Sabbath and Week?

[HARK!]

I do not understand olah to necessarily mean a burnt offering but rather much prefer the literal meaning of the word, an ascending,

I've started an exhaustive series on what is brought forth to YHWH's table here: YHWH's Table - Table Talk

It's quite a project; and I've taken a break from it.

The English translations for what is brought forth, don't do these subjects justice.

I was really excited when I stumbled onto the information found in YHWH's Table (Part 8A)

I hope to continue to find deeper meaning in what YHWH is attempting to convey to us. So much to learn, so little time.

 

[daq]

A lot simpler than that I'm afraid.

I am a literal word for word type of reader and am constantly editing my kindle books.

The problem is, and most Gentile Christians either don't read the Torah or if they did they wouldn't see a problem.
But I'm sure you know the sacrifices to our GOD are to be clean ones. Even those who know the story of Noah realize that it was known back then.

However in the King James, (not sure about other versions but this is the upheld standard) it seems the translator wasn't well knowledgable of the Torah themselves or they would have caught this. They have corrected it in the NKJV but still there are many who still read the old version.

The Leviticus passage :6 And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest

8 And if she be not able to bring a lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons;

It's the same in Numbers except it doesn't mention the turtle doves, just two turtles.

Yeah, I guess in the first passage the reader is supposed to understand that the translators meant turtledove because of verse six: but that is bad form either way. Maybe it wasn't confusing four hundred years ago but it sure appears that way now.

 

[Lulav]

Uh-oh... : )

One thing you have surely revealed is the fact that translators (are essentially forced to) do more interpreting than they would like to admit.

and redacting.

From the NIV - Matthew 17
19 Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?”
20 He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”
[21] a (This has been removed - the 'a' explains it like this: Some manuscripts include here words similar to Mark 9:29.
22 When they came together in Galilee, he said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.
23 They will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised to life.” And the disciples were filled with grief.

--------------------------------------------------

From the NKJV
20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. 21 However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.”
22 Now while they were staying in Galilee, Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man is about to be betrayed into the hands of men, ........


Eliminating a great tool in spiritual warfare? Wonder who put that idea to leave it out?

 

[Lulav]

Yeah, I guess in the first passage the reader is supposed to understand that the translators meant turtledove because of verse six: but that is bad form either way. Maybe it wasn't confusing four hundred years ago but it sure appears that way now.

Yes, but the Numbers passage only has 'turtles', good thing this isn't being used today to make the right sacrifice .

 

[daq]

and redacting.

From the NIV - Matthew 17
19 Then the disciples came to Jesus in private and asked, “Why couldn’t we drive it out?”
20 He replied, “Because you have so little faith. Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you.”
[21] a (This has been removed - the 'a' explains it like this: Some manuscripts include here words similar to Mark 9:29.
22 When they came together in Galilee, he said to them, “The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.
23 They will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised to life.” And the disciples were filled with grief.

--------------------------------------------------

From the NKJV
20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. 21 However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.”
22 Now while they were staying in Galilee, Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man is about to be betrayed into the hands of men, ........


Eliminating a great tool in spiritual warfare? Wonder who put that idea to leave it out?

What if it is a secret? So the question becomes how can we know for sure whether or not the Mark 9:29 statement belongs in the Matthew passage? The Mark passage does not mention the mountain in the immediate context as does the Matthew passage.

Matthew 17:19-21 ASV
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast it out?
20 And he saith unto them, Because of your little faith: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
21 - - -

Mark 9:29 ASV
25 And when Jesus saw that a multitude came running together, he rebuked the unclean spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I command thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
26 And having cried out, and torn him much, he came out: and the boy became as one dead; insomuch that the more part said, He is dead.
27 But Jesus took him by the hand, and raised him up; and he arose.
28 And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, How is it that we could not cast it out?
29 And he said unto them, This kind can come out by nothing, save by prayer.

Therefore we must mesh these two passages by reading them together in order to obtain the greater message. Is the Matthew passage teaching that one with enough faith can move literal physical mountains? Surely not, for who has ever accomplished such a thing? However we now have much more background context than just these two passages. In fact the Gospel of Matthew comes to this topic once again, four chapters later, when the fig tree is withered.

