Jesus has broken the Sabbath

[SabbathBlessings]

It does, but Acts, Exodus, and Genesis are not the context of Colossians.

You're right, Colossians 2:14-17 has nothing to do with the Sabbath commandment. So not sure why that was used as a reference, when my post was referring to the Sabbath commandment.

 

[Fervent]

You're right, Colossians 2:14-17 has nothing to do with the Sabbath commandment. So not sure why that was used as a reference, when my post was referring to the Sabbath commandment.

Totally, "Sabbath" does not refer to the Sabbath.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Totally, "Sabbath" does not refer to the Sabbath.

Not always, there is more than one Sabbath in the scriptures and the context makes it clear which it is referring to. The weekly Sabbath is the commandment of God personally written by God's own finger Exodus 31:18 and is part of a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 that God placed together and it is in the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy of God's Temple under His mercy seat where He dwells and is revealed in heaven and is part of God's eternal commandments. Revelation 11:19

The other sabbath(s) are ordinances handwritten by Moses. They serve different purposes. One was added because of sin the other points out sin. James 2:10-12

 

[Fervent]

Not always, there is more than one Sabbath in the scriptures and the context makes it clear which it is referring to. The weekly Sabbath is the commandment of God personally written by God's own finger Exodus 31:18 and is part of a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 that God placed together and it is in the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy of God's Temple under His mercy seat where He dwells and is revealed in heaven and is part of God's eternal commandments. Revelation 11:19

The other sabbath(s) are ordinances handwritten by Moses. They serve different purposes. One was added because of sin the other points out sin. James 2:10-12

How does "the context make it clear?" You keep referencing the context, but not once has Colossians come into what you say.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

How does "the context make it clear?" You keep referencing the context, but not once has Colossians come into what you say.

It's very clear....

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

So we know this from Colossians 2:14:
1. They are handwritten
2. They are ordinances
3. They are contrary.

Does this fit the Sabbath commandment in any way? Absolutely not.
1. The Sabbath was finger-written by God Exodus 31:18
2. The Sabbath is a commandment of God. Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28
3. God said the Sabbath is holy and blessed Exodus 20:8-11


Nehemiah 9:13
“You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments.

 

[Fervent]

It's very clear....

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

So we know this from Colossians 2:14:
1. They are handwritten
2. They are ordinances
3. They are contrary.

Does this fit the Sabbath commandment in any way? Absolutely not.
1. The Sabbath was finger-written by God Exodus 31:18
2. The Sabbath is a commandment of God. Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28
3. God said the Sabbath is holy and blessed Exodus 20:8-11


Nehemiah 9:13
“You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments.

You're wading out into waters far deeper than I'm willing to follow, and making inferences that I do not see justified in the text.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You're wading out into waters far deeper than I'm willing to follow, and making inferences that I do not see justified in the text.

It's really spelled out and Isaiah 66:22-23 Revelation 11:19 makes it very clear God did not erase one of His commandments. There is no scripture in all the bible that says we no longer need to keep one of God's commandments.

 

[Fervent]

It's really spelled out and Isaiah 66:22-23 Revelation 11:19 makes it very clear God did not erase one of His commandments. There is no scripture in all the bible that says we no longer need to keep one of God's commandments.

Got it, there's nothing new in the new covenant.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Got it, there's nothing new in the new covenant.

These are your words not mine. There are some changes in the NC but the Ten Commandments has the same role to reveal sin. Roman’s 7:7, James 2:10-12. Instead of being written on stone they are written in the hearts and minds of His New Covenant believers Hebrews 8:10 and we keep the commandments through love John 14:15 1 John 5:3 and faith Romans 3:31

Need to sign off for now.

God bless!

 

[Fervent]

These are your words not mine. There are some changes in the NC but the Ten Commandments has the same role to reveal sin. Roman’s 7:7, James 2:10-12. Instead of being written on stone they are written in the hearts and minds of His New Covenant believers Hebrews 8:10 and we keep the commandments through love John 14:15 1 John 5:3 and faith Romans 3:31

Need to sign off for now.

God bless!

So what's this about:

Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end,(2 Cor. 3:7)

 

[Leaf473]

So what's this about:

Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end,

Thank you for posting that, I never saw this before,

That what is written on our hearts is not the ministry of death, as far as I can tell. But what is engraved on the stone is the ministry of death.

So it looks like what is engraved on the stone is not written on our hearts.

 

[Fervent]

Thank you for posting that, I never saw this before,

That what is written on our hearts is not the ministry of death, as far as I can tell. But what is engraved on the stone is the ministry of death.

So it looks like what is engraved on the stone is not written on our hearts.

Yes, though that is not to say the law in itself is the ministry of death but sin grabbing hold of the law.(a la Romans 7)

Ultimately, it's not the law that is the problem but an understanding of the law. It was never meant to function as an inflexible standard to apply without thinking, but the means for the Israelite to live in relationship with God. We set it aside not because its standards are not good and holy, but because now our relationship is had through communion with Christ. So it has not been annulled, but it is no longer our primary means of relating to God.

