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[MOVED]Are you lawless?

LoveofTruth

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Really? Give me at least two commandments that are new.


"34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." ( John 13:34 KJV)

and

"15 If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15 kjv)


"37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." (1 Corinthians 14;37 KJV) and Paul spoke by the Lord Jesus in him. Everything Paul wrote was the commandment of the lord for the church unless he said specifically they were not which he did only a few times. Paul did speak by jesus as we read, "Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you." ( 2 Cor 13:3KJV)

""22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment."( 1 John 3:22,23)

We see then that love and belief is explained in 1 John 5:1 "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.". There are also many things that Jesus said and commanded to his disciples and we should walk in the light of those in the anointing of God in us. To keep His word in our hearts and abide in that word.

"Mt 28:20 "teaching them to observe all that I commanded you""
 
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Meowzltov

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"15 If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15 kjv)

"37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord." (1 Corinthians 14;37 KJV) and Paul spoke by the Lord Jesus in him. Everything Paul wrote was the commandment of the lord for the church unless he said specifically they were not which he did only a few times. Paul did speak by jesus as we read, "Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, which to you-ward is not weak, but is mighty in you." ( 2 Cor 13:3KJV)
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""22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment."( 1 John 3:22,23)

We see then that love and belief is explained in 1 John 5:1 "Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.". There are also many things that Jesus said and commanded to his disciples and we should walk in the light of those in the anointing of God in us. To keep His word in our hearts and abide in that word.

"Mt 28:20 "teaching them to observe all that I commanded you""
These are not commandments, these are merely admonishments to keep the commandments. The Torah similarly has similar admonishments.
"The LORD will again delight in you and make you prosperous, just as he delighted in your ancestors, if you obey the LORD your God and keep his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Law and turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul." Deuteronomy 30:9-10

So you have "Love one another as I have loved you," which would mean love to the point of sacrificial death. I still need at least one other new commandment.
 
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LoveofTruth

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These are not commandments, these are merely admonishments to keep the commandments. The Torah similarly has similar admonishments.
"The LORD will again delight in you and make you prosperous, just as he delighted in your ancestors, if you obey the LORD your God and keep his commands and decrees that are written in this Book of the Law and turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul." Deuteronomy 30:9-10

So you have "Love one another as I have loved you," which would mean love to the point of sacrificial death. I still need at least one other new commandment.
No they are not they are commandments and i gave you many verses and some explaination in my previous post
 
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Meowzltov

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No they are not they are commandments and i gave you many verses and some explaination in my previous post
Still waiting for that second new commandment. I specifically asked for two new commandments because I knew that you could give me one.
 
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LoveofTruth

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Still waiting for that second new commandment. I specifically asked for two new commandments because I knew that you could give me one.
I gave you many

And if you love me keep my commandments ( plural) is not enough for you? Loving as he lived and burning are two main ones But Paul spike the commandments of the Lord and it was Jesus speaking in him. Also when Jesus spoke his commands on the sermon on the mount these are some more , love your enemies , give to everyone that ask , bless them that curse you etc eu.
 
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Meowzltov

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I gave you many

And if you love me keep my commandments ( plural) is not enough for you? Loving as he lived and burning are two main ones But Paul spike the commandments of the Lord and it was Jesus speaking in him. Also when Jesus spoke his commands on the sermon on the mount these are some more , love your enemies , give to everyone that ask , bless them that curse you etc eu.
I replied to this:
  • It is not a commandment but a general admonition to observe the commandments
  • Torah contains similar admonitions (I gave you a verse from the Torah)
  • Loving those that hate you is similarly in the Torah.
So you only gave me ONE law that was new. I'm still waiting for a second law. Can you give it to me? Something specific please.
 
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BobRyan

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I gave you many

And if you love me keep my commandments ( plural) is not enough for you?

Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
Ex 20:5 "Love Me and Keep My Commandments"
John 14:15 - If you Love Me, Keep My Commandments
 
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Meowzltov

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How about this one --
Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself"??
Bob, the question to him was to give me two new commandments Christ gave that are not in the Torah. Obviously you gave me one that is in the Torah, proving my point. :)
 
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LoveofTruth

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Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"
Ex 20:5 "Love Me and Keep My Commandments"
John 14:15 - If you Love Me, Keep My Commandments


"32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven." (John 6:32)

21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill;...22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." (Matthew 5:21,21 KJV)

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matthew 5:27,28 KJV)


31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery." (Matthew 5:31,32 KJV)




"3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only." (Matthew 17:3-8 KJV) Moses representing the law and Elijah the prophets, faded away and they saw only Jesus. Telling to those who have ears to hear.

"17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
"(John 1:17 KJV)
 
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LoveofTruth

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Bob, the question to him was to give me two new commandments Christ gave that are not in the Torah. Obviously you gave me one that is in the Torah, proving my point. :)

They didnt have him in the OT to look at as they had then and so Jesus said

""34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." ( John 13:34 KJV)

Jesus said that was a new commandment, you say it wasnt. I think you are not in the truth there. I will follow Jesus not your teaching.
 
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Meowzltov

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They didnt have him in the OT to look at as they had then and so Jesus said
This sentence has too many pronouns and unanswered questions. Who are then, when is then, and what is it Jesus said. Your sentence makes no sense.
 
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Wordkeeper

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Really? Give me at least two commandments that are new.


First, let's be clear what it means to be under the covenant of condemnation and death.

All covenants, agreements, have obligations, the first party will promise to work and the second will agree to pay, for example.

In the Covenant of Law, Israel agreed to obey all the 613 commandments of the agreement. In turn God promised to bless Israel.

Of course, the agreement also included all the penalties that would have to be suffered if either party failed to meet its obligations. If Israel failed, she would be cursed. If God failed, He would lose His claim to be God (obviously, because the definition of God is the One who can do anything, all things are possible with God).


Israel could not fulfil her obligations and was cursed. She was bitter and turned to idol worship. However, it was her fault. Scripture says her act in asking for a contract was like Sarah trying to become a mother through self effort. She had tried to become a blessing to the world through self effort, just as Sarah had tried to become a mother through self effort. The results brought suffering to both Sarah and Israel.

Her idol worship would have led to her extermination, like Sodom and Gomorrah, but for the remnant, a part of Israel that did not bow their knee to idol worship, Baal. They confessed they were sinners and asked for forgiveness. They received justification, confirmation that they were found righteous. For their sake, Israel was not destroyed. However, Israel remained under the curse. She never entered rest. God swore Israel would never enter rest. Even Joshua, who was loyal to God, never followed other gods, never brought Israel into rest, never saw God's promise, to make Abraham's Seed a blessing to the world, become a reality. That is why those under the Covenant of law were condemned (they were found not compliant) and died (did not become blessings to the world).

Only those who came under the covenant of grace saw God's promise fulfilled. He promised to make Abraham's Seed a blessing to the world, by making Him the real Promised Land, of which Canaan was only a foreshadow. He brought His real People, spiritual Israel, of which Abraham was the father, being the father of all who had faith in God, to the true rest, into which they could enter by hearing with faith.

What is rest? It is enjoying the priviliges of a family, eating without paying, buying without money.

We have already stated what the terms and conditions of the Covenant of Law was.

These then are the obligations of the Covenant of Grace. God's People promised to obey all the commandments of the new covenant. God, in turn promised to truly bless them, bring His People into rest.

The difference between Ishmael and Isaac was that the result of human effort, Ishmael, was a son born into slavery. Whereas the result of divine fulfillment to a promise, from just waiting for God's promise to become true, hearing with faith, was Isaac, a son born into the master's family, receiving all that the Master possessed.

How did a son born as a result of God's promise into the master's family receive the inheritance? By confirming he was truly a son of promise. He had to avoid using human effort and wait for the promise of God, that He would bless the person who had faith, just as He blessed Abraham, who was the father, the role model, the prototype, the blueprint, the cast from which every person who had faith was molded. The only thing he had to do was to believe, hear with faith. If he believed, there was nothing to prevent him from being baptised, from being cleansed by the word Christ speaks to all who believe He is the Messiah, the anointed One, who saves the world from its sins, by making acceptable, clean, able to enter the assembly of God's People, recognised as a son who was lost, and has now come back. This recognition confirmed by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, a deposit, a guarantee of a future gift of the inheritance, if he indeed had the Holy Spirit of Christ in Him. Because if he did indeed have the Holy Spirit, he would manifest His fruit, love joy peace gentleness and self control.

