Revelation 12: what do the 3.5 years represent?

[eleos1954]

Hey eleos1954,
Please be aware that the Daniel 9 commentary version has so many problems, that it's a USELESS "ancient-fulfillment" portent *. Neither the Scriptural specifics nor the Historical assignments work.

As such, you might wish to consider obeying the angel's guidance in 12:4 & 9.

*

1. Daniel 9:2 specifies "years".
2. Daniel 9:2 does not use the simple shama to perceive the prophecy of Jeremiah as though reading that book, but rather the Solomon biyn to perceive the prophecy in the BOOKS.
3. Per "Young": Daniel 9:25"going forth of the word" does NOT have the inference of any edict from man, but rather and edict directly from GOD.
4. Per "Newton": The Daniel 9:25 seven is one duration with an anointed one "coming" after that duration.
5. Per "Newton": The Daniel 9:25-26 sixty-two weeks is a second duration with a second anointed one who is cut off after that duration.
6. Per "Young, Keil, & Kliefoth": The "weeks" are the inconcise Masculine gender text, which are specifically NOT 490 years.
7. The second anointed one who is cut off is not killed upon the sixty-two, but simply AFTER.
8. The destroyer does not come at the beginning, middle, or upon the end of the seventieth"week", but "shall come" after the seventieth "week".
9. The seven, the sixty-two, the seventieth, and after the seventieth are chronologically connected, with NO ~2,000 year gaps.
10. This prophecy is shut up and sealed until the time of the end, which is approximate to 1948.
​

Thanks,
DaDad

1. Daniel 9:2 specifies "years". Yes it does -

Daniel 9:2

1 In the first year of Darius son of Xerxes, a Mede by descent, who was made ruler over the kingdom of the Chaldeans. 2 In the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, understood from the sacred books , according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, that the desolation of Jerusalem would last seventy years.

No disrespect to the people you listed above, nor to you as well, but I don't find their names (in jest) in the Holy Bible. The Lord will lead me and teach me through His Word and not the words of others. I do seek diligently in His Word and will continue to do so until I am no longer or He returns. The Year/day principle. You and others believe differently .... so yeah we won't be on the same page on a lot of things. But don't think I haven't looked at them and considered them ;o)

May the Lord lead us and teach us all as we pursue the Truth in His Word, in the name of our blessed savior Jesus. Amen & God Bless

 

[DaDad]

... I don't find their names ...

John Walvoord, of Dallas Theological Seminary, wrote a unique book titled "Daniel, The Key To Prophetic Revelation". This book is different from all the other books that I've seen on the subject. What's different is that Walvoord researched the best and brightest experts in Bible Prophecy, and shared their perspectives. And where these experts observed various Scriptural clues, they often were unable to explain them, but noted their Scriptural significance. For example:

Per Montgomery:

The history of the exegesis of the 70 Weeks is the Dismal Swamp of O. T. criticism. The difficulties that beset any "rationalistic" treatment of the figures are great enough, but the critics on this side of the fence do not agree among themselves; but the trackless wilderness of assumptions and theories and efforts to obtain an exact chronology fitting into the the history of Salvation, after these 2,000 years of infinitely varied interpretations, would seem to preclude any use of the 70 Weeks for the determination of a definite prophetic chronology. ... "

John Wolvoord, "Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation", Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217​

Per Young, in reference to the "going forth of the word":

This phrase has reference to the issuance of the word, not from a Persian ruler but from God. Young goes on to point out that the expression the commandment, which he insists is better translated “a word” (Heb. Dābār; cf. 2Ch 30:5) is also found is Daniel 9:23 for a word from God.”

John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 224​

Per Young, with Keil and Kliefoth:

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”

John Wolvoord, "Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation", Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217​

I'm not here to change your mind. I'm simply informing you that what you've been told is false according to both Scripture and History. And it also contradicts the angel's instructions:

Daniel 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
...
9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.​

But if you like what you believe, then please do.

Thanks,
DaDad

 

[ToServe]

The New Covenant Age (which, when the Bible was written, was the "age to come") has NO end. Where do you see more than two "ages" mentioned in the Bible, because I only see two:


"This age" and the "age to come."

Matthew 12:32 (NKJV) "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
The word "come" at the end of the verse is the Greek word mello, which means: " about to be." We could translate this, the "age about to come" (in the first century). Many think that the age to come will be a sinless age; not according to this verse. Sin against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven in that age, referring to the age of the New Covenant, our present age. We see here that both of these ages have sin in them.

Ephesians 1:21 (NKJV) far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come.
Here again, we see the two ages. So, the New Testament speaks of two ages, "this age" and "the age to come." The understanding of these two ages and when they changed is fundamental to interpreting the Bible. ~ David B Curtis

But please do wait one moment before I respond back to this latest post of yours. I need to completely address the post in question in your opening remark within the thread as I am certain that you will not deal with my replies on the basis of merit, but rather that you will appeal to conjectures outside of the focal point of concern that I am presenting as a consequence to the 70AD Full Preterist narrative.

When Jesus declares the end will come, he is preempting the discussion in that he is foretelling his very reign to the end as people are being made disciples for him under the new covenant temple construct. As he stated the Harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. This end Jesus speaks off is not the Old Covenant Temple construct whereby its fruits were made null and void post Cross of Christ. The Old Covenant Temple was the symbol of the drying up of the Fig tree when Jesus rode in on a colt (New Covenant Church) and had abandoned the mother donkey that symbolised the Old Covenant Church. Therefore as far as God is concerned only one Temple Sacrifice construct existed for 40 years leading up to 70AD.

