What is exactly and specifically "wrong" with operating under the Old Covenant...?

[Neogaia777]

I already have, did you overlook post #74?

See post just above, or right above this one...

God Bless!

 

[RDKirk]

Which is why we need and did need Christ, I know...

But, now, no offense intended at all, but, what is your "point"...?

God Bless!

The point is that is what is wrong with operating under the Old Covenant--there is no atonement for sins now possible under the Old Covenant, and there was never eternal life in the Old Covenant.

You can't have both Christ and the Old Covenant--that's made clear in Galatians and Hebrews.

 

[JAYPT]

The "letter of the Law", but not it's Spirit, or the "Spirit of it" (the Law), or behind it, or the original intentions behind it of the God behind it, or His intentions, when it was instituted, which Jesus shows us, and shows really and truly how, (to truly obey it, fulfill it, ect)...

God Bless!

Can you tell me how we are to truly obey it or keep it? Because I thought once your dead to something your DEAD to something. Sounds like double talk.

Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
Romans 7:4 NASB

 

[Neogaia777]

The point is that is what is wrong with operating under the Old Covenant--there is no atonement for sins now possible under the Old Covenant, and there was never eternal life in the Old Covenant.

Animals provided a "temporary atonement" which is why we needed Christ, and the OT, even the Law, for it all points to him, and "is him"...

You can't have both Christ and the Old Covenant--that's made clear in Galatians and Hebrews.

But that should not mean that the entire OT, is completely null and void, or invalid, or useless, or is all done away with, or should be all "thrown out", just the "letter of the OT Law Covenant", (or OC)... But not "the entire OT", for the Spirit of it (OT, OC) is still around and is still very much valid and in effect, and is not useless at all or in any way whatsoever... and we need to not get that wrong, or misunderstand, or misinterpret (that), or forget (that) at all, or else...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Can you tell me how we are to truly obey it or keep it?

I told you, I don't know exactly yet, but I have full confidence that Jesus shows us (the way or how)... And/or/because the "standard has not changed" (or the mark, or the target) has not changed... Only the "way" has... I am currently onto one of the keys being it's Spirit or the Spirit of it, written on hearts and consciences, and not on the literal "letter of it", as part of the answer (perhaps a major part of the answer)...?

Wish to help or contribute (which I also asked you earlier)...?

Because I thought once your dead to something your DEAD to something.

Were dead to the "letter of the Law" or any Law, but not it's Spirit, or the Spirit of it/them, which (Spirit) is "in us", and we all know from "within" us, it's just buried under a lot of "garbage" (I guess you could say) is all... And we need to clear that away to get to it...

Want to help...?

God Bless!

 

[misput]

The first two but not the last one...
I think you misunderstood me. It is difficult to communicate.



Agreed (I think?)...What is it you are unclear about?



That could be one meaning of it or one of ti's meanings, yes...? But are there "others"...? Not having courage for example...?

That is the basic one.


Yes, He does... But I also believe has made a way for us to all find out, as well...

He certainly has!



Were not under the "letter of the Law" or any Law really... But are under the "Spirit" of it, or behind it... revealed in things like the Royal Law, (and or Laws), which are still rather vague, (when written down or put in writing) and are "subject to interpretation", that I believe is for us to seek and find out...

I believe we are under the law and until we realize it that is what makes us see our need for salvation, then He frees us from it if we accept Him in faith.

PS: How do I put what the other person said in a quote box?

 

[Neogaia777]

@misput

Cut, copy and paste this partat the top: QUOTE="misput, post: 73437349, member: 412856"

But with these/the brackets [ ] at each end, before each individual part you want to reply or respond too,

and then put this: /QUOTE (at the bottom) with the same brackets and each end, at the end of each part you want to respond or reply to, with your own responses in between...

Hope that helps...

God Bless!

 

[RDKirk]

But that should not mean that the entire OT, is completely null and void, or invalid, or useless, or is all done away with, or should be all "thrown out", just the "letter of the OT Law Covenant", (or OC)... But not "the entire OT", for the Spirit of it (OT, OC) is still around and is still very much valid and in effect, and is not useless at all or in any way whatsoever... and we need to not get that wrong, or misunderstand, or misinterpret (that), or forget (that) at all, or else...

God Bless!

I paid off my old car a year ago, but I still send the bank a check every month, just as I always did, in addition to the check I send in every month for my new car.

Why would I do that? Sure, the same bank is still there, but the first contract is concluded--that debt has been paid. I have a new contract with the bank now, for a much better car. I'm not going to continue sending a check for the old car.

 

[misput]

Neogaia 777, Not to derail the thread but you mentioned The Royal Law, What or is there any difference in it and The Perfect Law of Liberty?

