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Aldebaran

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Sorry, but I'm a Christian. God is my authority. Selective quotes from the Buckeye Firearms Association don't take priority over what The Bible clearly says.

You were the one talking about the Second Amendment and what it's purpose was. I was simply responding. Did you forget your post? Here's a reminder:
Yes, weaponry had progressed from matchlocks to flintlocks! Wow! No more ignition delay!

If you recall, the war was fought against an overseas monarchy with a powerful army. So the solution was "a well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state". I agree that life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are all in danger if we don't have the right to defend our own lives and the lives of others from those who seek to physically harm us. That is why we have the police and the military -- "well-trained militias". Why do you think the first part of the Second Amendment is there? Why doesn't it just say "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed"?

BTW, I'll take the founding fathers' statements about how they intended the Second Amendment to work over the words of a modern day SCOTUS judge.
 
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pescador

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Are we? What happened to all those laws that regulate how the election process is carried out securely and fairly? They clearly weren't being enforced when they allow the things to take place that happened.



Sounds like we should have martial law. Do you agree?

Oy vey! We had the fairest, most secure election in US history and Joseph Biden won "by a landslide". I know that you can't accept that and instead believe Trump's propaganda, but the facts are plain for all to see. Not a single court accepted lawsuits concerning the election as valid. Is the judiciary dishonest too in your opinion?

Do I agree that we should have martial law? Do you think that the uprising against Congress on January 6 was a valid exercise of free speech?
 
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pescador

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You were the one talking about the Second Amendment and what it's purpose was. I was simply responding. Did you forget your post? Here's a reminder:


BTW, I'll take the founding fathers' statements about how they intended the Second Amendment to work over the words of a modern day SCOTUS judge.

Yes, the Supreme Court shouldn't have any say in national affairs. After all, nothing has changed in the US in 245 years.

Whoops, my quill pen broke and my inkwell tipped over...

P.S. I didn't write "BTW, I'll take the founding fathers' statements about how they intended the Second Amendment to work over the words of a modern day SCOTUS judge", you did.
 
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SkyWriting

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Who is "we"? We gained our majority hold on the White House and Congress, (note: the Senate is part of the Congress). And yes, we Americans need to defend all of the normal issues we consider important, but were neglected by the former President.
Today at 3:27 PM#10
 
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Aldebaran

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Oy vey! We had the fairest, most secure election in US history and Joseph Biden won "by a landslide". I know that you can't accept that and instead believe Trump's propaganda, but the facts are plain for all to see. Not a single court accepted lawsuits concerning the election as valid. Is the judiciary dishonest too in your opinion?

I've seen plenty of overwhelming evidence. So have millions of others. But the courts don't like getting involved in election matters. Even CNN could see that before the election even took place, indicating that even they could see what was about to happen. In the calm before the possible storm, it doesn't look like courts will decide the election - CNNPolitics

Do I agree that we should have martial law?

That was my question to you.

Do you think that the uprising against Congress on January 6 was a valid exercise of free speech?

More valid than burning down police precincts after pouring wet concrete on the doors to keep people from escaping the flames. Or smashing someone's head in with a brick because George Floyd.
 
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pescador

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I've seen plenty of overwhelming evidence. So have millions of others. But the courts don't like getting involved in election matters. Even CNN could see that before the election even took place, indicating that even they could see what was about to happen. In the calm before the possible storm, it doesn't look like courts will decide the election - CNNPolitics



That was my question to you.



More valid than burning down police precincts after pouring wet concrete on the doors to keep people from escaping the flames. Or smashing someone's head in with a brick because George Floyd.

Aldebaran, since our discussion is going nowhere, I'm no longer going to read or respond to your posts.
 
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Aldebaran

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P.S. I didn't write "BTW, I'll take the founding fathers' statements about how they intended the Second Amendment to work over the words of a modern day SCOTUS judge", you did.

That's why that section wasn't included in the quote.
 
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Aldebaran

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Hank77

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Yes, weaponry had progressed from matchlocks to flintlocks! Wow! No more ignition delay!

