Is baptism a requirement for salvation?

[Neostarwcc]

How awesome that must of been!
The whole family being baptized the same day!
I've never heard of that before.
Definitely a day none of you will forget.
Amen.
⚘

That's what I was thinking. I haven't been baptized by immersion yet but hopefully by the end of the year I will be. I think my wife and I are going to get baptized at the same time.

 

[ItIsFinished!]

That's what I was thinking. I haven't been baptized by immersion yet but hopefully by the end of the year I will be. I think my wife and I are going to get baptized at the same time.

As your brother in Christ I definitely suggest getting baptized. You and your wife! How marvelous.
Many lost people who attend baptisms receive Jesus Christ as Saviour.
What a absolutely special day that will be.

All glory be to God now and forever!

 

[Tutorman]

Wrong.
Baptism comes after you receive salvation.
So it would seem to me that it is you who wants have salvation your way by adding to it.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

Baptism does not come after salvation but with salvation, your idea is pure fantasy

 

[ItIsFinished!]

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

Baptism does not come after salvation but with salvation, your idea is pure fantasy

Nope , not at all.
No where in that verse does it state you must be baptized to receive salvation.
And it isn't a matter of my "idea" , baptism in water by full immersion comes AFTER receiving salvation.
Self-righteousness doesn't jive with God friend.

 

[Neostarwcc]

As your brother in Christ I definitely suggest getting baptized. You and your wife! How marvelous.
Many lost people who attend baptisms receive Jesus Christ as Saviour.
What a absolutely special day that will be.

All glory be to God now and forever!

Indeed! Hopefully it'll happen by the end of the year. I really want to get baptized again (My wife and I were baptized as infants we were both raised Catholic). We have to find a church that will be willing to do it though. We're currently carless and churchless.

 

[Wordkeeper]

Regarding the topic here there is nothing I need to take up with God, however some of you "will have to take it up with God" as you say for adding works to His salvation.
Seriously? Jesus Christ alone cannot save you?
You have to add self-righteousness to His salvation?

Baptism is offered when the candidate confesses serving self interest/mammon/Egypt was for earthly treasure was futile and you now believe that serving God for heavenly treasure is better and possible by following Moses/Christ into Rest in God.


What baptism does is it closes the door to return to serving self just like the sea closed return to Egypt in the Exodus event. You'll never go back that way again. It's either enter Rest or wandering the rest of your life in the wilderness.

Also, baptism leads to drinking from the Rock, revelation about what it is like to be in Rest/Christ. It scared a few people, like the Israelites and Judas, and they tried to return to their old ways.

The point is that baptism enables the Holy Spirit to reveal what picking up the cross means, it's not fatal, there's a resurrection, but this drinking from the Rock is not going to benefit everybody. You have the option to believe or not. Those who did not believe did not enter Rest. God swore it was the result, no negotiations. Hear. Believe. Choose, when you hear the Voice, to live a life of laying it down for your brother, and get treasure that never perishes, or disbelieve, and spend the rest of your life in futility.

1 Corinthians 10:1For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea; 2and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3and all ate the same spiritual food; 4and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ. 5Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.

Hebrews 3:1Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the Apostle and High Priest of our confession; 2He was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was in all His house. 3For He has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by just so much as the builder of the house has more honor than the house. 4For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God. 5Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken later; 6but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house—whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.
7Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,

8DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME,
AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS,

9WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED Me BY TESTING Me,
AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS.

10“THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION,
AND SAID, ‘THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART,
AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS’;

11AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
‘THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.’”

Did you hear the Voice? I'm sure you didn't. It is heard only when you've drank from the Rock. Which happens when you claim you've left the works of the devil and are ready to follow Christ for heavenly treasure. Which is when He will show you the Way. Pick up a cross.

 

[Tutorman]

Nope , not at all.
No where in that verse does it state you must be baptized to receive salvation.
And it isn't a matter of my "idea" , baptism in water by full immersion comes AFTER receiving salvation.
Self-righteousness doesn't jive with God friend.