Matthew 21:18-22 ASV
18 Now in the morning as he returned to the city, he hungered.
19 And seeing a fig tree by the way side, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only; and he saith unto it, Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward for ever. And immediately the fig tree withered away.
20 And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How did the fig tree immediately wither away?
21 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do what is done to the fig tree, but even if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou taken up and cast into the sea, it shall be done.
22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Ahah! we've struck gold, we've found a pearl of great price hidden in a field: for herein he mentions the mountain yet again and says that essentially the fig tree analogy is of the like nature, (in understanding), and herein the mountain is cast into the sea! That's prophetic language for sure. These things are being spoken in parables, proverbs, idioms, and types, (typology). Thus, indeed, the Mark 9:29 statement belongs in the Matthew 17 passage, (at Matthew 17:21). What therefore are these evil mountains? Just as nearly all things Biblical there is good and there is evil when it comes to typology, so just as there are the good and holy mountains of Elohim, (Horeb, Zion, etc., etc.), there are also seven evil mountains greater and mightier than Yisrael.

1) Revelation 19:10 (the Spirit of the prophecy is the Testimony of the Meshiah)
2) Revelation 8:8 = Matthew 21:21 = Henok 18:12/13
3) Revelation 17:9-10 = Genesis 8:5 = Henok 18:12/13
4) Genesis 8:5 ~ rashei = "tops" or "heads"???

This is an immersion, 1 Peter 3:20-21, and thus the evil mountains have heads, for the seven heads are seven mountains, and there are seven kings, (and the seventh is Legion), and the eighth is of the seven, (because he is the first, just as Tubal-Qain brings forth Qain).

Therefore Matthew 17:21 belongs in the text, whether it was there originally or not, (for it may have been a secret only meant to be expounded in another account, such as in Mark), for he speaks of supernal and spiritual things. Moreover these things speak of a great immersion, in the typology of the flood, and the sea is for the Kohanim to wash in, and thus, once the immersion is complete and the talmid is fully cleansed, there is no more need for the sea, (Revelation 21:1).

PS: of course, this also has to do with your current stars thread.

 

[HARK!]

From the NKJV
20 So Jesus said to them, “Because of your unbelief; for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you. 21 However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting.”
22 Now while they were staying in Galilee, Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man is about to be betrayed into the hands of men, ........


Eliminating a great tool in spiritual warfare? Wonder who put that idea to leave it out?

This verse was added later. It does not exist in the early manuscripts.

Matthew 17:21

MT/TR: However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting. CT: Verse omitted

List of major textual variants in the New Testament

This is a partial list of major textual variants in the New Testament, with a focus on differences between categories of New Testament manuscript. The Textus Receptus...

en.everybodywiki.com

Matthew 17:21

verse omitted — א* B Θ 0281 33 579 788 892* 1604 2680 253 ite,ff1 syrs,c,pal copsa,bo,mss,mae-2 ethms geomss Eusebius

Textual variants in the New Testament - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Lulav]

This verse was added later. It does not exist in the early manuscripts.

Matthew 17:21

MT/TR: However, this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting. CT: Verse omitted

List of major textual variants in the New Testament

This is a partial list of major textual variants in the New Testament, with a focus on differences between categories of New Testament manuscript. The Textus Receptus...

en.everybodywiki.com

Matthew 17:21

verse omitted — א* B Θ 0281 33 579 788 892* 1604 2680 253 ite,ff1 syrs,c,pal copsa,bo,mss,mae-2 ethms geomss Eusebius

Textual variants in the New Testament - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes, I did some more research, it seems that the copyists frequently inserted material derived from other Gospel accounts.

I also read where it was added to the 'fasting' part.

I can see and understand prayer being involved but the fasting part? If someone is being possessed by a demon do you really need to wait around while you fast to help them? Doesn't make sense to me.

 

[HARK!]

I can see and understand prayer being involved but the fasting part? If someone is being possessed by a demon do you really need to wait around while you fast to help them? Doesn't make sense to me.

I think that what the author meant, was that if the person with the demon prayed and fasted, that he could be healed.

I could be wrong about his intended message; but fasting can help with some problems.

 

[Lulav]

I think that what the author meant,

You mean Yeshua, right?

was that if the person with the demon prayed and fasted, that he could be healed.

Ahh, I didn't think about that but the passage though says that the disciples tried to get it to come out. AFAIK those under demon possession are not in the right mind to pray for themselves, or worry much about food.

