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Featured The Restitution Of All Things A.K.A. Universalism

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by FineLinen, Jun 24, 2018.

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  1. Der Alter

    Der Alter This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

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    Hello all... i see the word eternal is out for another kick at the can...
    Hillsage... where can i get those teachings? is there an email? a snail mail addy, that i can write to?
    thanks, and have fun with the word 'eternal'... i grow weary of that silly argument.
    I like what Nehemia Gordon said about the word... (and he doesn't even have a dog in the race lol) ...that in the hebrew it was 'olam' and it meant 'universe' or 'as long as the universe will last'... and he assumed that that was 'eternal'... but we all know it's not, coz there will be a new heavens and a new earth.
    ..
    Thirty six [36] OT verses which define the word “olam.” as eternal.
    Exodus 3:15
    (15) And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever,[עולם/olam] and this is my memorial unto all generations.
    In this vs. “name olam” is paired with “unto all generations.” “Age(s),”a finite period, does not equate to “unto all generations,”“for ever” does.
    Psalms 21:4
    (4) He asked life of thee, and thou gavest it him, even length of days for ever [עולם/olam] and ever.[עד/ad]
    In this vs. “olam” is paired with “length of days”. “Age(s),” a finite period, does not equate to length of days, “for ever and ever” does.
    Psalms 45:17
    (17) I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever [עולם/olam] and ever:[עד/ad]
    In this vs. “olam” is paired with “in all generations,” “Age(s),” a finite period, does not equate to “in all generations”, “for ever and ever” does.
    Psa 33:11
    (11) The counsel of the LORD standeth for ever, [ עולם] the thoughts of his heart to all generations.
    In this vs. “standeth olam” is paired with “to all generations,”“age(s),” a finite period, does not equate to “to all generations,” “for ever” does.
    Psa 146:10 The LORD will reign for ever, [עולם/olam] Thy God, O Zion, unto all generations. Hallelujah.[“ all generations” also Ps 100:5, 106:31]
    In this vs. “reign olam” is paired with “unto all generations,”“age(s),” a finite period, does not equate to “to all generations,” “for ever” does.
    Psa 37:28
    (28) For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: [ עולם/olam] but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
    In this vs. “preserved olam” is contrasted with “the wicked shall be cut off,””age(s),”a finite period, is not opposite of “the wicked shall be cut off,” “for ever” is.
    Ecc 3:14
    (14) I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever:[ עולם] nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.
    In this vs. עולם/olam is equated with. “nothing can be added or taken away” from God's acts. “Age(s),“a finite period, does not equate with “nothing can be added or taken away” from God's acts, “for ever” does.
    Isa 51:6
    (6) Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, [ עולם] and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
    In this vs. “salvation olam” is equated with “shall not be abolished”, “age(s),” a finite period, is not opposite of “shall not be abolished,” “forever” is.
    Isa 51:8
    (8) For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, [ עולם] and my salvation from generation to generation.
    In this vs. “righteousness olam” is paired with “from generation to generation” “age(s),”a finite period, does not equate to “from generation to generation.” “for ever” does.
    Dan 7:14
    (14) He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting [ עולם] dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.
    In this vs. “olam dominion” is equated with “will not pass away” and “never be destroyed.” “Age(s),” a finite period, does not equate to “will not pass away,””never be destroyed”, “everlasting dominion” does.
    Jer 23:40
    (40) I will bring on you everlasting disgrace [ עולם]—everlasting shame [ עולם] that will not be forgotten."
    In this vs. “olam disgrace and shame” is paired with “will not be forgotten.” “age(s) a finite period, does not equate to “will not be forgotten,””everlasting” does.
    Jer 50:5
    (5) They will ask the way to Zion and turn their faces toward it. They will come and bind themselves to the LORD in an everlasting [ עולם] covenant that will not be forgotten.
    In this vs. “olam covenant” is paired with “will not be forgotten,””age(s),” a finite period, does not equate to “will not be forgotten,” ”everlasting” does.
    Exo 27:21
    (21) In the tabernacle of the congregation without the vail, which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall order it from evening to morning before the LORD: it shall be a statute for ever [עולם/olam] unto their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.
    In this verse עולם/olam is paired with “unto their generations.” “Age(s)” does not equate to “unto their generations,” “for ever” does.
    Exo 30:21
    (21) So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not: and it shall be a statute for ever [עולם/olam] to them, even to him and to his seed throughout their generations.
    [“throughout their generations “ also Lev 10:9, 17:7, 23:14, 23:21, 23:41, Num 10:8, 15:15, 18:23, Psa 145;13, Ex 40:15, Lev 7:36][/indent]
    In this verse “statute עולם/olam” is paired with “die not” and “throughout their generations.” “Ages” does not equate to “die not” and “throughout their. Generations,” “forever” does.

