Jesus has broken the Sabbath

[Cornelius8L]

Let me help,

Suggest adjustment to: “So what is Colossians 2:14-17 talking about? The sacrificial system in both the weekly sabbath(s) and annual sabbath(s) feast-day ordinances that was used for the forgiveness of sins.”​

You may say it is not about the commandment in Exodus 20 but it sure relates to the weekly sabbath if we touch on the matter of sacrifices. Weekly Sabbath sacrifice is one of the instructions to keep the weekly sabbath in OT.

Also, there should be no requirement for sacred assemblies if ordinances are removed (Leviticus 23:3).

 

[Cornelius8L]

You are accusing Yeshua of sinning. I am sure He will not be found guilty. Have you not read all the Bible yet? Yeshua did not sin. Ever.

The bed carried by the healed man, was more accurately called a mat or cloth. A yoga mat or picnic blanket would be a modern equivalent. Yeshua healed him of his paralysis. Carrying his mat would not be a burden to him. His mat was a witness to everyone that had seen him paralyzed all the time.

Please understand, you are reading a translation of a translation. And from this, along with your limited understanding of Shabbat laws, and Jewish culture, you believe Yeshua was a sinner.


Yes any Jewish person knows these things. Please step down from your arrogant high horse before it bucks you into a pile of steaming you-know-what.

Please educate yourself on Shabbat laws and Jewish culture, before joining hands with the devil and falsely accusing our Messiah of not only breaking Shabbat, but also commanding others to do so as well. Even Pilate, who was not Jewish, understood Jewish culture at the time well enough to say "I find no fault in this man". King Herod also could not pin any crime on him.

Do you think Yeshua sinned in the following passages?

Ezekiel 14:9​

And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.​

​

Romans 9:11​

Yet before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad, in order that God’s plan of election might stand, not by works but by Him who calls, she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” So it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”​

If any human did the same thing mentioned in the above passages, is he sinning?

Since you seem to know a lot about the Sabbath law, can you share why a priest is allowed to break the Sabbath and why God did not ask the priest to offer a double portion before the weekly Sabbath, like how the Israeli collected the double portion manna before the weekly sabbath?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The Sabbath is made for man and the greek word here is human-beings. The same greek word is used at creation when God made man Genesis 1:26 right before the very first Sabbath celebrated in the presence of God!

Adam...אָדָ֛ם

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Let me help,

Suggest adjustment to: “So what is Colossians 2:14-17 talking about? The sacrificial system in both the weekly sabbath(s) and annual sabbath(s) feast-day ordinances that was used for the forgiveness of sins.”​

You may say it is not about the commandment in Exodus 20 but it sure relates to the weekly sabbath if we touch on the matter of sacrifices. Weekly Sabbath sacrifice is one of the instructions to keep the weekly sabbath in OT.

God said the weekly Sabbath is a commandment Exodus 34:28 found in Exodus 20 written by God’s own finger Exodus 31:18 and it is holy and blessed Exodus 20:8-11 so I am going to believe God on this one instead of mans opinion. Colossians 2:14-17 is clearly referring to ordinances not God’s eternal commandments. The weekly Sabbath was kept by the apostles long after Jesus ascended back to heaven and God’s moral law is revealed in Heaven Revelation 11:19 because no government can survive with lawlessness, which obviously includes the Sabbath Isaiah 66:22-23 the commandments came in a unit of Ten that God placed together that no man can separate, John says you break one commandment you break them all. James 2:10-12

We have free will, but God gives plenty of warnings in scripture to keep His commandments, which should be done through faith and love. 1 John 5:3, Romans 3:31

 

[Cornelius8L]

God said the weekly Sabbath is a commandment Exodus 34:28 found in Exodus 20 written by God’s own finger Exodus 31:18 and it is holy and blessed Exodus 20:8-11 so I am going to believe God on this one instead of mans opinion. Colossians 2:14-17 is clearly referring to ordinances not God’s eternal commandments. The weekly Sabbath was kept by the apostles long after Jesus ascended back to heaven and God’s moral law is revealed in Heaven Revelation 11:19 because no government can survive with lawlessness, which obviously includes the Sabbath Isaiah 66:22-23 the commandments came in a unit of Ten that God placed together that no man can separate, John says you break one commandment you break them all. James 2:10-12

We have free will, but God gives plenty of warnings in scripture to keep His commandments, which should be done through faith and love. 1 John 5:3, Romans 3:31

So you are not adding the weekly sabbath(s) into your paragraph although we only touch on the ordinances, specifically regarding sacrifices, not the commandment?

