Why every Christian should have a literal view of scripture.

[Neostarwcc]

1. Jesus, The Apostles, and the Prophets had a literal view of scripture. An example of this is when Jesus fought against Satan he used scripture to combat the devil. Paul also called scripture the very word of God and viewed scripture and took Jesus's words VERY literally.

2. Jesus came to fulfill the law and the Prophets. One of the reasons why he came to save his sheep was to correct many views of scripture at the time among the Jews at the time (mainoy the scribes and pharisees) and his words and the words of his Prophets and Apostles should be viewed as final and definitive.

3. Moses who saw the very back of God and recieved many of the words of God through conversations with him took the literal words of God literally.

4. It's foolishness to take the word of God symbolically because it undermines the authority of God and the very center of the Christian faith. The very center of the Christian faith is the words that Jesus said and his commandments and when we take his words symbolically we twist the very words that Jesus spoke and the Apostles thought were very important and recorded down.

5. Just because the Bible contains stories and humor does not mean that the words of those that carried authority in the Bible should be twisted. This includes Jesus, the apostles, and the Prophets.

Now people can have varying views on the interpretations of scripture, but ALL Christians should take the very words of God very, very seriously and a symbolic view of scripture undermines that.

 

[chevyontheriver]

1. Jesus, The Apostles, and the Prophets had a literal view of scripture. An example of this is when Jesus fought against Satan he used scripture to combat the devil. Paul also called scripture the very word of God and viewed scripture and took Jesus's words VERY literally.

2. Jesus came to fulfill the law and the Prophets. One of the reasons why he came to save his sheep was to correct many views of scripture at the time among the Jews at the time (mainoy the scribes and pharisees) and his words and the words of his Prophets and Apostles should be viewed as final and definitive.

3. Moses who saw the very back of God and recieved many of the words of God through conversations with him took the literal words of God literally.

4. It's foolishness to take the word of God symbolically because it undermines the authority of God and the very center of the Christian faith. The very center of the Christian faith is the words that Jesus said and his commandments and when we take his words symbolically we twist the very words that Jesus spoke and the Apostles thought were very important and recorded down.

5. Just because the Bible contains stories and humor does not mean that the words of those that carried authority in the Bible should be twisted. This includes Jesus, the apostles, and the Prophets.

Now people can have varying views on the interpretations of scripture, but ALL Christians should take the very words of God very, very seriously and a symbolic view of scripture undermines that.

Just a question for someone who says we should have a literal view of Scripture. Do you still have two eyes? Have you not gouged at least one of them out yet? If you still have two eyes I suspect you treat at least some of Scripture non-literally.

 

[Roderick Spode]

Just a question for someone who says we should have a literal view of Scripture. Do you still have two eyes? Have you not gouged at least one of them out yet? If you still have two eyes I suspect you treat at least some of Scripture non-literally

I think one can be literal, and still use figure of speech.

 

[RonJohnSilver]

Literal where it makes sense to be literal, symbolic where it makes sense to be symbolic.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I think one can be literal, and still use figure of speech.

I would HOPE so, because otherwise too many people still have eyes. I just wanted to see how literal they take being literal.

 

[Strong in Him]

4. It's foolishness to take the word of God symbolically because it undermines the authority of God and the very center of the Christian faith.

I doubt any Christian takes ALL of God's word symbolically.

5. Just because the Bible contains stories and humor does not mean that the words of those that carried authority in the Bible should be twisted.

Does any Christian do that?

Now people can have varying views on the interpretations of scripture, but ALL Christians should take the very words of God very, very seriously

I don't know of any Christian who does otherwise.

and a symbolic view of scripture undermines that.

Not all of Scripture is literally true.
Jesus was not literally a door, a vine, a lamb or bread.

Some Scripture can be believed literally but not applied literally.
Paul asked Timothy to bring his cloak and his scrolls when he visited him, 2 Timothy 4:15. Did he mean that literally? Yes, he wanted, and needed, them. Can we apply that literally to ourselves? No.

 

[Stephen3141]

Could you define what you mean by "Literal"?

This is parochial, denominational language.

 

[eleos1954]

1. Jesus, The Apostles, and the Prophets had a literal view of scripture. An example of this is when Jesus fought against Satan he used scripture to combat the devil. Paul also called scripture the very word of God and viewed scripture and took Jesus's words VERY literally.

