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Featured What church calls leadership is a corrupt theology

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Alithis, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. Pavel Mosko

    Pavel Mosko Arch-Dude of the Apostolic Supporter

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    Personally I would see it as

    Romans 14:4
    4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his ownmaster he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
     
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  2. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    I'm only half way through this thread and find is it sad. I don't understand why a group calling themselves Christians can't be more considerate of each other. I certainly identify with the OP by experience. I'm single. Personally I get just as much fellowship with people at the store as in the church. For me the IC has become nothing more than a very expensive social club. No I'm not going to air what has happened to me. People would only take it wrong. It's for these reasons I'm not part of the IC. Yes some of these have been aired in the thread.
     
  3. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you find a toxic church experience, you should leave it rather than stay. And don't look back like Lot's wife. I looked back at one point and it burned me and its something I regret.

    I know that's hard, especially if you've really believed in the church or felt compelled to go there, but you have to keep psychologically healthy too and trust God to guide you out of where you have been, just like Abraham did.
     
  4. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    I think many pastors are very flustered with our society. I have yet to meet a pastor that has examined life. If everything is going well (eating and meeting other personal needs), don't ask any questions (examine what is taught). What I find is parrots. It's always been that way, it has to be right? Really I could name several things that are base strictly on because its always been that way which aren't true. IOW old wives fables sort of theology. I just can't handle that. I can't handle being ostracized for asking questions and not kowtowing.
     
  5. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    Another thing I've noticed in life is every time I speak up I'm always talking to the exception. I still don't understand how that works.
     
  6. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    In Australia, I'd say it's representative of all but the Catholics and Orthodox.

    @ace of hearts, it sounds like you've encountered mostly poorly formed ministers. Clergy should be able to support people who question and so on.
     
  7. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

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    My hope comes from Jesus.
     
  8. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Mine too.
    But some non Christians are not yet ready to see that.
     
  9. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    What Idea...
    Can obeying the holy Spirit lead to anarchy ? Nope never
    Can folowing Jesus the head abd the ONLY head of HIS body lead to anarchy? Nope.
    The reason your so concerned is of 1. A lack of faith in the power if God to govern his own body.
    And 2. You dont yet see there are two very different bodies .one has Jesus alone as head the other has man at its helm ..
     
  10. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    Wow.. Your not yet under the new covenant ? ....
     
  11. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    The problem with all of this.. It denotes a religious trained mindset that one must work for money 6 days a week seeking thier own mini kingdon upon the earth as if God can in No way provide for they who seek first HIS kingdom ....
     
  12. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Saying that God instructed Solomon to build a temple does not indicate that someone is under the old covenant. It's a factual statement. This "corrupt theology" that you seem to think shows itself in the use of buildings, was initiated by God.
    Jesus worshipped in the temple - and that was one built by a pagan. He also taught and worshipped in synagogues; as did the early church.

    It is neither corrupt, nor wrong, to have buildings where Christians, who ARE the church, can gather for worship.
     
  13. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    Of course he can.
    But what right do you have to imply that working to earn a living is wrong and all true Christians MUST live by faith?
    And in my experience it's not about building a "mini kingdom" but about providing for family, elderly parents, maybe paying for health care, being able to give to charities etc etc.
     
  14. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    After the reign of Constantine it became dangerous to not meet on SUNdays ...he took control too..imposed patterns and rules of tradition that were not there before... Patterns of rule and control that stand to this day
     
  15. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    Think through
    ...re read your own words and really think about what you have said here..
    Your entire view of everything Gods has said has been filtered down to you through a church leadership and what results?

    The words you just posted as quoted..

    You ask what right?
    I would say to you.. What right did paul have to write these words in Full contrast to ypur words..
    " the Just SHALL live by FAITH"
    Or the words .. " without FAITH it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God..."

    How dare he write such things.. Ahh but praise God he Did :)
    Because living by faith ... Which means to take action based upon the absolute truth of all he says .., Not just know about it. Living by faith Frees us from the unbelieving mindset that church tradition chains people in by thier control and monologue.
    There is no other way to live in Christ BUT BY FAITH...
    Otherwise one is no more then an actionless hearer of the word and under the full bondage that begins in self deception .

    The way out of the deception of self and controls of faithless man..
    Is to both believe God and then Do as HE says because we DO believe.
     
  16. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    Actually jesus entered the building s to preach the truth to them and warn them of thier error..
    Saying to them INSIDE the buildings.." Repent" .. And they crucified him for it...
     
  17. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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  18. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    The problem with many house churches is they simply try to propagate a miniterization of the same corrupt leadership heirachial theology..
     
  19. Oldmantook

    Oldmantook Well-Known Member

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    That is true no matter where we happen to meet - whether it be in someone's house or a church building. That is why it is vital to follow Paul's instructions in 1 Corinthians 14:26 which mitigates against hierarchical domination and allows the opportunity for everyone to participate and exercise their gifts in order to edify the body.
     
  20. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    I think it not to do with the day of the week or the time of day or the frequency of meeting..

    Its more about the mindset and tradition and motive.

    Take a wide overview.. (Comnent here aimed at the whole thread) Here is ONE scenario form.but its roots trace back only to manmade origins.

    A group of believers get together on regular basis.. Often instigated by an individual.
    Who has been trained at this or that bible school seminary or other.
    Others join and the numbers increase a bit..
    There is actually no need for the group to all meet in one place on one day.. There are a myriad of options.
    But.. That person has been trained that " This is the way you do it" so here at the beginnings of it we see tradition taking lordship over Jesus himself.

    Then they get a " vision" ...they call it such.
    They will procure a building to meet in.
    There is actually no new testiment command or instruction to do so.. (As is the case with most of mans churchy traditions, they dont have a scriptural origin )
    Then comes the enthusiastic call and coercions for $$$ monies.
    Never mind the fatherless and the widow...we Must have our building ,we Will have our building..
    Then off to the world cap in hand for the loan..
    And thus the borrower has become slave to the lender..
    It all rides along on a wave of carnal enthusiasm.
    Then the funds drop off and pressures come on to meet financial obligations of the money master..
    Then on sunday at 10.05am ,you sing and praise god your under grace not law...your told.. And three songs later at 10:20am.your given a peptalk reminding you of your obligation to obey the LAW of the tithe from a misrepresented verse in Malachi..
    And now everthing has become a contradiction ..

    Now of course in this scenario i used probably a picture of all evangelical charismatic type systems...
    The older established man made systems already have thier huge chapels of stone traditions and how They obtained those is often a far darker story on the backs of the poor or lied to , to get them to buy recited written prayers to get thier passed on relatives out of hell fire... A tradition also with zero scriptural origin . prayers for $profit..
    The protestants then did coercions.. The evangelicals then did it.. The penticostals and charismatics did it...

    Often in this thread people have said you cant make such a broad statement saying the theology of church leadership is corrupt..
    Yet we see this one Form alone of corrupt pattern in how many denominations.. ? All of them .
    And if not tithe... Its what is done with freewill offering..
    How much of it is poured into the upkeep of old dead shells called buildings ... And the poor are sneered at for not attending the buildings then if they do attend are they aided? (Theres always the exception) but they also are coerced by suggestion and implication ..to hand over monies..
    This all is just one single area ...

    Yet it is repeated and perpetuated over and over through generations...
    And why?
    Because the man made church systems makes for itself diciples of the man made church system who then do the same.

    But we were never called to be diciples of the church .
    But Diciples of Jesus...

    Think it through ....step back and take a wider look
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
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