Jesus has broken the Sabbath

[Yekcidmij]

Exodus 34:28 28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

That verse in Ex 34 is interesting because the list of commandments in Ex 34 is not the same as Ex 20 or Deut 5. Out of curiosity, do you keep all of the commands in Ex 34?

 

[eleos1954]

John 5:18
For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

I am aware that most commentators are of the opinion that Jesus did not break the Sabbath and that the Jews had falsely accused him, but if you look at it more closely, the Jews were actually right in their accusation that Jesus broke the Sabbath.

Reason:
The law says you shall not bear any burden on the Sabbath (Jeremiah 17:21-22). That this commandment is to be understood in exactly this way can be seen from the fact that God had a man stoned to death for carrying only wood on the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36). Jesus broke this commandment by commanding the healed man to carry his bed (John 5:10-11). The Jews were right in their accusation in this regard. And the clear proof that Jesus broke the Sabbath lies in the fact that John the author of the Gospel agrees with this in verse 18. If Jesus had not broken the Sabbath, he would not have expressed himself in this way but would have made it clear that the Jews were lying.

The reason why Jesus broke the ceremonial commandments like the Sabbath was not because he was a sinner for he is sinless but because he wanted to show that these commandments are to be understood spiritually. The Sabbath was never to be the seventh day of the week. The Sabbath was Jesus Christ, who is the true rest in which we should enter, as Paul said. Paul also said that God never wanted animal sacrifices, but that the true sacrifice is Jesus. The Old Testament is only a shadow, the New Testament is the fulfilment and the reality.

The Jews had added their own "rules" regarding the keeping of the 7th day Sabbath and Jesus took exception to that .... Jesus said one could do good on the Sabbath. He healed the man on the 7th day Sabbath and that is good.

Jesus does not break His commandments .... ever.

The 7th Day Sabbath is not ceremonial law .... it defines God as the creator and being so establishes His authority over all.

Some may "think" they can change the 7th Day Sabbath ..... God created the day and that fact can not be changed.

Daniel 7:25
BRG
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Matthew 5
17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

19So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Think...]

John 5:18
For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

I am aware that most commentators are of the opinion that Jesus did not break the Sabbath and that the Jews had falsely accused him, but if you look at it more closely, the Jews were actually right in their accusation that Jesus broke the Sabbath.

Reason:
The law says you shall not bear any burden on the Sabbath (Jeremiah 17:21-22). That this commandment is to be understood in exactly this way can be seen from the fact that God had a man stoned to death for carrying only wood on the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-36). Jesus broke this commandment by commanding the healed man to carry his bed (John 5:10-11). The Jews were right in their accusation in this regard. And the clear proof that Jesus broke the Sabbath lies in the fact that John the author of the Gospel agrees with this in verse 18. If Jesus had not broken the Sabbath, he would not have expressed himself in this way but would have made it clear that the Jews were lying.

The reason why Jesus broke the ceremonial commandments like the Sabbath was not because he was a sinner for he is sinless but because he wanted to show that these commandments are to be understood spiritually. The Sabbath was never to be the seventh day of the week. The Sabbath was Jesus Christ, who is the true rest in which we should enter, as Paul said. Paul also said that God never wanted animal sacrifices, but that the true sacrifice is Jesus. The Old Testament is only a shadow, the New Testament is the fulfilment and the reality.

Though the book of John uses those words, there is no argument, it cannot mean what so many wish for it to mean.

There are multiple reasons why that are far more supported by Scripture than the idea that Jesus sinned by breaking the Sabbath.

First, the taking of corn from others' fields, or the taking of grapes from others' vines, is made clear in Leviticus to be completely allowed, and not a sin of any kind, as long as they are just picking from the plant and not taking whole plants.

Second, there is no possibility that Christ sinned or He could not have been the perfect sinless sacrifice. The Bible is crystal clear that He was.

Third, if breaking the Sabbath is a sin toward God, and Jesus is God, apparently this event was yet another way of Jesus showing that He was God. If HE wasn't offended by His disciples feeding themselves from these plants because they were hungry, then there was no offense and thus, no sin.