Facts are that there were no Old Covenant fruits post-Pentecost and that the New Temple made obsolete the Old Temple in that it was spiritually destroyed 40 years before the Romans burned it down because God rejected their oblations and sacrifices within it. The Discipleship that Jesus was alluding to was within the New Temple Context as he had highlighted to the Samaritan Woman at The Well where he said no longer will believers look towards the Temple in Jerusalem to Worship God for God only approves worship under the New Temple Construct.

John is instructed for the second time to preach yet again to the many Gentile nations after the fact of 70AD, in fact, decades after.

14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—

The Abomination of Desolation must, therefore, be in context to the New Temple construct and not the Old as disciples post-Pentecost are being made under the New Temple construct. The end spoken off is in regards to the New Temple and not the Old and this is the big difference why the Abomination that is brought into the Temple in the Last Days is within the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

The end must encompass the entire New Covenant from the Cross until Christ reigns and accomplishes what he set out to do through his Cross by accounting for all who are to be written in the Book of Life, then as Paul states Jesus will become the subject of the Father and that God will be ALL in ALL, the End.

Jesus is alluding to the end as the full complement of disciples are enlisted for him within the Book of Life and that is being done within the New Temple Construct and so he will continue to reign until he defeats the last enemy death and when he does he then can claim mission accomplished by now being made subject to the Father as Paul states Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

Obviously when John is instructed to preach yet again to the many Gentile nations, it would only be conducive to do so when the near and present threat of war leading up to 70AD and decades after the fact has all but diminished and then he would time his instruction to the Apostolic heads to come out of hiding and to continue their mission yet again.

This is not happening when all hell is breaking out from 68 to 75 AD as this 7-year war has people running for their lives and dying in numbers and is not conducive to hearing any good news and what good news might be good news during this time?

It is obvious that the book of Revelation and the letters sent to the heads of the 7 Churches in Asia Minor were sent many decades after the fact when all is settled and factional fighting has all but ended giving way for trade and with the trading merchants the missionaries who accompanied them on the routes to China and India and Mongolia (Russia). You see the world pre 80/90 AD did not encompass the East and hence it did not encompass the whole world as the Full Preterists false presupposition to their 70 AD narrative is exposed as dubious at beas.

The Resurrection of the Dead

12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he “has put everything under his feet.” c Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

The symbol of the two witnesses must point to the entire New Covenant Great Harvest within the New Temple Construct, that is the 3.5 days and in making disciples for Christ. When this Temple starts to bring in abominations, then this points to the end where Satan comes out for the final time before the final Judgement of the Dead to deceive the nations in the Batlle of Gog and Magog and this spiritual battle is the death of the Church's commission and yet we are told she finishes her testimony in time before the beast of the bottomless Pitt takes her out of the way.

Since we can see that the Church's Commission was being restarted by John and it is highly unlikely that Satan halted the Commission, yet we are told on the contrary the woman was given the wings of an eagle to spread the gospel far and wide to new lands and continents that opened up for her in the East like Russia (Mongolia), China and India.

The consequence of the Full Preterist 70 AD narrative where the end is placed is that it removes the power of the Cross, removes the power of the Holy Spirit, denies that Jesus continues to reign today, does not necessitate the preaching of the Gospel, reports that Satan no longer can cause people to spiritually die, removes the hope in a bodily resurrection, removes the Commission of the Church, Jesus is now the subject of the Father, the books are opened and the Final Judgement is past.

So what sort of faith does one appeal to when Full Preterist 70AD narrative removes the above hope in Christ, but by no stretch the complete list?

The 70AD narrative is the enemy of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and has no historicity to how the Gospel has been spreading for the last 1900 years. In fact, the 70 AD narrative purpose is to destroy the faith and make null and void the Commission of the Holy Spirit by declaring that we are living in Christ's never-ending New Covenant Age Millenium Reign and this my friends cannot be further away from the truth.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Which brings us to verse 12, blessed he that waitheth, which is remain faithful, to the 1335th day - from when the abomination of desolation is setup. The 1335th day is the Day that Jesus returns to planet earth. To end the 70th week, the 2520 day 7 years.

So subtracting 2520-1335= 1185. as the day the abomination of desolation will be placed in the temple.

And from day 1185, 1290 days later - the sixth seal will take place of the cosmos parting and the world seeing Jesus before the throne of God. day 1185 +1290 = day 2475. The sixth seal day.

And from day 2475, 45 days later as the armies assemble at Armageddon and head down to Jerusalem - Jesus descends to heaven, in great power and glory, with the saints. And Jesus passes judgment on those armies.

Thank you for taking the time to explain. When you throw out a number like 75 days, it would be better if you could provide a scripture so I will know if these things are scripture or if you calculated.

As for the time of Jesus coming 45 days after the sixth seal. I don't think that will work because of these verses.

Rev 9
1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

We know that people are being stung for 5 months and we know this happens after the 6th seal.

 

[Douggg]

Thank you for taking the time to explain. When you throw out a number like 75 days, it would be better if you could provide a scripture so I will know if these things are scripture or if you calculated.

I agree and I will try to do better.

