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Featured The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by FineLinen, Jun 24, 2018.

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  1. twin.spin

    twin.spin Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

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  2. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Prof. Keith DeRose The Really Good News
    "..so abundant was God's grace,the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it—the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. In Him we also have been made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will, so that we should be devoted to the extolling of His glorious attributes.."
    The Purpose of God By Vladimir Gelesnoff
    In PAUL'S letters repeated reference is made to God's "purpose" (Rom.8:28; 9:11; Eph.1:11; 3:11; 2 Tim.1:9). In all these scriptures the word is prothesis. Its force may be gathered from the fact that the twelve loaves which were placed on the Tabernacle table before the Lord are styled "loaves of purpose" (Matt.12:4; Mark 2:26; Luke 6:14; Heb.9:2).
    Hence the scriptures which speak of God's prothesis tell us that He has set before Himself a definite aim or object which He is bent on achieving.
    In Eph.3:11, occurs the phrase, "according to the purpose of the eons which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord."
    Note this passage from Jeremiah. What was God's will and purpose? God said “I have caused to cleave” That word is הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi. It is in the perfect or completed sense. God’s will, expressly stated, for the whole house of Israel and Judah, to cling to God as a belt clings to a man’s waist. It was done, finished, completed, in God’s sight, and, according to some arguments, nothing man can do will cause God’s will to not be done. But they, Israel and Judah, would not hear and obey, their will, vs. God’s will, So God destroyed them, vs. 14.
    …..This passage very much speaks to God’s sovereign will and purpose, and also man’s free will and agency. God stated very clearly what His will was, in terms that cannot be misunderstood. But, because the Israelites and Judeans would not hear, and obey, God destroyed them, instead of them being unto God, “for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory, vs. 10.”

    Jer 13:1 Thus saith the LORD unto me, Go and get thee a linen girdle, and put it upon thy loins, and put it not in water.
    2 So I got a girdle according to the word of the LORD, and put it on my loins.
    3 And the word of the LORD came unto me the second time, saying,
    4 Take the girdle that thou hast got, which is upon thy loins, and arise, go to Euphrates, and hide it there in a hole of the rock.
    5 So I went, and hid it by Euphrates, as the LORD commanded me.
    6 And it came to pass after many days, that the LORD said unto me, Arise, go to Euphrates, and take the girdle from thence, which I commanded thee to hide there.
    7 Then I went to Euphrates, and digged, and took the girdle from the place where I had hid it: and, behold, the girdle was marred, it was profitable for nothing.
    8 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
    9 Thus saith the LORD, After this manner will I mar the pride of Judah, and the great pride of Jerusalem.
    10 This evil people, which refuse to hear my words, which walk in the imagination of their heart, and walk after other gods, to serve them, and to worship them, shall even be as this girdle, which is good for nothing.
    11 For as the girdle cleaveth to the loins of a man, so have I caused to cleave [הדבקתי/ha’dabaq’thi] unto me the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah, saith the LORD; that they might be unto me for a people, and for a name, and for a praise, and for a glory: but they would not hear.

    · · ·
    14 And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
    Note, verse 14, God said He will NOT have pity, will NOT spare, and will NOT have mercy but destroy them. Although God stated in the most emphatic way He could what His will and purpose was.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018
  3. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Premise 1: God desires all be saved.... 1 Timothy 2:4: "[God] who desires(THELO) all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

    Premise 2: God does all He desires(THELO, Strongs #2709) (Isa.55:11; Psa.115:3; 135:6).

    Conclusion: All will be saved

    https://www.christianforums.com/thr...oes-all-he-desires-all-will-be-saved.8056763/



    If He didn't have pity - as regards the particular judgment in view - of the context - and killed them, how does that address what happens to them postmortem? Does He say
    that after He destroys/kills them that He will - never - have mercy on them in the afterlife also? Or is the passage completely silent about any postmortem consequences?
    Does the context even mention "hell"? No. Compare this a few chapters later from the same book & author:

    Jeremiah 21:7
    "Then afterwards," declares the LORD, "I will give over Zedekiah king of Judah and his servants and the people, even those who survive in this city from the pestilence, the
    sword and the famine, into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of their foes and into the hand of those who seek their lives; and he will strike
    them down with the edge of the sword. He will not spare them nor have pity nor compassion."

    Which proves the "not sparing" & not "having pity" is related to this life only and the particular judgement in view - in the context - i.e. being killed..."he will strike
    them down with the edge of the sword". It has nothing to do with anything beyond this life, or postmortem consequences.