Now all he had to do to receive the inheritance was to complete as he had started, by hearing with faith. By hearing with faith that those who believed Christ was the Savior, he had become a son of God, was acceptable for baptism, a marking signifying that acceptance. Now by hearing with faith, believing that God would give him the inheritance due to a son, would give him a share in Christ, make him a blessing to the world, he would receive the inheritance, was acceptable for remaining in Christ, towards becoming a blessing to the world.

Obligations of the people: to hear with faith.

Obligations of God: to cleanse with the word the Body of Christ speaks, towards being baptised, marking as sons and daughters of God.

Further, they had to continue in hearing with faith.

God's obligation was to fulfill what they believed: that they would have a part in Christ, if they allowed Him to wash their feet, through the words His body speaks, to present them to God, blameless and clean, through the sufficiency of His grace.

Summary
Baptism, entry into God's People, is given to those who hear with faith, that Jesus is Lord,it is He who saves, not mammon.

A share in Christ, receiving of the inheritance, efficient grace, is given to those who hear with faith, who believe that if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us and the blood of his son Jesus cleanses us of all unrighteousness.

Conclusion
We can conclude, then, that the commandments of Christ, new and not found in Torah, are to believe unto receiving baptism/recognition/acceptance into God's People, His Chosen who lead mankind out of sin, and continue to believe, unto receiving ordination/commissioning/enlisting into Christ's inheritance, who lead mankind into God's rest.
 
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Poster0

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IF you believe in not living according to the commands of the New testament, then you believe that under grace its OK to steal, kill, fornicate, commit adultery, lie, hate, cheat, walk in pride, greed and strife, judge others, not forgive.

However if you believe in living by the commands of the New Testament, then you believe that its not ok to do those things under grace.

Its that simple. Why all the debate? The question is, do we want to do those things? If not then we agree that the law is good, but we are not. I try my best to obey the commands given by the Lord and his apostles, because i know its good. What else can i do?

Am i perfect? Nope, but that's why i am not under the law. I am set free from the law, so i can freely choose to obey it without it killing me, and if i fail at some point, which i will, then i only need to forgive myself and move forward. Of course im only referring to the commands that we are given in the New testament.


Romans 7:16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.
 
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Wordkeeper

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If thats not the way then let me die in ignorance because im too tired for anymore debate. I just want to rest from strife and finish my race.


That's sad. I don't want to complicate your life, but I'd like to let you know that the Gospel isn't a burden, in fact it lifts burdens:

Matthew 11:28"Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.

Receiving a gift, a blessing and not knowing what it is would be like Abraham becoming a father, and then going away on a long journey, rather than enjoying that gift.

The blessing will make you purposeful, and effective, give meaning to life:

John 4:10Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."

John 4:10Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

John 7:38He that believes on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

It would be such a waste to leave the gift unopened, the blessing unused.
 
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Rick Otto

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And yet Paul continued to do sacrifices in Act 18 and Acts 21 and there will be sacrifices during the Millennium. We now have a superior sacrifice, but the same basic law structure remained the same.
As well, Jesus hadn't fulfilled the law of sacrifice yet then, and hasn't yet re-instituted it.

It is counter-productive to use the ambiguous term "the law" .
There is no such unspecific thing as "the law".
 
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Sophrosyne

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As well, Jesus hadn't fulfilled the law of sacrifice yet then, and hasn't yet re-instituted it.

It is counter-productive to use the ambiguous term "the law" .
There is no such unspecific thing as "the law".
That is why some of us write "The law..... or the Law to denote the Mosaic Law or the Law of Moses
 
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Rick Otto

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That is why some of us write "The law..... or the Law to denote the Mosaic Law or the Law of Moses
Great.
That helps distinguish it from anything that might appropriately be called the law of God.
The ten commandments are the only ones He wrote, Himself.
 
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Sophrosyne

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Great.
That helps distinguish it from anything that might appropriately be called the law of God.
The ten commandments are the only ones He wrote, Himself.
They also play games with the word(s) commandment(s) too thinking anytime that word is written it refers to the Ten.
 
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