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Is abortion ever acceptable?

Is abortion ever acceptable?

  • Yes, always

  • Yes, in some cases

  • No


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AnnaDeborah

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Might be worth adding here that pro life needs to be more than pro-baby to be worthy of the term. I've heard a lot of 'pro life' people who are very eloquent about pro life when it comes to protecting the unborn, but once the baby is born, they don't want to know and they show zero concern for the mother too. If you are pro life, you need to be pro every stage of life - the pro lifers I have huge respect for are the ones who offer ongoing support to parents who choose to keep the baby.
 
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redleghunter

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Might be worth adding here that pro life needs to be more than pro-baby to be worthy of the term. I've heard a lot of 'pro life' people who are very eloquent about pro life when it comes to protecting the unborn, but once the baby is born, they don't want to know and they show zero concern for the mother too. If you are pro life, you need to be pro every stage of life - the pro lifers I have huge respect for are the ones who offer ongoing support to parents who choose to keep the baby.
I’ve seen this claim before. My first question is what is your own church doing? If your impressions are based on your own experience, then this small sample should show how active Christians are in not only pregnancy care but after care as well:

Christian Pregnancy Services and After Care:

Just a few examples here:

https://cmda.org/resources/publication/crisis-pregnancy-centers
Pregnancy Centers in PA
Listing Of Crisis Pregnancy Centers In Illinois
Christian Life Resources
Special Delivery | Overlake Christian Church
Top 10 Non Profit Organizations that help Mothers
Creating a Cradle Care Ministry for Expectant & New Parents

These are a few examples of Christian ministries which span all 50 states.

Sanctuary of Hope:

https://www.jhm.org/SOHCares
The above is a grand scale example of after and future care. Others include Catholic charities and Samaritans Purse.

Becoming Adoptive Parents - FAQs
Counseling
Help Protect Vulnerable Women

And Christians are adopting at greater rates than non Christians in the US:

From a Barna study:

A recent Barna Group survey found that 5 percent of practicing U.S. Christians – compared to 2 percent of all U.S. adults – have adopted children.

When asked if they had seriously considered adopting, 38 percent of practicing Christians and 26 percent of all adults responded affirmatively.

Barna also found that 3 percent of practicing U.S. Christians are foster parents and 31 percent have seriously considered fostering a child.

By comparison, 2 percent of all U.S. adults are foster parents while 11 percent seriously considered fostering a child.

Regarding family dynamics, Barna reported that "the majority of adoptive parents are non-Hispanic white adults (73 percent), yet non-Hispanic white adopted children are actually the minority (37 percent)."

While Christians have built a reputation for many of the things they are against, adoption and foster care are emerging as a cause they are for. While only 2% of all Americans have adopted, this rises to 5% among practicing Christians. Practicing Christians are much more likely than others to have seriously considered adoption—38% of practicing Christians say they have, compared to 26% of all adults.
[...]
The majority of adoptive parents are non–Hispanic white adults (73%), yet non–Hispanic white adopted children are actually the minority (37%). This results in not only a multi–ethnic family portrait, but increasingly multi–ethnic churches as well. This trend may pave the way for renewed cross–ethnic hospitality and reconciliation within today’s Christian community, which remains one of the most ethnically divided parts of U.S. society.

Source: https://www.barna.com/research/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-adoption/
A ministry webpage for reference here: Thriving as a Multicultural Adoptive Family - Bethany Christian Services

Also, Christians of all stripes are adopting and fostering children with disabilities.

Faith compels Christian family to keep on adopting, many with special needs

God Called Them to Adopt. And Adopt. And Adopt.

Adoption From Foster Care

http://www.chask.org/

Special Needs Consulting - Christian Adoption Consultants

Special Needs Adoption Archives - Nightlight Christian Adoptions

Bethany in China - Bethany Christian Services

And of course not long ago we had on national news the story of a Christian police officer and his wife adopt an opioid addicted child from off the streets.

It was in that life-changing moment that Holets decided to intervene.

"I just felt God telling me, 'Tell her that you will do it because you can,’” Holets said to CNN.

That “it” was the father of four telling Champ he would like to adopt her baby.

Champ, who lives in a tent among the brush beside a highway in New Mexico, has battled addition to heroin and crystal meth for most of her life.

“I know how bad my situation is,” she told CNN. “I know what a horrible person I am.”

