the literal interpretation of scripture

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Well as the church is the espoused of Christ and prior to His Return the church marries the Lamb, and He is King of Kings- the wife of a king is known as a queen!

That's the logic of "flesh", not spirit nor truth.

 

[David Kent]

DANIEL 7:

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Sorry but reading the bible as written and not rewritten- the antichrist rises AFTER the ten kings subdues 3 and the other 7 give their authority to the beast for a short span (one hour). So your analogy does not fit the bible.

That just negates your final comment.
The ten horns that shall arise, did arise as on the fall the empire. ECF understood on the disolution. They were ten kings. And another shall arise after them and HE shall be diferent from the first (ten) and HE shall subdue three kings.

You can't even read the scripture without twisting it. I have no reason to change my previous posts which were the literal interpretation.

Why don't you start a new thread on the Antichrist

 

[David Kent]

And yes all these people named the popes as the antichrist. But the antichrist is a single person who rules concurrently with the ten horns and through his false prophet causes all to wear a mark! Where anbd what is the mark of the pope?

Again you are ignorant of History. The mark of the popes is the sign of the cross, given by the right hand on the forehead. When papists "cross" themselves they start at the forehead with the right hand. In the dark days before the reformation when papal power was asolute, if you didn't have that mark, you could not buy or sell, or even be buried. In Oxford it is recorded that 40 "heretics" of a germanic tongue, were hounded out of the city and no one was permitted to sell anything to them, or to give them any aid. Being the depth of winter they all perished.

 

[nolidad]

That's the logic of "flesh", not spirit nor truth.

So even though the church marries the king of kings- you do not believe we become His queen???

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

So even though the church marries the king of kings- you do not believe we become His queen???

No.

The imagery of a marriage does not fit fully, realize. Marriage is between one man and one woman, not any group.

 

[nolidad]

Again you are ignorant of History. The mark of the popes is the sign of the cross, given by the right hand on the forehead. When papists "cross" themselves they start at the forehead with the right hand. In the dark days before the reformation when papal power was asolute, if you didn't have that mark, you could not buy or sell, or even be buried. In Oxford it is recorded that 40 "heretics" of a germanic tongue, were hounded out of the city and no one was permitted to sell anything to them, or to give them any aid. Being the depth of winter they all perished.

Well I may not have known about those poor forty germanic people! I did know that most of Europe was bound by the Papal authority, but once again that bit of history does not match Scripture!


Revelation 13 King James Version (KJV)

13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?


When did Catholics openly worship Satan (the dragon)?

How are the popes like Babylon, the Medes and Paersians and Greeks?

When did the papistry have a mortal wound that was healed prior to the reformation???

Revelation 13:5-10 King James Version (KJV)
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

When did the 42 months (3 1/2 years or half of the 70th week of Daniel) come into play?

When did the popes declare war against the saints and overcome them?

When did the popes rule the whole world?

Revelation 13:11-14 King James Version (KJV)
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

When did a religious leader arise who called on the world to worship the pope?
When did he do all sorts of miracles?
Fire coming from heaven?
When did they make an image of the beast that came alive?

Revelation 13:15-18 King James Version (KJV)
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six

A living image? when!

The mark on the forehead and head. ?? The word is charagma which means a stamp or imprint. Not making teh sign of the cross with your hand.

Once again this had to be world wide. so when did a pope institute the mark world wide???

See there are loads of interesting bits of history. Some even come near fulfilling prophecy. But God doesn't believe in close enough is good enough! These will be fulfilled completely- and not just kind of sort of!

Sorry but these are still future and no not because your hatred of the Jesuits makes you think so, but because they have not happened yet. Trhe only way one can make these fulfilled is to re write the word of God to fit some piece of history that comes kind of close!

 

[nolidad]

No.

The imagery of a marriage does not fit fully, realize. Marriage is between one man and one woman, not any group.

But we are one in christ! and who says it doesn't hold. do you have a chapter and verse that says so? It says in gods Word the marriage of the Lamb to His bride, not brides! The church is one bride whether we understand that or not.