Did He break the Sabbath? I haven't seen anybody make a conclusive case that He did, but if He did, He is God and thus, there was nothing broken. He makes the rules.

The verse in question appears TO ME to be stating that it was the opinion of the Jews that He broke the Sabbath while in actuality, He did not. Jesus is also called a wine bibber and a glutton which are also not true, but simply the accusations of those who hated Him. They also claimed that John the Baptist had a demon which we know is equally untrue.

 

[Lulav]

The Jews had added their own "rules" regarding the keeping of the 7th day Sabbath and Jesus took exception to that .... Jesus said one could do good on the Sabbath. He healed the man on the 7th day Sabbath and that is good.

They added 'fences' to keep the people from trespassing the commandments. While not a bad thing what Jesus was against was them upholding them more than the commandments of God themselves.

See here in Mark 7

1 Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.
2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault. 3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders. 4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables. 5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?

6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

 

[Lulav]

Hi, I have responded to this in post #29

Not really.

 

[Cornelius8L]

Well if we are to believe in God's Word, we should believe that God's saint keeps God's commandments, it is the fruit of a saved person so it should be something we all strive for because I do not think the saints means the lost.

Revelation14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

The Sabbath God deemed one of His Ten Commandments written by His own finger, so I am going to place my trust that it's something we are to keep since it is what He told us to right in the Sabbath commandment. Exodus 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Exodus 34:28 28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

There is no scripture in the entire bible that says we are free to break any of God's commandments which includes the weekly Sabbath commandment Exodus 20:8-11. Colossians 2:14-17 is referring to sacrificial ordinances, it does not say commandments. Just because sacrifices ended on the first day doesn't remove the first day or the second or the Sabbath day. Obviously, the Sabbath continues forever Isaiah 66:22-23 just as God promised.

Anyway, I don't think we are going to agree and that's okay. The scripture references are there if interested. I actually didn't mean to jump in this tread again, I am going to sign out and unfollow. I wish you well in seeking His Word.

I believe we did mention we keep the Sabbath, but just not the way the ordinances described (sacred assemblies, Leviticus 23:3) since this was made optional through the cross. Sin is preaching inaccurate laws and commandments (Matthew 5:19). The commandments in Revelation 14:12 also reflect 2 Corinthians 3:7-11 and Hebrews 8:13, obsoleting the past covenant and those engraved on the stone Moses carried since “For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment ἐντολῆς (entolēs) going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. (KJV Hebrews 7:18-19)” So I have just pointed out three verses that said the commandment ἐντολῆς (entolēs) changed. Anyway, take care.

 

[BobRyan]

Did He break the Sabbath? I haven't seen anybody make a conclusive case that He did, but if He did, He is God and thus, there was nothing broken. He makes the rules.

In the NT we are told "sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4

And in Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

And in John 8:46 "Which of you convinceth me of sin?"

Jesus claimed that even THEY could not find a place where He had broken God's Law.

But if He were using the argument "I am God so I can do whatever I wish" then anyone who did not consider that carpenter from Nazareth to be God - would have a long list of "sins" to respond with and Jesus would know it. As it is - every time they accused Him He shows the flaw in their accusations rather than "yes that is right I sin because I am God and it is ok for Me but not you"

 

[BobRyan]

They added 'fences' to keep the people from trespassing the commandments. While not a bad thing what Jesus was against was them upholding them more than the commandments of God themselves.

See here in Mark 7
....
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

IT looks like He is saying they are breaking the commandment of God.

8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Setting it aside, invalidating God's command, Not allowing the person to honor his parents in the example shown -- looks like it goes way beyond "too much emphasis" and goes to outright breaking the 5th commandment.

 

[Cornelius8L]

Not really.

Jesus did just that in one of His healing of the blind (John 9:11-12), letting a blind man wander in the road (Deuteronomy 27:18). The Father is Spirit (John 4:24), even if the law is spiritual (Romans 7:14), what Jesus said in (Matthew 15:14) is in disagreement with Him. That is why I suggested it is not that straightforward. In many other cases, Jesus did break the law on the physical level but not on the spiritual level. That is why He never sins.

