Today's the day, don't get distracted: NY Civil Fraud Judgment due

[rambot]

I couldn't even if I tried lol

I'm not talking about "can"...I'm talking about "permitted".

 

[Ana the Ist]

It's still fraud according to NY law.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say no...no it's not.

It's a kangaroo court.

When you have an AG who ran on "I'll find something, anything to charge Trump with"....then they find a novel interpretation of the law nobody has ever been tried with.

And you have a judge literally determining guilt before any defense is made.

But I don't expect Kevin O'Leary to know much about NY law. After all, he's not a lawyer, nor is he from New York. Or even the US.

But he is a real estate developer and like every other real estate developer and bank involved in real estate loans...nobody can explain what the crime is here.

That is a false quote.

Here's exactly what Governor Hochul said:

“I think that this is really an extraordinary, unusual circumstance that the law-abiding and rule-following New Yorkers who are business people have nothing to worry about, because they’re very different than Donald Trump and his behavior,” Hochul responded. ...​

​

Thanks for proving my point.

What exactly is she reassuring people of?

She won't investigate fraud?

Trump's case is unique?

Do you think any real estate developer looking for a bank loan uses the tax assessors value as the market value of the property? Or do you think literally all of them do what Trump did?

Real question...so answer it or it's gonna show up in the reply.

It's "fascist" now to investigate and punish fraud?

Well it's not as mean as Putin straight up jailing his political opponents and killing them....but we've got several months to go.

 

[A2SG]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say no...no it's not.

That limb is broken, dude.

But hey, don't take my word for it:

452564 2022 People of the State of v People of the State of Decision After Trial 1688 | PDF | Fraud | Finance & Money Management

452564 2022 People of the State of v People of the State of Decision After Trial 1688

www.scribd.com

It's a kangaroo court.

When you have an AG who ran on "I'll find something, anything to charge Trump with"....

You do know what a prosecutor's job is, right?

then they find a novel interpretation of the law nobody has ever been tried with.

Really? What, exactly, was novel about it? I provided Judge Engoron's decision above, show me the "novel interpretation," and relevant case law that supports your contention.

And you have a judge literally determining guilt before any defense is made.

Incorrect. Trump and his lawyers had every opportunity to mount their defense.

But he is a real estate developer and like every other real estate developer and bank involved in real estate loans...nobody can explain what the crime is here.

Judge Engoron can. And did. See above.

Thanks for proving my point.

What, that you attributed a quote to her she did not say? Yeah, I did prove that.

What exactly is she reassuring people of?

She won't investigate fraud?

Trump's case is unique?

Do you think any real estate developer looking for a bank loan uses the tax assessors value as the market value of the property? Or do you think literally all of them do what Trump did?

Real question...so answer it or it's gonna show up in the reply.

I'll let her speak for herself:

“By and large, they are honest people and they’re not trying to hide their assets and they’re following the rules,” she said of the people who own and conduct business in the New York City area.

“And so this judge determined that Donald Trump did not follow the rules."​

Well it's not as mean as Putin straight up jailing his political opponents and killing them....but we've got several months to go.

Yeah, get back to me when that actually happens here, okay?

-- A2SG, though, Trump's legal team is arguing that he should have absolute immunity if Trump, as president, decides to do that, so....

 

[Ana the Ist]

That limb is broken, dude.

But hey, don't take my word for it:

452564 2022 People of the State of v People of the State of Decision After Trial 1688 | PDF | Fraud | Finance & Money Management

452564 2022 People of the State of v People of the State of Decision After Trial 1688

www.scribd.com

You do know what a prosecutor's job is, right?


Really? What, exactly, was novel about it?

It's never been used on any real estate developer, ever, in NY or anywhere else....ever.

No one has ever accused any real estate developer of fraud for not using a tax assessment as a market value in loan creation.

Incorrect. Trump and his lawyers had every opportunity to mount their defense.

Verdict was given at the beginning of the trial. What defense could they possibly mount?

Judge Engoron can. And did.

And he's not biased at all, I'm sure lol.

I love when he dismissed the fact that the banks explained everything was normal business to them and in their estimation, no fraud occurred and they would gladly do business with Trump again.

I'll let her speak for herself:

Nope...just tell me what she's saying, because I have a brain, and it makes no sense...

Why is she making this statement?

Just start there....use your thinking parts and tell me why is she making the statement?

It sounds like she's reassuring businesses....but that doesn't make any sense....unless they're all doing the same thing Trump does.

 

[rambot]

As I understand that.
He had a valuation for tax purposes and he had a valuation for bank loans.

These two valuations were not the same.


And somehow this is not fraud or illegal.

 

[evoeth]

Start the Clock! Judgment Entered Against Trump: $454m Owed in 30 Days!