Anyway, I won’t visit other details regarding Sabbath Commandment since the thread is about whether Jesus breaks the Sabbath. I find it more relevant to discuss the definition of sin for God and men for now.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I find it more relevant to discuss the definition of sin for God and men for now.

Sin is defined as breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 and Paul points right to the Ten Commandments to define sin Romans 7:7. James said if you break one of these commandments again pointing to the Ten you break them all. James 2:10-12 The definition of sin has never changed throughout the scripture. Breaking God's law is sin and Jesus came to save us from our sins Matthew 1:21, not in them. We can gain victory over sin through Jesus Christ and He gives us His Spirit for those who wish to obey so we don't have to do it alone. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32

So you are not adding the weekly sabbath(s) into your paragraph although we only touch on the ordinances, specifically regarding sacrifices, not the commandment?

It's not about God's commandments, which the context Colossians 2:14 makes that abundantly clear. There is no animal sacrifices for sin, food or drink offerings in the Ten Commandments, this is what points out sin and why we need forgiveness when broken. Old Covenant animal sacrifices were needed for the forgiveness of sin, New Covenant Jesus became that Sacrifice for us and we can go directly to Him when we sin (break God's law) if we have a changed heart and repent and turn from sin and walk with Him in obedience.

Anway, hope you have a great day.

 

[guevaraj]

the verse says the ministry of death is written on stone.

Brother, it says that what is written in stone "led" to death, contrary to how it began in glory. The purpose of the Ten Commandments is to remove sin when obeyed, sin which leads to death. Somehow, the sin that it was meant to remove was not removed. Jesus explains who is responsible for this outcome in the next passage.

The old way, with laws etched in stone, led to death, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away. Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way, now that the Holy Spirit is giving life? If the old way, which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God! In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way. So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever! (2 Corinthians 3:7-11 NLT)​

Jesus explains how it led to death in the following passages and it is not what is written in stone that is responsible, but their human traditions are responsible for this outcome. What led to death is sin and their human traditions sabotaged God's Ten Commandments to not remove sin. For example, Judaism added a rule not to pronounce God's name so as not to misuse His name. This obeyed the law but sabotaged it to not remove sin that would have been removed had they obeyed what God asked instead of their own human rule.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)​

Here is an example from Jesus of how these added human traditions sabotaged God's Ten Commandments to not remove sin, sin which led to death.

Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:9-13 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, it says that what is written in stone "led" to death, contrary to how it began in glory. The purpose of the Ten Commandments is to remove sin when obeyed, sin which leads to death. Somehow, the sin that it was meant to remove was not removed. Jesus explains who is responsible for this outcome in the next passage.

The old way, with laws etched in stone, led to death, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away. Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way, now that the Holy Spirit is giving life? If the old way, which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God! In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way. So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever! (2 Corinthians 3:7-11 NLT)​

Jesus explains how it led to death in the following passages and it is not what is written in stone that is responsible, but their human traditions are responsible for this outcome. What led to death is sin and their human traditions sabotaged God's Ten Commandments to not remove sin. For example, Judaism added a rule not to pronounce God's name so as not to misuse His name. This obeyed the law but sabotaged it to not remove sin that would have been removed had they obeyed what God asked instead of their own human rule.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)​

Here is an example from Jesus of how these added human traditions sabotaged God's Ten Commandments to not remove sin, sin which led to death.

Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:9-13 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, may the Lord make his face shine on you and be gracious to you every day!

I'm glad you posted here. Maybe there's something in the Greek that can help. I'm not by any means an expert, so maybe I'm missing something.

Εἰ δὲ ἡ διακονία τοῦ θανάτου ἐν γράμμασιν ἐντετυπωμένη λίθοις

2 Corinthians 3:7 Interlinear: and if the ministration of the death, in letters, engraved in stones, came in glory, so that the sons of Israel were not able to look stedfastly to the face of Moses, because of the glory of his face -- which was being

διακονία is feminine, and ἐντετυπωμένη is also feminine. So in english, the verb engrave is referring to ministry.

So the thing engraved is ministry, which Paul then modifies as "the ministry of death".

United in discussing the scriptures in an edifying way!

 

[Lulav]

It is contradictory to believe both that Jesus was correct about it being lawful to heal on the Sabbath and the Pharisees were correct that Jesus broke the Sabbath by healing on it. It has always been lawful to heal on the Sabbath, so they were incorrect to think that Jesus had broken it, though John 5:18 accurately records the reasons that they had for why they wanted to kill him. Sin is the transgression of God's law, so to say that Jesus broke the Sabbath is to say that he sinned and to deny that he is our Savior.

