New York judge finds Donald Trump liable for fraud

[JustOneWay]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/26/politics/trump-organization-business-fraud/index.html

Engoron granted Attorney General Letitia James’ motion for summary judgment, finding Trump, his sons, and others “to be liable as a matter of law for persistent violations” of New York state law.

In the order, the judge rejected Trump’s deposition testimony in which the former president said that the financial statements were not fraudulent because they contained disclaimers. Trump said the statements contained a “worthless clause” in them warning lenders and others that they shouldn’t be relied on.

Tuesday, the judge said that “the defendants’ reliance on these ‘worthless’ disclaimers is worthless.”

Liable for fraud.
Liable for sexual assault and defamation
Liable for defamation a second time
Liable for fraud Trump University
liable for tax fraud
indicted four times.


This is the guy I want to vote for....change my mind.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Ouch!

 

[Mayzoo]

Does he have any grounds for appeal? They opted from inaction not to have a jury trial, so that should not be grounds for appeal, unless I am mistaken? I am sure they will appeal anyway, I am just wondering if the appeal hence retrial will be granted or not.

 

[DaisyDay]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/26/politics/trump-organization-business-fraud/index.html

Engoron granted Attorney General Letitia James’ motion for summary judgment, finding Trump, his sons, and others “to be liable as a matter of law for persistent violations” of New York state law.

In the order, the judge rejected Trump’s deposition testimony in which the former president said that the financial statements were not fraudulent because they contained disclaimers. Trump said the statements contained a “worthless clause” in them warning lenders and others that they shouldn’t be relied on.

Tuesday, the judge said that “the defendants’ reliance on these ‘worthless’ disclaimers is worthless.”

Liable for fraud.
Liable for sexual assault and defamation
Liable for defamation a second time
Liable for fraud Trump University
liable for tax fraud
indicted four times.


This is the guy I want to vote for....change my mind.

Is schadenfreude a sin?

Ivanka was not included.

 

[JustOneWay]

Does he have any grounds for appeal? They opted from inaction not to have a jury trial, so that should not be grounds for appeal, unless I am mistaken? I am sure they will appeal anyway, I am just wondering if the appeal hence retrial will be granted or not.

Of course. We are talking about trump. It is never over with him. Perhaps I misspoke about the trial ending....because this is a pre-trial judgement.

"And in a stunning development, the judge has already ordered the complete dissolution of the fabled Trump Organization–the tycoon’s pride and joy, the empire that made him famous and elevated him into the White House. The Trump Organization and its sister companies will be sent into receivership to be under the control of a court-appointed officer.

"Even before the trial officially starts, the ruling handed New York Attorney General Letitia James a near total victory, meaning that next week’s trial will mostly focus on damages that could pulverize whatever is left of Trump’s many business entities and bank accounts.''

Trump Basically Just Lost the New York Bank Fraud Case Before It Even Started

A judge in the New York Attorney General's bank fraud case against Trump just deemed the former president and his heirs liable for “persistent and repeated fraud.”

www.thedailybeast.com

I believe trump also sued the judge and we are waiting for that ruling later.

 

[JustOneWay]

Is schadenfreude a sin?

Ivanka was not included.

She was taken out of it a few months back when a judge accepted her argument that she was not in responsible for any of the alleged fraudulent activity.

 

[Pommer]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/26/politics/trump-organization-business-fraud/index.html

Engoron granted Attorney General Letitia James’ motion for summary judgment, finding Trump, his sons, and others “to be liable as a matter of law for persistent violations” of New York state law.

In the order, the judge rejected Trump’s deposition testimony in which the former president said that the financial statements were not fraudulent because they contained disclaimers. Trump said the statements contained a “worthless clause” in them warning lenders and others that they shouldn’t be relied on.

Tuesday, the judge said that “the defendants’ reliance on these ‘worthless’ disclaimers is worthless.”

Liable for fraud.
Liable for sexual assault and defamation
Liable for defamation a second time
Liable for fraud Trump University
liable for tax fraud
indicted four times.


This is the guy I want to vote for....change my mind.

How many threads do we need on this topic?

 

[JustOneWay]

How many threads do we need on this topic?

Why you want more?

 

[BPPLEE]

Of course. We are talking about trump. It is never over with him. Perhaps I misspoke about the trial ending....because this is a pre-trial judgement.

"And in a stunning development, the judge has already ordered the complete dissolution of the fabled Trump Organization–the tycoon’s pride and joy, the empire that made him famous and elevated him into the White House. The Trump Organization and its sister companies will be sent into receivership to be under the control of a court-appointed officer.

"Even before the trial officially starts, the ruling handed New York Attorney General Letitia James a near total victory, meaning that next week’s trial will mostly focus on damages that could pulverize whatever is left of Trump’s many business entities and bank accounts.''

Trump Basically Just Lost the New York Bank Fraud Case Before It Even Started

A judge in the New York Attorney General's bank fraud case against Trump just deemed the former president and his heirs liable for “persistent and repeated fraud.”

www.thedailybeast.com

I believe trump also sued the judge and we are waiting for that ruling later.

I just have 2 questions: Did Trump pay back the loans? And did the banks complain?