If you recall, the war was fought against an overseas monarchy with a powerful army. So the solution was "a well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state". I agree that life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are all in danger if we don't have the right to defend our own lives and the lives of others from those who seek to physically harm us. That is why we have the police and the military -- "well-trained militias". Why do you think the first part of the Second Amendment is there? Why doesn't it just say "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed"?
I see I didn't word my last remarks well seeing that right off the bat you understood me to say something different than what I was intending.

We could go around and around about what the Second Amendment means but it wouldn't get us anywhere. I'll just say that I agree with the majority reasoning in the SCOTUS case The District of Columbia v Heller.

I will say off the cuff that I believe that there is no way the Founders would have considered people not being allowed to own weapons to protect themselves and others, especially in their own homes. To this day many people hunt to put meat on the table. We use rifles to protect our livestock from predators. [With the reintroduction of wolves in CO that's one more predator for ranchers to protect their livelihood from.]
 
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Aldebaran

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I will say off the cuff that I believe that there is no way the Founders would have considered people not being allowed to own weapons to protect themselves and others, especially in their own homes. To this day many people hunt to put meat on the table. We use rifles to protect our livestock from predators. [With the reintroduction of wolves in CO that's one more predator for ranchers to protect their livelihood from.]

There's history to support that:
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

"To disarm the people...s the most effectual way to enslave them."
- George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

"I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers."
- George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788
 
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Wolseley

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Not all rifles that look like the plinger are exactly the same weapon. One holds 5 or 6 rounds while the other holds clips with up to approx. 30 rounds. Both can fire as quickly as you can pull the trigger.

The one in the picture that I posted is precisely the same weapon: a Ruger 10-22 Sporter; semi-automatic, ten round capacity. All they did was take the barrel, receiver, and trigger assembly out of the wooden stock and drop them into the polymer stock with some minor adjustment for the mag and the groovy little add-ons. (shrug) Won't fire any faster than it did the other way. As for 30-round magazines (NOT clips---check your nomenclature, clips are a totally different animal) see below.

I think there is also a psychological component to using an AR or AK because of the way it looks, not for everyone but for many. What do militia members, prefer and why? Is it because they look like a military-style weapon?

Any militia I've ever had any contact with, the members usually bring whatever weapons they have and are confident with. Are there a lot of ARs? Sure there are. An AR is the same basic framework as an M-16, and most militia members are military veterans who have trained with and are familiar with M-16s.

The people who wrote the Second Amendment lived in the time when single-shot flintlocks were the most prevalent weapon. They had no conception of modern weaponry, including AR and AK weapons.

The First Amendment was written at the same time as the Second. They had no concept of electronic media such as computers and the internet, so why are you communicating on this forum? Shouldn't you be writing on parchment with a quill pen, sealing the envelope with candle wax, and sending the letter by horse-drawn delivery?

Besides, by the time the Second Amendment was ratified, a rotary machine gun that could throw out 63 rounds in seven minutes was already in use, and had been for upwards of 70 years: Puckle gun - Wikipedia

BTW, have you read the first part of the 2nd Amendment? "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..." People running around taking the law into their own hands violates this clause: 1) they're not a well-regulated militia and 2) they don't have the security of the country as their goal.

Yes, I have. Have you reviewed the court cases relating to the amendment? The courts have consistently ruled that the term "well-regulated militia" refers to the general population, i.e., the entire American People. And what gives you the idea that civilian militia doesn't have the security of this country as their goal? You think that if the Chinese parachuted en masse into the American heartland tomorrow, that everyone holding a weapon would just sit down and say, "Golly, I can't kill any Communist Chinese invaders, because it's not my job to keep the country secure. I'll just wait here for the police and the army to do the job"? Stop swallowing the media line that militias are gangs of criminals who want to overthrow the government. If anything, militias want to restrict the government from overstepping its bounds, which is exactly why the Second Amendment was put into place to begin with.

On the evening of October 1, 2017, Stephen Paddock, a 64-year-old man from Mesquite, Nevada, opened fire upon the crowd attending the Route 91 Harvest music festival on the Las Vegas Strip in Nevada. Between 10:05 and 10:15 p.m. PDT, he fired more than 1,000 rounds of ammunition from his 32nd floor suites in the Mandalay Bay Hotel, killing 60 people[a] and wounding 411, with the ensuing panic bringing the injury total to 867. About an hour later, Paddock was found dead in his room from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. His motive remains officially undetermined.