2. Jesus came to fulfill the law and the Prophets. One of the reasons why he came to save his sheep was to correct many views of scripture at the time among the Jews at the time (mainoy the scribes and pharisees) and his words and the words of his Prophets and Apostles should be viewed as final and definitive.

3. Moses who saw the very back of God and recieved many of the words of God through conversations with him took the literal words of God literally.

4. It's foolishness to take the word of God symbolically because it undermines the authority of God and the very center of the Christian faith. The very center of the Christian faith is the words that Jesus said and his commandments and when we take his words symbolically we twist the very words that Jesus spoke and the Apostles thought were very important and recorded down.

5. Just because the Bible contains stories and humor does not mean that the words of those that carried authority in the Bible should be twisted. This includes Jesus, the apostles, and the Prophets.

Now people can have varying views on the interpretations of scripture, but ALL Christians should take the very words of God very, very seriously and a symbolic view of scripture undermines that.

There is literal, metaphoric and symbolic language all throughout the bible.
Types and anti types to give us a better understanding of things.

Signs, symbols, parables .... it's the way the Lord helps us understand ....

The book of Revelation in particular is HIGHLY symbolic.

Understanding symbolism is hardly undermining the authority of God ... on the contrary ... He reveals himself through it.

 

[com7fy8]

Understanding symbolism is hardly undermining the authority of God ... on the contrary ... He reveals himself through it.

There are people who claim a lot of things in the Bible are metaphors. But do they claim the resurrection of Jesus to be a metaphor? They don't seem to dare to go this far.

I am sure there are things in God's word which are symbolism. For example, we have that the day of the Lord will come "as a thief in the night" > 1 Thessalonians 5:2. And we know literally that a day in time can not be a thief which is a person!

And words can be symbols with more than one meaning. For example, "love" is a word which has even evil meanings, such as "love of money" (in 1 Timothy 6:10).

And there are scriptures which use "love", but we need for God to have us experience His love so we know what He means. For example, we have "love" used in Romans 5:5 >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

No words with literal interpretation can by themselves have us know what this means. We know the meaning of Romans 5:5 by experiencing this love which is deeper than words.

But I guess we could say there is the literal meaning that we can state in words > how we have God Himself personally sharing His own love with us "in our hearts".

But there can be very literal people who have no clue what it is like to share with God in His own love. But they can demand literal interpretation so they can control people to do what they claim is literal interpretation of God's word. And they can use literal dictating in order to compare themselves outwardly with other groups and criticize them; but this is not wise > 1 Corinthians 10:12.

And in case someone is pushing one's own literal understanding of the Bible, this is against the literal meaning of >

"lean not on your own understanding"

which is in Proverbs 3:5-6.

And, of course, how we are now is not mature enough to understand and to do what God knows His word means. We need how God in us has us doing His word >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

Literally here, it is saying how God in us "works" our willing, even. But there are literalists who insist you have a free will and you must get your own self to choose what God wants. They do not believe God will personally speak to you. And they expect you to get yourself to choose and do what God says He desires. But God's word says God is so personal with us, that He in us works us to will and do whatever He pleases.

And so we need, then, to personally submit to Him, all the time so we discover how He does with us all that He means by His word.

And every word is God's in His love for us. Every word does not have only a literal meaning, but His

*love* meaning,

not limited to how we now can understand Him.

God is able to use every part of His word to bring us to find out how to love, in sharing with one another children of God.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Jesus purposely spoke in parables so He couldn't be understood literally.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Just a question for someone who says we should have a literal view of Scripture. Do you still have two eyes? Have you not gouged at least one of them out yet? If you still have two eyes I suspect you treat at least some of Scripture non-literally.

When Jesus said that he clearly said it metaphorically. It was blantantly clear to the apostles that it was a metaphor but when something is a direct command from God it should be taken literally. I'm talking about when it's something that either a prophet, someone sent from God or God himself says and its BLANTANTLY clear that its a commandment or statement from God and therefore should be taken ljterally.


