• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

the literal interpretation of scripture

Discussion in 'Dispensationalism' started by Bramblewild, Oct 18, 2019.

  1. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,528
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    At the time they were living in tents in the wilderness. There was a door keeper. The person that decides what goes in and out of the door. In this case Jesus is the Son of God and HE knows the will of the Father so He was assigned the job of door keeper. Nothing goes in or out of the door without His permission in that He represents the Father or the owner of the tent. This means he controls what food they eat, what clothing they wear. Who is even allowed in the tent and who has to leave the tent. This represents a dwelling. Also we learn about the Tabernacle and how God requires Holiness and Sanctification. God dwells in the Holy of Holies and only one person was allowed to enter in once a year. After Calvary we learn that the veil was torn. David said: "Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere; I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Pslm 84:10)

    Psalm 27:4
    One thing I have asked of the LORD, this is what I desire: to dwell in the house of the LORD all the days of my life, to gaze on the beauty of the LORD and seek Him in His temple.
     
  2. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,528
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Adam and Eve were common anestors. They are the matriarch and patriarch of the Hebrew people. Later on Sarah and Abraham became a common ancestor also. As Abraham and Hagar are the common ancestor for the people that call themselves muslims today. Just as God told Hagar regarding Ishmael: ""I will greatly multiply your offspring so that they will be too numerous to count." (Genesis 16:10)


    "But God replied, “Your wife Sarah will indeed bear you a son, and you are to name him Isaac. I will establish My covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. As for Ishmael, I have heard you, and I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and multiply him greatly. He will become the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. But I will establish My covenant with Isaac, whom Sarah will bear to you at this time next year.” (Genesis 17:19-21)

    The new Jerusalem is 1500 by 1500 by 1500 miles. This is the entire Arab Continental plate. This includes all of the air rights and all of the mineral rights. There will be peace between the descendants of Isaiah & Ishmael. They will dwell together in peace and they will inhabit the promised land.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,528
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    The apple tree is produced by grafting in the branches from one fruit tree into another. There is actually a fruit tree that has 40 different trees grafted into one tree.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
  4. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,528
    United States
    Christian
    Married

    Attached Files:

  5. JohnAshton

    JohnAshton Well-Known Member

    +1,460
    United States
    Anglican
    Married
    Because Young Earth puts Adam and Eve at about 4000 BC.

    I believe (I am back to faith thinking) that it is probable God and Creation occurred before the making of Adam and Eve.
     
  6. joshua 1 9

    joshua 1 9 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +3,528
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    That is when they lived around 5990 years ago. Clearly there were people around before Adam and Eve. This is why Cain was afraid that he would be murdered: "Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me."(Genesis4:14) Clearly Cain was able to live and survive outside of the land as Adam was able to survive outside of Eden. Where do people think that Adam went when God threw him out of the Garden? "So Cain went out from the presence of the LORD and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden"

    Now people are talking that Jesus began His ministry in the year 26 AD. If you add 2000 years that would be 2026. This is when Jesus began His literal ministry when He turned the water into wine at a wedding. So people are predicting that a significant symbolic event will take place in the year 2026. Actually 2020 is considered to be very symbolic also.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
  7. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

    +812
    Australia
    Christian
    Married
    Scripture only indicates one creation. With Adam and Eve made on the sixth day. As for timing, I don't use Bishop James Ussher calculations. I don't believe the Bible should be used in that way.
     
  8. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

    +1,325
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    I was educated as a pure scientist, and worked many years as an applied scientist. And during my education and career as a scientist, I studied all the various dating systems. And I found one very interesting fact. All but one of these dating systems is based on a rank assumption which has been accepted without any proof of any kind. The assumptions are different on the different systems, but all of them have at least one such assumption, except tree ring dating. But tree ring dating is only available over a limited geographical area and only goes back a few thousand years.
     
  9. JohnAshton

    JohnAshton Well-Known Member

    +1,460
    United States
    Anglican
    Married
    Genesis has two versions of the Creation. I could care less if anyone believes in only one Creation. Most importantly, for me, it is not a salvational issue.
     
  10. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

    +812
    Australia
    Christian
    Married
    Genesis has one creation account, an overview and a close-up view. It may not affect someone's salvation but it will alter the view of important doctrines such as no death before sin, that Jesus is the second Adam or where sin came from.
     
  11. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,503
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    I don't agree. The account in Gen 1 is vastly different from what is found in Gen 2. Animals are created before man in Gen 1 but in Gen 2 man is created first before animals are created and that's just one difference.

    If Gen 2 was a close up of Gen 1, then the order of events would remain the same, not reverse in order.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2020
  12. JohnAshton

    JohnAshton Well-Known Member

    +1,460
    United States
    Anglican
    Married
    JohnAshton said: Genesis has two versions of the Creation. I could care less if anyone believes in only one Creation. Most importantly, for me, it is not a salvational issue.

    coffee4u said: Genesis has one creation account, an overview and a close-up view. It may not affect someone's salvation but it will alter the view of important doctrines such as no death before sin, that Jesus is the second Adam or where sin came from.

    JohnAshton said: Your interpretation errs, coffee4u. ewq1938 competently corrected it.
     