 

[Cornelius8L]

Not sure if you noticed but your argument went from completely changing what God said about His Sabbath commandment to now saying it ended at the cross.

Hopefully this will help…

It seems to be a common theme for those who think the Sabbath commandment ended to use Colossians 2:16-17. I would like to take a look at this scriptures and see if what Paul is talking about is one of God’s commandments.

The first step is understanding if commandments are ordinances.

Nehemiah 9:13
“You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments.

Scripture shows ordinances are not commandments and commandments are not ordinances- they are separated.

Most when quoting Colossians 2:16-17 never back up to Colossians 2:14 for some reason which plainly gives the context.

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

So we know this from Colossians 2:14:
1. They are handwritten
2. They are ordinances
3. They are contrary.

Does this fit the Sabbath commandment in any way? Absolutely not.
1. The Sabbath was finger-written by God Exodus 31:18
2. The Sabbath is a commandment of God. Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28
3. God said the Sabbath is holy and blessed Exodus 20:8-11

Colossians 2:14 certainly does not fit with the Sabbath commandment so not sure why so many people try to force this to fit despite the facts clearly showing it is not referring to the weekly Sabbath commandment.

Are there other sabbath(s) in scripture called ordinances that would lead us to the correct context of this passage? What does the scripture say?

2 Chronicles 33:8
Neither will I any more remove the foot of Israel from out of the land which I have appointed for your fathers; so that they will take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.

Moses hand-wrote the ordinances and the hand of Moses is not the same as the finger of God.

Ezekiel 43:18
And He said to me, “Son of man, thus says the Lord God: ‘These are the ordinances for the altar on the day when it is made, for sacrificing burnt offerings on it, and for sprinkling blood on it.

So what is Colossians 2:14-17 talking about? The sacrificial system in the annual sabbath(s) feast-day ordinances that was used for the forgiveness of sins. These all point to Jesus because He became our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we turn from sin and through Jesus He can give us a new heart and enables us to keep His commandments through love and faith. John 14:15-18, Romans 3:31. The blood of animals made nothing perfect Hebrews 10, but the blood of Christ can cleanse from all sins, when we turn from sin and walk with Christ in obedience to Him. The annual sacrificial sabbath(s) all came after the fall of man. The seventh day Sabbath is part of Creation Genesis 2:1-3 and was part of God’s perfect plan before the fall of man and sin. The sacrificial system was because of sin. These two sabbaths are very different and if one allowed the scriptures to reveal the context, this would be easy to understand that God did not do away with the one commandment He said to Remember and the only commandment that uses the word holy and blessed. Obviously it is not referring to the seventh day Sabbath as shown from Matthew 24:20, Isaiah 66:22-23, Revelation 14:12. Revelation 22:14-15 and the fact the apostles kept the Sabbath long after Jesus ascended back to heaven. Acts 18:4, Acts 13:44, Acts 13:42

There is no scripture that says we can break the commandments of God. The Sabbath is part of a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 that God placed together and cannot be separated, changed, deleted or removed. Sin is the transgression of God’s law 1 John 3:4 and Paul quotes right to the 10 to point out sin. Romans 7:7

It’s sad so much energy goes in trying to disprove one of God’s finger-written Ten Commandments instead of just obeying God.

You may want to edit this copy-paste template if you cannot remove Numbers 28:9-10. Otherwise, kindly include why Numbers 28:9-10 is not talking about additional sacrifices on the weekly Sabbath Day.

Numbers 28:9-10​

9On the Sabbath day, present two unblemished year-old male lambs, accompanied by a grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, as well as a drink offering. 10This is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, in addition to the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.​

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You may want to edit this copy-paste template

Hi there,

You might want to consider asking first before making statements as facts when they are anything but. For your reference, it was from my own personal bible study and I originally posted it here.

Ordinances

It seems to be a common theme for those who think the Sabbath commandment ended to use Colossians 2:16-17. I would like to take a look at this scriptures and see if what Paul is talking about is one of God’s commandments. The first step is understanding if commandments are ordinances...

www.christianforums.com

if you cannot remove Numbers 28:9-10. Otherwise, kindly include why Numbers 28:9-10 is not talking about additional sacrifices on the weekly Sabbath Day.

Numbers 28:9-10​

9On the Sabbath day, present two unblemished year-old male lambs, accompanied by a grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil, as well as a drink offering. 10This is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, in addition to the regular burnt offering and its drink offering.​

This verse is referring to two different things- the Sabbath and sacrificial sin offerings. There were daily offerings Exodus 20:38 Do people sin daily? Yes. Before Jesus became our Sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins, this was the way to receive forgiveness for sins. Now we can go directly to Jesus because of His great sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we repent and turn from sin (breaking God’s law) 1 John 3:4.