It sure does, but I understand I use to be stuck in the silly notions and ideas of Sola Scriptura at one time myself too but than I was able to overcome such things and realize that most evangelical ideas are very wrong but God can use even them.

 

[Not David]

Romans 6: 1-4
6:1 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | What shall we say (5692) then? Shall we continue (5692) in sin, that grace may abound (5661) ?

6:2 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | God forbid * (5636) . How shall we, that are dead (5627) to sin, live (5692) any longer therein *?
6:3 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | Know ye not (5719) , that so many of us as were baptized (5681) into Jesus Christwere baptized (5681) into his death?

6:4 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | Therefore we are buried with (5648) him by baptism into death: that like as Christwas raised up (5681) from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we alsoshould walk (5661) in newness of life.



Jesus died and rose again, we are baptized unto repentance. Note: I am not saying baptism saves us, I am saying that is an outward representation of dieing to the flesh and sin and the symbol of resurrection.

John baptized with the baptism of repentance.

As Jesus died we are baptized unto His death and rise with His resurrection.

John's baptism was about repentance but it wasn't the same as the Christian one. Christian baptism is about joining into the family of Christ and forgiveness of sins.

 

[Not David]

I provided bible verses to back it up that they are different.

I even provided the Greek for baptism in John 3:5

If the Bible says they are different, I don't care what another person believes. It is the Word that stands the Truth of time. He is never changing. The same yesterday, today and forever. He is the I Am.

Agree, that's why I believe in Paul saying "one Lord, one faith, one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5) and in the Early Christians who knew about the faith from the Church and not self-interpretations of the Bible.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

John's baptism was about repentance but it wasn't the same as the Christian one. Christian baptism is about joining into the family of Christ and forgiveness of sins.

Isnt repentance and forgiveness of sins two sides of the same coin?

 

[Not David]

Isnt repentance and forgiveness of sins two sides of the same coin?

No if you don't believe in the Messiah.

 

[aiki]

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

A chapter later Peter is preaching again:

Acts 3:19
19 Repent you therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

Notice anything missing in this call to salvation? (Hint: starts with a "b".)

How about this declaration from Peter?:

Acts 10:42-43
42 And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believes in him shall receive remission of sins.

No mention of baptism here, either. Interesting, no? Strange, if baptism is absolutely necessary to being saved.

Here's something else to consider:

Acts 10:44-47
44 While Peter yet spoke these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Uh, wait, the Holy Spirit indwelt these believers - in other words, spiritually regenerated them - without baptism being performed. They were even able to exercise the gift of tongues without being baptized. Seems pretty clear to me that baptism isn't crucial to being saved...

 

[Bible2+]

JoeP222w said in post #110:

If you say Abraham, David and the thief on the cross did not receive a command to be baptized for salvation, and yet we are required to be baptized for salvation, you are promoting 2 different ways that people are saved, and I don't think you can defend 2 different dispensations for salvation from the Bible. God does not change.

Hebrews 13:8 means only that Jesus Christ/God Himself is the same yesterday, today, and forever, not that the letter of His law by which He deals with people has to remain the same forever. For it has changed under His New Covenant (Jeremiah 31:31-32, Hebrews 7:12).

Also, compare what Genesis 22:2 and Genesis 22:12 say, to see how God's command can change. And obedience has always been, and still is, required for ultimate salvation (James 2:21-24).

Regarding obedient believers who died during Old Testament times, they are now part of the Church in heaven (Hebrews 11:13-16, Hebrews 12:22-24). For now there are no believers outside of the Church (Ephesians 4:4-6). And 1 Peter 4:6, 1 Peter 3:18c-19, and Ephesians 4:9 show that there was a post-resurrection descent of Jesus Christ into Hades to preach the fulfillment of the Gospel (of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) to the souls of the dead in Hades, after which preaching, Jesus ascended into heaven with all of the souls of those in Hades who had died in faith (Ephesians 4:8-9, Hebrews 11:13-16, Hebrews 12:22-24).

 

[Bible2+]

sdowney717 said in post #113:

We are justified by HIS GRACE.