 

[JAYPT]

I told you, I don't know exactly yet, but I have full confidence that Jesus shows us (the way or how)... And/or/because the "standard has not changed" (or the mark, or the target) has not changed... Only the "way" has... I am currently onto one of the keys being it's Spirit or the Spirit of it, written on hearts and consciences, and not on the literal "letter of it", as part of the answer (perhaps a major part of the answer)...?

Wish to help or contribute (which I also asked you earlier)...?



Were dead to the "letter of the Law" or any Law, but not it's Spirit, or the Spirit of it/them, which (Spirit) is "in us", and we all know from "within" us, it's just buried under a lot of "garbage" (I guess you could say) is all... And we need to clear that away to get to it...

Want to help...?

God Bless!

He is the fulfillment of the law, thats all we need to worry about. The law was never given to the gentiles to begin with if we get technical. The law is for the unbeliever, not for the believer, it is to show them their sin. That when the law was given, sin increased, yes increased! ouch....

I would say that reading the old testament is fine, but read it with your new covenant glasses. We dont have to worry about the OC, its done away with by God, we have a new covenant, a better one. So though it might be old, lets not mix it with the new, mixing Jesus with Moses doesnt work.

I would dare say that flirting with Moses is cheating on Jesus.

 

[JohnC2]

What is exactly and specifically "wrong" with operating under the Old Covenant...?

What's the "harm" in it...?

And is it scripturally "wrong"...?

And, if it is, "why" (is that)...? (please provide scriptures if you like)... (or IYOW's if you like)...

And, what about people who might think they are operating under the NC, but are not totally, but are attempting some kind of "mix" or mixture of the two...?

Is there any "harm" in that...? And if so, how or why...?

And, lastly, are they really "Christians" if they are doing this, or not...?

Comments...?

God Bless!

It won’t get you anywhere with God because it was broken long before Jesus was hung on the cross. It’s no longer in effect. It serves as wisdom and insight only.

When a covenant is broken by one party - it’s broken. The other party is no longer under any duty to fulfill their part of it once it is broken. There are no “Do-overs” unless both parties agree to it. That’s what happened with the Golden Calf incident in Exodus. Israel literally “broke” the covenant symbolized by Moses physically shattering the tablets. God recalled him up the mountain to make new tablets for a second go at the covenant. This covenant was officially comemmorated by Moses and the Elders of Israel in Exodus 24. It proclaims that they saw God and ate in His presence.

Sinai was broken fairly soon afterward again. This is confirmed through a prophet in Judges 2:20 - 2 generations after Sinai. Sinai is confirmed as broken several more times for example 2nd Kings 17:15, 18:12, Psalms 78:10 and many many others.

Because this covenant was conditional upon Man’s faithfulness and obedience - God is under no burden to fulfill any part of the broken covenant.... Sort of like how a landlord is not required to provide lodging to people who don’t pay their rent.

And last time I checked - there is no record after Moses of God officially reinstating Sinai as He did in Exodus 24 where God brought the Elders up into His presence on the mountain to confirm His covenant with them...

 

[misput]

@misput

Cut, copy and paste this partat the top: QUOTE="misput, post: 73437349, member: 412856"

But with these/the brackets [ ] at each end, before each individual part you want to reply or respond too,

and then put this: /QUOTE (at the bottom) with the same brackets and each end, at the end of each part you want to respond or reply to, with your own responses in between...

Hope that helps...

God Bless!

Thanks for trying but that seems like a lot of trouble. I am a 1 finger typist so I will just use quotation marks for now. On the previous forums i have been on you just highlight what you want to quote and click on the quotation icon at the top.

 

[Neogaia777]

Neogaia 777, Not to derail the thread but you mentioned The Royal Law, What or is there any difference in it and The Perfect Law of Freedom?

I'd need to know what you mean about "The Perfect Law of Freedom" part...?

Do you mean "no Law at all" or what...?

The "Royal Law" or Laws, have to do with Jesus two commands about Love, and "Treat others as you would have them treat you" stuff as well, (but not expecting them to do the same with you, or anything in return for it also) (cause that's not love, ect)...

These are the basic basis for the "Royal Law"...

But, as I also said, these are pretty vague, and are "subject to interpretation" which is a big part of the problem, like how we each interpret "Godly Love" and having Godly, God-like Love, for example, and "exactly what it is", how it is expressed and/or shown, ect, ect...

Problems can creep in when, and because we have to "interpret it" and because it is "highly subject to interpretation", but it is "in each of us" although usually buried under a lot of "garbage" or trash, so to speak...

But I am also saying that "any letter of any Law" will not, and nor will ever "completely suffice" (unless we can all each agree on the exact same interpretation) (and "good luck" with that)...

We can know from within, if we "take out the trash", so to speak, for it is "in us", but due to it's (when it is expressed in writing) still having and needing to be "interpreted" nature, our ideas may still differ somewhat on it or these...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

It serves as wisdom and insight only.

Very glad you said at least this much about it...