    Psa 45:17
    (17) I will make thy name to be remembered in all generations: therefore shall the people praise thee for ever [עולם/olam] and ever.[ עד/ad][“in all generations” also Ps 100:5, 106:31]
    .
    In this verse עולם/olam and . עד/ad are paired with “in all generations.” “Age(s)” does not equate to “in all generations,” “for ever and ever” does.
    Psa 148:6
    (6) He hath also stablished them for ever [עולם/olam] and ever:[ עד/ad] he hath made a decree which shall not pass.
    In this verse עולם/olam and עד/ad are paired with “shall not pass.” “Age(s)” does not equate to “shall not pass.” “forever and ever” does.
    Isa 55:13
    (13) Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting [ עולם/olam] sign that shall not be cut off.
    In this verse “ עולם/olam sign” is paired with ”shall not be cut off.” “Age(s)” does not equate to “shall not be cut off.” “everlasting does.
    [26]Isa 56:5
    (5) Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting [ עולם/olam] name, that shall not be cut off.
    In this verse “ עולם/olam name” is paired with ”shall not be cut off.” “Age(s)” does not equate to “shall not be cut off.” “everlasting” does.
    Jer 32:40
    (40) And I will make an everlasting “[עולם/olam] covenant with them, that I will not turn away from them, to do them good; but I will put my fear in their hearts, that they shall not depart from me.
    In this verse “עולם/olam covenant” is paired with “I will not turn away” and ”they shall not depart from me.” “Age(s)” does not equate to “I will not turn away” and “they shall not depart from me.” “everlasting” does.
    Jer 50:5
    (5) They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in a perpetual [עולם/olam] covenant that shall not be forgotten.
    In this verse “עולם/olam covenant” is paired with ”shall not be forgotten” “Age(s)” does not equate to “shall not be forgotten.” “perpetual covenant” does.
    Lam 5:19
    (19) Thou, O LORD, remainest for ever; “[עולם/olam] thy throne from generation to generation.
    In this verse “עולם/olam” is paired with “from generation to generation.” “Age(s) does not equate to “from generation to generation”, “for ever” does.
    Dan 4:3
    (3)(3:33) How great are His signs! and how mighty are His wonders! His kingdom is an everlasting [עלם/alam] kingdom, and His dominion is from generation to generation.[עם־דר ודר/am-dor w’dor]
    In this verse [עלם/alam] is paired with “from generation to generation.” “Age(s) does not equate to “from generation to generation”, “for ever” does.
    Jer 10:10-11
    (10) But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal [עלם/alam] King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath.

    (11) "Tell them this: 'These gods, who did not make the heavens and the earth, will perish from the earth and from under the heavens.'"
    In this passage living God, eternal [עלם/alam] King has been contrasted with false gods which perish.

     
  2. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    OLAM occurs in verse 31 here:

    Lamentations 3:22 and 3:31-33, The steadfast love of the Lord NEVER ceases, his mercies NEVER come to an end. . . .
    Lam.3:31 For the Lord will NOT cast off FOR EVER:
    32 For if He causes grief, Then He will have compassion According to His abundant lovingkindness. 33 For He does not afflict willingly Or grieve the SONS OF MEN.…

    "olam: long duration, antiquity, futurity":
    http://biblehub.com/hebrew/5769.htm

    100 Scriptural Proofs That Jesus Christ Will Save All Mankind
    http://www.tentmaker.org/books/ScripturalProofs.html
     
  3. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    To use your type of reasoning, in Psa.77:5 olam/aionia is opposite "old[qedem]/ancient=744/Gk. Old & ancient are not eternal, but finite. Therefore Olam/aionia are defined/described as finite.

