn't agree with me so I'm going to bully him"

I mean the equivalent of what you're doing would be like if I started referring to you as "the accuser of our brethren"

Figure it out between you and God. Your conflict is with Him, not me. I have not accused you of anything that hasn’t come out of your own mouth.

Several people have tried to help you with this, yet your stubborn accusations against God remain.

Unless of course you are retracting all you’ve accused God of? If that’s the case then we can have a different conversation; but of all I’ve seen of your comments; you are convinced that God is guilty of sin.

 

[Jamdoc]

Figure it out between you and God. Your conflict is with Him, not me. I have not accused you of anything that hasn’t come out of your own mouth.

Several people have tried to help you with this, yet your stubborn accusations against God remain.

Unless of course you are retracting all you’ve accused God of? If that’s the case then we can have a different conversation; but of all I’ve seen of your comments; you are convinced that God is guilty of sin.

No, I'm not saying God is guilty of sin.

I'm saying that if God did everything, letting creation fall to ruin, and then redeeming it, for praise, I don't understand how being praised is so desirable that it's worth all the ruin and death along the way.

I already know that I'm wrong and God is right in this, and my valuation of praise must be off if I don't consider it worth the destruction of an entire planet, I just can't relate to that desire and that is frustrating and depressing.

Meanwhile you're accusing me of being proud and thinking I want to supplant God and be God myself, essentially accusing me of being Satan, being proud and wanting to supplant God and replace Him.
I can't even unscrew a jar or bottle without fumbling and bumbling it and it falling to the floor. I can't even hold a pen and write my name without my fingers jerking all over the place and making an illegible mess. I can't even walk a few hundred feet without my legs going numb under me and almost spilling me to the floor. I can't make a friend much less have people adore me nor do I desire it, I can't handle crowds, why would I want to be surrounded by one being praised?
I can't run a household much less an entire universe. Only God is qualified to do that. One of the promises of Jesus *is* authority and I am anxious about that because I know I'd be terrible at running anything even a closet or an ant colony.

Yet somehow you think I want to be God. I don't have the same desire for praise and worship He does, I can't even understand why He does.

 

[Hentenza]

I'm disappointed with anyone who does something for a self serving reason, including myself.

Let’s see. God creates the heavens and earth. He then creates humans. Humans fall and sin against God. God clothes them and send them of their way. The earth populates with humans that hate God so God wipes out humanity. New humanity populates the earth and He chooses a peoples. He saves His people from slavery and takes them to the promised land and, like your kids in a long road trip, they whine all the way there including committing idolatry. God then sends prophets and judges to guide them but they don’t listen except when they are oppressed. Fast forward to after Malachi and God removes the prophets. End of first half. Get popcorn.

New covenant begins so God sends His only son to be crucified for the sins of the world because if He didn’t do that then the world would not make it. So the Word became flesh and dwelt with us for a bit. God gave up His Godness so that the world could be saved. Jesus is resurrected and becomes our Lord and savior to which we pray in Jesus name. The world now has a way of being saved. End of act 2. Bathroom time and get a soda.

Now God is an infinite God which means that there is an infinite difference between God and a measly finite being like us. Also God is omniscient so He knew exactly what He was getting into. He did all of this for us because God is love and loved His creation. Does any of this sounds like an ego trip? Of course not. After all that He has done for you praise, prayers, and glory should be the least that you should do.

Have a blessed day.

 

[The Righterzpen]

No, I'm not saying God is guilty of sin.

I'm saying that if God did everything, letting creation fall to ruin, and then redeeming it, for praise, I don't understand how being praised is so desirable that it's worth all the ruin and death along the way.

I already know that I'm wrong and God is right in this, and my valuation of praise must be off if I don't consider it worth the destruction of an entire planet, I just can't relate to that desire and that is frustrating and depressing.

Meanwhile you're accusing me of being proud and thinking I want to supplant God and be God myself, essentially accusing me of being Satan, being proud and wanting to supplant God and replace Him.
I can't even unscrew a jar or bottle without fumbling and bumbling it and it falling to the floor. I can't even hold a pen and write my name without my fingers jerking all over the place and making an illegible mess. I can't even walk a few hundred feet without my legs going numb under me and almost spilling me to the floor. I can't make a friend much less have people adore me nor do I desire it, I can't handle crowds, why would I want to be surrounded by one being praised?
I can't run a household much less an entire universe. Only God is qualified to do that. One of the promises of Jesus *is* authority and I am anxious about that because I know I'd be terrible at running anything even a closet or an ant colony.

Yet somehow you think I want to be God. I don't have the same desire for praise and worship He does, I can't even understand why He does.