Champ had also “desperately wanted someone to adopt her baby,” Holets said and he wanted to be the one.
'Guardian Angel' police officer adopts opioid-addicted newborn from homeless woman

This link below will take you to a post I responded to where a poster asserted Christians were not involved enough in adoption and foster care. And that the children they did adopt were mostly white.

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...eek-abortion-ban.8053661/page-7#post-72431440
 
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AnnaDeborah

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I’ve seen this claim before. My first question is what is your own church doing? If your impressions are based on your own experience, then this small sample should show how active Christians are in not only pregnancy care but after care as well

No, it's not based on my own church. And I'm aware that there are many churches, organisations and individuals who do offer long-term support to parents. But I have also encountered those whose only interest is in preventing abortions and who, for example, will criticise and judge an unmarried teenage mother - yet if the same teenager had aborted her baby, they would very likely never have known she was pregnant! (The most outspoken 'pro lifer' in my previous area was notorious for this!) So I think it is important to bring into any discussion on this topic that pro life MUST include ongoing support for both parents and baby - otherwise it cannot claim to be 'pro life' but is just 'anti abortion'.
 
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devin553344

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Based on that logic only murder victims should decide the fate of murderers!

That would be perfect law and just, but I think the family of murder victims should also weigh in, but have less weight on the judgment of the murderers. If you could communicate with the dead :(
 
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devin553344

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During slavery they had the same argument .Can another person be considered property to do what with you want.Just like a unborn baby is considered today.A lot of slave women were raped by their masters and even their children were considered property to with what they wanted.

People are sick aren't they? But you're leaving out the concept of sex slaves, which still is prevalent in some countries.
 
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eleos1954

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Some pro-lifers say that abortion is okay in the case of rape or incest. But this logic doesn’t make sense because they believe life begins at conception. To kill an unborn baby who is the product of rape or incest is like killing a 2-year-old because his father was a rapist or pervert.

From a christian (biblical) perspective it is never acceptable.

You are correct ... it does not "make sense" ..... therefore it is "non-sense".

It's difficult for people to "sort it out" when it comes to rape and incest ... so they try to "rationalize" it. But they can't really ... because it (the baby to be) came from an un-rational and dispicable act from another person.
 
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Rev. Thomas

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Some pro-lifers say that abortion is okay in the case of rape or incest. But this logic doesn’t make sense because they believe life begins at conception. To kill an unborn baby who is the product of rape or incest is like killing a 2-year-old because his father was a rapist or pervert.

Life does not begin at conception, we know that for a fact. Even before conception, an egg is human life, so is sperm. What if life begins when God provides a human spirit? When does that happen? Many believe that the Bible indicates that happens when we draw our first breath, I'm not sure I'm totally comfortable with that interpretation either.
 
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SPF

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Life does not begin at conception, we know that for a fact. Even before conception, an egg is human life, so is sperm. What if life begins when God provides a human spirit? When does that happen? Many believe that the Bible indicates that happens when we draw our first breath, I'm not sure I'm totally comfortable with that interpretation either.
Actually, thanks to advancements in science we DO know that a new human being is formed and created and begins its life at conception.

“The life cycle of mammals begins when a sperm enters an egg.” Okada et al., A role for the elongator complex in zygotic paternal genome demethylation, NATURE 463:554 (Jan. 28, 2010)

“Fertilization is the process by which male and female haploid gametes (sperm and egg) unite to produce a genetically distinct individual.”Signorelli et al., Kinases, phosphatases and proteases during sperm capacitation, CELL TISSUE RES. 349(3):765 (Mar. 20, 2012)

“Fertilization – the fusion of gametes to produce a new organism – is the culmination of a multitude of intricately regulated cellular processes.” Marcello et al., Fertilization, ADV. EXP. BIOL. 757:321 (2013)

“Human life begins at fertilization, the process during which a male gamete or sperm (spermatozoo developmentn) unites with a female gamete or oocyte (ovum) to form a single cell called a zygote. This highly specialized, totipotent cell marked the beginning of each of us as a unique individual.” “A zygote is the beginning of a new human being (i.e., an embryo).” Keith L. Moore, The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology, 7th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2003. pp. 16, 2.