    Similarly in Deut.32:7 olam/aion is opposite generations of generations past which are finite. So olam/aion are finite.

    Likewise in Isa.51:9 olam is opposite "of old" which is finite. And aion is opposite the "early time"/"days" past, which is finite.



    I have considered the days of old, the years of ancient times. (Psa.77:5)
    I have reckoned the days of old,[qedem/6924] The years of the ages.[owlam im] (Psa.77:5)
    I considered the days of old, and remembered ancient years.[αἰώνια/166] (Psa.77:5, LXX, Brenton)

    Deuteronomy 32:7
    "Remember the days of old,[owlam] Consider the years of all generations. Ask your father, and he will inform you, Your elders, and they will tell you.
    Remember the days of old,[αἰῶνος/165] consider the years for past ages: ask thy father, and he shall relate to thee, thine elders, and they shall tell thee. (Dt.32:7, LXX, Brenton)

    Isaiah 51:9
    Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD; Awake as in the days of old,[qedem] the generations of long ago[owlam-im]. Was it not You who cut Rahab in pieces, Who pierced the dragon?
    Awake, awake, O Jerusalem, and put on the strength of thine arm; awake as in the early time, as the ancient[αἰῶνος/165] generation. (Isa.51:9, LXX, Brenton)

    ἐξεγείρου ἐξεγείρου Ιερουσαλημ καὶ ἔνδυσαι τὴν ἰσχὺν τοῦ βραχίονός σου ἐξεγείρου ὡς ἐν ἀρχῇ ἡμέρας ὡς γενεὰαἰῶνος οὐ σὺ εἶ

    "...as in [the] beginning of days[2250], as a generation of an eon[165]" (Isa.51:9b, The Apostolic Bible Polygot: Greek English Intelinear [of the LXX], p.968).
     
  4. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What Greek or Hebrew authority tells you the Bible defines words? What degrees in Hebrew or Greek do you have?

    "I have never seen ANY word in the New Testament defined by some other word. The writers simply used the words; they didn't define them."

    "Association with other words does NOT define a word."

    As to your proficiency in Greek, remember this:

    Here is a response to your statement from a guy who knows some Greek:

    "This is simply false, as ANYONE who has even a smattering of Greek knows. It is simply false that βασιλει would need to be in the genitive case to be correctly translated as "to the king of the ages." No, "των αιωνιον" must be in the genitive to mean "of the ages" and it is."

    Have you ever had even one lesson in Koine Greek?
     
  5. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Butch replied to Der Alter:


    OLAM pretty much corresponds with AIONIOS in these verses:

    Evidently the Greek Old Testament (LXX, Septuagint) uses aionios of finite duration:

    I have considered the days of old, the years of ancient(aionios) times. (Psa.77:5)
    Don’t move the ancient(aionios) boundary stone, which your fathers have set up. (Prov.22:28)
    Don’t move the ancient(aionios) boundary stone. Don’t encroach on the fields of the fatherless: (Prov.23:10)
    Those from among you will rebuild the ancient(aionios) ruins; You will raise up the age-old(aionios) foundations;... (Isa 58:12a)
    Thus says the Lord Yahweh: Because the enemy has said against you, Aha! and, The ancient(aionios) high places are ours in possession; (Ezek.36:2)
    Because of thy having an enmity age-during(aionios)... (Ezek.35:5a)
    They will rebuild the perpetual(aionios) ruins and restore the places that were desolate; (Isa.61:4a)
    I went down to the bottoms of the mountains. The earth barred me in forever(aionios): yet have you brought up my life from the pit, Yahweh my God. (Jonah 2:6)
    He beat back His foes; He gave them lasting(aionios) shame. (Psa.78:66)
    Will you keep the old(aionios) way, which wicked men have trodden (Job 22:15)
    Will it make an agreement with you for you to take it as your slave for life(aionios)? (Job 41:4)
    ’Will you not fear me?" says The Lord "will you not be cautious in front of my face? The One who appointed the sand to be the boundary to the sea, by perpetual(aionios)
    decree, that it will not cross over though it will be agitated it is not able and though the waves resound within her yet she will not overstep it. (Jer.5:22)
    Their land will be an object of horror and of lasting(aionios) scorn; all who pass by will be appalled and will shake their heads. (Jer.18:16)
    Behold I will send, and take all the kindreds of the north, saith the Lord, and Nabuchodonosor the king of Babylon my servant: and I will bring them against this land,
    and against the inhabitants thereof, and against all the nations that are round about it: and I will destroy them, and make them an astonishment and a hissing, and
    perpetual(aionios) desolations. (Jer.25:9)
    And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity,
    and the land of the Chaldeans; and I will make it perpetual(aionios) desolations. (Jer.25:12)
    In their heat I will make their feasts, and I will make them drunken, that they may rejoice, and sleep a perpetual(aionios) sleep, and not wake, saith the LORD. (Jer.51:39)
    When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old(aionios),
    with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living; (Ezek.26:20)
    I will make you a perpetual(aionios) desolation, and your cities shall not be inhabited; and you shall know that I am Yahweh. (Ezek.35:9)
    From those sleeping in the soil of the ground many shall awake, these to eonian(aionios) life and these to reproach for eonian(aionios) repulsion. (Daniel 12:2)
    Thus says Yahweh, “Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old(aionios) paths, ‘Where is the good way?’ and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls.
    But they said, ‘We will not walk in it.’ (Jer.6:16)
    For my people have forgotten me, they have burned incense to false gods; and they have been made to stumble in their ways, in the ancient(aionios) paths, to walk in byways,
    in a way not built up; (Jer.18:15)
    Then he remembered the days of old(aionios), Moses and his people, saying, Where is he who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock?
    where is he who put his holy Spirit in the midst of them? (Isa.63:11)


    “Don’t be afraid; for you shall not be ashamed: neither be confounded; for you shall not be disappointed: for you shall forget the shame of your youth(aionios);
    and the reproach of your widowhood you shall remember no more. (Isa 54:4)
     
  6. ClementofA

    ClementofA Well-Known Member Supporter

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    A finite eon, age or ages is perfectly harmonious with generations.

    Your translation misrepresents the Hebrew. There's no "all" in the Hebrew text, not that it would matter, since even that would not say 'throughout all' generations.
    Even yours says only "unto", not 'throughout'.

    Young's Literal Translation
    this is My name -- to the age, and this My memorial, to generation -- generation.

    This is My name for the eon, and this the remembrance of Me for generation after generation. (CLV)

    Contrary to your opinion, aion is defined (as lexicons agree), as a finite duration, age, eon, epoch. And Scripture proves it:

    "Consider the N. T. use of aion. Does “eternity” make any sense in the following passages? To make my point unmistakable, I have translated the Greek word aion with the English word “eternity.”

    ¨ What will be the sign…of the end of the eternity (Mt. 24:3)?

    ¨ I am with you…to the end of the eternity (Mt. 28:20).

    ¨ The sons of this eternity are more shrewd (Lu. 16:8).

    ¨ The sons of this eternity marry (Lu. 20:34).

    ¨ Worthy to attain that eternity (Lu. 20:35).

    ¨ Since the eternity began (Jn. 9:32; Ac. 3:21).

    ¨ Conformed to this eternity (Ro. 12:2).

    ¨ Mystery kept secret since the eternity began but now made manifest (Ro. 16:25-26).

    ¨ Where is the disputer of this eternity (1Co. 1:20)?

    ¨ Wisdom of this eternity, nor of the rulers of this eternity…ordained before the eternities…which none of the rulers of this eternity…(1Co. 2:6-8)

    ¨ Wise in this eternity (1Co. 3:18).

    ¨ Upon whom the ends of the eternities have come.
    (1Co. 10:11)

    ¨ God of this eternity has blinded (2Co. 4:4).

    ¨ Deliver us from this present evil eternity (Ga. 1:4).