 

[ToServe]

But please do wait one moment before I respond back to this latest post of yours. I need to completely address the post in question in your opening remark within the thread as I am certain that you will not deal with my replies on the basis of merit, but rather that you will appeal to conjectures outside of the focal point of concern that I am presenting as a consequence to the 70AD Full Preterist narrative.

When Jesus declares the end will come, he is preempting the discussion in that he is foretelling his very reign to the end as people are being made disciples for him under the new covenant temple construct. As he stated the Harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. This end Jesus speaks off is not the Old Covenant Temple construct whereby its fruits were made null and void post Cross of Christ. The Old Covenant Temple was the symbol of the drying up of the Fig tree when Jesus rode in on a colt (New Covenant Church) and had abandoned the mother donkey that symbolised the Old Covenant Church. Therefore as far as God is concerned only one Temple Sacrifice construct existed for 40 years leading up to 70AD.

Facts are that there were no Old Covenant fruits post-Pentecost and that the New Temple made obsolete the Old Temple in that it was spiritually destroyed 40 years before the Romans burned it down because God rejected their oblations and sacrifices within it. The Discipleship that Jesus was alluding to was within the New Temple Context as he had highlighted to the Samaritan Woman at The Well where he said no longer will believers look towards the Temple in Jerusalem to Worship God for God only approves worship under the New Temple Construct.

John is instructed for the second time to preach yet again to the many Gentile nations after the fact of 70AD, in fact, decades after.

14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—

The Abomination of Desolation must, therefore, be in context to the New Temple construct and not the Old as disciples post-Pentecost are being made under the New Temple construct. The end spoken off is in regards to the New Temple and not the Old and this is the big difference why the Abomination that is brought into the Temple in the Last Days is within the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

The end must encompass the entire New Covenant from the Cross until Christ reigns and accomplishes what he set out to do through his Cross by accounting for all who are to be written in the Book of Life, then as Paul states Jesus will become the subject of the Father and that God will be ALL in ALL, the End.

Jesus is alluding to the end as the full complement of disciples are enlisted for him within the Book of Life and that is being done within the New Temple Construct and so he will continue to reign until he defeats the last enemy death and when he does he then can claim mission accomplished by now being made subject to the Father as Paul states Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

Obviously when John is instructed to preach yet again to the many Gentile nations, it would only be conducive to do so when the near and present threat of war leading up to 70AD and decades after the fact has all but diminished and then he would time his instruction to the Apostolic heads to come out of hiding and to continue their mission yet again.

This is not happening when all hell is breaking out from 68 to 75 AD as this 7-year war has people running for their lives and dying in numbers and is not conducive to hearing any good news and what good news might be good news during this time?

It is obvious that the book of Revelation and the letters sent to the heads of the 7 Churches in Asia Minor were sent many decades after the fact when all is settled and factional fighting has all but ended giving way for trade and with the trading merchants the missionaries who accompanied them on the routes to China and India and Mongolia (Russia). You see the world pre 80/90 AD did not encompass the East and hence it did not encompass the whole world as the Full Preterists false presupposition to their 70 AD narrative is exposed as dubious at beas.

The Resurrection of the Dead



The symbol of the two witnesses must point to the entire New Covenant Great Harvest within the New Temple Construct, that is the 3.5 days and in making disciples for Christ. When this Temple starts to bring in abominations, then this points to the end where Satan comes out for the final time before the final Judgement of the Dead to deceive the nations in the Batlle of Gog and Magog and this spiritual battle is the death of the Church's commission and yet we are told she finishes her testimony in time before the beast of the bottomless Pitt takes her out of the way.

Since we can see that the Church's Commission was being restarted by John and it is highly unlikely that Satan halted the Commission, yet we are told on the contrary the woman was given the wings of an eagle to spread the gospel far and wide to new lands and continents that opened up for her in the East like Russia (Mongolia), China and India.

The consequence of the Full Preterist 70 AD narrative where the end is placed is that it removes the power of the Cross, removes the power of the Holy Spirit, denies that Jesus continues to reign today, does not necessitate the preaching of the Gospel, reports that Satan no longer can cause people to spiritually die, removes the hope in a bodily resurrection, removes the Commission of the Church, Jesus is now the subject of the Father, the books are opened and the Final Judgement is past.

So what sort of faith does one appeal to when Full Preterist 70AD narrative removes the above hope in Christ, but by no stretch the complete list?

The 70AD narrative is the enemy of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and has no historicity to how the Gospel has been spreading for the last 1900 years. In fact, the 70 AD narrative purpose is to destroy the faith and make null and void the Commission of the Holy Spirit by declaring that we are living in Christ's never-ending New Covenant Age Millenium Reign and this my friends cannot be further away from the truth.

In addition to my above reply, the common guiding moral compass for both ages mentioned below is within the New Testament Holy Spirit Temple construct.

This age Jesus alludes to is the NT Temple context of the Holy Spirit as Jesus ministry is the first 3.5 days in the middle of the 70th week where he confirms his NT Covenant with many.

So Jesus is speaking to his Holy Spirit Commissioned Church, the symbol of the colt of the mother donkey that he triumphantly rode into Jerusalem.

So this age implies Holy Spirit Temple Age and the Age even to come when the books are finally penned (opened).

In Jewish culture when we say this Age we imply a temporal moment we live in that is not what we have our sights and hope in. Yet the age to come points to a permanent life where Paul alludes to being our permanent house after which our temporal earthly house is destroyed.