 

[Pommer]

I just have 2 questions: Did Trump pay back the loans? And did the banks complain?

The trial is over.

 

[JustOneWay]

I just have 2 questions: Did Trump pay back the loans? And did the banks complain?

I don't know nor care. Apparently it is irrelevant in the eyes of the law. Do you know? He overvalued assets for loans while undervaluing the same assets for insurance and tax purposes. That is fraud.

The judge said "“A discrepancy of this order of magnitude, by a real estate developer sizing up his own living space of decades, can only be considered fraud,”

Read the ruling.

" The word 'fraud' or 'fraudulent' as used herein shall include any device, scheme, or artifice to defraud and any deception, misrepresentation, concealment, suppression, false pretense, false promise or unconscionable contractual provisions. "

 

[Fantine]

From all the facts I have seen in the past 7 years, I commend the judge for his/her wise decision.

As a former New Yorker from birth, I am outraged that my taxes and the taxes of those New Yorkers I love were even a few cents higher due to these companies and their principals operating outside of the law while availing themselves of the benefits and privileges of living in America's financial, cultural, fashion, and media mecca, my birthplace, NYC.

Amazon Prime had a special on Trump's life. Trump Tower paid no property taxes for 40 years. Trump claimed he owed no taxes because he was rehabilitating a distressed area. 5th Ave and 65th overlooking Central Park?

Mayor Koch said "no." The tax breaks were meant for Harlem. Bedford-Stuy, etc. (And were very successful.)
Trump sued the state and won.
He needs to repay what he owes with interest, and if he has to move into a tenement (or a prison cell) justice will be served.

 

[DaisyDay]

I just have 2 questions: Did Trump pay back the loans? And did the banks complain?

He declared bankruptcy six times.

 

[JustOneWay]

He declared bankruptcy six times.

Indeed. He found a legal way to not pay people for the money he owed.

 

[Fantine]

In this case, all the assets of the Trump Organization have been put into receivership. I imagine that this would allow the state to sell any (or all) of the properties in order to satisfy the financial judgment which will be determined at the fraud trial next week.

Since the properties are currently under receivership, I don't think they could be protected from bankruptcy claims. Is there someone out there more knowledgeable about these things?

According to this article, the receivership will guarantee that all creditors (including the State of New York) will be paid. Since none of the Trumps is allowed to operate any business in NY in the future, I imagine the properties will be sold, the creditors will be paid, and the Trumps will receive what is left (if anything).

Perhaps Trump friend Elon Musk will buy Trump Tower. Elon Muck Tower anyone? Or Tesla Tower for the alliteration?

Receivership: What It Is, How It Works, vs. Bankruptcy

A receivership is a court-appointed solution that can assist creditors to recover funds in default and help troubled companies to avoid bankruptcy.

www.investopedia.com

 

[DaisyDay]

I just have 2 questions: Did Trump pay back the loans?

Not always.

New York Times: President Trump had $270M in debt forgiven after failing to repay lenders for Trump Tower Chicago, tax records show

He's had debt forgiven since 2010 after he didn't repay his lenders for a Chicago skyscraper development, the NY Times reported.

abc7chicago.com

And did the banks complain?

I don't know, but American banks stopped lending to him long ago. Deutsche Bank might have been pretty shady.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/20/investing/fed-fine-deutsche-bank/index.html

 

[BPPLEE]

Not always.

New York Times: President Trump had $270M in debt forgiven after failing to repay lenders for Trump Tower Chicago, tax records show

He's had debt forgiven since 2010 after he didn't repay his lenders for a Chicago skyscraper development, the NY Times reported.

abc7chicago.com

I don't know, but American banks stopped lending to him long ago. Deutsche Bank might have been pretty shady.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/20/investing/fed-fine-deutsche-bank/index.html

If he underestimated for tax purposes and overestimated for loans I can see how that would be fraud.

 

[Arcangl86]

If he underestimated for tax purposes and overestimated for loans I can see how that would be fraud.

Civil fraud and criminal fraud in NY have different standards too. There is no mens rea requirement for civil fraud. In other words, you don't have to prove intent, just the actions.

 

[Say it aint so]

Check out this beaut from the Judge:

“He (Trump) also seems to imply that the numbers cannot be inflated because he could find a ‘buyer from Saudi Arabia’ to pay any price he suggests,” Engoron wrote.​

Then, in a conspicuously inserted footnote, Engoron added: “This statement may suggest influence buying more than savvy investing.”​

Remember this from Trump; "That just makes me look smart" ....or maybe it makes you look like an influence peddling fraud.

 

[JustOneWay]

Check out this beaut from the Judge:

“He (Trump) also seems to imply that the numbers cannot be inflated because he could find a ‘buyer from Saudi Arabia’ to pay any price he suggests,” Engoron wrote.​

Then, in a conspicuously inserted footnote, Engoron added: “This statement may suggest influence buying more than savvy investing.”​

Remember this from Trump; "That just makes me look smart" ....or maybe it makes you look like an influence peddling fraud.

I just read that somewhere else and wondered "what did Ivanka and Jarad have to offer in order to receive 2 billion dollars?"