    Show me where that quote or context says after He destroyed them, i.e. killed their body, that He would also never have mercy on their - souls - postmortem. If you can't do
    that, then as far as opposing universalism your verse fails with all the other lame attempts to oppose universalism & is discarded into the trash can of failed attempts to oppose universalism.

    Nowhere in Scripture does it say those destroyed (i.e. killed) cannot be saved postmortem. Or that they cannot receive correction and mercy postmortem. 1 Cor.5:4-5 says
    destruction is for salvation. And Mt.1:21 + 2:6; Rom.11:26; Isa.45:21-25 all Israel shall be saved.

    Many scriptures show God's punishments in this life are corrective & there's nothing in the Bible saying that He suddenly changes His ways in that regard postmortem.

    Hab.1:12 O LORD my God, my Holy One, you who are eternal--surely you do not plan to wipe us out? O LORD, our Rock, you have sent these Babylonians to correct us, to punish us
    for our many sins.

    Because I have sinned against him, I will bear the LORD’s wrath, until he pleads my case and upholds my cause. He will bring me out into the light;I will see his righteousness. (Micah 7:9)

    Isaiah 12:1
    Then you will say on that day, "I will give thanks to You, O LORD; For although You were angry with me, Your anger is turned away, And You comfort me.

    Hosea 6:1
    "Come, let us return to the LORD. For He has torn us, but He will heal us; He has wounded us, but He will bandage us.

    Isa.57:17 “Because of the iniquity of his unjust gain I was angry and struck him;
    I hid My face and was angry, And he went on turning away, in the way of his heart.

    18“I have seen his ways, but I will heal him;
    I will lead him and restore comfort to him and to his mourners,

    Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

    It seems they will "come to Him" & "be ashamed" of themselves:

    Isa.45:24 The people will declare, "The LORD is the source of all my righteousness and strength." And all who were angry with him will come to him and be ashamed.

    And he that "comes to Him" shall find rest & He shall not cast out (Mt.11:28; Jn.6:37).

    Isa.45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

    https://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2018
  4. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    My brother in arms: I know this will not shock you, but the Master of reconciliation has zero problems with death! He not only overcame it, He emptied a few tombs in the process. But, there is more: this Man from the Glory actually preached to the "disobedient" dead from the days of Noah. And, there is more still: The Master of Life, the One who holds the keys of death and death's domain, brought them to where Abba dwells in spiritual life. I like Him very much!
     
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  5. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Why does the Saviour of all mankind preach to the dead?

    "For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."

    "For it is with this end in view that the Good News was proclaimed even to some who were dead, that they may be judged, as all mankind will be judged, in the body, but may be living a godly life in the spirit."

    Robertson Word Pictures Of The New Testament -A. T. Robertson

    Philippians 2:10

    "That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow (ina en twi onomati Ihsou pan gonu kampshi).

    First aorist active subjunctive of kamptw, old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ina.

    Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven. This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22; Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13.

    Under the earth (kataxtoniwn).

    Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead.
    Here only in the N.T."
     
  6. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    <FineL>My brother in arms: I know this will not shock you, but the Master of reconciliation has zero problems with death! He not only overcame it, He emptied a few tombs in the process. But, there is more: this Man from the Glory actually preached to the "disobedient" dead from the days of Noah. And, there is more still: The Master of Life, the One who holds the keys of death and death's domain, brought them to where Abba dwells in spiritual life. I like Him very much!<end>

    How many of those myriads of "disobedient dead" that the man from Glory preached to in Noah's day were saved? His preaching wasn't very productive was it?
     
  7. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    <FineL>Why does the Saviour of all mankind preach to the dead?
    "For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."
    "For it is with this end in view that the Good News was proclaimed even to some who were dead, that they may be judged, as all mankind will be judged, in the body, but may be living a godly life in the spirit."
    Robertson Word Pictures Of The New Testament -A. T. Robertson
    Philippians 2:10
    "That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow (ina en twi onomati Ihsou pan gonu kampshi).
    First aorist active subjunctive of kamptw, old verb, to bend, to bow, in purpose clause with ina.
    Not perfunctory genuflections whenever the name of Jesus is mentioned, but universal acknowledgment of the majesty and power of Jesus who carries his human name and nature to heaven. This universal homage to Jesus is seen in Romans 8:22; Ephesians 1:20-22 and in particular Revelation 5:13.
    Under the earth (kataxtoniwn).
    Homeric adjective for departed souls, subterranean, simply the dead. Here only in the N.T."<end>
    Here you quote Robertson as authoritative. Do you also agree with his commentary on Matt 25:46?