Since the Abomination of the OT Temple was the unforgivable sin in the Old Covenant, the NT Temple is that of the Holy Spirit and as Jesus says to the recipients of his Holy Spirit Church as the cornerstone of the Temple that the unforgivable sin is against the desecration of the NT Temple, where Jesus is pointing to the abomination that desecrates shall not be forgiven.

This concept of the unforgivable sin cannot be apply to those under the Old Testament Temple Construct unless they are literally desecrating the Temple itself by an outward fleshly form of vandalism and publically speaking out against the Temple building itself.

Matthew 12:32 (NKJV) "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

 

[ToServe]

In addition to my above reply, the common guiding moral compass for both ages mentioned below is within the New Testament Holy Spirit Temple construct.

This age Jesus alludes to is the NT Temple context of the Holy Spirit as Jesus ministry is the first 3.5 days in the middle of the 70th week where he confirms his NT Covenant with many.

So Jesus is speaking to his Holy Spirit Commissioned Church, the symbol of the colt of the mother donkey that he triumphantly rode into Jerusalem.

So this age implies Holy Spirit Temple Age and the Age even to come when the books are finally penned (opened).

In Jewish culture when they say this Age they imply a temporal moment we live in, that is not what we have our sights and hopes in. Yet the age to come points to a permanent life where Paul alludes to being our permanent house after which our temporal earthly house is destroyed.

Since the Abomination of the OT Temple was the unforgivable sin in the Old Covenant, the NT Temple is that of the Holy Spirit and as Jesus says to the recipients of his Holy Spirit Church as the cornerstone of the Temple, that the unforgivable sin is against the desecration of the NT Temple, where Jesus is pointing to the abomination that desecrates shall not be forgiven.

This concept of the unforgivable sin cannot be applied to those under the Old Testament Temple Construct unless they are literally desecrating the Temple itself by an outward fleshly form of vandalism and or publically speaking out against the Temple building itself.

Since Jesus mentions the Holy Spirit to the recipients of his Church, then the NT Age temporal is this Age and the Permanent Age that we hope for is what guarantees us in this Age what is to come after it ends, this Age as far as Christ was concerned is the Holy Spirit Temple construct age.

21Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us,22set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

The Permanent Age to come is after biological death that guareenteess us our inheritance as Testators (Hebrews 9:15-17,27) after our earthly house is dissolved and this underpins our redemption of the Age post NT guaranteeing Age of the Holy Spirit Seal of God, meaning promise.

This Age is NT temporal and the Age to come is our redemption in the Permanent eternal (never ending) Age to come.

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

So this Age temporal and the Age to come permanent is within the Holy Spirit Temple Construct. Jesus within his Holy Spirit 3.5 day ministry is not speaking of the Old Covenant Temple construct.

So the 70AD Full Preterist narrative is completely bogus and is a concoction of ill conceived misconceptions without any regard to the multitude of exegetical and theological consequences that are too numerous to talk about at length.

 

[Douggg]

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

We know that people are being stung for 5 months and we know this happens after the 6th seal.

I don't know why you would think after the cosmos parts and the world sees Jesus before the throne of God - of the sixth seal.

But I view the the five months of the tormenting locust as being soon after Satan is cast down to earth because of the war in heaven in Revelation 12:7-9 just past the mid-point of the 7 years (the 1260days of Revelation 12:6).

My reasoning is that at the beginning of Revelation 9, John sees a star falling from heaven, being given the key to bottomless pit to open it.

1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Why would Satan being cast down to earth be given the key to the bottomless pit? The bible doesn't say why. imo, it is because since Satan and his angels are going to be made a terror no more when Jesus returns to earth - them, the demons and angels, locked in the bottomless pit are going to be included.

It is going to be a terrible time on earth, when they are released. The five months is the time that they have to torment men, why five months is not explained - only that they were given, allowed, five months. Perhaps that is the lifespan of the locust, or perhaps they die off because of one of the other plagues such as waters becoming poisoned.

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
_______________________________________________________________________________

in short, I am seeing the 5 months of the tormenting locust to begin when Satan is cast down to earth, just past the 1260 day mid-point of the 7 years. Not near the end of the 7 years, when the sixth seal takes place.

 

[Choose Wisely]

I don't know why you would think after the cosmos parts and the world sees Jesus before the throne of God - of the sixth seal.

But I view the the five months of the tormenting locust as being soon after Satan is cast down to earth because of the war in heaven in Revelation 12:7-9 just past the mid-point of the 7 years (the 1260days of Revelation 12:6).

My reasoning is that at the beginning of Revelation 9, John sees a star falling from heaven, being given the key to bottomless pit to open it.

1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Why would Satan being cast down to earth be given the key to the bottomless pit? The bible doesn't say why. imo, it is because since Satan and his angels are going to be made a terror no more when Jesus returns to earth - them, the demons and angels, locked in the bottomless pit are going to be included.

It is going to be a terrible time on earth, when they are released. The five months is the time that they have to torment men, why five months is not explained - only that they were given, allowed, five months. Perhaps that is the lifespan of the locust, or perhaps they die off because of one of the other plagues such as waters becoming poisoned.