Did Jesus let the blind man wander in the road in John 9:11-12?

 

[Lulav]

I believe we did mention we keep the Sabbath, but just not the way the ordinances described (sacred assemblies, Leviticus 23:3) since this was made optional through the cross. Sin is preaching inaccurate laws and commandments (Matthew 5:19). The commandments in Revelation 14:12 also reflect 2 Corinthians 3:7-11 and Hebrews 8:13, obsoleting the past covenant and those engraved on the stone Moses carried since “For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment ἐντολῆς (entolēs) going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. (KJV Hebrews 7:18-19)” So I have just pointed out three verses that said the commandment ἐντολῆς (entolēs) changed. Anyway, take care.

So you keep the commandment not made by GOD and carved into Stone, but one made by man, right?

So what do you make of Revelation 11:19

Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

This is the Judgement. The Covenant or the 'ten commandments' are in there.

The 24 elders proclaimed this:

And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,​

And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,​

And those who fear Your name, small and great,​

And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”​

​

Those Commandments have never changed. God does not Change.

There were no 'options at the cross'????

 

[Lulav]

Did Jesus let the blind man wander in the road in John 9:11-12?

If he healed him of blindness he was no longer blind and could walk about like any other seeing man.

 

[Lulav]

IT looks like He is saying they are breaking the commandment of God.

8 Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother, is certainly to be put to death’; 11 but you say, ‘If a person says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is, given to God),’ 12 you no longer allow him to do anything for his father or his mother; 13 thereby invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.”

Setting it aside, invalidating God's command, Not allowing the person to honor his parents in the example shown -- looks like it goes way beyond "too much emphasis" and goes to outright breaking the 5th commandment.

Yes, in some cases they were breaking them or tossing aside for their fences. I was thinking of this one

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

 

[Bob S]

Absolutely Jesus didn't sin. David was innocent as were the Levite priests who were doing their duties on the Sabbath. Verse 14 reveals who the real sinners were. It was the Pharisees who broke the Sabbath by not heeding Isaiah 58: 13
“If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath
and from doing as you please on my holy day,
if you call the Sabbath a delight
and the Lord’s holy day honorable,
and if you honor it by not going your own way
and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,

Matt12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”

3 He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? 6 I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. 7 If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice, you would not have condemned the innocent. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

9 Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue, 10 and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to bring charges against Jesus, they asked him, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”

11 He said to them, “If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? 12 How much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”

13 Then he said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” So he stretched it out and it was completely restored, just as sound as the other. 14 But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus.

 

[Bob S]

Someone wrote that the Sabbath was not a ritual law. I disagree. The Sabbath could be broken without penalty. We see that in several cases found in the Old Testament. Laws dealing with morality had no forgiveness. Those laws had severe penalties. Sabbath dealt with remembrance, laws dealing with morality deal with our fellow man.

1 Corinthians 13
If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast, but do not have love, I gain nothing. ...

 

[Cornelius8L]

If he healed him of blindness he was no longer blind and could walk about like any other seeing man.

This was what happened in John 9:1-11. Instead of immediate recovery like in the other records, Jesus told him to wash in the Pool of Siloam without guiding him there (v7). After the blind regained his sight, he found no Jesus until verse 35. Jesus could heal him on the spot, but He chose not to.

 

[Cornelius8L]

So you keep the commandment not made by GOD and carved into Stone, but one made by man, right?

So what do you make of Revelation 11:19

Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

This is the Judgement. The Covenant or the 'ten commandments' are in there.

The 24 elders proclaimed this:

And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,​

And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,​

And those who fear Your name, small and great,​

And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”​

​

Those Commandments have never changed. God does not Change.

There were no 'options at the cross'????

So are you saying Paul spoke his own idea, not from God in all 2 Corinthians 3:7-11, Hebrews 8:13, and Hebrews 7:18-19? If God revealed to Paul to instruct us to change, should we say it is man’s will and not God’s? If one is questioning the authority of the NT, then we are not worshipping the same Christ for Christ revealed to Paul (Galatians 1:12).