His arsenal of weapons, associated equipment and ammunition included fourteen AR-15 rifles (all of which were equipped with bump stocks and twelve of which had 100-round magazines), eight AR-10-type rifles, a bolt-action rifle, and a revolver.[20] A bump stock modifies a semi-automatic weapon so that it can shoot in rapid succession, mimicking automatic fire.[4]


I don't think we're commenting on "cosmetics". Even the NRA supported the ban of bump stocks.

Non sequitur. The weapons in question can't throw out lead any faster than any other semi-automatic weapon, but if you have 24 fully-loaded weapons, of course you're going to be able to discharge more rounds. We're not talking about the capacity or the capability of the weapon, but how many weapons the perp had on hand. How many people are going to walk into a sports arena with 24 weapons? The guy wouldn't even be able to move.
 
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pescador

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I see I didn't word my last remarks well seeing that right off the bat you understood me to say something different than what I was intending.

We could go around and around about what the Second Amendment means but it wouldn't get us anywhere. I'll just say that I agree with the majority reasoning in the SCOTUS case The District of Columbia v Heller.

I will say off the cuff that I believe that there is no way the Founders would have considered people not being allowed to own weapons to protect themselves and others, especially in their own homes. To this day many people hunt to put meat on the table. We use rifles to protect our livestock from predators. [With the reintroduction of wolves in CO that's one more predator for ranchers to protect their livelihood from.]

"We could go around and around about what the Second Amendment means but it wouldn't get us anywhere." Agreed.

BTW, I live to the south of you: New Mexico. I am a lifelong gun owner and shooter and, until recently, a hunter. Since I'm now 77 I have reluctantly stopped hunting. We have livestock, plenty of coyotes, and the occasional puma. The wolves are south of us. (I distinctly remember being VERY CLOSE to a Mexican grey wolf while in my sleeping bag, camping. Thrilling!)

I agree that there is no way the Founders would have considered people not being allowed to own weapons to protect themselves and others, especially in their own homes. However, that is entirely different from people taking the law into their own hands, battling the police and sometimes attacking people whose ethnicity or politics doesn't match theirs.

Not all gun owners/users are responsible, law-abiding citizens.
 
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Hank77

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I agree that there is no way the Founders would have considered people not being allowed to own weapons to protect themselves and others, especially in their own homes. However, that is entirely different from people taking the law into their own hands, battling the police and sometimes attacking people whose ethnicity or politics doesn't match theirs.

Not all gun owners/users are responsible, law-abiding citizens.
I completely agree with you.
 
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cow451

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Are we? What happened to all those laws that regulate how the election process is carried out securely and fairly? They clearly weren't being enforced when they allow the things to take place that happened.
Are you saying the election was stolen?
 
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cow451

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Wolseley

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cow451

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Yes.
Yes.
You have accused the Governor of Georgia, the Georgia Secretary of State and hundreds of appointed and elected judges of federal crimes.
You have also accused officials of several other states of federal crimes, related to and including election fraud. Correct?
Correct?
 
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Wolseley

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No, I am saying that said officials were misled. I am saying that they (and we) are the victims of a very well-planned, well-executed, and well-camouflaged conspiracy to make absolutely sure that Donald Trump lost the election. A conspiracy so well executed that any evidence in conflict with the "official" version of events that the Democrats wanted disseminated was immediately squelched, and squelched hard. In the wake of the 2016 election, they recovered from their shock and had four years to plan their coup, and to make sure that they would win in 2020, by any means necessary. That's what I'm saying.
 
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cow451

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No, I am saying that said officials were misled. I am saying that they (and we) are the victims of a very well-planned, well-executed, and well-camouflaged conspiracy to make absolutely sure that Donald Trump lost the election. A conspiracy so well executed that any evidence in conflict with the "official" version of events that the Democrats wanted disseminated was immediately squelched, and squelched hard. In the wake of the 2016 election, they recovered from their shock and had four years to plan their coup, and to make sure that they would win in 2020, by any means necessary. That's what I'm saying.
The “stolen election” required thousands of people and high level elected and appointed officials to be culpable. Which Democrats engaged in election fraud?
 
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