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
_______________________________________________________________________________

in short, I am seeing the 5 months of the tormenting locust to begin when Satan is cast down to earth, just past the 1260 day mid-point of the 7 years. Not near the end of the 7 years, when the sixth seal takes place.

I can not agree with what you are saying. When the powers of the heavens are shaken and the stars fall from heaven is when Satan is cast down. That is at the 6th seal. The star that falls from heaven by itself during the wrath of God, with the key to the pit, is most likely is an unfallen angel.......no pun intedended.

 

[sparow]

Revelation 12 in chronological order:

Israel gives rise to the messiah; Jesus then ascends to heaven
Revelation 12:1-5 And a great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. 2She was pregnant and was crying out in birth pains and the agony of giving birth. 3And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. 4His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it. 5She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rulea all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne,

After Jesus is caught up to God and to his throne, receives his kingdom, and is given authority, Satan is thrown down out of heaven. The dragon then pursues the woman (Israel)
Revelation 12:7-13 7Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought back, 8but he was defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brothersb has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. 11And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. 12Therefore, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!”13And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.

Israel is nourished for 3.5 years after Christ is caught up to God. Satan, furious of this, goes off to make war with Israel's offspring.
Revelation 12:6,14-17 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1,260 days. But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle so that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. 15The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with a flood. 16But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

What is the significance of this 3.5 years?

It seems to me that Rev 12:6 and 12:14 are talking about the same period; but I do not see 3.5 as an interval measured by time, but rather an indefinite period constituting the second half of confirming the covenant, after His being cut off in the middle. The 1260 years of 12:6 are confusing because the alleged Christian Church is persecuted both during the Papal rule which lasted 1260 years and the 1260 years from the first Muslim shrine on the Temple mount and the six day war. The 3.5 years could refer to the second advent which coincides with the 3.5 years of the eighth beast.

Rev 12. stretches between the first and second advent and is an underlay; other parts that stretch between the first and second advent need to be overlayed in order to get the whole picture; I have never been able to do this fluently.

Jesus had all authority in heaven and earth before He was raised up; Matt 28:18. Also He was King and the Kingdom was where He was; among the Pharisees on one occasion.

 

[iamlamad]

It seems to me that Rev 12:6 and 12:14 are talking about the same period; but I do not see 3.5 as an interval measured by time, but rather an indefinite period constituting the second half of confirming the covenant, after His being cut off in the middle. The 1260 years of 12:6 are confusing because the alleged Christian Church is persecuted both during the Papal rule which lasted 1260 years and the 1260 years from the first Muslim shrine on the Temple mount and the six day war. The 3.5 years could refer to the second advent which coincides with the 3.5 years of the eighth beast.

Rev 12. stretches between the first and second advent and is an underlay; other parts that stretch between the first and second advent need to be overlayed in order to get the whole picture; I have never been able to do this fluently.

Jesus had all authority in heaven and earth before He was raised up; Matt 28:18. Also He was King and the Kingdom was where He was; among the Pharisees on one occasion.

Of course the 1260 years will be confusing, because God meant it as 1260 days, exactly as it is written! Surely you have noticed that 1260 days, 42 months, and time, times and half of time are all speaking of the same period of time?

The truth is, Jesus wanted to introduce John to the Dragon, and in particular what the Dragon would be doing during the last half of the week. (The Dragon is mentioned 32 times.) But He CHOSE to show John what the Dragon did when He was a young child - that is how the Dragon used King Herod to attempt to kill him as a child. The first five verses are written as a parenthesis.

 

[iamlamad]

I can not agree with what you are saying. When the powers of the heavens are shaken and the stars fall from heaven is when Satan is cast down. That is at the 6th seal. The star that falls from heaven by itself during the wrath of God, with the key to the pit, is most likely is an unfallen angel.......no pun intedended.

What you are suggesting is physically impossible. You are not getting the whole picture. God had a book in his right hand, sealed with 7 seals. Stop and think: what is the purpose of the seals?

The seals are to prevent the book from being opened except by a very special person - and it HAD to be a man. No angel could take the book. NO ONE could take that book until someone could be found that could raise from the dead under their own power and become the Redeemer.

Move ahead in time, and Jesus was found worthy. He took the book and began one at a time breaking or loosing the seals. He opened or loosed the first five seals as soon as He ascended. But at seal five we see a long time of waiting. The book cannot at this time be opened, because two more seals remain.

Finally, at the proper time (John seeing into the future in this vision) the 6th seal will be opened. The book still cannot be opened because there is one seal remaining. You seem to want to open the book here!

After the 6th seal (perhaps the ten days of Awe in between) the 7th seal will be opened. NOW, the purpose of the seals is over and done with. Now the book can be opened - to reveal seven angels ready to receive seven trumpets.

Therefore, what you are suggesting is just not possible and cannot be the intent of the Author. We really don't know what the "stars" are that fall. It could be a meteor shower. It could be God sent angels down. We just don't know. Neither do we know what it means that "the heavens departed as a scroll." The stars we see did not disappear for they are mentioned later as being dimmed.

What we can be absolutely sure of is that nothing past the 7th seal can refer back to the 6th seal.

Now we must consider TIMING. It seems you ignore that aspect. Did you never see the movie of the time machine? He placed a small model of his time machine on the table, and it disappeared! Those watching asked where it went. He said it went no where - was still in the very same position - but went into the future in TIME. If I remember right, they came back the next day and it suddenly appeared back on the table.