“In that fraction of a second when the chromosomes form pairs, the sex of the new child will be determined, hereditary characteristics received from each parent will be set, and a new life will have begun.” Kaluger, G., and Kaluger, M., Human Development: The Span of Life, page 28-29, The C.V. Mosby Co., St. Louis, 1974

An embryology textbook describes how birth is just an event in the development of a baby, not the beginning of his/her life:

“It should always be remembered that many organs are still not completely developed by full-term and birth should be regarded only as an incident in the whole developmental process.” F Beck Human Embryology, Blackwell Scientific Publications, 1985 page vi

“It is the penetration of the ovum by a sperm and the resulting mingling of nuclear material each brings to the union that constitutes the initiation of the life of a new individual.” Clark Edward and Corliss Patten’s Human Embryology, McGraw – Hill Inc., 30

“Although it is customary to divide human development into prenatal and postnatal periods, it is important to realize that birth is merely a dramatic event during development resulting in a change in environment.” The Developing Human: Clinically Oriented Embryology fifth edition, Moore and Persaud, 1993, Saunders Company, page 1

“The zygote and early embryo are living human organisms.” Keith L. Moore & T.V.N. Persaud Before We Are Born – Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects (W.B. Saunders Company, 1998. Fifth edition.) Page 500

“Thus a new cell is formed from the union of a male and a female gamete. [sperm and egg cells] The cell, referred to as the zygote, contains a new combination of genetic material, resulting in an individual different from either parent and from anyone else in the world.” Sally B Olds, et al., Obstetric Nursing (Menlo Park, California: Addison – Wesley publishing, 1980) P 136


“The term conception refers to the union of the male and female pronuclear elements of procreation from which a new living being develops. It is synonymous with the terms fecundation, impregnation, and fertilization … The zygote thus formed represents the beginning of a new life.” J.P. Greenhill and E.A. Freidman. Biological Principles and Modern Practice of Obstetrics. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Publishers. 1974 Pages 17 and 23.

“[All] organisms, however large and complex they might be as full grown, begin life as a single cell. This is true for the human being, for instance, who begins life as a fertilized ovum.”Dr. Morris Krieger “The Human Reproductive System” p 88 (1969) Sterling Pub. Co
 
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JacksBratt

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We live in an age of advanced medical technology. When would the mother’s life be at risk with all our modern tools?
So, then, abortion would NEVER be an option...Simple.

Why is it even an option and why, on a Christian site, do we not have 100% NO votes...

Can you not tell that the end time is near?
 
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aiki

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Scripture is really clear that God "opens and shuts" the womb. He is the One who ordains that a human life should exist. And Scripture also says that children are intended as a blessing from God. It seems to me, then, that a child conceived by rape is not an evil but a good - the only good, perhaps, to come out of a really awful circumstance. If, then, society in general took a biblical view of children, conception by rape wouldn't be seen as a vestige of evil to be destroyed but as a precious gift from God. How terrible it is that some want to compound the horror and evil of rape with murder.
 
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redleghunter

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No, it's not based on my own church. And I'm aware that there are many churches, organisations and individuals who do offer long-term support to parents. But I have also encountered those whose only interest is in preventing abortions and who, for example, will criticise and judge an unmarried teenage mother - yet if the same teenager had aborted her baby, they would very likely never have known she was pregnant! (The most outspoken 'pro lifer' in my previous area was notorious for this!) So I think it is important to bring into any discussion on this topic that pro life MUST include ongoing support for both parents and baby - otherwise it cannot claim to be 'pro life' but is just 'anti abortion'.
You based your assertion on hearsay and your individual subjective opinion. That is why I provided the sources showing that such a view as your own is rhetoric without any substantial evidence.
 
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redleghunter

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That would be perfect law and just, but I think the family of murder victims should also weigh in, but have less weight on the judgment of the murderers. If you could communicate with the dead :(
However dashes any concept of what we call justice. An aborted human being who was developing in the womb is terminated (killed) without legal representation, judge and jury. Even in the Law one could not be executed for murder without 2 or 3 witnesses.
 
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AnnaDeborah

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You based your assertion on hearsay and your individual subjective opinion. That is why I provided the sources showing that such a view as your own is rhetoric without any substantial evidence.