There are a number of instances where God's laws appear to contradict, such as when God command priests to rest on the Sabbath while also commanding them to make offerings on the Sabbath (Numbers 28:9-10),

It is 'servile work' that isn't to be done on the Sabbath. Doing the rites of the priests are not servile work, but working for the LORD.

however, it was not the case that they were forced to sin by breaking one of the two commands no matter what they chose to do, but that the lesser commandment was never intended to be understood as preventing the greater commandment from being obeyed. This is why Jesus said in Matthew 12:5-7 that priests who did their duties on the Sabbath were held innocent, why David and his men were held innocent, and why Jesus defended his disciples as being innocent. This is also why it is lawful to circumcise a baby boy on the 8th day if it happens to fall on the Sabbath or why it is lawful to get an ox or a child out of a ditch on the Sabbath.

Priests were obeying the LORD by performing their duties on Shabbat.
David and his men were starving and life is held over many commandments.
The disciples were not harvesting as accused but rather picking of grains as they walked through the field.

The Pharisees had reasoned that healing was work and that work is unlawful on the Sabbath, therefore it is unlawful to heal on the Sabbath. However, we are also commanded to love our neighbor and it would not be loving our neighbor to refuse to heal them, and no command was intended to be understood as preventing the greatest two commandments from being obeyed, which is why Jesus correctly ruled that it is lawful to heal on the Sabbath.

Yes, mercy over sacrifice. It is easy to say you can't do such and such because it's Shabbat and you need your rest. But sacrificing your rest to help another is what God wants from us.

 

[Lulav]

I believe the sabbath was a sign for the people of Israel to keep as a sign that through their God their messiah who is Jesus they would find rest. One day needed to be set apart so that people had a chance to get together to help each other know the law and keep it so that the rest of their week labour would not be aimless but doing all work for the Lord. I believe Jesus does bless the sabbath day but it is not required for salvation but Jesus will bring people to keep it in last days to sanctify them to better use them for ministry for people to be saved that all will or to sanctify them to preserve them to be saved now or there will be sabbaths in new earth.

The object of keeping the Sabbath is an outward testimony to who the God of Israel is, the Creator of all.

The scriptures are giving an account for what others accused Him of, sadly many people take these scriptures to try to make a case of Jesus sinning and if that were true, there would be no hope for any of us.

That is correct! Who would look for a way to accuse him?

You're the next one who doesn't have read my text correctly. Neither I nor the Jews claim that Jesus broke the Sabbath because he healed the man. It is not that he did a good deed. It is that he commanded the healed man to carry the bed. Commanding a man to carry his bed has nothing to do with a good work. It was simply not necessary for this man to carry his bed on this day. The law says you shall not carry any burden on the Sabbath.

He told him to pick up his mat and walk. It was a testimony of his healing. What he carried was not a burden.

Jeremiah 21
21 Thus saith Jehovah, Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem; 22 neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work: but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers.

There is no Jeremiah 21:21 You are quoting from Jeremiah 17:verse 21.

@Emun If you read the passage carefully it was about doing commerce in the city. Taking out your wares out of your house, bringing them in through the gates etc.

It may help you to study this time period after Israel was allowed to return to the land. A contemporary of Jeremiah was Nehemiah. This passage may help you to understand Jeremiah 17.

Neh 13:15 In those days I saw people in Judah treading winepresses on the Sabbath, and bringing in sheaves, and loading donkeys with wine, grapes, figs, and all kinds of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the Sabbath day. And I warned them about the day on which they were selling provisions. 16 Men of Tyre dwelt there also, who brought in fish and all kinds of goods, and sold them on the Sabbath to the children of Judah, and in Jerusalem.​

​

17 Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said to them, “What evil thing is this that you do, by which you profane the Sabbath day? 18 Did not your fathers do thus, and did not our God bring all this disaster on us and on this city? Yet you bring added wrath on Israel by profaning the Sabbath.”​

​

19 So it was, at the gates of Jerusalem, as it began to be dark before the Sabbath, that I commanded the gates to be shut, and charged that they must not be opened till after the Sabbath. Then I posted some of my servants at the gates, so that no burdens would be brought in on the Sabbath day. 20 Now the merchants and sellers of all kinds of wares lodged outside Jerusalem once or twice.​

​

 

[Fervent]

Brother, it says that what is written in stone "led" to death, contrary to how it began in glory. The purpose of the Ten Commandments is to remove sin when obeyed, sin which leads to death. Somehow, the sin that it was meant to remove was not removed. Jesus explains who is responsible for this outcome in the next passage.