When we consider TIME: the 6h seal will be opened before the 7th seal and it is the 7th seal that offically starts the 70th week. The war in heaven is at the midpoint of the week - so the 6th seal and the war will be separated by over 3.5 years.

It is OK of you don't believe this now: you will when you see it happen.

 

[iamlamad]

I don't know why you would think after the cosmos parts and the world sees Jesus before the throne of God - of the sixth seal.

But I view the the five months of the tormenting locust as being soon after Satan is cast down to earth because of the war in heaven in Revelation 12:7-9 just past the mid-point of the 7 years (the 1260days of Revelation 12:6).

My reasoning is that at the beginning of Revelation 9, John sees a star falling from heaven, being given the key to bottomless pit to open it.

1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

Why would Satan being cast down to earth be given the key to the bottomless pit? The bible doesn't say why. imo, it is because since Satan and his angels are going to be made a terror no more when Jesus returns to earth - them, the demons and angels, locked in the bottomless pit are going to be included.

It is going to be a terrible time on earth, when they are released. The five months is the time that they have to torment men, why five months is not explained - only that they were given, allowed, five months. Perhaps that is the lifespan of the locust, or perhaps they die off because of one of the other plagues such as waters becoming poisoned.

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
_______________________________________________________________________________

in short, I am seeing the 5 months of the tormenting locust to begin when Satan is cast down to earth, just past the 1260 day mid-point of the 7 years. Not near the end of the 7 years, when the sixth seal takes place.

Douggg, I have a novel idea: why not just believe John and the Holy Spirit - that they KNEW the perfect chronology?

It seems you all just IGNORE time in your theories. The truth is, the 5th trumpet will come many months BEFORE the midpoint of the week, and the 5 months will be OVER and then the 6th trumpet will take some time, and finally the 7th trumpet will mark the midpoint. Then, and only then, will the war in heaven take place.

In other words, by the time of the war in heaven, the locusts will be a bad memory. Their 5 months will be history.

It will be one of God's angels that unlock the bottomless pit - not one of Satan's angels.

 

[iamlamad]

Since Jesus mentions the Holy Spirit to the recipients of his Church, then the NT Age temporal is this Age and the Permanent Age that we hope for is what guarantees us in this Age what is to come after it ends, this Age as far as Christ was concerned is the Holy Spirit Temple construct age.

21Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us,22set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

The Permanent Age to come is after biological death that guareenteess us our inheritance as Testators (Hebrews 9:15-17,27) after our earthly house is dissolved and this underpins our redemption of the Age post NT guaranteeing Age of the Holy Spirit Seal of God, meaning promise.

This Age is NT temporal and the Age to come is our redemption in the Permanent eternal (never ending) Age to come.

13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

So this Age temporal and the Age to come permanent is within the Holy Spirit Temple Construct. Jesus within his Holy Spirit 3.5 day ministry is not speaking of the Old Covenant Temple construct.

So the 70AD Full Preterist narrative is completely bogus and is a concoction of ill conceived misconceptions without any regard to the multitude of exegetical and theological consequences that are too numerous to talk about at length.

I agree with you, but I did not understand anything but the final sentence!

 

[iamlamad]

John Walvoord, of Dallas Theological Seminary, wrote a unique book titled "Daniel, The Key To Prophetic Revelation". This book is different from all the other books that I've seen on the subject. What's different is that Walvoord researched the best and brightest experts in Bible Prophecy, and shared their perspectives. And where these experts observed various Scriptural clues, they often were unable to explain them, but noted their Scriptural significance. For example:

Per Montgomery:

The history of the exegesis of the 70 Weeks is the Dismal Swamp of O. T. criticism. The difficulties that beset any "rationalistic" treatment of the figures are great enough, but the critics on this side of the fence do not agree among themselves; but the trackless wilderness of assumptions and theories and efforts to obtain an exact chronology fitting into the the history of Salvation, after these 2,000 years of infinitely varied interpretations, would seem to preclude any use of the 70 Weeks for the determination of a definite prophetic chronology. ... "

John Wolvoord, "Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation", Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217​

Per Young, in reference to the "going forth of the word":

This phrase has reference to the issuance of the word, not from a Persian ruler but from God. Young goes on to point out that the expression the commandment, which he insists is better translated “a word” (Heb. Dābār; cf. 2Ch 30:5) is also found is Daniel 9:23 for a word from God.”

John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 224​

Per Young, with Keil and Kliefoth:

“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”

John Wolvoord, "Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation", Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217​

I'm not here to change your mind. I'm simply informing you that what you've been told is false according to both Scripture and History. And it also contradicts the angel's instructions:

Daniel 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”
...
9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end.​

But if you like what you believe, then please do.

Thanks,
DaDad

Young was not infallible. And we are IN the time of the end. Nothing therefore should be sealed.

 

[Choose Wisely]

What you are suggesting is physically impossible. You are not getting the whole picture. God had a book in his right hand, sealed with 7 seals. Stop and think: what is the purpose of the seals?

The seals are to prevent the book from being opened except by a very special person - and it HAD to be a man. No angel could take the book. NO ONE could take that book until someone could be found that could raise from the dead under their own power and become the Redeemer.

Move ahead in time, and Jesus was found worthy. He took the book and began one at a time breaking or loosing the seals. He opened or loosed the first five seals as soon as He ascended. But at seal five we see a long time of waiting. The book cannot at this time be opened, because two more seals remain.

