Is baptism a requirement for salvation?

[Neostarwcc]

There's been much discussion about this issue in my saved by works thread and I figured I'd make a topic about it. It's my impression that no, we are not saved by baptism and the verses that seem to imply that Baptism is a requirement for salvation need to be looked at closer. Like for example in John 3:5. Jesus says:

“Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit."

So just what is "being born of water?" To answer that we have to look at what Nicodemus says in John 3:4 "How can someone be born when they are old? Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!". also look at Jesus's reply in John 3:6 " Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.". Jesus was talking about our physical and spiritual births. Nobody can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born into the world and then are born again spiritually. That's what Jesus was saying in John 3:5 not that we have to be baptized to enter the kingdom of God.

Second, we have to look at Mark 16:16 it says

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Notice it doesn't say those who believe but are not baptized are condemned. To say that this verse is proof that baptism is required for salvation is to add words that are not present in the holy text. If Baptism were a requirement for salvation Mark would have said "But those who do not believe or who believe but are not baptized will be condemned". All the first part of the verse is saying is that those who happen to be baptized will be saved. Also see: Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?. Got questions explains it a lot better than I ever could.


These are just two of the most popular verses in the Bible that people try to use to "prove" that baptism is a requirement for salvation. But, there isn't a single verse in the Bible that "proves" that baptism is a requirement for salvation because, it isn't.

There also are examples in the bible of people being saved without being baptized like the thief on the cross. If baptism were required for salvation why would Jesus say "today you will be with me in paradise!"

So, what's the point in getting baptized then if it doesn't save us? Because, Baptism is a part of faith. Simple as that.

 

[Dave-W]

No.

 

[Sabertooth]

Some people are unable to get baptized immediately (or at all, like the thief on the cross next to Jesus [Luke 23:39-43]). I think that it is very important for those who are able to do so.

 

[Neostarwcc]

Some people are unable to get baptized immediately (or at all, like the thief on the cross next to Jesus [Luke 23:39-43]). I think that it is very important for those who are able to do so.

That's a very important point that I forgot. I'll add it to my post. Thanks.

 

[Eloy Craft]

Baptism is a ritual that has form and matter. Both are instituted by Jesus and perfomed by the Apostles. The form Is in the Name of the Father snd the Son and the Holy Spirit. The matter is water. Jesus said to do this and taught it is for the remission of sins and to recieve the Holy Spirit. I believe it is a necessary act of faith on our part and does what Jesus said it does on His part.

 

[SkyWriting]

There's been much discussion about this issue in my saved by works thread and I figured I'd make a topic about it. It's my impression that no, we are not saved by baptism and the verses that seem to imply that Baptism is a requirement for salvation need to be looked at closer. Like for example in John 3:5. Jesus says:

“Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit."

So just what is "being born of water?" To answer that we have to look at what Nicodemus says in John 3:4 "How can someone be born when they are old? Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!". also look at Jesus's reply in John 3:6 " Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.". Jesus was talking about our physical and spiritual births. Nobody can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born into the world and then are born again spiritually. That's what Jesus was saying in John 3:5 not that we have to be baptized to enter the kingdom of God.

Second, we have to look at Mark 16:16 it says

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Notice it doesn't say those who believe but are not baptized are condemned. To say that this verse is proof that baptism is required for salvation is to add words that are not present in the holy text. If Baptism were a requirement for salvation Mark would have said "But those who do not believe or who believe but are not baptized will be condemned". All the first part of the verse is saying is that those who happen to be baptized will be saved. Also see: Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?. Got questions explains it a lot better than I ever could.


These are just two of the most popular verses in the Bible that people try to use to "prove" that baptism is a requirement for salvation. But, there isn't a single verse in the Bible that "proves" that baptism is a requirement for salvation because, it isn't.

There also are examples in the bible of people being saved without being baptized like the thief on the cross. If baptism were required for salvation why would Jesus say "today you will be with me in paradise!"

So, what's the point in getting baptized then if it doesn't save us? Because, Baptism is a part of faith. Simple as that.

If water is available, it's a nice symbolic sign of your change to the public.
If you happen to be in a desert, I'd wait.
In North Carolina, I'd wait for an all clear on the bacteria levels in the river.

 

[Matthew13:9]

There's been much discussion about this issue in my saved by works thread and I figured I'd make a topic about it. It's my impression that no, we are not saved by baptism and the verses that seem to imply that Baptism is a requirement for salvation need to be looked at closer. Like for example in John 3:5. Jesus says:

“Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit."

So just what is "being born of water?" To answer that we have to look at what Nicodemus says in John 3:4 "How can someone be born when they are old? Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!". also look at Jesus's reply in John 3:6 " Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.". Jesus was talking about our physical and spiritual births. Nobody can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born into the world and then are born again spiritually. That's what Jesus was saying in John 3:5 not that we have to be baptized to enter the kingdom of God.