Because this covenant was conditional upon Man’s faithfulness and obedience - God is under no burden to fulfill any part of the broken covenant.... Sort of like how a landlord is not required to provide lodging to people who don’t pay their rent.

Which is why He (YHWH/Christ) eventually changed it right...? At the right time, that is... Changed the covenant or "the way", but not it's standard or standards, but just the way and how to get there, right...?

For apart from us, the Law is good and righteous and holy and perfect, ect, ect... (gotta love Paul)...

Anyway, It is only the "way" that is different now, (for that's what a covenant is) but not it's holy and righteous and good and just and true, high holy standard...

But, there is a whole different and completely new and different way (or Covenant) to "get there" now though...

One of My questions though, is if we have to "do anything at all", or "work" for "any of it at all" or not though...? (which I am discussing in other threads)...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Thanks for trying but that seems like a lot of trouble. I am a 1 finger typist so I will just use quotation marks for now. On the previous forums i have been on you just highlight what you want to quote and click on the quotation icon at the top.

It's just cutting, copying, and pasting... Or copying and pasting...

Just try it a few times, I'm sure you'll get it and it's not really that hard or too much trouble really...

God Bless!

 

[misput]

I'd need to know what you mean about "The Perfect Law of Freedom" part...?

Do you mean "no Law at all" or what...?

The "Royal Law" or Laws, have to do with Jesus two commands about Love, and "Treat others as you would have them treat you" stuff as well, (but not expecting them to do the same with you, or anything in return for it also) (cause that's not love, ect)...

These are the basic basis for the "Royal Law"...

But, as I also said, these are pretty vague, and are "subject to interpretation" which is a big part of the problem, like how we each interpret "Godly Love" and having Godly, God-like Love, for example, and "exactly what it is", how it is expressed and/or shown, ect, ect...

Problems can creep in when, and because we have to "interpret it" and because it is "highly subject to interpretation", but it is "in each of us" although usually buried under a lot of "garbage" or trash, so to speak...

But I am also saying that "any letter of any Law" will not, and nor will ever "completely suffice" (unless we can all each agree on the exact same interpretation) (and "good luck" with that)...

We can know from within, if we "take out the trash", so to speak, for it is "in us", but due to it's (when it is expressed in writing) still having and needing to be "interpreted" nature, our ideas may still differ somewhat on it or these...

God Bless!

James spoke of the Royal Law which you alluded to he also in the same context spoke of The Perfect Law Of Liberty (sorry, I misquoted in my previous post, using the word freedom. Do you see a difference in meaning? I think the royal Law is about the 10 commandments and the Perfect Law of liberty is about The perfect law of Christ. Christ sets us free from the law of bondage.

 

[Neogaia777]

James spoke of the Royal Law which you alluded to he also in the same context spoke of The Perfect Law Of Liberty (sorry, I misquoted in my previous post, using the word freedom. Do you see a difference in meaning? I think the royal Law is about the 10 commandments and the Perfect Law of liberty is about The perfect law of Christ.

I mean no great offense for this, and I hope you'll forgive me ahead of time for this, as I apologize greatly for this... But, much of your, (or this, or the problem with this, or what you are saying right now), comes from the "I" "think" part... (I think) (Ha, Ha)...

Anyway, sorry...

But the Royal Law is about Christ's Law and commands, and not so much about the Ten Commandments, or any of much of the OT, OC, commands...

Don't worry I have and do have and have made, many mistakes myself with the "I think" part, and still do sometimes...

Anyway, sorry again, or in advance...

God Bless!

 

[misput]

I mean no great offense for this, and I hope you'll forgive me ahead of time for this, as I apologize greatly for this... But, much of your, (or this, or the problem with this, or what you are saying right now), comes from the "I" "think" part... (I think) (Ha, Ha)...

Anyway, sorry...

But the Royal Law is about Christ's Law and commands, and not so much about the Ten Commandments, or any of much of the OT, OC, commands...

Don't worry I have and do have and have made, many mistakes myself with the "I think" part, and still do sometimes...

Anyway, sorry again, or in advance...

God Bless!

Maybe I should say I believe but anyway thats perfectly ok, none of us are at the same place in our understanding of God nor does any of us understand it all. Remember the old song "We will understand it all by and by Lord"? Or something like that, indicating in the hearafter?

 

[misput]

"777 But the Royal Law is about Christ's Law and commands, and not so much about the Ten Commandments, or any of much of the OT, OC, commands..." Sort of ironic but do you realize this (and much of your other posts) is what you think or believe, meaning you may be right or not : ) anyway I have enjoyed passing the time with you. God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

Maybe I should say I believe but anyway thats perfectly ok, none of us are at the same place in our understanding of God nor does any of us understand it all. Remember the old song "We will understand it all by and by Lord"? Or something like that, indicating in the hearafter?

Thank You for not being to offended, like I said, I make that mistake a lot sometimes too...

God Bless!