  13. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

    +812
    Australia
    Christian
    Married
    They do remain the same. Genesis 1 gives the details of each day in sequence so that we know precisely what was created each day.

    Day 1)Light, day and night. Since the sun was not yet made some other source was the light.
    4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

    Day 2)God made the water canopy.

    7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

    Day 3)God created land and sea
    10 God called the dry ground “land,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.” And God saw that it was good.
    Then plants
    12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

    Day 4) God created the sun, moon and stars.

    6 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.
    8 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

    Day 5) God created swimming and flying creatures.

    20 And God said, “Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.”
    22 God blessed them and said, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth.” 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

    Day 6) God created land animals
    24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so.
    Then man
    26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
    31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.


    Genesis 2 Opens with a summery about the creation week.

    2 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
    2 And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. 3 So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.

    It then focuses in on man but not before a few other details get mentioned.
    5 When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground, 6 and a mist was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground—
    This passage is describing how there were no crops like carrots, wheat and field plants.

    The Hebrew word for the plants God created during Genesis 1:11, is de'se, which is a very general term such as grass, trees, shrubs. Here, in verse 5, the terms used are siah and ē'seb, which are more specific. This passage is describing the lack of cultivated crops grown for humans to eat.

    7 then the Lord God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature. 8 And the Lord God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 And out of the ground the Lord God made to spring up every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    Then it describes how Adam was made from the clay and became a living being. God planted the garden with crops and plants that man could eat and placed Adam there.
    15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it.

    Working the soil and growing crops. This was the only area with these types of plants.

    Then the Bible looks back to how the animals had been made.
    19 Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.

    He wasn't creating them then, they had already been created. What God did after Adam was created on day 6 was to make the animals pass before him so he could name them. The whole point of this being that Adam would see that there was no one else like him.

    But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him. 21 So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh. 22 And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man.

    And lastly, God made the woman.

    There is nothing out of order in Genesis 2 it merely focuses in more on the creation of man and the garden. It's assumed the reader is already aware of the order of creation.



    My interpretation does not err it is your understanding of Hebrew which lacks.
     
  14. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,503
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    Doesn't change the fact that animals were created before man in Gen 1 but man is created before animals in Gen 2. Clearly these are two different creation accounts that happens at different times.

    Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
    Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.


    This is the 6th day. What does God make first? Land animals!



    Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


    Now man is made and has dominion over the animals that were made first.


    1: animals created FIRST, before man is created.


    2: man created AFTER animals.

    Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
    Genesis 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.


    God sees no man that would be for tilling the ground, farming. Historically mankind were not farmers but were primarily hunter-gatherers which modern Archeology has also documented. The fact that Adam is a farmer means he is a more modern type of human.


    Genesis 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
    Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.


    And he makes a man, alone. No female is created.


    Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
    Genesis 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
    Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


    He is in charge of the garden of Eden, working alone.


    Genesis 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.


    God decides Adam needs help. Adam is alone! No animals are there!


    Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


    Genesis 1, animals created before man.
    Genesis 2, man created before animals.

    Obviously these are two different creation accounts. Gen 2 is a smaller creation account in a smaller place where as Gen 1 details a much larger creation account in a larger area. Also take not that there is no mention of fish being created in Gen 2 because fish were already created in Gen 1.
     
  15. JohnAshton

    JohnAshton Well-Known Member

    +1,460
    United States
    Anglican
    Married
    ewq1938 reminds us of the errors in Genesis re: the Creation.

    I have no trouble personally if one will only accept Genesis as evidence, but I will point out it is a classic example of confirmation bias.

    The factual evidence indicts that mankind existed before Adam and Eve in both agricultural communities and as hunter-gather groups before, during, and after their establishment.
     
  16. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,503
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    There are no errors except in interpretation.
     
  17. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

    +812
    Australia
    Christian
    Married
    Man was not created before animals, I even highlighted the passage. The animals are referred back to as already being made, they were merely paraded in front of Adam for him to name. I gave a lengthy and precise answer to clear this up. Go back and read it. I don't have time for this.
     
  18. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,503
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican

    That's not what the text shows:

    Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
    Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

    Adam was alone in the garden so God decided to make animals so he wouldn't be alone.
     
  19. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,503
    United States
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    Not according to the Hebrew word used. The Aspect (or verb tense as we say in English) is in the imperfect which means it was not a completed action but one taking place currently in the verse so God indeed was creating animals out of the ground right there in front of Adam.
     
  20. coffee4u

    coffee4u Well-Known Member

    +812
    Australia
    Christian
    Married
    Genesis one clearly states that God created the animals before man. Mosses in genesis 2 is narrowing down the focus more to man and his perspective, he doesn't need to repeat that animals were made on day 5 because he's already established that. God brought the animals to him so that Adam would realize that none were suitable as a mate for him.

    And depending which version you read the verse will say "That God had formed" had meaning had previously formed, which given that we have Genesis 1 with the precise order of creation given to us, this is the correct reading. Reading this as two separate accounts of Creation is ridiculous. God does not make mistakes, he doesn't go oops messed up, better start again. The creation was "very good", it was complete.
     
Loading...