Finally, at the proper time (John seeing into the future in this vision) the 6th seal will be opened. The book still cannot be opened because there is one seal remaining. You seem to want to open the book here!

After the 6th seal (perhaps the ten days of Awe in between) the 7th seal will be opened. NOW, the purpose of the seals is over and done with. Now the book can be opened - to reveal seven angels ready to receive seven trumpets.

Therefore, what you are suggesting is just not possible and cannot be the intent of the Author. We really don't know what the "stars" are that fall. It could be a meteor shower. It could be God sent angels down. We just don't know. Neither do we know what it means that "the heavens departed as a scroll." The stars we see did not disappear for they are mentioned later as being dimmed.

What we can be absolutely sure of is that nothing past the 7th seal can refer back to the 6th seal.

Now we must consider TIMING. It seems you ignore that aspect. Did you never see the movie of the time machine? He placed a small model of his time machine on the table, and it disappeared! Those watching asked where it went. He said it went no where - was still in the very same position - but went into the future in TIME. If I remember right, they came back the next day and it suddenly appeared back on the table.

When we consider TIME: the 6h seal will be opened before the 7th seal and it is the 7th seal that offically starts the 70th week. The war in heaven is at the midpoint of the week - so the 6th seal and the war will be separated by over 3.5 years.

It is OK of you don't believe this now: you will when you see it happen.

What you're saying about the book not being able to be opened until all 7 seals are opened does not make sense because we can see that the 1st seal is opened and then what happens is shown. The other seals have not been opened yet.

Rev 6
6 And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

 

[iamlamad]

The vision of the 2300 days and little horn is time of the end - end times.

Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.

The reason why we can not determine the day in the seven years is because the Antichrist stops the daily sacrifice and commits the transgression of desolation - without warning.

The Jews and the world at the time, the first three years of the 7 years, will be thinking they have entered the messianic age of peace and safety - following Gog/Magog. The 7 years are between Ezekiel 39:16 and Ezekiel 39:17.

It will be the peace and safety of 1Thessalonains5. 1Thessalonians5 is actually a continuation of the resurrection/rapture verses in 1Thessalonias4:15-18. But it is also Paul saying when the Day of the Lord takes place - at a time when the Jews and the world are saying peace and safety.

1Thessalonian5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
____________________________________________________________________________

Although they shall not escape, them looking for Jesus in Luke 21:34-36 shall escape. Which the resurrection/rapture - whether asleep in Christ or alive in Christ at the time shall escape - before the Day of the Lord begins. What is not known is how long before. Could happen anytime.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

___________________________________________________________________________

So when we go to 2Thessalonians2:3-4, regarding the sudden beginning of the Day of the Lord, Paul expands to say....

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The falling away will be when the Antichrist is touted as the messiah by the Jews and anointed the King of Israel by the false prophet - it will appear to many that the Jews were right all along, and many will turn away from believing that Jesus is the messiah. That will take place during the first thee years of the seven years.

Then on the unknown day, the Antichrist stops the daily sacrifice and commits the Transgression of Desolation act. Which triggers the Day of the Lord beginning years.

God has him killed for it in Ezekiel 28:1-10, code name the prince of tyre (Tyrus).

2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up *, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God,** in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:*

3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:

*Daniel 8:25 and he shall magnify himself in his heart,
**2Thessalonians2:4 so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
_____________________________________________________________

Then in Isaiah 14:19-20, in disdain for the person, God brings him back alive, to fulfill His purpose. And brought back alive, the person transitions from having been the Antichrist, the illegitimate King of Israel, to being the revealed man of sin, to becoming the beast of Revelation 13. Of whom, the image is made of him and placed in the temple - the Abomination of Desolation.

Sorry, Douggg, but you are pulling the 2300 days out of context. The context is Antiochus. It is the end of THEIR days Daniel is writing about, so the end of the Seleucid Empire. When Daniel penned the word "end" several times the context is the Ram and the Goat. This verse tells us the accurate time:

23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

Therefore, FORGET the 2300 days as having anything to do with our future!

The reason why we can not determine the day in the seven years...
Sorry, but Daniel TELLS us! There is no need to "determine!" God to strongs and research the word "midst." it means to divide in half. The 1260 days mentioned twice, the 42 months mentioned twice should be proof enough for you that God knows how to divide in half!

No one is going to think they have paradise on earth during the first half of the week, because about every 7 months another trumpet judgment will hit.

 

[claninja]

It seems to me that Rev 12:6 and 12:14 are talking about the same period;

I agree

but I do not see 3.5 as an interval measured by time, but rather an indefinite period constituting the second half of confirming the covenant, after His being cut off in the middle.

Here is where I would disagree. There is no scripture that explicitly states that 3.5 years is equal to 1260 years

The 1260 years of 12:6 are confusing because the alleged Christian Church is persecuted both during the Papal rule which lasted 1260 years and the 1260 years from the first Muslim shrine on the Temple mount and the six day war.

The dragon ATTEMPTS to pursue/persecute the woman, however, the woman flees and is nourished for 1260 days or 3.5 years.

The 3.5 years could refer to the second advent which coincides with the 3.5 years of the eighth beast.

I would disagree, because the woman is nourished during the 3.5 years of revelation 12. However, after these 3.5 years, the dragon goes off to make war against the offspring of the woman: revelation 13.