 

[nolidad]

That just negates your final comment.
The ten horns that shall arise, did arise as on the fall the empire. ECF understood on the disolution. They were ten kings. And another shall arise after them and HE shall be diferent from the first (ten) and HE shall subdue three kings.

You can't even read the scripture without twisting it. I have no reason to change my previous posts which were the literal interpretation.

Why don't you start a new thread on the Antichrist

Who or what is ECF?

No they were not. You have three kingdoms fall (not from a papal army) and say seven others, but when did they formally cede their authority to the pope? YOu forget that the Bible says this is worldwide, not just part of Europe and northern Africa and the middle east.

Yours is not a literal interpretation based on that and based on teh fact those ten kings rule concurrently with the antichrist. You have the papistry running concurrently from the end of the 4th century till now! The Bible as written does not say that.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But we are one in christ! and who says it doesn't hold.

Echad.
Look up Echad (internet/ Bible search).

"One"

NOT married. (married is written "one in the flesh, or one flesh".)

Yahuweh and Yahushua "Echad" eternally.
Ekklesia (born of the Father) "Echad" (one) With the son and with the Father.

NOT married.

 

[nolidad]

Echad.
Look up Echad (internet/ Bible search).

"One"

NOT married. (married is written "one in the flesh, or one flesh".)

Yahuweh and Yahushua "Echad" eternally.
Ekklesia (born of the Father) "Echad" (one) With the son and with the Father.

NOT married.

Rev. 19:

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Yes the church marries Jesus.

2 Corinthians 11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.


EPHESIANS 5:

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Sorry but you are mistaken.

And I know the "one" in Hebrew of Yachid and Echad.

 

[Terral]

Hi Bram:

Thank you for starting this discussion. You wrote:

This seems like something that should be non-controversial: scripture should be interpreted literally. I guess it's understandable that there are biblical passages that could pose difficulties, but some of the controversies are rather strange.

Scripture can be interpreted literally once you recognize God's three witnesses of spirit, blood and water. Please allow me to share with you the Wycliffe translation of 1Jn 5:6+8 that in my view is the most accurate translation of the Critical Text (older Egyptian Manuscripts) Greek:

"This is Jesus Christ, that came by water and blood; not in water only, but in water [kingdom doctrine] and blood [grace doctrine]. And the Spirit is he that witnesseth, that Christ is [the] truth...

8 And three be, that give witnessing in earth, the Spirit, water, and blood; and these three be one. 1John 5:6-8.

Draw two overlapping circles (venn diagrams) to realize you are looking at three witnesses of spirit, blood and water where the blood witness in the central section is "begotten."

Scripture is laid out in the exact "image of a man" (Our Image from Gen. 1:26-28) like the Tabernacle of Moses and the Temple with the "two veils" intact that separate your spirit (spirit witness) from your soul (blood witness) and your soul from your body (water witness). While the entire Bible is written "for" you, only the Pauline Epistles to the Gentiles are written "to" you as God's personal mail. Recognize that the 39 books of the OT are written "to" Israel and the 13 Kingdom books of the NT (Matt. - John, Heb. - Rev.) are written to the Prophetic Kingdom Bride, and God's Word interprets itself rather nicely.

80 color-coded diagrams are used in my book The Mystery Explained available at https://www.terral03.com and the eBook version is given away free for subscribers supporting the research for as low as 2 bucks per month. Once you see God's wisdom hidden in plain sight using His three witnesses of spirit, blood and water, then you see them EVERYWHERE in the Scriptures, in the Cosmos and within you. :0)

Blessings,

Terral

 

[Dan Perez]

Rev. 19:

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Yes the church marries Jesus.

2 Corinthians 11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.


EPHESIANS 5:

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Sorry but you are mistaken.

And I know the "one" in Hebrew of Yachid and Echad.

Hi you used 1 Cor 11:2 and the Greek word ESPOUSED / HERMOZO can mean to JOIN , TO FIT TOGETHER , and in the B O C there are no JEWS nor GREEK , nor MALES nor FEMALES !1

By the way Christ has a EX-WIFE in Israel in Jer 3:8 where Christ gives Israel a BILL of DIVORCE !!

