Preaching for Dollars

RaymondG

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"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Timothy 4:3
the thing is....whenever someone uses this scripture they assume they have the sound doctrine and the others are the ones with itching ears. This is how you feel as well, correct?
 
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GingerBeer

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Is it a sin to preach in order to become super rich?

Yes it is a sin to preach for personal gain. 1Peter 5:1-5 [1] So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: [2] shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; [3] not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. [4] And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory. [5] Likewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. Matthew 10:5-15 [5] ... Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, [6] but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. [7] And proclaim as you go, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. [8] Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay. [9] Acquire no gold or silver or copper for your belts, [10] no bag for your journey, or two tunics or sandals or a staff, for the laborer deserves his food. [11] And whatever town or village you enter, find out who is worthy in it and stay there until you depart. [12] As you enter the house, greet it. [13] And if the house is worthy, let your peace come upon it, but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. [14] And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town. [15] Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgement for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.

One televangelist is worth about 760 million dollars. He has a large 18,000 sq ft mansion, square miles of land, a private airport and jet planes. Preachers have amassed fortunes encouraging poor people to contribute all they could. Is this not feeding the hungry, clothing the naked or visiting the sick and imprisoned Christians (Matthew 25:31-46)?

15 richest preachers list:
https://www.etinside.com/?p=539
 
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Phil 1:21

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the thing is....whenever someone uses this scripture they assume they have the sound doctrine and the others are the ones with itching ears. This is how you feel as well, correct?
Show me the biblical support for the prosperity gospel.
 
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Is it a sin to preach in order to become super rich? One televangelist is worth about 760 million dollars. He has a large 18,000 sq ft mansion, square miles of land, a private airport and jet planes. Preachers have amassed fortunes encouraging poor people to contribute all they could. Is this not feeding the hungry, clothing the naked or visiting the sick and imprisoned Christians (Matthew 25:31-46)?

15 richest preachers list:
https://www.etinside.com/?p=539
It all depends on what they do with the money. Roberts Liardon has an aeroplane because of all the travelling across the country, otherwise he would be burned out in a very short space of time. Oral Roberts collected millions of dollars, but he gave it all away, and when he died, all he had was his car, 2 bedroom condo, and a modest bank account. I believe in prosperity the Bible way, in that God does not will anyone to be broke, unable to have a roof over their head, no car to drive, and not be able to pay their bills. There are many Scriptures in the Old and New Testaments that back that up. But collecting money for personal use - large aircraft, private airports, large mansions, expensive motor cars, etc., is not Bible prosperity. People give their money, time and effort, believing that their money is going into the work of the Lord, and not into the preacher's personal account for his own use. Because a laborer is worthy of his hire, I believe he needs to receive a reasonable salary to live a debt-free life style and have the same type of house, car, clothes, and bill payment ability that any normal person should have. Also, where a preacher is running a large evangelical organisation, there are administration costs, staff salary costs, rents, transport, etc., that all have to be paid. A good preacher needs a team to work with him, otherwise he will be worn out too soon. So when we see a preacher receiving a humongous offering in his meetings, we must remember that the money is being spent appropriately and wisely. But a preacher who is using the money to have an opulent lifestyle above those of his own team and others in his church, is destroying his testimony and his credibility in the view of the community around him.
 
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RaymondG

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Show me the biblical support for the prosperity gospel.
I will, after you help me understand what is the prosperity gospel....as it is a made up term. You can give one example of a statement of the prosperity gospel and how it is biblically wrong.
 
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Yarddog

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Is it a sin to preach in order to become super rich? One televangelist is worth about 760 million dollars. He has a large 18,000 sq ft mansion, square miles of land, a private airport and jet planes. Preachers have amassed fortunes encouraging poor people to contribute all they could. Is this not feeding the hungry, clothing the naked or visiting the sick and imprisoned Christians (Matthew 25:31-46)?

15 richest preachers list:
https://www.etinside.com/?p=539
Well, when you think about the Apostles and how they gave what they had to the Church and went about working amongst their sheep to earn their food and lodging, it doesn't smell kosher.
 
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StephenDiscipleofYHWH

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Is it a sin to preach in order to become super rich? One televangelist is worth about 760 million dollars. He has a large 18,000 sq ft mansion, square miles of land, a private airport and jet planes. Preachers have amassed fortunes encouraging poor people to contribute all they could. Is this not feeding the hungry, clothing the naked or visiting the sick and imprisoned Christians (Matthew 25:31-46)?