Rev 12. stretches between the first and second advent and is an underlay; other parts that stretch between the first and second advent need to be overlayed in order to get the whole picture; I have never been able to do this fluently.

I disagree, I believe it tells us the end of the 70th week.

Jesus confirms a covenant with Israel for 1 week. His ministry lasted 3.5 years.
Jesus is cut off in the midst of the week, effectively ending the sacrifice and offering
Israel is nourished and protected for 3.5 years, while more and more Jews accept the gospel

After the 3.5 years, the gospel goes outside the jews. And satan goes to make war against these

 

[iamlamad]

3.5 symbolizes the two witnesses who go through the Great Tribulation when commissioned to Preach the Gospel.

The two witnesses before God is the Commissioned Church. The Church who symbolizes the Woman fled into the wilderness and her seed who had the Gospel of the Son went to preach the Gospel AFTER the 1st Beast and the False Religious System went down in flames AFTER the 70AD Fact.

Revelation 1:10-11
I took the little scroll out of the hand of the angel, and I ate it; and it was sweet as honey in my mouth; and when I had eaten it, my stomach was made bitter.

11And they say to me, “It is necessary for you to prophesy again concerning many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.”

John is writing to the 7 Churches instructing them to restart the commission to preach YET AGAIN from the little sweet book that is the Gospel and to accept its bitterness after preaching it, implying that it will get you into trouble, therefore, pointing to Tribulation AFTER the FACT (70AD).



It marks the End of the New Covenant Age when Christ returns and when the books are opened and where Jesus Judges the Living and the Dead in the Final Judgement of the Dead.

The END implies that everyone that needs to be saved throughout the Great Harvest of God from the New Testament Temple is now accounted for in the Book of Life (BOL) and there are no more humans to be born that would add further names to the BOL registry. Hence the phrase

The Judgment of the Dead

11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

When Hell and Biological Death are both thrown in the Lake of Fire then it signals that Satan is no more, Death biological and spiritual is no more, pointing to the time where Jesus has reigned through his Cross and defeated the last enemy death, so that he now becomes subject to the Father implying that His Cross has run its course in saving all who are to be born and to be saved throughout the Great Harvest in the NT and that the Registry of Book Of Life accounts for everyone, that is GOD is ALL in ALL.

This obviously did not happen in 70AD, because you and I were not yet born and were yet to be accounted for in the Book of Life until the Cross saved us and hence the Power of the Cross continued after 70AD and Jesus continued to reign through his Cross by making many subjects /disciples to it.

The Full Preterist implications are now being divulged by their teachers is that the Power of the Cross and of the Holy Spirit ended in 70AD and that Jesus stopped reigning in 70AD and was made subject to the Father where God should have been all in all accounting for everyone that ever needed to be written in the Book of Life registry.

The 3.5 years must line up with the seed of the 1st Century Woman the Church who continued as the symbol of the two witnesses to preach from the little sweet book until the end of the Great Harvest that is at the end of the New Covenant Age when Jesus would have defeated the Last enemy Death and that the mission of the Cross would have accomplished what it was set out to do.

3.5 years after Christ's 3.5 years ministry is the entire NT commission of the Church to Yet Preach Again as John instructed the 7 Church Heads in Asia Minor. Notice the two witnesses are raised into Heaven after 3.5 days, at the Resurrection of the Dead at Christ's brilliant return when he Judges the Living and the Dead at the Final Judgement of the Dead.

The two witnesses before God is the Commissioned Church.

This is myth. Sorry. The two witnesses will be TWO MEN - probably Enoch and Elijah, the two men who did not die.

The 7 years and the 3.5 years (half of 7) are FUTURE.

 

[iamlamad]

Hey eleos1954,
Please be aware that the Daniel 9 commentary version has so many problems, that it's a USELESS "ancient-fulfillment" portent *. Neither the Scriptural specifics nor the Historical assignments work.

As such, you might wish to consider obeying the angel's guidance in 12:4 & 9.

*

1. Daniel 9:2 specifies "years".
2. Daniel 9:2 does not use the simple shama to perceive the prophecy of Jeremiah as though reading that book, but rather the Solomon biyn to perceive the prophecy in the BOOKS.
3. Per "Young": Daniel 9:25"going forth of the word" does NOT have the inference of any edict from man, but rather and edict directly from GOD.
4. Per "Newton": The Daniel 9:25 seven is one duration with an anointed one "coming" after that duration.
5. Per "Newton": The Daniel 9:25-26 sixty-two weeks is a second duration with a second anointed one who is cut off after that duration.
6. Per "Young, Keil, & Kliefoth": The "weeks" are the inconcise Masculine gender text, which are specifically NOT 490 years.
7. The second anointed one who is cut off is not killed upon the sixty-two, but simply AFTER.
8. The destroyer does not come at the beginning, middle, or upon the end of the seventieth"week", but "shall come" after the seventieth "week".
9. The seven, the sixty-two, the seventieth, and after the seventieth are chronologically connected, with NO ~2,000 year gaps.
10. This prophecy is shut up and sealed until the time of the end, which is approximate to 1948.
​

Thanks,
DaDad

GOD did not send this edict. He used a leader in Persia to send it. If it was "sealed" why even listen to Newton or Young or Strongs?

The biggest problem with Daniel 9 is that people simply cannot bring themselves to believe it as written.