In the ark (Revelation 11:19), there is one thing called the manna, and how did Jesus comment on it? “Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. (John 6:49-51)” So, which manna do we eat? The one in the ark or Jesus? Also, do you think the beast in Revelation 11:7 is prefiguring something or an actual monster? If it is a prefiguration like the two olive trees and lampstands (v4), where comes the confidence that the temple of God in heaven is the literal temple and not Christ who rose to heaven(Matthew 12:6, John 2:21)? Then, manna in the ark is in Christ, so as the ten commandments (2 Corinthians 3:7-11) pointing to Him, and the rod of High priest pointing the mouth of Christ (Isaiah 11:4).

God never changes from what He intended to do. Otherwise, how do we explain God change His mind to extend the life of Hezekiah (Isaiah 38:1-5)? Or the case of Abraham offering Isaac?

 

[Lulav]

This was what happened in John 9:1-11. Instead of immediate recovery like in the other records, Jesus told him to wash in the Pool of Siloam without guiding him there (v7). After the blind regained his sight, he found no Jesus until verse 35. Jesus could heal him on the spot, but He chose not to.

He did 'heal him on the spot' , he just told him to go and wash in the pool of siloam.

 

[Lulav]

So are you saying Paul spoke his own idea, not from God in all 2 Corinthians 3:7-11, Hebrews 8:13, and Hebrews 7:18-19? If God revealed to Paul to instruct us to change, should we say it is man’s will and not God’s? If one is questioning the authority of the NT, then we are not worshipping the same Christ for Christ revealed to Paul (Galatians 1:12).

In the ark (Revelation 11:19), there is one thing called the manna, and how did Jesus comment on it? “Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. (John 6:49-51)” So, which manna do we eat? The one in the ark or Jesus? Also, do you think the beast in Revelation 11:7 is prefiguring something or an actual monster? If it is a prefiguration like the two olive trees and lampstands (v4), where comes the confidence that the temple of God in heaven is the literal temple and not Christ who rose to heaven(Matthew 12:6, John 2:21)? Then, manna in the ark is in Christ, so as the ten commandments (2 Corinthians 3:7-11) pointing to Him, and the rod of High priest pointing the mouth of Christ (Isaiah 11:4).

God never changes from what He intended to do. Otherwise, how do we explain God change His mind to extend the life of Hezekiah (Isaiah 38:1-5)? Or the case of Abraham offering Isaac?

Torah - A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.

The Living Word -
But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' ~ Matt

Even in your own Law it is written that the testimony of two men is valid. ~ John

Paul -
"Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses."
2 Cor

 

[Lulav]

In the ark (Revelation 11:19), there is one thing called the manna, and how did Jesus comment on it? “Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, yet they died. This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that anyone may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. (John 6:49-51)” So, which manna do we eat? The one in the ark or Jesus?

The only thing it says is in the ark in heaven is the testimony of the covenant, thus the ten words written by God Himself. , No Manna, no Aarons budded staff.

Also, do you think the beast in Revelation 11:7 is prefiguring something or an actual monster?

Coming out of the abyss you could certainly call it a beast.

If it is a prefiguration like the two olive trees and lampstands (v4), where comes the confidence that the temple of God in heaven is the literal temple and not Christ who rose to heaven(Matthew 12:6, John 2:21)? Then, manna in the ark is in Christ, so as the ten commandments (2 Corinthians 3:7-11) pointing to Him, and the rod of High priest pointing the mouth of Christ (Isaiah 11:4).

The two olive trees are the two witnesses, they are filled with the HOLY SPIRIT.

The Temple existed before God was made flesh in Yeshua. That is what the Tabernacle was patterned after in Moses time.


I have no idea what you mean after that, 'pointing the mouth of Christ? ??

 

[Lulav]

God never changes from what He intended to do. Otherwise, how do we explain God change His mind to extend the life of Hezekiah (Isaiah 38:1-5)? Or the case of Abraham offering Isaac?

Supplication does that.

As with Abraham it was stated it was a test. He didn't change his mind, but wanted to see how faithful and obedient he would be.