Like when Jesus tried explaining what common verses of the Bible actually meant in the sermon on the mount for example that should be taken literally. Jesus clearly meant those examples literally. Or when Moses wrote about how creation started and wrote about what happened that should be taken literally because he was a man who held authority and lead the Jewish people and was given that divine Revelation from God. But you're right, when the part of the Bible in question is clear to be a metaphor, it should be taken symbolically. Like your example of Jesus saying to cut off our appendages and throw them away because it's better for that to happen than be in hell. He was trying to make a point about just how awful it is to be in hell and if it were possible to save yourself, it would be better to not have any appendages than to burn in hell for eternity.

Buy when people take clear commandments of God and twist them to mean whatever it is that they want that's mostly what I'm talking about that every Christian should take the Bible seriously because the Bible contains many clear commandments or statements from God.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Jesus purposely spoke in parables so He couldn't be understood literally.

No he spoke in parables because he didnt want the crowds to know what he was talking about and wanted only the apostles to know what he was talkihg about. He explains this to the apostles in Matthew 13:10-17.

 

[Neostarwcc]

There are people who claim a lot of things in the Bible are metaphors. But do they claim the resurrection of Jesus to be a metaphor? They don't seem to dare to go this far.

I am sure there are things in God's word which are symbolism. For example, we have that the day of the Lord will come "as a thief in the night" > 1 Thessalonians 5:2. And we know literally that a day in time can not be a thief which is a person!

And words can be symbols with more than one meaning. For example, "love" is a word which has even evil meanings, such as "love of money" (in 1 Timothy 6:10).

And there are scriptures which use "love", but we need for God to have us experience His love so we know what He means. For example, we have "love" used in Romans 5:5 >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

No words with literal interpretation can by themselves have us know what this means. We know the meaning of Romans 5:5 by experiencing this love which is deeper than words.

But I guess we could say there is the literal meaning that we can state in words > how we have God Himself personally sharing His own love with us "in our hearts".

But there can be very literal people who have no clue what it is like to share with God in His own love. But they can demand literal interpretation so they can control people to do what they claim is literal interpretation of God's word. And they can use literal dictating in order to compare themselves outwardly with other groups and criticize them; but this is not wise > 1 Corinthians 10:12.

And in case someone is pushing one's own literal understanding of the Bible, this is against the literal meaning of >

"lean not on your own understanding"

which is in Proverbs 3:5-6.

And, of course, how we are now is not mature enough to understand and to do what God knows His word means. We need how God in us has us doing His word >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

Literally here, it is saying how God in us "works" our willing, even. But there are literalists who insist you have a free will and you must get your own self to choose what God wants. They do not believe God will personally speak to you. And they expect you to get yourself to choose and do what God says He desires. But God's word says God is so personal with us, that He in us works us to will and do whatever He pleases.

And so we need, then, to personally submit to Him, all the time so we discover how He does with us all that He means by His word.

And every word is God's in His love for us. Every word does not have only a literal meaning, but His

*love* meaning,

not limited to how we now can understand Him.

God is able to use every part of His word to bring us to find out how to love, in sharing with one another children of God.

There are "Christians" who try to explain away Jesus's resurrection. This is a basic Christian belief and as Paul said is the very heart of the Gospel. If Jesus was never crucified than our faith is in vain and we are still in our sins because it was God dying for us that secured our salvation. If Jesus were not fully God and died for us and rose from the dead than we could have never been saved..

 

[Neostarwcc]

There is literal, metaphoric and symbolic language all throughout the bible.
Types and anti types to give us a better understanding of things.

Signs, symbols, parables .... it's the way the Lord helps us understand ....

The book of Revelation in particular is HIGHLY symbolic.

Understanding symbolism is hardly undermining the authority of God ... on the contrary ... He reveals himself through it.

Yes, I agree with you that isn't why I made this thread. If you have the time I explained more of what I meant in post #11.

What I don't agree on is that all of the book of Revelation is symbolic. Jesus clearly is going to come back again, reign for 1,000 years and then create the New Heavens and the New Earth afterwards. The dead are going to be judged and thrown into the lake of fire and that lake is going to be an eternal punishment. These are examples that John and God made blatantly clear that they were meant to be taken literal.

But you're right, when John saw the holocaust he was not granted the right to see everything that was going to happen and instead was given symbolism as to what was going to happen. But there are parts of the book of Revelation that are clearly serious like when he saw all of the Redeemed in Revelation 7:9 or what Jesus says to John in Revelation 1, 2, & 3 those are clearly meant to be taken literally and John was given the right fron God to see and hear those examples.