There seems to be some misunderstanding over what I have written. To clarify: I believe it is important to provide care for parents and babies long term, not just when they are considering whether or not to abort. Many pro life groups and individuals do this, but some do not (this is a fact, not based on hearsay or opinion but on the words of the individuals and organisations concerned). I have said that it is important for everyone who opposes abortion to show concern for the parents and babies long term.

I don't see anything in these statements that would warrant such a confrontational response. I assume you have maybe misunderstood my comments (in which case I apologise for lack of clarity and am sorry for any distress caused).
 
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redleghunter

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There seems to be some misunderstanding over what I have written. To clarify: I believe it is important to provide care for parents and babies long term, not just when they are considering whether or not to abort. Many pro life groups and individuals do this, but some do not (this is a fact, not based on hearsay or opinion but on the words of the individuals and organisations concerned). I have said that it is important for everyone who opposes abortion to show concern for the parents and babies long term.

I don't see anything in these statements that would warrant such a confrontational response. I assume you have maybe misunderstood my comments (in which case I apologise for lack of clarity and am sorry for any distress caused).
First I apologize if I seemed gruff or confrontational. Was not my intent. I was debating your claim. I see it quite often from abortion rights advocates as they call us pro fetal life. There is even a thread on this in the abortion forum.

My point is the evidence does not support your claim. That’s all. Nothing personal. Can I search the internet and knock on doors and find someone or some people who fit your description like a glove. I’m sure I can. Yet the actions of Christians and pro life groups show statements like your own are generalizations the facts don’t support.

The social justice warriors (SJWs) and liberal left in general operate from influence operations much like Military psychological operations (PsyOp). They come up with a narrative defining their opponent and repeat it enough to where it is accepted generally by the public as fact. Then when asked for evidence to support their claim, they use their own created narrative as “fact” and people generally agree it is fact because they heard it promoted enough.

This is the height of Psychological Operations and how disingenuous political groups and lobbies (yes governments too!) condition and influence the views and opinions of the populace. The first step is always to “inform” the populace with their narrative. The second is “influence” that opinion once “informed.”

For example, abortion on demand lobby floats “they are not pro life but pro fetal life. They don’t care what happens to mother and child after the birth of the child.” Then they will show maybe some stats on how many teen pregnancy centers pro life groups run and say “see what we mean?!” Is their data wrong on teen pregnancy centers all over the place? No it’s probably accurate. What the narrative omits is the full story. They went with one element of data without considering the foster care and adoptive centers the job placement services and the ministries which work with social services to help the family get back on their feet. It’s not necessarily what they present but what they leave out. And we all know who is a master at leaving out the full truth. We see it in Genesis 3.

I saw psychological operations in full use in Iraq. Now I’m seeing Americans use it on each other.
 
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redleghunter

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More or less, I believe it's a woman's choice she decides with the help of her doctor and her religious beliefs.
In all cases? Even when the health of the mother and developing child are not a concern?
 
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PaulCyp1

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You are absolutely correct. Killing an innocent child because he/she was conceived as a result of rape is still murder. Incidentally, it is not a "believe" that life begins at conception. It is a biological FACT that "the life of an individual organism of any sexually reproducing species begins at the moment of fertilization".
 
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AnnaDeborah

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First I apologize if I seemed gruff or confrontational. Was not my intent. I was debating your claim. I see it quite often from abortion rights advocates as they call us pro fetal life. There is even a thread on this in the abortion forum.
leaving out the full truth. We see it in Genesis 3.
I'm so sorry you had that experience on the abortion forum - that must have been horrible. I certainly wasn't aiming any criticism at you, or at any pro life group who provides ongoing support. I believe pro life groups do a hugely important work which should be supported and prayed for by the church as a whole even if we can't all get involved on a practical level. I just said that some (emphasis on 'some') groups and individuals do not care for the families as they should. Sadly, they do exist (here in the UK at least) and make the task of genuine pro-lifers so much harder by providing ammunition for those who would attack pro-life. (And I have heard pro-life campaigners expressing frustration over the harm that these people do.)
 
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Tutorman

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Did not know there was a church which was more conservative than the Roman Catholic Church on this issue.

I am Charismatic Episcopal, which is a three streams church. :)

What would be the pastoral advice from your church for a woman who was pregnant and had stage 4 colon cancer with weeks to months to live?

We would pray for both but no abortion, the Priest would direct them to resources. Though this "boogeyman" of the women's life in danger seldom happens.
 
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