Second, we have to look at Mark 16:16 it says

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Notice it doesn't say those who believe but are not baptized are condemned. To say that this verse is proof that baptism is required for salvation is to add words that are not present in the holy text. If Baptism were a requirement for salvation Mark would have said "But those who do not believe or who believe but are not baptized will be condemned". All the first part of the verse is saying is that those who happen to be baptized will be saved. Also see: Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?. Got questions explains it a lot better than I ever could.


These are just two of the most popular verses in the Bible that people try to use to "prove" that baptism is a requirement for salvation. But, there isn't a single verse in the Bible that "proves" that baptism is a requirement for salvation because, it isn't.

There also are examples in the bible of people being saved without being baptized like the thief on the cross. If baptism were required for salvation why would Jesus say "today you will be with me in paradise!"

So, what's the point in getting baptized then if it doesn't save us? Because, Baptism is a part of faith. Simple as that.

Here is the truth about water baptism. Except a man be born by water and by the Spirit of God, he can not enter into the spirit of God. The new birth happens at baptism, when one is raised with Christ through water baptism they are raised into the Resurrected body of Christ: born from the dead.


The water in baptism represents the word of God, the gospel: and the person baptizing must have the Spirit of God who is Christ, or else the baptism is void, because you were not born of God.

Putting off the body of sins, the old man, through water baptism is how you are forgiven of your sins: and putting on the new man who is Christ by being raised with him through water baptism, is life from the dead: being born again: in the image and person of God and not man.

 

[joshua 1 9]

"And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you — not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," 1Peter3:21

At the time of Noah the world was cleansed with water. Next the world will be cleansed with fire. As it was in the days of Lot.

 

[Matthew13:9]

"And this water symbolizes the baptism that now saves you — not the removal of dirt from the body, but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," 1Peter3:21

At the time of Noah the world was cleansed with water. Next the world will be cleansed with fire. As it was in the days of Lot.

You are not understanding what you are quoting:

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"

The answer of a good conscience toward God by the ressurection of Jesus: is knowing he is God in heaven and our sins are forgiven through him: through water baptism.

 

[TuxAme]

Baptism is an ordinary requirement for salvation- that doesn't mean that God is powerless to make extraordinary exceptions for those who were unable to be baptized in life.

 

[Matthew13:9]

Baptism is an ordinary requirement for salvation- that doesn't mean that God is powerless to make extraordinary exceptions for those who were unable to be baptized in life.

Well I can say that I have received the Holy Ghost without being baptized but I believe I will eventually be baptized by one with the Spirit of God, seeing I have found none so far.

 

[Hazelelponi]

There's been much discussion about this issue in my saved by works thread and I figured I'd make a topic about it. It's my impression that no, we are not saved by baptism and the verses that seem to imply that Baptism is a requirement for salvation need to be looked at closer. Like for example in John 3:5. Jesus says:

“Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit."

So just what is "being born of water?" To answer that we have to look at what Nicodemus says in John 3:4 "How can someone be born when they are old? Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!". also look at Jesus's reply in John 3:6 " Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.". Jesus was talking about our physical and spiritual births. Nobody can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born into the world and then are born again spiritually. That's what Jesus was saying in John 3:5 not that we have to be baptized to enter the kingdom of God.

Second, we have to look at Mark 16:16 it says

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Notice it doesn't say those who believe but are not baptized are condemned. To say that this verse is proof that baptism is required for salvation is to add words that are not present in the holy text. If Baptism were a requirement for salvation Mark would have said "But those who do not believe or who believe but are not baptized will be condemned". All the first part of the verse is saying is that those who happen to be baptized will be saved. Also see: Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?. Got questions explains it a lot better than I ever could.


These are just two of the most popular verses in the Bible that people try to use to "prove" that baptism is a requirement for salvation. But, there isn't a single verse in the Bible that "proves" that baptism is a requirement for salvation because, it isn't.

There also are examples in the bible of people being saved without being baptized like the thief on the cross. If baptism were required for salvation why would Jesus say "today you will be with me in paradise!"

So, what's the point in getting baptized then if it doesn't save us? Because, Baptism is a part of faith. Simple as that.

There is a difference between water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism which seals us as God's children.

Water baptism is a part of faith, the answer of a clear conscious to God.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is automatic upon our initial justification (when we are saved, initially), at that time we are sealed with the Holy Spirit as a guarantor of our ultimate salvation upon our death, our glorification - it is nothing we do to ourselves, however, as God sets His seal upon us.

 

[Matthew13:9]

There us a difference between water baptism and holy Spirit baptism which seals us as God's children.

Water baptism is a part of faith, an answer of a clear conscious to God.

Baptism of the Holy Spirit is automatic upon our initial justification (when we are saved, initially), at that time we are sealed with the Holy Spirit as a guarantor - it is nothing we do to ourselves, however, as God sets His seal upon us.

To receive the Spirit of Christ is to know you are in his body: and eternal life, being the Spirit of Jesus who is God is in the Son of God.