 

[chevyontheriver]

When Jesus said that he clearly said it metaphorically. It was blantantly clear to the apostles that it was a metaphor but when something is a direct command from God it should be taken literally. I'm talking about when it's something that either a prophet, someone sent from God or God himself says and its BLANTANTLY clear that its a commandment or statement from God and therefore should be taken ljterally.


Like when Jesus tried explaining what common verses of the Bible actually meant in the sermon on the mount for example that should be taken literally. Jesus clearly meant those examples literally. Or when Moses wrote about how creation started and wrote about what happened that should be taken literally because he was a man who held authority and lead the Jewish people and was given that divine Revelation from God. But you're right, when the part of the Bible in question is clear to be a metaphor, it should be taken symbolically. Like your example of Jesus saying to cut off our appendages and throw them away because it's better for that to happen than be in hell. He was trying to make a point about just how awful it is to be in hell and if it were possible to save yourself, it would be better to not have any appendages than to burn in hell for eternity.

Buy when people take clear commandments of God and twist them to mean whatever it is that they want that's mostly what I'm talking about that every Christian should take the Bible seriously because the Bible contains many clear commandments or statements from God.

I agree with the ‘seriously’ thing but as to what to take seriously there is a WIDE divergence of opinion. Is John 6 literal? Most literalists would say of course not. I’d take it literally. And seriously.

 

[eleos1954]

There are people who claim a lot of things in the Bible are metaphors. But do they claim the resurrection of Jesus to be a metaphor? They don't seem to dare to go this far.

I am sure there are things in God's word which are symbolism. For example, we have that the day of the Lord will come "as a thief in the night" > 1 Thessalonians 5:2. And we know literally that a day in time can not be a thief which is a person!

And words can be symbols with more than one meaning. For example, "love" is a word which has even evil meanings, such as "love of money" (in 1 Timothy 6:10).

And there are scriptures which use "love", but we need for God to have us experience His love so we know what He means. For example, we have "love" used in Romans 5:5 >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

No words with literal interpretation can by themselves have us know what this means. We know the meaning of Romans 5:5 by experiencing this love which is deeper than words.

But I guess we could say there is the literal meaning that we can state in words > how we have God Himself personally sharing His own love with us "in our hearts".

But there can be very literal people who have no clue what it is like to share with God in His own love. But they can demand literal interpretation so they can control people to do what they claim is literal interpretation of God's word. And they can use literal dictating in order to compare themselves outwardly with other groups and criticize them; but this is not wise > 1 Corinthians 10:12.

And in case someone is pushing one's own literal understanding of the Bible, this is against the literal meaning of >

"lean not on your own understanding"

which is in Proverbs 3:5-6.

And, of course, how we are now is not mature enough to understand and to do what God knows His word means. We need how God in us has us doing His word >

"for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

Literally here, it is saying how God in us "works" our willing, even. But there are literalists who insist you have a free will and you must get your own self to choose what God wants. They do not believe God will personally speak to you. And they expect you to get yourself to choose and do what God says He desires. But God's word says God is so personal with us, that He in us works us to will and do whatever He pleases.

And so we need, then, to personally submit to Him, all the time so we discover how He does with us all that He means by His word.

And every word is God's in His love for us. Every word does not have only a literal meaning, but His

*love* meaning,

not limited to how we now can understand Him.

God is able to use every part of His word to bring us to find out how to love, in sharing with one another children of God.

Gods work/will is to change our thinking (which will change our doing} to be more in line with that of Christ .... but a person must have an open heart to God for Him to do that and their heart needs to be open to Him at all times. God don't force Himself on anyone.

Yes there are different types of love .... Gods love is a principle .... putting others before self. This is a choice ... no one can force it.

He knocks on the door to hearts ... a person must make the decision to let Him in .... or not.

 

[eleos1954]

Yes, I agree with you that isn't why I made this thread. If you have the time I explained more of what I meant in post #11.

What I don't agree on is that all of the book of Revelation is symbolic. Jesus clearly is going to come back again, reign for 1,000 years and then create the New Heavens and the New Earth afterwards. The dead are going to be judged and thrown into the lake of fire and that lake is going to be an eternal punishment. These are examples that John and God made blatantly clear that they were meant to be taken literal.