The old way, with laws etched in stone, led to death, though it began with such glory that the people of Israel could not bear to look at Moses’ face. For his face shone with the glory of God, even though the brightness was already fading away. Shouldn’t we expect far greater glory under the new way, now that the Holy Spirit is giving life? If the old way, which brings condemnation, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new way, which makes us right with God! In fact, that first glory was not glorious at all compared with the overwhelming glory of the new way. So if the old way, which has been replaced, was glorious, how much more glorious is the new, which remains forever! (2 Corinthians 3:7-11 NLT)​

Jesus explains how it led to death in the following passages and it is not what is written in stone that is responsible, but their human traditions are responsible for this outcome. What led to death is sin and their human traditions sabotaged God's Ten Commandments to not remove sin. For example, Judaism added a rule not to pronounce God's name so as not to misuse His name. This obeyed the law but sabotaged it to not remove sin that would have been removed had they obeyed what God asked instead of their own human rule.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)​

Here is an example from Jesus of how these added human traditions sabotaged God's Ten Commandments to not remove sin, sin which led to death.

Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:9-13 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Could you show me the verb "led" in the Greek?

 

[guevaraj]

Brother, may the Lord make his face shine on you and be gracious to you every day! I'm glad you posted here. Maybe there's something in the Greek that can help. I'm not by any means an expert, so maybe I'm missing something. Εἰ δὲ ἡ διακονία τοῦ θανάτου ἐν γράμμασιν ἐντετυπωμένη λίθοις

2 Corinthians 3:7 Interlinear: and if the ministration of the death, in letters, engraved in stones, came in glory, so that the sons of Israel were not able to look stedfastly to the face of Moses, because of the glory of his face -- which was being

διακονία is feminine, and ἐντετυπωμένη is also feminine. So in english, the verb engrave is referring to ministry. So the thing engraved is ministry, which Paul then modifies as "the ministry of death". United in discussing the scriptures in an edifying way!

Could you show me the verb "led" in the Greek?

Brothers, perhaps an analogy can help you see the relationship between the words "party" and "announced", referring to how it began instead of the cause of the heart attack that took place at the party.

But if the party of the heart attack, announced on the gold leaflet, was fun, so that the children couldn't stare into their father's face because of the fun in his countenance, fun that was passing away, (2 Corinthians 3:7 NKJV analogized)​

"Did the law, which is good, cause my death? Of course not!" The ministry of death is found in Judaism, which started in glory with the Ten Commandments written in stone. Paul says that "sin took advantage of those commands and deceived me". Sin is the cause that turned what was good against us. Jesus tells us in the following passage that the problem is us humans who are "blind guides", making up our own way instead of following God's way.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)​

Paul tells us the problem is not with the law of God but with the sin in us. The solution is Jesus as our High Priest to free us from our slavery to sin through practice, allowing what the law could not do to help us remove sin. Allow our growth through practice thanks to Jesus’ cycle of forgiveness as our High Priest.

Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, “You must not covet.” But sin used this command to arouse all kinds of covetous desires within me! If there were no law, sin would not have that power. At one time I lived without understanding the law. But when I learned the command not to covet, for instance, the power of sin came to life, and I died. So I discovered that the law’s commands, which were supposed to bring life, brought spiritual death instead. Sin took advantage of those commands and deceived me; it used the commands to kill me. But still, the law itself is holy, and its commands are holy and right and good. But how can that be? Did the law, which is good, cause my death? Of course not! Sin used what was good to bring about my condemnation to death. So we can see how terrible sin really is. It uses God’s good commands for its own evil purposes. So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin. (Romans 7:7-14 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Fervent]

Brothers, perhaps an analogy can help you see the relationship between the words "party" and "announced", referring to how it began instead of the cause of the heart attack that took place at the party.

But if the party of the heart attack, announced on the gold leaflet, was fun, so that the children couldn't stare into their father's face because of the fun in his countenance, fun that was passing away, (2 Corinthians 3:7 NKJV analogized)​

"Did the law, which is good, cause my death? Of course not!" The ministry of death is found in Judaism, which started in glory with the Ten Commandments written in stone. Paul says that "sin took advantage of those commands and deceived me". Sin is the cause that turned what was good against us. Jesus tells us in the following passage that the problem is us humans who are "blind guides", making up our own way instead of following God's way.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)​

Paul tells us the problem is not with the law of God but with the sin in us. The solution is Jesus as our High Priest to free us from our slavery to sin through practice, allowing what the law could not do to help us remove sin. Allow our growth through practice thanks to Jesus’ cycle of forgiveness as our High Priest.

Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, “You must not covet.” But sin used this command to arouse all kinds of covetous desires within me! If there were no law, sin would not have that power. At one time I lived without understanding the law. But when I learned the command not to covet, for instance, the power of sin came to life, and I died. So I discovered that the law’s commands, which were supposed to bring life, brought spiritual death instead. Sin took advantage of those commands and deceived me; it used the commands to kill me. But still, the law itself is holy, and its commands are holy and right and good. But how can that be? Did the law, which is good, cause my death? Of course not! Sin used what was good to bring about my condemnation to death. So we can see how terrible sin really is. It uses God’s good commands for its own evil purposes. So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin. (Romans 7:7-14 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

I haven't the foggiest what your analogy is supposed to demonstrate, especially since I see neither correspondance nor does the sentence you've produced for analogy seem coherent.

 

[Cornelius8L]

Sin is defined as breaking God's law 1 John 3:4 and Paul points right to the Ten Commandments to define sin Romans 7:7. James said if you break one of these commandments again pointing to the Ten you break them all. James 2:10-12 The definition of sin has never changed throughout the scripture. Breaking God's law is sin and Jesus came to save us from our sins Matthew 1:21, not in them. We can gain victory over sin through Jesus Christ and He gives us His Spirit for those who wish to obey so we don't have to do it alone. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32


It's not about God's commandments, which the context Colossians 2:14 makes that abundantly clear. There is no animal sacrifices for sin, food or drink offerings in the Ten Commandments, this is what points out sin and why we need forgiveness when broken. Old Covenant animal sacrifices were needed for the forgiveness of sin, New Covenant Jesus became that Sacrifice for us and we can go directly to Him when we sin (break God's law) if we have a changed heart and repent and turn from sin and walk with Him in obedience.

Anway, hope you have a great day.

TGIF Whether it is about the commandments, that was not my point this round. But if we touch on the removal of sacrifices, then both the weekly sabbath and annual sabbath have to come in.

I understand sin as missing the mark or missing the point. One’s blindness does not excuse his guilt (Leviticus 5:15-17, Luke 12:47). We keep the accurate laws and commandments. When the original text Bible uses the word “commandments ἐντολῆς (entolēs),” it refers to all sorts of commands. For example, John 11:57, refers to a command by chief priests and Pharisees to seize Jesus. John 10:18 and 12:49 refer to a specific command to Jesus by the Father. Acts 17:15, those who escorted Paul received a commandment for Silas and Timothy to come as soon as possible. Colossians 4:10 refers to instructions that they have received concerning Mark. Titus 1:14 refers to the commandments of men. So there are many places where commandments ἐντολῆς (entolēs) do not refer to the Ten Commandments.

Then, why God Himself is not sinning when He is deceiving others (Ezekiel 14:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:11)? Maybe we have misunderstood sin because no matter what God did, He will not be counted as sinned.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

He told him to pick up his mat and walk. It was a testimony of his healing. What he carried was not a burden.

His affliction was his burden and Yeshua lifted it for him

 

[Lulav]

Not so straightforward. Since God is love, Jesus is love. But this Love (Jesus) said, “Disregard them! They are blind guides. If a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into a pit (Mark 7:14-23).” When the Law said, “‘Cursed is he who lets a blind man wander in the road.’ And let all the people say, ‘Amen!’ (Deuteronomy 27:18)” – This is breaking the law. Likewise, for not keeping the law by letting an adulteress go (John 8:3-5, Leviticus 20:10).

He was not letting a blind man wander in the road. He was warning them not to follow them lest they fall into the same fate as they would.

The bed carried by the healed man, was more accurately called a mat or cloth. A yoga mat or picnic blanket would be a modern equivalent. Yeshua healed him of his paralysis. Carrying his mat would not be a burden to him. His mat was a witness to everyone that had seen him paralyzed all the time.

Yes, the Greek seems to make it look like a 'camping bed' or cot. Which was probably something well known back then.

 

[Cornelius8L]

He was not letting a blind man wander in the road. He was warning them not to follow them lest they fall into the same fate as they would.