Yet if you know you're wrong; why do you keep insisting that "the glory of God" is for God's own selfish reasons? And if you don't understand what "the glory of God" is; why do you assume it's for reasons that are "narcissistically abusive"? (That is a phrase you used.) This isn't actually about "being autistic and understanding the meaning of the word "glory"." Even if you don't understand what it means; you just admitted that you are wrong about its meaning. So why cling to the assumption that God's motives must be self serving?

Lots of people in the course of this thread have given you plenty of examples of how God is NOT selfish. (God is actually the exact opposite of everything that selfishness is!) Yet you have disregarded EVERY single one of those examples. And the closest to truth self revelation you confessed was:

I've asked God for help daily... for decades
and have not received it.

And out of this anger; you assume your default perception / definition of God's motives of "glory" must be selfishness. You are angry at God because whatever it is you wish was different about your life, has not come to fruition. But why should your life be free of struggles. Mine certainly isn't. Neither is my son's. Neither was Jesus's. Or any other entity in this corrupt cosmos. Welcome to the consequences of the fall! Why should you be spared? No one else is.

And this is how and where you are accusing God of sin. And it's sin because you "don't consider it worth the destruction of an entire planet"; and or the suffering of your own life. And well..... why is that? How do you know it isn't worth the destruction of an entire planet (even though that isn't what happens). And I've explained that to you too. Yet in your mind; you are right and God is wrong. That is to put your own judgment above God's. (That you don't think His glory is worth the destruction of a planet.) Which is to accuse God of sin. You think you know better than God. That is called pride.

Now, let's throw this concept in here too: Holiness. (This will explain why corrupt things are either destroyed or refined.)
Do you understand what the consequence of God being holy is? This means that corruption can not stand in His presence. Anything corrupted with evil cannot survive His presence. That is why He told Moses, "You can not see my face and live." The inability for corruption to stand in God's presence isn't necessarily a result of God's "willful deliberation". It's a consequence of the nature of the entity that God is. And that nature is governed by holiness.

Thus the example I gave you of fire. If you throw a piece of paper into a fire; what happens to it? (It burns up.) Why does it burn up? (Because of the nature of what fire is.) But if you throw gold into a fire; what happens to the gold? (The fire burns off the impurities.) The "burning of the elements with fervent heat" is the Refiner's fire. That happens because the glory of His presence interjects the fullness of His purity into this corrupted space. And because corruption is impure; the glory of His holiness burns it off. And what rises out of that purification? (The new heavens and the new earth!)

Which brings me to... (poke you (again) with this revelation). The entire cosmos minus unregenerate rebellious men and fallen angels, will be raised incorruptible. When you consider the body of a believer raised to..... ehem - glory! Is that actually destruction, or is it not? The planet will not be "destroyed"; or not in the eternal sense at least. And believers raised to.... (there's that "glory" word again). Does that mean they are "raised to selfishness"? (Of course it doesn't; that doesn't make sense!)

So to all that God "raises to glory".... What does that mean?
If that equates to God being "selfish"; hey... I'll gladly praise a "selfish" God. (Do you remember the statement about people praising God because they are grateful?)

Certainly seeing how that "selfishness" saved my miserable life! I got something to look forward to beyond this miserable life!

 

[Jamdoc]

Yet if you know you're wrong; why do you keep insisting that "the glory of God" is for God's own selfish reasons? And if you don't understand what "the glory of God" is; why do you assume it's for reasons that are "narcissistically abusive"? (That is a phrase you used.)

I didn't use the term abusive to my knowledge

and I didn't assume, like I said, I listened to John Piper who basically laid out that Jesus did not go to the cross for any sinner, but for His own glory.
That the motivation was self not others.
He said "God loves God more that He loves you, or me or all of us combined"

and this is not a fringe guy at all.

This isn't actually about "being autistic and understanding the meaning of the word "glory"." Even if you don't understand what it means; you just admitted that you are wrong about its meaning. So why cling to the assumption that God's motives must be self serving?

I said I'm wrong to place so little value in praise if God places so much value in it.
I just don't understand that valuation of praise.

Lots of people in the course of this thread have given you plenty of examples of how God is NOT selfish. (God is actually the exact opposite of everything that selfishness is!) Yet you have disregarded EVERY single one of those examples. And the closest to truth self revelation you confessed was:

And out of this anger; you assume your default perception / definition of God's motives of "glory" must be selfishness. You are angry at God because whatever it is you wish was different about your life, has not come to fruition. But why should your life be free of struggles. Mine certainly isn't. Neither is my son's. Neither was Jesus's. Or any other entity in this corrupt cosmos. Welcome to the consequences of the fall! Why should you be spared? No one else is.