    A.T. Robertson Matthew 25:46
    Eternal punishment (kolasin aiōnion). The word kolasin comes from kolazō, to mutilate or prune. Hence those who cling to the larger hope use this phrase to mean age-long pruning that ultimately leads to salvation of the goats, as disciplinary rather than penal. There is such a distinction as Aristotle pointed out between mōria (vengeance) and kolasis. But the same adjective aiōnios is used with kolasin and zōēn. If by etymology we limit the scope of kolasin, we may likewise have only age-long zōēn. There is not the slightest indication in the words of Jesus here that the punishment is not coeval with the life. We can leave all this to the King himself who is the Judge. The difficulty to one’s mind about conditional chastisement is to think how a life of sin in hell can be changed into a life of love and obedience. The word aiōnios (from aiōn, age, aevum, aei) means either without beginning or without end or both. It comes as near to the idea of eternal as the Greek can put it in one word. It is a difficult idea to put into language. Sometimes we have “ages of ages” (aiōnes tōn aiōnōn).
     
  8. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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  9. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Evidently that is not true:

    I think it(aidios) was a superior word to use relative to the ambiguous aion & aionios, if God was a believer in endless punishment. Moreover, as opposed to aion and aionios (which are often used of finite duration), God had a number of other words & expressions available that would also have better served to express endless punishment, if Love Omnipotent were a believer of such. But He never uses such of eschatological punishment. So the reasonable conclusion is that Love Omnipotent rejected using such words and expressions of a final destiny of endless punishment because He knew better & He rejected the notion that anyone will endure endless punishment. Those words & expresssions are:

    1. no end (Lk.1:33)...this expression is used of God's kingdom having "no end". It is never used of anyone's torments or punishment. We never read of anyone receiving torments that will have "no end". This unambiguous phrase, "no end", would have been a superior choice to the ambiguous words aion & aionion, if Love Omnipotent had a belief in endless torments or annihilation. But He rejected its use in expressing such a fate.

    2. endless (1 Tim.1:4)...Again if Love Omnipotent believed in endless torments, why didn't He use this word to express it, instead of the ambiguous aion & aionion, which often refer to finite durations in ancient Greek usage?

    3. never (Mt.7:23, etc)...this word appears to occur 16 times in the NT & it seems that it never means anything except "never". It is used of "love never fails" (1 Cor.13:8). It also occurs in Mt.7:23 where Jesus says "I never knew you; depart you from Me, those working lawlessness." Which is such an incredibly lame remark, if Love Omnipotent believed in endless torments. If He believed that such an unspeakably horrific final destiny awaits the wicked, including those He was referring to in Mt.7:23, why didn't He make it clear by telling them that they would "never" be saved and/or He would "never" know them? Would that not have been clear & unambiguous, unlike the words He spoke, & unlike the ambiguous aion & aionios, which often refer to finite duration in ancient Koine Greek? OTOH consider re the use of the word "never":

    "Philo saith, “The punishment of the wicked person is, ζην αποθανοντα αει, to live for ever dying, and to be for ever in pains, and griefs, and calamities that never cease..." Mark 9 Benson Commentary

    Yet Scripture - never - uses such language. Moreover, it speaks of death being abolished, not being "for ever".

    4. eternal (Rom.1:16; Jude 1:6)...this word, AIDIOS, is used of God's "eternal" power & "eternal" chains that bind until the day of judgement. It is never used of anyone's final destiny. We never read of anyone being tormented for eternal ages. We never read of anyone suffering eternal (AIDIOS) punishment. If Jude believed in endless punishment, he had the perfect opportunity at Jude 1:6 by simply adding that the angels would suffer the judgement of eternal (AIDIOS) punishment or torments. Instead of warning his readers of such a horrificly monstrous fate, as he should have been morally obligated to do if it were a real possibility, instead he conveys the relatively utterly lame & insignificant info that these angelic beings will be kept in chains until judgement day. OTOH, consider:

    "Instead of saying with Philo and Josephus, thanaton athanaton, deathless or immortal death; eirgmon aidion, eternal imprisonment; aidion timorion, eternal torment; and thanaton ateleuteton, interminable death, he [Jesus] used aionion kolasin..." http://www.tentmaker.org/books/prevailing/upd3.html

    "Nyssa defined the vision of God promised there as "life without end, eternal incorruption, undying beatitude [ten ateleuteton zoen, ten aidion aphtharsian , ten athanaton makarioteta]." ("Christianity and Classical Culture: The Metamorphosis of Natural Theology in ..." By Jaroslav Pelikan, p.165 @): https://books.google.ca/books?id=3V...5DMMQ6AEIODAE#v=onepage&q=ateleuteton&f=false

    5. unfading (1 Pet.1:4; 5:4)...Peter uses this word of an endless inheritance reserved in heaven & a crown of glory. It is never used of the endless pain, punishment or torments that anyone will receive. Can it be denied that this would have been a superior word (over aion & aionios) to use to express such a horrific destiny if Love Omnipotent actually had such in store for anyone? Wouldn't He want to express warnings about it in the clearest ways possible?