I could be wrong about his intended message; but fasting can help with some problems.

Yes it can but see above.

I also think that it's interesting to contemplate what he meant by 'this kind'.


'kind' = genos
Usage: offspring, family, race, nation, kind.

 

[bèlla]

A lot simpler than that I'm afraid.

I am a literal word for word type of reader and am constantly editing my kindle books.

The problem is, and most Gentile Christians either don't read the Torah or if they did they wouldn't see a problem.

Word for word is best.

It’s impossible to appreciate the torah without a clear understanding of the priesthood. Until you grasp Melchizedek and its relation to us you’ll subscribe to the law is dead and related untruths.

~bella

 

[bèlla]

Ahh, I didn't think about that but the passage though says that the disciples tried to get it to come out. AFAIK those under demon possession are not in the right mind to pray for themselves, or worry much about food.

They’re lucid in spite of the invasion. I’d liken it to schizophrenia. There’s two parties within.

I also think that it's interesting to contemplate what he meant by 'this kind'.


'kind' = genos
Usage: offspring, family, race, nation, kind.

This kind of spirit. Some can be rebuked and will flee. Others require prayer and fasting from the person engaging with them. It raises your frequency (spiritual).

What kind of spirit? That’s addressed in Genesis and Jasher. When they were rounded up a portion was left.

~bella

 

[Lulav]

For someone interested in the Matthew 17:21 conundrum, here's a good source to look into

Why is Matthew 17:21 Omitted from the Updated American Standard Version of the Holy Scriptures?​

 

[Lulav]

They’re lucid in spite of the invasion. I’d liken it to schizophrenia. There’s two parties within.

Yes, in some cases I guess, but what sticks in my mind is the one in the graveyard that had the 'legion' within him.

This kind of spirit. Some can be rebuked and will flee. Others require prayer and fasting from the person engaging with them. It raises your frequency (spiritual).

Interesting, I get where you're coming from.

What kind of spirit? That’s addressed in Genesis and Jasher. When they were rounded up a portion was left.

~bella

That's why I zeroed in on the 'kind'. So that tells us not all react or don't respond to just speaking/commanding them to come out.

 

[Lulav]

What if it is a secret? So the question becomes how can we know for sure whether or not the Mark 9:29 statement belongs in the Matthew passage? The Mark passage does not mention the mountain in the immediate context as does the Matthew passage.

Matthew 17:19-21 ASV
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast it out?
20 And he saith unto them, Because of your little faith: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
21 - - -

Mark 9:29 ASV
25 And when Jesus saw that a multitude came running together, he rebuked the unclean spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I command thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
26 And having cried out, and torn him much, he came out: and the boy became as one dead; insomuch that the more part said, He is dead.
27 But Jesus took him by the hand, and raised him up; and he arose.
28 And when he was come into the house, his disciples asked him privately, How is it that we could not cast it out?
29 And he said unto them, This kind can come out by nothing, save by prayer.

Therefore we must mesh these two passages by reading them together in order to obtain the greater message. Is the Matthew passage teaching that one with enough faith can move literal physical mountains? Surely not, for who has ever accomplished such a thing? However we now have much more background context than just these two passages. In fact the Gospel of Matthew comes to this topic once again, four chapters later, when the fig tree is withered.

Matthew 21:18-22 ASV
18 Now in the morning as he returned to the city, he hungered.
19 And seeing a fig tree by the way side, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only; and he saith unto it, Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward for ever. And immediately the fig tree withered away.
20 And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How did the fig tree immediately wither away?
21 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do what is done to the fig tree, but even if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou taken up and cast into the sea, it shall be done.
22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Ahah! we've struck gold, we've found a pearl of great price hidden in a field: for herein he mentions the mountain yet again and says that essentially the fig tree analogy is of the like nature, (in understanding), and herein the mountain is cast into the sea! That's prophetic language for sure. These things are being spoken in parables, proverbs, idioms, and types, (typology). Thus, indeed, the Mark 9:29 statement belongs in the Matthew 17 passage, (at Matthew 17:21). What therefore are these evil mountains? Just as nearly all things Biblical there is good and there is evil when it comes to typology, so just as there are the good and holy mountains of Elohim, (Horeb, Zion, etc., etc.), there are also seven evil mountains greater and mightier than Yisrael.