And ultimately by our works (James 2:24), which must include getting water-immersion (burial) baptized (Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12, Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21, Galatians 3:27, Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16).

sdowney717 said in post #113:

[Titus 3]

5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us . . .

Initial salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ without any works at all on our part (Romans 4:1-5, Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). But other passages show that Christians must have both faith and continued works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law), if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Matthew 25:26,30, Philippians 2:12b, Philippians 3:11-14; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 6:10-12; 2 Peter 1:10-11, John 15:2a; 1 John 2:17b). For Christians must continue to do righteous deeds (baptism being just a one-time deed) if they are to continue to be righteous (1 John 3:7, James 2:24,26). And there is no assurance that Christians will choose to do continue to do righteous deeds, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

*******

sdowney717 said in post #121:

We who are born of God are saved.

Amen.

For initial salvation, being born again (John 3:3,7; 1 Peter 1:23-25; 1 Peter 2:2), is both present salvation and a contract for ultimate salvation, just as the birth of an infant is both present life and a contract for life as an adult. Just as children can know that they are actually alive, so initially saved people (that is, Christians) can know that they are actually saved (1 John 5:13; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). And just as an infant cannot "give back" his being born, or become unborn, so a born-again person cannot become un-born-again, or "give back" his being born again, his being initially saved. But just as there is no assurance that children will reach adulthood, so there is no assurance that initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation. For just as there are conditions placed on children, like not running into traffic, and not drinking the Drano under the sink, if they are to reach adulthood, so there are conditions placed on the born-again, the initially saved, if they are to obtain ultimate salvation (Mark 16:16, Romans 2:6-8, Hebrews 3:6,14; 1 Corinthians 9:27).

 

[Bible2+]

Wordkeeper said in post #117:

1 Corinthians 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel--not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

In 1 Corinthians 1:17 the apostle Paul was not (as is sometimes claimed) contradicting his own teaching of the necessity of baptism for ultimate salvation (Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12, Galatians 3:27). He simply meant that God did not want him to spend his apostolic time personally baptizing everyone who became a Christian through his preaching. For any other people in the Church could do that for him. For any Christian can baptize new Christians. Also, Paul did not want to personally baptize a lot of people, to avoid as much as possible any false charge that he baptized in his own name (1 Corinthians 1:14-15). The Bible does not say how many people Paul baptized, but it does show that he made sure that people got baptized, whether by himself or someone else, right away after their coming into faith in Jesus Christ through his preaching (Acts 16:14-15, Acts 16:33, Acts 18:8, Acts 19:5).

Wordkeeper said in post #117:

Acts 19:1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples
2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when a you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?” “John’s baptism,” they replied.
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”
5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues b and prophesied.
7 There were about twelve men in all.

Compare Acts 1:5, where Jesus Christ was simply bringing up the concept of "baptism" to apply it to Holy Spirit baptism. He was not (as is sometimes claimed) denying that Christians should both be water baptized in His name and be Holy Spirit baptized. For note what the apostle Paul did later in Acts 19:1-6. His question in Acts 19:2 relates to how Christians are to be water baptized (Matthew 28:19). That is, if the people whom the apostle Paul was speaking to in Acts 19:1-6 had been Christian water-baptized, they would have heard of the Holy Spirit. But they said that they had not heard of the Holy Spirit (Acts 19:2). Therefore, they needed to be Christian water-baptized, as in Acts 19:5.

Also, note two other things in Acts 19:1-6.

First, people do not automatically receive Holy Spirit baptism after they become Christians. That is why the apostle Paul asks his question in Acts 19:2.

Second, Christian water-baptism does not automatically impart Holy Spirit baptism. That is why the apostle Paul had to lay his hands on the people in Acts 19:6 for them to receive Holy Spirit baptism, even after they had been Christian water-baptized in Acts 19:5.

Note that this was also the case in Acts 8:15-17. That is, the Samaritan Christians got Christian water-baptized first. And then sometime later they got Holy Spirit baptized, through the laying on of hands.

 

[Bible2+]

JacksBratt said in post #135:

I am saved because of my faith in the work of Christ.