But you're right, when John saw the holocaust he was not granted the right to see everything that was going to happen and instead was given symbolism as to what was going to happen. But there are parts of the book of Revelation that are clearly serious like when he saw all of the Redeemed in Revelation 7:9 or what Jesus says to John in Revelation 1, 2, & 3 those are clearly meant to be taken literally and John was given the right fron God to see and hear those examples.

Jesus clearly is going to come back again, reign for 1,000 years and then create the New Heavens and the New Earth afterwards.

This is true .... the "dispute" is where the 1,000 years will be spent?

Revelation 7:9 .... where did John see the redeemed? (in heaven, not on earth)

The dead are going to be judged and thrown into the lake of fire and that lake is going to be an eternal punishment.

This is true and will happen after the 2nd resurrection ... eternal punishment (not eternal punishing)

The wages of sin is death (death for eternity) not a torturing place of some kind.

death is death (cease to exist) ... earthly death is temporary the 2nd death is forever.

Scripture is about life or death .... not torture.

Romans 6:23

22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the fruit you reap leads to holiness, and the outcome is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God is just and merciful ... even to the lost

21 Bible verses about Destruction Of The Wicked

 

[Carl Emerson]

No he spoke in parables because he didnt want the crowds to know what he was talking about and wanted only the apostles to know what he was talkihg about. He explains this to the apostles in Matthew 13:10-17.

That is exactly what I was meaning...

 

[Neostarwcc]

I agree with the ‘seriously’ thing but as to what to take seriously there is a WIDE divergence of opinion. Is John 6 literal? Most literalists would say of course not. I’d take it literally. And seriously.

John 6 was definitely literal because it contains Jesus's miracle with the loaves and the bread if you deny that miracle you kind of deny Jesus's divinity because only God could have done that, the importance of regular communion with other believers, the teaching that God will not lose one of his sheep, and the teaching that nobody can come to God unless God grants it beforehand. I can't remember what else John was saying in John 6 but it definitely was meant by John to be taken literally.

 

[Neostarwcc]

This is true .... the "dispute" is where the 1,000 years will be spent?

Revelation 7:9 .... where did John see the redeemed? (in heaven, not on earth)


This is true and will happen after the 2nd resurrection ... eternal punishment (not eternal punishing)

The wages of sin is death (death for eternity) not a torturing place of some kind.

death is death (cease to exist) ... earthly death is temporary the 2nd death is forever.

Scripture is about life or death .... not torture.

Romans 6:23

22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the fruit you reap leads to holiness, and the outcome is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God is just and merciful ... even to the lost

21 Bible verses about Destruction Of The Wickedt

In Revelation 7:9 John has a vision where he sees everyone who will be saved in Heaven. We know that this is the very same multitude that God promised to Abraham because John used the same descriptive words as God used when he promised Abraham "a multitude of descendants that no man can count as vast as the stars in the sky" in Genesis 26:4. We also know this to be the Redeemed because of the elders question and both of their responses in Rev 7:13-17.

But who else could John have seen but the very children of God? Because the number of the redeemed is supposed to be more vast than the stars in the sky and John describes a multitude of people who he nor any man could have counted. Nowhere else in the Bible were this multitude discussed aside from when describing God's sheep.

As to where Christ will reign for 1,000 years the book of Revelation doesn't say. But I say it's likely that he will reign from Jerusalem because the Messiah is supposed to come to redeem Israel and bring about a golden age of peace from Jerusalem. This could be the New Jerusalem and be fulfilled after the 1,000 years but somehow I doubt it. Isaiah in my opinion talks about where the messiah will reign from in Isaiah 65:17-23 in this prophecy God says through Isaiah that the Messiah will reign from Jerusalem and this will be a golden age of peace where nobody will die, and no more tears will be shed. If Jesus is the Messiah (which he is) than its very likely that he will reign from Jerusalem on Earth when he returns for his bride but youre right John never says this in the book of Revelation you have to go to other parts of the Bible to solve this puzzle.

John may have possibly not mentioned it in the book of Revelation because it was common knowledge for the Jewish people and the rest of his audience would have known that the Messiah was coming to redeem Israel. That's one reason why the Apostles and the crowds wanted to make Jesus king. If Jesus doesn't return to reign from Jerusalem and redeem Israel than the Jews have it right and he is not the messiah.