    6. found no place for repentance (Heb.12:17)...is used in Heb.12:17 of the loss of a finite earthly blessing..."he found no place of repentance, although having earnestly sought it with tears". Never is it used regarding those in Gehenna, Hades, the lake of fire, or eschatological punishment. Never do we read of those cast into any "hell" that they will not (or never) find a place of repentance, even though they earnestly seek it with tears. God was quite capable of expressing such in His Holy Scriptures. But rather than give such a warning, as Love Omnipotent should have if such an unbelievably horrific future awaited anyone, instead we are told of the relatively lame loss of a finite earthly blessing. Such a waste of words if endless punishment were really true.

    7. In Mt.18:6 is the lame warning of a punishment which is compared to mere drowning, which is nothing compared to being kept alive for the sole purpose of being tortured for all the "endless" ages of eternity that have "no end" & "never" cease. Jesus says it is "better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea". OTOH, if He had been a believer in endless punishment, He could have expressed that by saying it is better for them to have never lived, never been conceived, or that their parents had never known (had sex with) one another. Compare this anti-biblical Jewish view that the Lord Jesus Christ, Love Omnipotent, rejected:

    "To every individual is apportioned two shares, one in hell and one in paradise. At death, however, the righteous man's portion in hell is exchanged, so that he has two in heaven, while the reverse is true in the case of sinners (Ḥag. 15a). Hence it would have been better for the latter not to have lived at all (Yeb. 63b)." http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/6558-gehenna

    I am considering which of two dozen other ancient Koine Greek words & expressions to add to the above list.

    Examples of aionios as a finite duration in Koine Greek:

    https://www.christianforums.com/threads/two-questions.8069145/page-4#post-72837159
     
  10. needhugs

    needhugs Flibbertyjibbet

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    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
  11. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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  12. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Love Omnipotent indeed! Aidios is indeed a superior word. Words are remarkable expressions of colour, sometimes moving in the direction of poikilos (but far short). I know this: there are fathers in various degrees of calibre, some with zero calibre. We are looking away to the Father of all fathers whose glorious Presence draws us deeply into His grasp. I trust Him who only does all things well! In the final glorious chapter of the Restitution of all things, spoken from the earliest ages through the prophets, the Poikilos Father will demonstrate He is the many-coloured God of Glory drawing His sheep & goats back to the Fold!

    "The whole of created life shall be delivered/set free/amancipated.."
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
  13. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Universalism: A Historical Survey

    By Richard Bauckham (Professor Of N.T. Studies)

    Universalism: a historical survey by Richard Bauckham

    "..so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it—the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. In Him we also have been made heirs, having been chosen beforehand in accordance with the intention of Him whose might carries out in everything the design of His own will, so that we should be devoted to the extolling of His glorious attributes.."
     
  14. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    J. Preston Eby

    But God only restrains until He can save! That is precisely why Jesus, after His death and resurrection, went to PREACH to these spirits in prison, the spirits of the men who had been disobedient in the days of Noah. To them He carried the word of reconciliation, showing not only that Christ had died for their sins, but that He was risen for their justification.

    If perchance our minds are numbed with the wonder of such a thought, let us consider the record of this great event from Weymouth's translation.

    "Christ also once for all died for sins, the innocent One for the guilty many, in order to bring us to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit, BY WHICH HE ALSO WENT AND P-R-E-A-C-H-E-D TO THE SPIRITS THAT WERE IN PRISON, who in former times had been disobedient, when God's long-suffering patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons — eight in number — were brought safely through the water" (I Pet. 3:18-20).

    Despite the crafty and deceptive efforts of some to twist and explain away the plain meaning of this passage, it reveals that Jesus, after His death and resurrection, went and preached, not to men in the flesh, but to SPIRITS in prison; not to angels, not to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob or any of the other Old Testament saints, but to those men who had been DISOBEDIENT to the preaching of Noah in the days preceding the flood! And what did He preach to these long-departed spirits?

    Well, I Peter 4:6 certainly answers this question! The passage is only a few verses further on from the one under consideration, and as Peter continues speaking of the same subject we are informed, "For this cause was the Gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit..."