Note that ultimate salvation requires more than just faith (Matthew 7:21, Hebrews 5:9, James 2:24).

*******

JacksBratt said in post #142:

I don't believe we can "do" anything for our own salvation. So, therefore, we cannot fall short of being saved...

Note that Matthew 25:26,30 shows that even someone who was a servant of Jesus Christ can ultimately lose his salvation because of unrepentant laziness. One way that a Christian could desire to become lazy without repentance would be if he finds a particular sin to be very pleasurable, so pleasurable and so fulfilling (in the short term), that he continues in it over time until his love for God grows cold because of the abundance of iniquity (Matthew 24:12). Love for God means choosing to do what God says to do (1 John 5:3). So if one's love for God grows cold (Matthew 24:12), one will no longer choose to do what God says to do (John 14:24), meaning that one will become lazy in God's eyes (Matthew 25:26,30).

 

[Strong in Him]

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38

Baptism does not come after salvation but with salvation,

Not always.
I was saved when I was 16; I was baptised only in my early 20's - and some were against that because I'd been baptised as a baby. If I'd died before I could have been baptised, I'd still have been saved, been a Christian and belonged to God.

 

[JoeP222w]

i will reword it since your playing with words

An assertion without evidence is an argument from silence.

Words have meanings.

-is obedience a requirement for salvation

No. Obedience follows after salvation. Obedience does not save anyone. The dead have no ability to be obedient.

Ephesians 2:1-10 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins (2) in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— (3) among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. (4) But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, (5) even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— (6) and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, (7) so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. (8) For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, (9) not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

since the disobedient and the rebellious do not inherit eternal life we know it is.
is water baptism obedience?
is obedience a requirement of eternal life?

You seem to be unable or unwilling to understand my point, so I don't see any reason to continue this.

 

[AlexDTX]

That could be true if it were one or two isolated Early Fathers. However, the fact that so-called "believer's baptism" did not start until 16 centuries after the Apostles is one strike against your idea. The fact that the Bible teaches "baptism for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:38) is a second strike against you. And the fact that there has to be a covenant-cutting ceremony to replace circumcision is the third strike.

There are also several other "strikes" which are problematic for your view. There was no council ever called to discuss baptism, unlike the issue of circumcision which we see in Acts 15 and the Jerusalem Council. If there was a sect of Christian belief teaching that baptism is salvific, (the traditional understanding) and one teaching that baptism is merely a sign given by one who is already "saved" (the man-made and invented position) then there would have been a council to discuss this and get to the truth. There was never a council.

I find it interesting how we in the 20th century somehow think we are smarter than the men who died for the Gospel rather than renounce Jesus. I would much sooner believe the men who learned directly from the Apostles than someone who came along 16 centuries later.

Forgive me, I am not clear on your position. Are you saying water baptism is necessary for salvation or not needed for salvation?

 

[Alithis]

Romans 6: 1-4
6:1 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | What shall we say (5692) then? Shall we continue (5692) in sin, that grace may abound (5661) ?

6:2 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | God forbid * (5636) . How shall we, that are dead (5627) to sin, live (5692) any longer therein *?
6:3 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | Know ye not (5719) , that so many of us as were baptized (5681) into Jesus Christwere baptized (5681) into his death?

6:4 [ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | Therefore we are buried with (5648) him by baptism into death: that like as Christwas raised up (5681) from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we alsoshould walk (5661) in newness of life.



Jesus died and rose again, we are baptized unto repentance. Note: I am not saying baptism saves us, I am saying that is an outward representation of dieing to the flesh and sin and the symbol of resurrection.

John baptized with the baptism of repentance.

As Jesus died we are baptized unto His death and rise with His resurrection.

I agree
we are saved by believing in and thus obeying the lord Jesus he is the one that saves and the way he has told us to go through the process of salvation includes baptism in water .

( im fairly sure i cant get a clear indication -but i really do wonder how many involved in this thread are active in the doing of the great commission { go heal the sick preach the gospel drive out devils ,baptize them in Jesus name and make more disciples teaching them to do all i commanded etc } and actually baptize people vs how many are just full of traditional theories