15 richest preachers list:
https://www.etinside.com/?p=539
It is a sin to make money off of preaching, the money given to the Church is for the Church and should be used to help people in need.
So yes, every one of these preachers are in sin until they give all their money away to help those in need and repent of their wrongdoing.
 
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Yekcidmij

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Is it a sin to preach in order to become super rich? One televangelist is worth about 760 million dollars. He has a large 18,000 sq ft mansion, square miles of land, a private airport and jet planes. Preachers have amassed fortunes encouraging poor people to contribute all they could. Is this not feeding the hungry, clothing the naked or visiting the sick and imprisoned Christians (Matthew 25:31-46)?

15 richest preachers list:
https://www.etinside.com/?p=539

I think those sorts are frauds who just want to convince you to give them the money you earned.
 
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Phil 1:21

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RaymondG

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brocke

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Let me in my post first present what my be perceived biases. 1) I am a former full-time pastor and am now a Mechanical Design Engineer. Part of the reason I left full-time ministry was so I could pay the bills for education and living support that were incurred in order to be a full-time pastor. 2) I pastored a 400 member church with 200+ in average attendance and never made more than $40,000/year. 3)For the number of people managed by a pastor even in an average church is comparable to administrators in many businesses and there is no salary comparison. Due a great deal I think in the false believe that Pastors have to be poor to be legit.

With that said I don't think we can put all the highest paid preachers/pastors in the category of Prosperity Gospel preachers. They are spread over the spectrum of theological focuses, and some of them deal with their finances differently and have made their money in ways outside of just preaching.

For example Rich Warren is on of those listed in the link from the OP. He didn't make his wealth from preaching at Saddleback. He made it from the success of the "Purpose Driven Life" book and all the extras that created. He also was making income from other books he has written. The royalties created from book sales are more the result of the publisher and marketing than the author. Also Rick Warren lives off a small percentage of what he earns and gives the vast majority to charity. BTW I am not a Rick Warren fan, he's done great work and reached a lot of people for Christ. He is Calvanist though and I am Weslyan.

We also cannot discount what Paul says in 1 Timothy 5:17,18. "Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor especially those who labor in preaching and teaching; for the scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves to be paid.” Even in Old Testament times God's plan was for the people of God to provide for the ministers of God. Unfortunately for the norm is to make the Pastor and their family to live in conditions that are almost or are slum conditions. On top of that to not pay enough to support their family, pay for the education they are required to take, let alone have enough to put away for retirement or to cover basic medical health insurance and expenses.

With that said when a bishop in a mainline denominational church has a set salary of six figures then I say, the discussion and worry should not be who is and is not preaching for profit. But who is sinning by not properly and fairly providing for those God sends to us to share the gospel.
 
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JCFantasy23

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It's striking me as funny now, but I'm thinking most of us who are posting in this thread may be thinking of different things entirely for this topic and we're blending different debates together.

  • Fraudulent pastors or speakers who come across as con-men
  • The Prosperity Gospel in general
  • Pastors earning money at all as part of the 'vocation versus calling' debate
  • The debate if it's okay to be a wealthy pastor in general, even if you don't preach a prosperity gospel
 
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Hazelelponi

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Let me in my post first present what my be perceived biases. 1) I am a former full-time pastor and am now a Mechanical Design Engineer. Part of the reason I left full-time ministry was so I could pay the bills for education and living support that were incurred in order to be a full-time pastor. 2) I pastored a 400 member church with 200+ in average attendance and never made more than $40,000/year. 3)For the number of people managed by a pastor even in an average church is comparable to administrators in many businesses and there is no salary comparison. Due a great deal I think in the false believe that Pastors have to be poor to be legit.

With that said I don't think we can put all the highest paid preachers/pastors in the category of Prosperity Gospel preachers. They are spread over the spectrum of theological focuses, and some of them deal with their finances differently and have made their money in ways outside of just preaching.

For example Rich Warren is on of those listed in the link from the OP. He didn't make his wealth from preaching at Saddleback. He made it from the success of the "Purpose Driven Life" book and all the extras that created. He also was making income from other books he has written. The royalties created from book sales are more the result of the publisher and marketing than the author. Also Rick Warren lives off a small percentage of what he earns and gives the vast majority to charity. BTW I am not a Rick Warren fan, he's done great work and reached a lot of people for Christ. He is Calvanist though and I am Weslyan.