Judgment in Trump civil fraud case officially entered at $464 million

Former President Donald Trump and his company will be hit with an extra $111,000 in interest a day until the judgment is paid.

www.nbcnews.com

Are you a Republican donor? You'd be an incredible fool to donate money in the next 30 days because he will find a way to pay for it with other people's money.

 

[BPPLEE]

It's never been used on any real estate developer, ever, in NY or anywhere else....ever.

No one has ever accused any real estate developer of fraud for not using a tax assessment as a market value in loan creation.




Verdict was given at the beginning of the trial. What defense could they possibly mount?





And he's not biased at all, I'm sure lol.

I love when he dismissed the fact that the banks explained everything was normal business to them and in their estimation, no fraud occurred and they would gladly do business with Trump again.





Nope...just tell me what she's saying, because I have a brain, and it makes no sense...

Why is she making this statement?

Just start there....use your thinking parts and tell me why is she making the statement?

It sounds like she's reassuring businesses....but that doesn't make any sense....unless they're all doing the same thing Trump does.

It’s selective prosecution

 

[A2SG]

It's never been used on any real estate developer, ever, in NY or anywhere else....ever.

No one has ever accused any real estate developer of fraud for not using a tax assessment as a market value in loan creation.

Sorry, but Appraisal fraud is far from unique. It's actually a fairly common form of fraud. Granted, Trump may have taken it to new heights, but that only speaks to the scope of his fraud.

How Does an Appraisal Fraud Function?​

Appraisal fraud is one of the most common forms of mortgage fraud that occurs when the property's value is falsely inflated (or deflated) by an appraiser (or buyer or seller) so that it diverges substantially from the fair market value.​

​

The overstated value gained by appraisal fraud is generally used to:​

• Assist a seller get a better price than the market would have warranted otherwise
• Assist a buyer get financing, as the mortgage amount could be much lower than the home's estimated value
• Assist a homeowner in obtaining the desired refinancing or house equity loan

Verdict was given at the beginning of the trial. What defense could they possibly mount?

Summary judgment was given based on the evidence provided. Trump's team did file an opposition brief to the AG's motion for summary judgment, and filed their own motion for summary judgment in their favor.

So yeah, they did have a chance to mount a defense to that motion before it was ruled on.

And he's not biased at all, I'm sure lol.

If you want to claim bias, you have to show evidence for that bias. Any time, dude.

I love when he dismissed the fact that the banks explained everything was normal business to them and in their estimation, no fraud occurred and they would gladly do business with Trump again.

Hey, just because someone is happy to have been robbed, that doesn't mean the law wasn't broken.

James argued and Engoron ruled that the statute doesn’t require victims, only a finding of wrongdoing.

“Timely and total repayment of loans does not extinguish the harm that false statements inflict on the marketplace,” Engoron wrote in his decision. “Indeed, the common excuse that ‘everybody does it’ is all the more reason to strive for honesty and transparency and to be vigilant in enforcing the rules.”​

Nope...just tell me what she's saying, because I have a brain, and it makes no sense...

Why is she making this statement?

You'd have to ask her. I can quote what she said, but I don't have access to her thoughts or motivations.

All I know for sure is, what she actually said isn't what you claimed she said. You misquoted her.

Just start there....use your thinking parts and tell me why is she making the statement?

I prefer to let her speak for herself. You are, of course, free to pretend to know why she said what she said, but since you failed to quote her correctly, I suspect your opinion may be equally incorrect.

It sounds like she's reassuring businesses....but that doesn't make any sense....unless they're all doing the same thing Trump does.

Is that what she said?

Nope.

-- A2SG, you won't get very far misquoting people to prove some point of yours, ya know.....

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sorry, but Appraisal fraud is far from unique. It's actually a fairly common form of fraud. Granted, Trump may have taken it to new heights, but that only speaks to the scope of his fraud.

How Does an Appraisal Fraud Function?​

Appraisal fraud is one of the most common forms of mortgage fraud that occurs when the property's value is falsely inflated (or deflated) by an appraiser (or buyer or seller) so that it diverges substantially from the fair market value.​

​

The overstated value gained by appraisal fraud is generally used to:​

• Assist a seller get a better price than the market would have warranted otherwise
• Assist a buyer get financing, as the mortgage amount could be much lower than the home's estimated value
• Assist a homeowner in obtaining the desired refinancing or house equity loan

Right...but that's a "fair market value" not a "tax assessment value".

If you want to claim bias, you have to show evidence for that bias.

The AG said she'd prosecute Trump if elected.

Generally speaking, one would need a crime first.

You'd have to ask her. I can quote what she said, but I don't have access to her thoughts or motivations.

All I know for sure is, what she actually said isn't what you claimed she said. You misquoted her.