Hi, I have responded to this in post #29

 

[Leaf473]

Brothers, perhaps an analogy can help you see the relationship between the words "party" and "announced", referring to how it began instead of the cause of the heart attack that took place at the party.

But if the party of the heart attack, announced on the gold leaflet, was fun, so that the children couldn't stare into their father's face because of the fun in his countenance, fun that was passing away, (2 Corinthians 3:7 NKJV analogized)​

"Did the law, which is good, cause my death? Of course not!" The ministry of death is found in Judaism, which started in glory with the Ten Commandments written in stone. Paul says that "sin took advantage of those commands and deceived me". Sin is the cause that turned what was good against us. Jesus tells us in the following passage that the problem is us humans who are "blind guides", making up our own way instead of following God's way.

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)​

Paul tells us the problem is not with the law of God but with the sin in us. The solution is Jesus as our High Priest to free us from our slavery to sin through practice, allowing what the law could not do to help us remove sin. Allow our growth through practice thanks to Jesus’ cycle of forgiveness as our High Priest.

Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, “You must not covet.” But sin used this command to arouse all kinds of covetous desires within me! If there were no law, sin would not have that power. At one time I lived without understanding the law. But when I learned the command not to covet, for instance, the power of sin came to life, and I died. So I discovered that the law’s commands, which were supposed to bring life, brought spiritual death instead. Sin took advantage of those commands and deceived me; it used the commands to kill me. But still, the law itself is holy, and its commands are holy and right and good. But how can that be? Did the law, which is good, cause my death? Of course not! Sin used what was good to bring about my condemnation to death. So we can see how terrible sin really is. It uses God’s good commands for its own evil purposes. So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin. (Romans 7:7-14 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, may the Lord make his face shine on you and be gracious to you every day!

But if the party of the heart attack, announced on the gold leaflet...

Okay, so party was announced,
that corresponds to ministry was engraved.

Did the announcing cause the party? No. Did the engraving cause the ministry? No.

But it was the ministry that was engraved, just as it was the party that was announced.

United in discussing the scriptures in an edifying way!

 

[Leaf473]

TGIF Whether it is about the commandments, that was not my point this round. But if we touch on the removal of sacrifices, then both the weekly sabbath and annual sabbath have to come in.

I understand sin as missing the mark or missing the point. One’s blindness does not excuse his guilt (Leviticus 5:15-17, Luke 12:47). We keep the accurate laws and commandments. When the original text Bible uses the word “commandments ἐντολῆς (entolēs),” it refers to all sorts of commands. For example, John 11:57, refers to a command by chief priests and Pharisees to seize Jesus. John 10:18 and 12:49 refer to a specific command to Jesus by the Father. Acts 17:15, those who escorted Paul received a commandment for Silas and Timothy to come as soon as possible. Colossians 4:10 refers to instructions that they have received concerning Mark. Titus 1:14 refers to the commandments of men. So there are many places where commandments ἐντολῆς (entolēs) do not refer to the Ten Commandments.

Then, why God Himself is not sinning when He is deceiving others (Ezekiel 14:9, 2 Thessalonians 2:11)? Maybe we have misunderstood sin because no matter what God did, He will not be counted as sinned.

Building on the idea of God deceiving:

People often focus on The Sabbath was made for man. But Jesus also says that the son of man is Lord of the Sabbath.

There are things that, if an ordinary human did them, would be breaking the Sabbath. But Jesus (and we as the body of Christ) stands above the Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

TGIF Whether it is about the commandments, that was not my point this round. But if we touch on the removal of sacrifices, then both the weekly sabbath and annual sabbath have to come in.

Well if we are to believe in God's Word, we should believe that God's saint keeps God's commandments, it is the fruit of a saved person so it should be something we all strive for because I do not think the saints means the lost.

Revelation14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

The Sabbath God deemed one of His Ten Commandments written by His own finger, so I am going to place my trust that it's something we are to keep since it is what He told us to right in the Sabbath commandment. Exodus 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Exodus 34:28 28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

There is no scripture in the entire bible that says we are free to break any of God's commandments which includes the weekly Sabbath commandment Exodus 20:8-11. Colossians 2:14-17 is referring to sacrificial ordinances, it does not say commandments. Just because sacrifices ended on the first day doesn't remove the first day or the second or the Sabbath day. Obviously, the Sabbath continues forever Isaiah 66:22-23 just as God promised.

Anyway, I don't think we are going to agree and that's okay. The scripture references are there if interested. I actually didn't mean to jump in this tread again, I am going to sign out and unfollow. I wish you well in seeking His Word.