    ¨ Not only in this eternity but also in that which is to come (Ep. 1:21).

    ¨ Walked according to the eternity of this world (Ep. 2:2).

    ¨ In the eternities to come (Ep. 2:7).

    ¨ From the beginnings of the eternities (Ep. 3:9).

    ¨ Hidden from eternities…but now…revealed (Col. 1:26).

    ¨ Loved this present eternity (2Ti. 4:10).

    ¨ Receive him for eternity (Ph.1:15). Does this mean forever or only until Onesimus dies?

    ¨ Powers of the eternity to come (He. 6:5).

    ¨ At the end of the eternities (He. 9:26).

    ¨ We understand the eternities have been prepared by a saying of God (He. 11:3).

    How can we say…

    ¨ “Before eternity” or “eternity began”? Eternity has no beginning (Jn. 9:32; Ac. 3:21; 1Co. 2:7; Ep. 3:9).

    ¨ “Present eternity,” “eternity to come,” and “end of eternity?” Eternity transcends time. Only God is eternal (Mt. 24:3; 28:20; 1Co. 10:11; 2Ti. 4:10; He. 6:5; 9:26).

    ¨ “This eternity,” “that eternity,” or “eternities”? There is only one eternity (Lu. 16:8; 20:34-35; Ro. 12:2; 1Co. 1:20; 2:6-8; 3:18; 10:11; 2Co. 4:4; Ga. 1:4; Ep. 1:21; 2:2, 7; 3:9; Col. 1:26; 2Ti. 4:10; He. 11:3).

    ¨ “Eternal secret” if the secret is revealed? (Ro. 16:25-26; Col. 1:26). It is no longer a “secret” at that point."

    Eternity in the Bible by Gerry Beauchemin – Hope Beyond Hell
     
  7. needhugs

    needhugs Flibbertyjibbet

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    it's beginning to be funny to me that people seem to be blinded... but that's ok, God left me squirming for a while in that word... only God can help a person to see... and I think that God has to know that you WANT the truth about Him...

    You know, i 'tried' to become a Christian a year or so before I had God talk to me about it all... I couldn't even become a Christian without God revealing Himself to me! I was like doubting thomas i guess!
    But anyway, even back then, i found a funny scripture in some weird Bible, a women's study Bible... and the scripture was talking how the dead will hear His voice and then it said 'and if they listen, they shall be saved'... and that scripture was a shock to my heart! and even tho i could never find it again lol it was securely 'tucked away' in my being... and THAT was my first intro, BY GOD, to 'the victorious Gospel'

    ASV john 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and they that hear shall live.

    And I thought I was the only one who knew!! haha, then i heard about how the Jewish people believe in THREE books that are opened, not just the book of life... but one for the incorrigible, one for the fence sitters who can be talked into it, and one for those of us that got saved while on earth

    plus the next Jewish feasts to be fulfilled by God are 'the feast of trumpets' (God will come at the last trump) and then there are '10 days of Awe', then the day of atonement... so that's good news too... AFTER Jesus comes back, there are 10 days to behold Him, and make up their minds :) then they will have their sins taken care of.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
  8. needhugs

    needhugs Flibbertyjibbet

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    this scripture was my first 'exposure' from God, He drilled it into my being, about the Victorious Gospel:

    ASV john 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and they that hear shall live.

    tho, in the version of the Bible that I read it in, it said 'and if they listen, they shall be saved.'

    NLT:
    [​IMG] Jhn 5:24


    “I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.
    Jhn 5:25


    “And I assure you that the time is coming, indeed it’s here now, when the dead will hear my voice—the voice of the Son of God. And those who listen will live.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
  9. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    Christian "Universalism" is a heretical belief and organized theory contrary to all relevant orthodox Scripture on salvation. It takes a few verses out of context and ignores the truth.

    https://carm.org/universalism

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_universalism

    Christian Universalism | CARM.org
    carm.org
    Religious Groups and Cults - U

    "Christian Universalism" is the position that all of mankind will ultimately be saved through Jesus whether or not faith is professed in Him in this life.
     