 

[Foxfyre]

There's been much discussion about this issue in my saved by works thread and I figured I'd make a topic about it. It's my impression that no, we are not saved by baptism and the verses that seem to imply that Baptism is a requirement for salvation need to be looked at closer. Like for example in John 3:5. Jesus says:

“Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit."

So just what is "being born of water?" To answer that we have to look at what Nicodemus says in John 3:4 "How can someone be born when they are old? Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!". also look at Jesus's reply in John 3:6 " Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.". Jesus was talking about our physical and spiritual births. Nobody can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born into the world and then are born again spiritually. That's what Jesus was saying in John 3:5 not that we have to be baptized to enter the kingdom of God.

Second, we have to look at Mark 16:16 it says

"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Notice it doesn't say those who believe but are not baptized are condemned. To say that this verse is proof that baptism is required for salvation is to add words that are not present in the holy text. If Baptism were a requirement for salvation Mark would have said "But those who do not believe or who believe but are not baptized will be condemned". All the first part of the verse is saying is that those who happen to be baptized will be saved. Also see: Does Mark 16:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?. Got questions explains it a lot better than I ever could.


These are just two of the most popular verses in the Bible that people try to use to "prove" that baptism is a requirement for salvation. But, there isn't a single verse in the Bible that "proves" that baptism is a requirement for salvation because, it isn't.

There also are examples in the bible of people being saved without being baptized like the thief on the cross. If baptism were required for salvation why would Jesus say "today you will be with me in paradise!"

So, what's the point in getting baptized then if it doesn't save us? Because, Baptism is a part of faith. Simple as that.

We probably have as many opinions about what baptism does as we do about the proper way to conduct and our beliefs about the Mass/the Eucharist/Holy Communion. And there are quite a lot of different ways of how to do both. Some go with water baptism being replaced with a baptism of the Holy Spirit, some sprinkle, some pour, some immerse, some have the priest rubbing water and oil all over the body, some consider it a spiritual experience and use no water at all, etc. etc. etc.

And yet you have devout Christians emerging from all these traditions. Most of us are baptized as an outward expression and obedience to our Lord Jesus Christ's example. But for most of us, it is not a meaningless exercise either.

Personally I don't think God is all that interested in the form of how we practice Christianity or do Church. I think what is in out heart as demonstrated by our own repentence, how we choose to live, how we treat others, even the most obvious of sinners, all of which honors our relationship with and demonstrates our love for Him, is all that is really important for Christians.

 

[Matthew13:9]

We probably have as many opinions about what baptism does as we do about the proper way to conduct and our beliefs about the Mass/the Eucharist/Holy Communion. And there are quite a lot of different ways of how to do both. Some go with water baptism being replaced with a baptism of the Holy Spirit, some sprinkle, some pour, some immerse, some have the priest rubbing water and oil all over the body, some consider it a spiritual experience and use no water at all, etc. etc. etc.

And yet you have devout Christians emerging from all these traditions. Most of us are baptized as an outward expression and obedience to our Lord Jesus Christ's example. But for most of us, it is not a meaningless exercise either.

Personally I don't think God is all that interested in the form of how we practice Christianity or do Church. I think what is in out heart as demonstrated by our own repentence, how we choose to live, how we treat others, even the most obvious of sinners, all of which honors our relationship with and demonstrates our love for Him, is all that is really important for Christians.

You think, I know.

 

[thecolorsblend]

There also are examples in the bible of people being saved without being baptized like the thief on the cross

Why didn't the thief on the cross come down and get baptized?

 

[Matthew13:9]

Why didn't the thief on the cross come down and get baptized?

Because God was not going to use him in the body of his Son.

Romans 1:1 King James Version (KJV)
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,


Acts 13:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

 

[Matthew13:9]

Why didn't the thief on the cross come down and get baptized?

Although God was not going to use him in the body of his Son, He will still be raised up by the Spirit of his son on the last day.

2 Peter 3:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 

[Albion]

Here is the truth about water baptism. Except a man be born by water and by the Spirit of God, he can not enter into the spirit of God. The new birth happens at baptism, when one is raised with Christ through water baptism they are raised into the Resurrected body of Christ: born from the dead.


The water in baptism represents the word of God, the gospel: and the person baptizing must have the Spirit of God who is Christ, or else the baptism is void, because you were not born of God.

Putting off the body of sins, the old man, through water baptism is how you are forgiven of your sins: and putting on the new man who is Christ by being raised with him through water baptism, is life from the dead: being born again: in the image and person of God and not man.

Is there some denomination whose beliefs are reflected in this ^ explanation?

 

[Matthew13:9]

Is there some denomination whose beliefs are reflected in this ^ explanation?

The truth that I have learned Jesus himself taught me through the scriptures in the King James Bible: starting on the day I received his Spirit on January 9th 2011.

As it is written, his Spirit will lead into all truth.

The Spirit of God searches all things, even the hidden things of God.