1) Revelation 19:10 (the Spirit of the prophecy is the Testimony of the Meshiah)
2) Revelation 8:8 = Matthew 21:21 = Henok 18:12/13
3) Revelation 17:9-10 = Genesis 8:5 = Henok 18:12/13
4) Genesis 8:5 ~ rashei = "tops" or "heads"???

This is an immersion, 1 Peter 3:20-21, and thus the evil mountains have heads, for the seven heads are seven mountains, and there are seven kings, (and the seventh is Legion), and the eighth is of the seven, (because he is the first, just as Tubal-Qain brings forth Qain).

Therefore Matthew 17:21 belongs in the text, whether it was there originally or not, (for it may have been a secret only meant to be expounded in another account, such as in Mark), for he speaks of supernal and spiritual things. Moreover these things speak of a great immersion, in the typology of the flood, and the sea is for the Kohanim to wash in, and thus, once the immersion is complete and the talmid is fully cleansed, there is no more need for the sea, (Revelation 21:1).

PS: of course, this also has to do with your current stars thread.

Very heavy.

I think one of those mountain tops revealed after the flood was Mt. Hermon. There's alot about that mountain that most folks don't have any idea about. I believe it was the Mountain of the transfiguration. Which at the bottom was the gates of hell or the temple of 'Pan'. Those who came down upon that mountain were the cause of the flood.

• Mount Hermon · Elevation 9,232 ft - it is twice as high as all the other top 10 mountains in Israel.
  
  
• Ararat 16,854 ft

 

[bèlla]

Yes, in some cases I guess, but what sticks in my mind is the one in the graveyard that had the 'legion' within him.

There’s different stages of oppression. Spiritual vexation is always layered. There’s rarely one entity involved. In this case, they’ve taken control and subdued the will. What some term mounting (like a horse). The legion is a group of spirits. The higher the spirit the more oppressive it is to the host (person).

I’d ponder it with legal rights in mind. Spirits cannot infect you without cause. There must be a door. Something that occurred that provides license for infestation. Reference the passage where Yeshua warns the man not to sin against lest a worse thing happen. He explains it here:

When the unclean spirit has gone out of a person, it passes through waterless places seeking rest, but finds none. Then it says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when it comes, it finds the house empty, swept, and put in order. Then it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and dwell there, and the last state of that person is worse than the first.

Interesting, I get where you're coming from.

That's why I zeroed in on the 'kind'. So that tells us not all react or don't respond to just speaking/commanding them to come out.

No. Remember Paul’s words:

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

He distinguishes them for a reason. If you view it hierarchically with power in mind it makes sense. Some situations require angelic involvement.

Look at Daniel:

The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days, but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I was left there with the kings of Persia.

He’s addressing territorial and ruling spirits. There’s a ruling spirit for a country and territorial ones assigned for each city/town. Marine spirits for bodies of water. If you want to unpack it study the marine kingdom. The demonic activity mentioned in the bible will be seen in a clearer light. You’ll understand the correlation to societal problems and what’s behind them spiritually.

For example, the Russian and Ukrainian war is Leviathan. That’s the strongman you pray against.

Or how can someone enter a strong man's house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man? Then indeed he may plunder his house.

Understanding HaSatan’s kingdom is important. You can stand against your experiences and things unleashed in the heavenlies. Praying strategically strengthens your warfare.

Yule is coming. What does it mean? What do they want to accomplish? What is the spiritual frequency for the present month (Kislev) in relation to it? There should be an offensive stance. Joseph brings the double portion. What are we trying to multiply? We counter the negative elements unleashed for Yule defensively. The pair are always a factor (offense and defense).

~bella

 

[daq]

Very heavy.

I think one of those mountain tops revealed after the flood was Mt. Hermon. There's alot about that mountain that most folks don't have any idea about. I believe it was the Mountain of the transfiguration. Which at the bottom was the gates of hell or the temple of 'Pan'. Those who came down upon that mountain were the cause of the flood.

• Mount Hermon · Elevation 9,232 ft - it is twice as high as all the other top 10 mountains in Israel.
  
  
• Ararat 16,854 ft

Seven Fingers:

Matthew 28:2-4 ASV
2 And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled away the stone, and sat upon it.
3 His appearance was as lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4 and for fear of him the watchers did quake, and became as dead men.