    The message is clear — though these were dead so far as their flesh bodies were concerned, and lived on only in the spirit, but not in the flesh, THE GOSPEL WAS PREACHED UNTO THEM that they might be judged, or dealt with, the same as men who were alive in the flesh. Please notice, precious friend of mine, it was not doom or gloom or judgment or eternal damnation that was preached to these, but THE GOSPEL, the GOOD NEWS WHICH IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION, was PREACHED even to these spirits in prison, the disobedient ones!

    It is written in the plainest of plain language.

    But there are some people who will not understand plain speech.They do not believe that Christ went down into hell to preach the gospel to dis-embodied spirits of wicked and rebellious men; they think He went somewhere down in the heart of the earth to rescue Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the Old Testament righteous people out of a place called Paradise and take them up to heaven.

    He may have done that, but there is not one shred of evidence for it anywhere in the pages of God's wonderful Book. The Bible nowhere says that. He went down into the lowest hell, and He was there on business!

    Wherever He went He did business for God. He went there to begin His new age deliverance ministry among a group of spirits that had been imprisoned there for two thousand three hundred and fifty years. He went and preached to the disobedient in the days of Noah, who were so bad that God could not wait for them to die, and another generation to arise, but in order to re-establish some order on the earth He had to sweep them all off the earth into hell. The fact that they remained there so long indicates the depth of their wickedness.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
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  15. needhugs

    needhugs Flibbertyjibbet

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    Fine Linen... what do those cross things mean under my avatar, i noticed you sent me some :) thank you, i just don't know what it is lol
     
  16. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    My friend, I have no idea. I did send you all my blessing points to stay broke/ bankrupt. F.L. is glad to see you again.

    "The whole of created life shall be delivered/set free.."
     
  17. needhugs

    needhugs Flibbertyjibbet

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    Hi FL :) thank you for the blessings :) i don't know much about how to work this forum lol

    I just took a little break, because i know i'm out of the terror of hellfire, but it's easily triggered!

    I don't like what seems to be HATRED between universalists and mainstreamers... it freaks me out...

    universalists seem to be big targets of the devil... because universalism makes God appear to be just as GOOD as He actually IS... and more people will come to that sort of doctrine, out of atheism, out of the world... to know the love of The Most Beautiful Being Ever (my nickname for Him haha)

    I hear universalists being super weird and foolish by not believing in the trinity... and I hear them say that people who can believe in never ending torture, without going insane, are narcissists and sociopaths...

    don't like all that kind of stuff...

    God is love, so should we be... but as you probably know, we get shunned out of the church... for not believing God is monsterous!

    this is a crazy situation.

    Martin Zender says that the actual body of Christ is probably about 5000 of us world wide... and i find that depressing..

    maybe universalism is the narrow gate, even tho it seems to be a contradiction in terms haha

    i saw the thumbnail for a video on youtube, called: 'why billy graham is roasting in hell' and i thought that it seems like they are ENJOYING that thought... who would enjoy that thought of someone roasting in hell???

    i just don't understand.
     
  18. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You know Needhugs; few of us if any know the deepest desire of the Father (Abba). I know only this: the Will of all wills prevails with a capital P!

    It is Sunday morning in some part of the earth today. Let us sing together a hymn written a few years ago by Wm. Fullerton.

    I Cannot Tell

     
  19. needhugs

    needhugs Flibbertyjibbet

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    lovely hymm... takes me back :)

    i know we don't know, and all see thru a glass darkly.

    today i'm feeling soooo good, as Jesus came to my rescue... i had a weird feeling in me, that good and evil were separating in my being... of course on the good side, there was only our Blessed Trinity, and on the otherside... well, EVERYTHING ELSE lol

    but, i think that good and evil has been intermingled in us... recall that scripture 'there is a way that seems good in a man's eyes, but it leads to destruction'... something like that... i have noticed it in myself.. what i thought was self esteem was pride, that's a good example right there... i have prayed hard to get that separated, the good and evil

    and now it has been, and i can rest in Him, and surrender all... knowing that only His goodness is there to catch me.

    Proverbs 16:25
    There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
  20. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,672
    Non-Denom
    Dear Needhugs: You can indeed rest in Him, and His goodness will not only catch you, it will surely fill you up to the full stature of Christ Jesus. It will be in stages of glory, not one single experience, but in the progressive tense of "be being"!

    There is a word regarding those who arise above what life brings them.>>>>>>>>>

    "These are they who made their way through great distress....."

    You, precious lady, are going to make it through & be a strength to others who need to know there is hope beyond their suffering!
     
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