  10. needhugs

    needhugs Flibbertyjibbet

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    Last edited: Jul 1, 2018
  11. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Olam=

    https://www.logosapostolic.org/hebrew-word-studies/5769-olam-everlasting.htm

    "And I will give to you, and to your seed after you, the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an age-lasting possession; and I will be their God.

    "He who is born in your house, and he who is bought with your money, must be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an age-lasting covenant."

    "And God said, Sarah your wife shall bear you a son indeed; and you shall call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an age-lasting covenant, and with his seed after him."

    "And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of Yahweh, the everlasting God."
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
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  12. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

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    WARNING>>>WARNING>>>>>WARNING!

    Failure to comply will be the cause of the release of the Jewish Encyclopedia weapon by D.A.!

    The Doctrine Of The Ages

    By Ernest L. Martin, Ph.D.

    The Doctrine of the Ages in the Bible
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
  13. needhugs

    needhugs Flibbertyjibbet

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    if it was true that the Creator of the universe was going to burn everyone for eternity for not being able to follow the rules of a completely IMPOSSIBLE religion... then there would be nothing more important in life than trying to avoid such an unimaginable horror.... there would be nothing else to be done, the only work would be: to not have such an end. because there would be no end. Nothing else would matter. Not even love. This world would be a terror, knowing at the end we would slide into flames never ending. Those that say they are saved because they believe? good for you! the devils believe and tremble... take a look at the end of the book, there's a list of folks that are getting hucked into the lake of fire WITH the unbelievers, people that have lied, people that have been afraid... is there anybody who is afraid of this? are you lying about this? well that will get you in the lake of fire to roast forever, right? The God who loves you will supernaturally keep you alive, burning in flames, for eternity, right? They should write a worship song about that.

    I'm here to wish you well, while you obey Jesus... yep, good luck with that... try not to have an ananais and saphirra experience either, it will only get you into hell sooner.

    Don't mind me, i'm a bit cranky when i get tired... the whole thing makes me so sad... we are all drawn to Jesus, then find out later that we are saved by grace, and there is not a durned thing we can do, to do all the things we are supposed to do... and you know what you get? for not being able to do it? Jesus calls you 'you who practice lawlessness' and tells you to get lost... and where do the lost go? yep, it's the burning in flames for eternity thing again...

    le sigh... i don't know how believers in eternal torture can even make it thru a day!! i know i couldn't when i believed in it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
  14. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,646
    Non-Denom
    We arise again to a world filled with the death of 15000 children around the globe (under age 5) dying. In at least 8% of the world population depression reigns in various degrees or another. Many simply cannot bear to face one more day! This link will not remedy the groan all of us find within ourselves, but we will speak of One whose great Plan moves to glorious completion. The groan consumes me, the Plan much more. The Father of all fathers can be trusted! He doeth/does all things well.

    "When we believe that God is Father, we also believe that such a father's hand will never cause his child a needless tear. We may not understand life any better, but we will not resent life any longer." - Dr. William Barclay-

    "The whole of created life shall be delivered/set free/ emancipated...."
     
  15. needhugs

    needhugs Flibbertyjibbet

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    what link? did you forget to put the link in? i was looking forward to the link :)
     
  16. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,646
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    My dear lady, you my dear are on the link! Please to not look at the following until you get up from some rest; and then and only then consider some wonderful math.

    Pure Math=

    http://www.rogerknapp.com/inspire/mathGod.html
     
  17. needhugs

    needhugs Flibbertyjibbet

    357
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    ok, haha, i think i will go to bed. you mean this thread is the link... i get it... tho i don't know how people will find it... i saw no link on the main list of boards, to controversial doctrines...
     
  18. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,646
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    Dear Ron: The "few" verses taken "out of context" will cause a violent reaction on the upside. At any time you would care to come on this link to address the "few verses", I assure you there are some here who will be thrilled to meet with you.

    Dr. Harold Lovelace=

    http://sigler.org/lovelace
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2018
  19. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

    +1,012
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    US-Republican
  20. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +1,646
    Non-Denom
    It will not be necessary to copy & paste. My old feeble life will draw on much higher resources: where would you like to begin? How about a Divine equation?
     
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