1) A mighty angel - Matthew 28:2-4.
2) A young man seated at the right hand side - Mark 16:5.
3-4) Two men in brilliant garments - Luke 24:4.
5-6) Two angels: one at the head and one at the feet - John 20:12.
7) John 20:14-16.

Luke 11:20, Leviticus 16:14-19, Revelation 15/16, Mark 16:9.

 

[Lulav]

Seven Fingers:

Matthew 28:2-4 ASV
2 And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled away the stone, and sat upon it.
3 His appearance was as lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4 and for fear of him the watchers did quake, and became as dead men.

Do you not think the 'watchers' were the guards asked of Pilate to guard the tomb. I'm wondering because it says they became as dead MEN.

1) A mighty angel - Matthew 28:2-4.
2) A young man seated at the right hand side - Mark 16:5.
3-4) Two men in brilliant garments - Luke 24:4.
5-6) Two angels: one at the head and one at the feet - John 20:12.
7) John 20:14-16.

Luke 11:20, Leviticus 16:14-19, Revelation 15/16, Mark 16:9.

I'm sorry, I don't get what you are saying about seven fingers? Please don't be so cryptic, It's hard on this old lady's brain!

 

[daq]

Do you not think the 'watchers' were the guards asked of Pilate to guard the tomb. I'm wondering because it says they became as dead MEN.

I didn't mean it that way but simply quoted the ASV because I believe it to generally be more accurate than the KJV. I looked, the word there is not grigori/gregori, (used in Greek for the fallen Watchers), but this is Matthew, and we don't know who first translated it from Hebrew/Aramaic into Greek or what might have been in the original text.

I'm sorry, I don't get what you are saying about seven fingers? Please don't be so cryptic, It's hard on this old lady's brain!

Seven fingers, seven strokes, seven times, and Rev 15/16 is the atonement: but a mortal Kohen does not have seven fingers on his hand to sprinkle the fury of the blood of the passion, (Grk thumos, passion, fury, not the same as orge, wrath). Sorry I need to be cryptic about such things but that's the only way to get them across sometimes, (especially if and when that's how they are presented in the scripture).

Revelation 15:1
1 και ειδον αλλο σημειον εν τω ουρανω μεγα και θαυμαστον αγγελους επτα εχοντας πληγας επτα τας εσχατας οτι εν αυταις ετελεσθη ο θυμος του θεου

Most translations appear to render plege herein as plague, (plegas, plural, rendered as plagues), but it also means a stroke, and in this case it would be seven strokes, (Lev 16:14, etc., etc.), and thus we have seven strokes full of the thumos-fury-passion of Elohim administered by the seven holy Malakim. These are the seven fingers of Elohim, and they are the seven eyes, and the seven horns, and the seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, the seven Spirits sent forth into all His land.

 

[Emun]

Ran into this while looking something up about the crucifixion.

Matthew 28:1

Ὀψὲ δὲ σαββάτων, τῇ ἐπιφωσκούσῃ εἰς μίαν σαββάτων, ἦλθεν Μαριὰμ
After then the Sabbaths it being dawn towards first (of the week) Came Mary

ἡ Μαγδαληνὴ καὶ ἡ ἄλλη Μαρία θεωρῆσαι τὸν τάφον.
Magdelene and the other Mary to see the tomb.

How is it that the same word is translated first as SabbathS (Sabbaton)
and the second time it's used in the same sentence it's translated as 'of the week'?

A Greek word can have several meanings. And depending on the context, it is decided which meaning is the most appropriate.

 

[Lulav]

A "Shabbat" is any day of work cessation, a day of rest.

So all 8 recurring holy days (Passover, First Fruits, Shavuot, etc) are "Shabbats" because each are identified as days of "no ordinary work" Therefore a day of rest.

Now regarding the three "special" Shabbats, called "Shabbat Shabbaton" These "special" Shabbats are special because of their position as the "7th" in a sequence, having to do with their position in a series.

So we have these three

- The Weekly Sabbath is the 7th day of the week.
- Yom Kippur is the 7th of the named High Holy days of the year - the only day on which atonement is offered.
- The agricultural year, the 7th year is the year of rest for the land called the Shemitta - the Land rest.