We also cannot discount what Paul says in 1 Timothy 5:17,18. "Let the elders who rule well be considered worthy of double honor especially those who labor in preaching and teaching; for the scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and, “The laborer deserves to be paid.” Even in Old Testament times God's plan was for the people of God to provide for the ministers of God. Unfortunately for the norm is to make the Pastor and their family to live in conditions that are almost or are slum conditions. On top of that to not pay enough to support their family, pay for the education they are required to take, let alone have enough to put away for retirement or to cover basic medical health insurance and expenses.

With that said when a bishop in a mainline denominational church has a set salary of six figures then I say, the discussion and worry should not be who is and is not preaching for profit. But who is sinning by not properly and fairly providing for those God sends to us to share the gospel.

The majority of preachers in my area don't get paid. They work a job and preach on Sunday. Wednesday if they can... there is usually an elder or two that helps out, fills in. (I went church and denomination shopping after I was saved.)

Those are small churches. The money people pitch in goes toward the building and charity.

There is a handful of larger churches (various denominations) which pay their pastors. The Pastor at my church makes what my husband and I do plus has a house provided. If they needed more his wife could get a part-time job somewhere but she doesn't.. they are okay I suppose. They make more than many in this area (especially figuring in the house), but less than others, a lot less than some (doctors etc).

I don't think it's bad what we are able as a church to provide him, and I don't think it's wrong to give him money for being a full time preacher, it's what the church wanted and it's a big enough church.

If he had a different job would he make more? Yes.. of course. (It wouldn't be in this area though.. lol) Heck, if he lived in a city he'd make more.. but he took this job offer, so i guess he was fine with what was offered.

What people are speaking of mainly is who makes huge sums of money off elderly watching TV and buying some line of lies.. (buy this holy water and be healed.. lol)

Charles Stanley has a ministry and makes (takes home) 300,000 per year.. which to me is enough to make me choke, lol, but he lives in a big city where cost of living is higher and such, so i dont suppose I can criticize that.. if I had millions at my disposal that's likely what I'd choose for that area to take home.

It really is the people living in multi million dollar compounds selling lies that people have difficulty with. Not usually your average Pastor.

I do think if we took the money away, preaching isn't what those people would choose. Being a Pastor isn't a career choice, it's a calling. like an artist, writer, or teacher, you don't do it to get rich..you do it because its in your heart to do.
 
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Phil 1:21

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Which part do you feel is unbiblical? God can give you health? God can give you wealth? Is there something they say God will do that you feel He can't?
Prosperity theology (sometimes referred to as the prosperity gospel, the health and wealth gospel, the gospel of success or seed faith)[A]is a religious belief among some Christians, who hold that financial blessing and physical well-being are always the will of God for them, and that faith, positive speech, and donations to religious causes will increase one's material wealth. Prosperity theology views the Bible as a contract between God and humans: if humans have faith in God, he will deliver security and prosperity.”

Quite different from your above description. Dishonesty is also unbiblical.
 
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Is it a sin to preach in order to become super rich? One televangelist is worth about 760 million dollars. He has a large 18,000 sq ft mansion, square miles of land, a private airport and jet planes. Preachers have amassed fortunes encouraging poor people to contribute all they could. Is this not feeding the hungry, clothing the naked or visiting the sick and imprisoned Christians (Matthew 25:31-46)?

Yes, it is a sinful motivation, 1 Timothy 6:10, Matthew 19:24, Mark 10:25, and Luke 18:25 come to mind. Can God use sinful motivations for good? Just ask Joseph. I would however take great care in listening to such a preacher, because things may appear one way on the outside, but be quite another on the inside. Is it enough for a rich man to give some of his wealth? The problem with the rich man is not the riches in themselves, but his attachment to his riches, and the problem with riches is, the more riches one has, the easier it can be to become a bit too attached, to the point of idolatry.
 
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SkyWriting

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Is it a sin to preach in order to become super rich? One televangelist is worth about 760 million dollars. He has a large 18,000 sq ft mansion, square miles of land, a private airport and jet planes. Preachers have amassed fortunes encouraging poor people to contribute all they could. Is this not feeding the hungry, clothing the naked or visiting the sick and imprisoned Christians (Matthew 25:31-46)?

15 richest preachers list:
https://www.etinside.com/?p=539

Sin can only be judged in your own life by your motives.
It's not accurate to judge the sin of others.
It's fun, but not accurate.
 
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SkyWriting

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I would however take great care in listening to such a preacher, because things may appear one way on the outside, but be quite another on the inside.

A politician may in fact, be compassionate, on the inside.
 
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