No I paraphrased her...look it up.

Unless she's the dumbest governor in NY history and you are her target audience....she just told everyone not to worry, they're only pursuing Trump.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Correction: 300%

"But on Tuesday, Mr Weisselberg said the apartment in Trump Tower measured some 10,000 sq feet ( 929sq m) - not 30,000 sq feet (2,787 sq m) suggested by financial records."

-- A2SG, just trying to help....

Just to wrap this up....

Assessed Value: Definition, How It's Calculated, and Example

Assessed value is a value assigned to a home by an assessor and is used to determine the property tax bill. It is often a percentage of fair market value.

www.investopedia.com

• Assessed value is the dollar value assigned to a home or other property for tax purposes.
• It takes into consideration comparable home sales, location, and other factors.
• Assessed value is not the same as fair market value (what the property could sell for) but is often calculated as a percentage of it.
• Some states also tax personal property, such as cars and boats, and assign an assessed value to those as well.

So again....what crime did he commit?

Because this judge and AG went off tax assessment values...which aren't the same as "fair market values".

 

[Ana the Ist]

Sorry, but Appraisal fraud is far from unique. It's actually a fairly common form of fraud. Granted, Trump may have taken it to new heights, but that only speaks to the scope of his fraud.

How Does an Appraisal Fraud Function?​

Appraisal fraud is one of the most common forms of mortgage fraud that occurs when the property's value is falsely inflated (or deflated) by an appraiser (or buyer or seller) so that it diverges substantially from the fair market value.​

​

​

Fair market value.

 

[A2SG]

Right...but that's a "fair market value" not a "tax assessment value".

And that makes Trump's assessments not inflated? Or not deflated, depending on who the forms were intended for?

Face it, falsifying business records is illegal in NY.

The AG said she'd prosecute Trump if elected.

That is what prosecutors do, after all.

Generally speaking, one would need a crime first.

And she found one. Well, more than one, actually.

No I paraphrased her...look it up.

Yeah, and when you paraphrased her, you misrepresented her.

You do seem prone to that, I've noticed. Try better.

Unless she's the dumbest governor in NY history and you are her target audience....she just told everyone not to worry, they're only pursuing Trump.

Again, that isn't what she said.

-- A2SG, maybe you should pay more attention to what she said than what you want her to have said....

 

[A2SG]

Just to wrap this up....

Assessed Value: Definition, How It's Calculated, and Example

Assessed value is a value assigned to a home by an assessor and is used to determine the property tax bill. It is often a percentage of fair market value.

www.investopedia.com

• Assessed value is the dollar value assigned to a home or other property for tax purposes.
• It takes into consideration comparable home sales, location, and other factors.
• Assessed value is not the same as fair market value (what the property could sell for) but is often calculated as a percentage of it.
• Some states also tax personal property, such as cars and boats, and assign an assessed value to those as well.

So again....what crime did he commit?

Because this judge and AG went off tax assessment values...which aren't the same as "fair market values".

Maybe so, but the problem here was Trump's organization used one set of inflated figures for bank records, and a different, deflated set of figures for tax purposes. According to NY law, that's illegal.

But, if you're referring to the valuation of Mar A Lago, fair market values don't apply. The resort cannot be sold at fair market value, due to certain easements Trump procured to get certain tax breaks.

-- A2SG, which is why Trump doesn't pay taxes on what he claims Mar A Lago is worth.....

 

[A2SG]

Fair market value.

Which doesn't apply to Mar A Lago.

-- A2SG, at least he didn't claim the resort was three times larger than it is....so far as I know, anyway....

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I'm not talking about "can"...I'm talking about "permitted".

Who "permits" it, that banks lol?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

As I understand that.
He had a valuation for tax purposes and he had a valuation for bank loans.

These two valuations were not the same.


And somehow this is not fraud or illegal.

This is getting really lame...The STATE determines taxes...BANKS determine loans. Period.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

If the decisions, including amount, terms, and interest rate are based on false information, then it's fraud.

Then the banks provided false information because they and only they determine the amount, terms and interest rates of loans.

 

[A2SG]

This is getting really lame...The STATE determines taxes...BANKS determine loans. Period.

Sure. And in NY, it's illegal to falsify business records.

-- A2SG, so, there's that....

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Sure. And in NY, it's illegal to falsify business records.

-- A2SG, so, there's that....

and yet records are not used to determine taxes or loans...The State and Banks determine that. That is what the case is about.

 

[A2SG]

and yet records are not used to determine taxes or loans...The State and Banks determine that. That is what the case is about.

And they base their determinations on those business forms, which cannot legally be falsified.

Which they were.

Therefore, Trump's organization broke the law.

-- A2SG, I'm sure there are more specific legal issues involved, but that seems a simple enough layman's explanation....