The Ten Commandments which includes the Sabbath commandment Exodus 34:28, Exodus 20 is what points out sin when broken so we know what not to do. Romans 7:7, 1 John 3:4. Jesus took the place of animal sacrifices Hebrews 10, Colossians 2:14 so we no longer sacrifice animals daily, including on the Sabbath. Animals sacrifice was because of sin when breaking God’s law and of course includes the 4th commandment which is part of God’s moral and righteous commandments.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So what's this about:

Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end,(2 Cor. 3:7)

Sure. What is sin?

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
Romans 7:7 I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Paul points right to the Ten Commandments to define sin.

What is the penalty of sin?

The wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23

The law is not the ministry of death, sin is (breaking God's law). Just think about it for a moment- for example- thou shalt not worship other gods Exodus 20:3- in keeping this is the ministry of death? Sad people try to make this argument.

Through Jesus when we have a changed heart and repent and turn from sin and walk with Him in obedience He can cleanse us from our sins and if we want to obey He gives us His Spirit so we don’t have to do it alone. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32

 

[Yekcidmij]

You are accusing Yeshua of sinning. I am sure He will not be found guilty. Have you not read all the Bible yet? Yeshua did not sin. Ever.

The bed carried by the healed man, was more accurately called a mat or cloth. A yoga mat or picnic blanket would be a modern equivalent. Yeshua healed him of his paralysis. Carrying his mat would not be a burden to him. His mat was a witness to everyone that had seen him paralyzed all the time.

That's what I think. "Bearing a burden" is intended to be understood within the context of physical/manual labor - ie, "work," as in the laborous things we do all day, day in and day out to sustain ourselves. Carrying a mat after being healed hardly seems to be anywhere near within the scope of that command. If we made it such an absolutist statement then we would end up with more absurdities such as a prohibition against picking up your toddler to play with on the Sabbath (around a 20lb burden) or maybe even wearing a hat or shirt on Sabbath (both are ever so slightly burdens).

There is no reason in John 5 to think that Jesus' opponents are correct in their interpretation or application of the law. If anything, the intent is to show that Jesus, not them, gives the correct understanding. And this places the OP in a weird spot where he's agreeing that Jesus' opponents are indeed correct.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

And this places the OP in a weird spot where he's agreeing that Jesus' opponents are indeed correct.

Exactly. It's sad some take the side of the people who falsely accused Jesus and crucified Him for no reason. It's like crucifying Him all over again instead of thanking Jesus every day for His great sacrifice so we can be forgiven of our sins when we repent and turn to Him and one day those who accept this great sacrifice and believe in Him and His Word, we will be able enter into His Kingdom and be with Jesus forevermore.

 

[Fervent]

Sure. What is sin?

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
Romans 7:7 I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Paul points right to the Ten Commandments to define sin.

What is the penalty of sin?

The wages of sin is death. Romans 6:23

The law is not the ministry of death, sin is. Just think about it for a moment- for example- thou shalt not worship other gods Exodus 20:3- in keeping this is the ministry of death? Sad people try to make this argument.

Through Jesus when we have a changed heart and repent and turn from sin and walk with Him in obedience He can cleanse us from our sins and if we want to obey He gives us His Spirit so we don’t have to do it alone. John 14:15-18, Acts 5:32

where is sin carved on stone?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

where is sin carved on stone?

I thought my post explained it pretty well. Jesus has broken the Sabbath Many misunderstand Paul's writings- we even have a warning in scripture about it. 2 Peter 3:16. Sadly, many people would rather get rid of all the commandments instead of dealing with one of them.

Obviously if the Ten Commandments was something bad it wouldn't be a teaching of Jesus who kept them and chastised others for not keeping them John 15:10, John 14:15, Matthew 15:3-9, Matthew 19:17-19 and they certainly would not be in the Most Holy where God dwells. Revelation 11:19

Paul is not contradicting himself when he says what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19 but is in harmony with God and Jesus holy commandments that we should keep through love and faith. John 14:15, 1 John 5:3, Revelation14:12, Exodus 20:6 Romans 3:31

Anyway, take care.

 

[Emun]

And this places the OP in a weird spot where he's agreeing that Jesus' opponents are indeed correct.

The Jews also accused Jesus of claiming to be God. And they are right. The Jews of that time who knew the Torah very well realized through Jesus' statements that Jesus claimed to be God. As you can see, the Jews do not always have to be wrong.

I have already provided clear evidence that Jesus clearly broke the Sabbath. But if that is not enough, I would like to point to Augustine, perhaps the greatest church father. He agrees that Jesus broke the Sabbath and explains it by saying that the Sabbath is only a foreshadow. CHURCH FATHERS: Tractates on the Gospel of John (Augustine)