It goes way beyond that. If it was just me.. whatever. But it's a lot of people who suffer, and even if it was just people, we all sin so we deserve worse anyway. But animals did not sin, but they're subjected to the consequences, and unlike humans they are NOT specifically stated to be resurrected. So their suffering and death is kind of swept under the rug.

and to be fair, when we see ants or spiders or flies in our homes.. we just kill them without a second thought. we violently just end life because we do not value that life very much. That's how it seems like many Christians view the death and suffering of animals and birds as a result of the fall, much less the eschatological mass extinctions.

Revelation 8

8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

and
Revelation 16

3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

When we get to the New Earth

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

So all the whales, dolphins, sea otters, sea turtles, fish, octopi, etc.. just totally gone. No place for them. I guess we're just supposed to view them the way we view flies.. squish and forget.

And this is how and where you are accusing God of sin. And it's sin because you "don't consider it worth the destruction of an entire planet"; and or the suffering of your own life. And well..... why is that? How do you know it isn't worth the destruction of an entire planet (even though that isn't what happens).

But the planet does get destroyed, totally.

2 Peter 3:

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

and as I quoted Revelation 21 earlier, the first Earth passes away, totally gone.

as to why I don't consider praise to be worth the destruction of an entire planet I mean.. it's words. It's lip service, and when it's hymns it's just repeating words that someone else wrote, not even something coming from you heartfelt just recitation.

a group of people singing "how great thou art" to you worth the extinction of species? I don't understand that at all.

And I've explained that to you too. Yet in your mind; you are right and God is wrong. That is to put your own judgment above God's. (That you don't think His glory is worth the destruction of a planet.) Which is to accuse God of sin. You think you know better than God. That is called pride.

Now, let's throw this concept in here too: Holiness. (This will explain why corrupt things are either destroyed or refined.)
Do you understand what the consequence of God being holy is? This means that corruption can not stand in His presence. Anything corrupted with evil cannot survive His presence. That is why He told Moses, "You can not see my face and live." The inability for corruption to stand in God's presence isn't necessarily a result of God's "willful deliberation". It's a consequence of the nature of the entity that God is. And that nature is governed by holiness.

Thus the example I gave you of fire. If you throw a piece of paper into a fire; what happens to it? (It burns up.) Why does it burn up? (Because of the nature of what fire is.) But if you throw gold into a fire; what happens to the gold? (The fire burns off the impurities.) The "burning of the elements with fervent heat" is the Refiner's fire. That happens because the glory of His presence interjects the fullness of His purity into this corrupted space. And because corruption is impure; the glory of His holiness burns it off. And what rises out of that purification? (The new heavens and the new earth!)

Which brings me to... (poke you (again) with this revelation). The entire cosmos minus unregenerate rebellious men and fallen angels, will be raised incorruptible. When you consider the body of a believer raised to..... ehem - glory! Is that actually destruction, or is it not? The planet will not be "destroyed"; or not in the eternal sense at least. And believers raised to.... (there's that "glory" word again). Does that mean they are "raised to selfishness"? (Of course it doesn't; that doesn't make sense!)

I didn't say the word glory meant "selfishness" I said that the definitions I understood of "glory" are honor/renown (so reputation, what other people think of you), and giving of praise. That is what I termed as ego stroking, and having a plan in which a majority of people are eternally tortured, and animals who did not sin suffer and die, just for praise, seems lopsided.

Now the thing is, yes many posters have responded. but I've gotten basically a response of "well it wasn't all for praise but even if it was, how is that a bad thing?

"I don't look forward to singing 24/7" I might say and then someone will say "well that's not all we'll do, but even if it was, it would be great"
and that's a disconnect for me. Singing is something I hate doing and basically have to feel compelled by social pressure or actual threat to coerce me into doing it, to which I basically mumble along with it, because I hate the sound and feel of my voice.
I get it, for many people singing is something they do when they're happy, as an expression of joy. For me, it's not, and every time I've even tried singing, even in the shower or in the car, even a song I like, even singing "happy birthday" for a loved one, it's always instant regret that I shouldn't have even opened my ugly mouth, if I'm alone (and thankfully so) I stop after a few words with regrets, regardless of what song it was, and it's not just that I'm bad at it, I have no desire to be good at it either. I tried it because other people find it pleasant.

So yes, when it's pitched that we spend eternity singing praise and thanksgiving for the temporal life we lived on this cursed Earth, I regret being born, because this life is miserable and beyond that it's eternity of doing something I hate doing, or being tortured forever. Total unconsciousness sounds preferable to all 3 other outcomes.

So to all that God "raises to glory".... What does that mean?
If that equates to God being "selfish"; hey... I'll gladly praise a "selfish" God. (Do you remember the statement about people praising God because they are grateful?)

Certainly seeing how that "selfishness" saved my miserable life! I got something to look forward to beyond this miserable life!

Well that's great if you enjoy singing.