What say you ??

dan p

 

[nolidad]

Hi you used 1 Cor 11:2 and the Greek word ESPOUSED / HERMOZO can mean to JOIN , TO FIT TOGETHER , and in the B O C there are no JEWS nor GREEK , nor MALES nor FEMALES !1

By the way Christ has a EX-WIFE in Israel in Jer 3:8 where Christ gives Israel a BILL of DIVORCE !!

What say you ??

dan p

Well Paul was using espouosed in the marital sense,

Just like Ephesians 6 shows the church to be th ebride of Christ!

We are not married to the Lored yet- that occurs in heaven right before Jesus physically returns to earth!

And Israel is not the ex-wife of Jesus but of the Father! And it also says that Jehovah will remarry Israel once again !!

The marriage was the Old Covenant sealed in blood and confirmed by both God and Israel.

The remarriage is the New Covenant, (Jeremiah 31) sealed in blood and confirmed by both God and united Israel!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The Church is not the Bride | Bein' a Berean
The Church is not the Bride | Bein' a Berean
This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:31-32. This reference is an analogy speaking of the union, that already exists, between a man and a wife, not a bride, and the verse that follows explains that it is the union we now have with Christ, rather than a future union.

 

[nolidad]

The Church is not the Bride | Bein' a Berean
The Church is not the Bride | Bein' a Berean
This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church. Ephesians 5:31-32. This reference is an analogy speaking of the union, that already exists, between a man and a wife, not a bride, and the verse that follows explains that it is the union we now have with Christ, rather than a future union.

Well tell your berean buddy that I found the one verse He is looking for about a wedding ceremony!

REv. 19:
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

And the mystery of Ephesians 5 is that how a husband and wife interact is how Jesus and the church interact as huband and wife! How do we know because the very next verse He says Nevertheless-meaning even though all this refers to Christ and the church husbands and wives- do this!!!

Sorry but I will take the word as written, for that is the inspired Word and not "bein a berean'!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Well tell your berean buddy that I found the one verse He is looking for about a wedding ceremony!

Don't you realize yet or have you never met a four ?
There is NO weedding ceremony .... it is an analogy, like JESUS IS A DOOR.

Do you want to be in union with A DOOR!?

 

[Dan Perez]

Well Paul was using espouosed in the marital sense,

Just like Ephesians 6 shows the church to be th ebride of Christ!

We are not married to the Lored yet- that occurs in heaven right before Jesus physically returns to earth!

And Israel is not the ex-wife of Jesus but of the Father! And it also says that Jehovah will remarry Israel once again !!

The marriage was the Old Covenant sealed in blood and confirmed by both God and Israel.

The remarriage is the New Covenant, (Jeremiah 31) sealed in blood and confirmed by both God and united Israel!

Hi and just where is the FATHER called a GROOM ?

If we are " in CHRIST " and are part of His BODY as Christ is the HEAD of that body , HOW DOES THE HEAD MARRY THE BODY ?

dan p

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Hi and just where is the FATHER called a GROOM ?

If we are " in CHRIST " and are part of His BODY as Christ is the HEAD of that body , HOW DOES THE HEAD MARRY THE BODY ?

dan p

Good!
That is just ONE of SEVERAL inconsistencies that happen
when what is written in God's Word
is taken for what it is not saying.

 

[ewq1938]

Hi and just where is the FATHER called a GROOM ?

If we are " in CHRIST " and are part of His BODY as Christ is the HEAD of that body , HOW DOES THE HEAD MARRY THE BODY ?

dan p

You are mixing metaphors. There is no need for marriage in the example of a head and body because they are one body already. Only when there are two bodies, one male and one female, is there a marriage that makes them one flesh.

 

[nolidad]

Don't you realize yet or have you never met a four ?
There is NO weedding ceremony .... it is an analogy, like JESUS IS A DOOR.

Do you want to be in union with A DOOR!?

There is no words that inform us it is an analogy!

So clean linen for the saints is a myth as well?

God is the master of Grammar and clearly inserted words like "like" "as" like unto" etc, to let us know when something is an analogy!

So what it is an anaology of and on what basis do you make the claim?