Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

[jonojim1337]

Are you going to claim Jesus was Egyptian now?

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

View attachment 371810
View attachment 371811

Another one of those college brainwashing episodes. Got it

 

[Hentenza]

Some scriptures say words about eternal fire and torment, other scriptures say the Wicked will simply vanish, you will look for them and they will be nowhere to be found.

The fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes, is no longer burning, so that means the words "Everlasting Fire" is not to be taken literally, so why are we taking the words "eternal torment" literally? Especially when the other scriptures clearly say: "they will vanish"
"be cut off" "be burned up" "will not receive their inheritance" "will not get life" "will be destroyed"

By your logic then why should we take salvation as eternal life?

 

[walter45]

By your logic then why should we take salvation as eternal life?

1. Because my logic includes every scripture on a Bible topic, not just a few scriptures that obviously do not agree with the other scriptures throughout the Bible.

2. Everlasting life is a consistent teaching in the Bible, and there are no scriptures that explain it is only figurative or symbolic.

When some scriptures disagree with other scriptures, would that be the correct understanding? Especially when we discover the Eternal fire is not eternal.

 

[Hentenza]

1. Because my logic includes every scripture on a Bible topic, not just a few scriptures that obviously do not agree with the other scriptures throughout the Bible.

2. Everlasting life is a consistent teaching in the Bible, and there are no scriptures that explain it is only figurative or symbolic.

When some scriptures disagree with other scriptures, would that be the correct understanding? Especially when we discover the Eternal fire is not eternal.

Or maybe is just your interpretation that puts the scriptures in tension. You can’t just choose the ones you like and ignore the others.

 

[Jipsah]

Let’s just make it perfectly clear here: THERE IS SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS THAT PEOPLE LIVE FOREVER WITHOUT RECEIVING ETERNAL LIFE.

Then be good enough to quote it.

 

[Jipsah]

Or maybe is just your interpretation that puts the scriptures in tension. You can’t just choose the ones you like and ignore the others.

Or maybe Scripture SAYS that the wages of sin is DEATH, but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE. That's DEATH directly contracted to LIFE. NO "everybody lives forever no matter what" there.

 

[Jipsah]

Or maybe is just your interpretation that puts the scriptures in tension. You can’t just choose the ones you like and ignore the others.

Really? How about the ones that directly contradict your belief that everybody lives forever, regardless. Death v LIfe, pretty plain, innit?

 

[Jipsah]

By your logic then why should we take salvation as eternal life?

Because Scripture directly contrasts the two. Death versus Life. Not Good Life Versus Bad Life. Exists versus Doesn't Exist.

 

[Hentenza]

Then be good enough to quote it.

Already did. You missed it.

 

[Hentenza]

Really? How about the ones that directly contradict your belief that everybody lives forever, regardless. Death v LIfe, pretty plain, innit?

There is none that contradict the orthodox interpretation.

 

[Hentenza]

Because Scripture directly contrasts the two. Death versus Life. Not Good Life Versus Bad Life. Exists versus Doesn't Exist.

Nah. It contrasts eternal life vs eternal damnation.

 

[walter45]

You can’t just choose the ones you like and ignore the others

Please cite the scriptures I'm ignoring. Just because I find everlasting fire and everlasting torment not to be taken literally, does that mean I am ignoring them? I have re-examining their meaning within biblical and historical contexts.

 

[Hentenza]

Please cite the scriptures I'm ignoring. Just because I find everlasting fire and everlasting torment not to be taken literally, does that mean I am ignoring them? I have re-examining their meaning within biblical and historical contexts.

First I need to know what verses you are quoting. Your first post did not include any only commentary. The main verse that I would quote would be Matt. 25:46 which contrasts eternal punishment with eternal life so this is not a verse that you can ignore.

 

[JulieB67]

“But for the cowardly, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and sexually immoral persons, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.””

Yes, their part will be in the lake of fire but it doesn't state they live there forever. It's always been life or death. You can't redefine what "death" means. Christ calls it the "second death" for a reason. He taught it very simply in Matthew 28:10. Destroy in the Greek is destroy" fully"

God is so long suffering because he doesn't want anyone to "perish". It's that simple.

The second death occurs at Judgement Day. After that the former things are passed away and all things become new. That statement would be impossible if the Lake of Fire were to still be in play. It won't be.

I hated that I was indoctrinated with this belief but when we take the bible as a whole we see the very nature of God all throughout- his mercy, his love, his wish that all would come to repentance so they won't perish. But if he takes no pleasure in that, why would we believe he would take pleasure in torturing someone for an eternity? It has to make sense with how we've come to know God through the scriptures and that make no sense.

You quoted John 3:16 and it states shall not "perish" but have everlasting life. You have inserted everlasting life but in another place, thus you are adding something that's not there.

 

[Hentenza]

Yes, their part will be in the lake of fire but it doesn't state they live there forever. It's always been life or death. You can't redefine what "death" means. Christ calls it the "second death" for a reason. He taught it very simply in Matthew 28:10 destroy in the Greek is destroy fully.

God is so long suffering because he doesn't want anyone to "perish". It's always been life or death. Nothing in between.

The second death occurs at Judgement Day. After that the former things are passed away and all things become new. That statement would be impossible if the Lake of Fire were to still be in play. It won't be.

I hated that I was indoctrinated with this belief but when we take the bible as a whole we see the very nature of God all throughout, his mercy, his love his wish that all would come to repentance so they won't perish. But if he takes no pleasure in that, why would we believe he would take pleasure in torturing someone for an eternity. It has to make sense with how we come to know God through the scriptures and that make no sense.

You quoted John 3:16 and it states shall not "perish" but have everlasting life. You have inserted everlasting life but in another place, thus you are adding something that's not there.

How do you factor in the following verse?

“Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for Me, either.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25‬:‭45‬-‭46‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 25:45-46 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for Me, either.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but th | New American Standard Bible -

Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for Me, either.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but th

bible.com

How about this one?

“Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and about the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Hebrews 6:1-2 Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washi | New American Standard Bible - NAS

Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washi

bible.com

 

[walter45]

First I need to know what verses you are quoting. Your first post did not include any only commentary. The main verse that I would quote would be Matt. 25:46 which contrasts eternal punishment with eternal life so this is not a verse that you can ignore.

I will get those scriptures together soon, thank you for your kind words.

 

[JulieB67]

hen He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it for one of the least of these, you did not do it for Me, either.’ These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.””

Only one has eternal life, that's the point. The righteous into eternal "life" The first in that equation do not get life. Eternal destruction is eternal punishment. There's no coming back from that. They will perish. And Malachi 4 describes exactly what will happen to them.

Hebrews 6:1 and 2 is just stating that we don't have to lay the foundations again. Once we know those we can move on past the milk. If you are talking eternal judgement. The second death is eternal and that is judgement.

So you don't believe in death at all? Is that what you're stating? Even though Christ states fear the one that can destroy both body and soul in hell. And when we see it called the second death then we know it coincides with Christ's earlier teaching.

It's easier when we take the bible as a whole on this subject.

 

[Hentenza]

Only one has eternal life, that's the point. The righteous into eternal "life" The first in that equation do not get life. Eternal destruction is eternal punishment. There's no coming back from that. They will perish. And Malachi 4 describes exactly what will happen to them.

Both eternal punishment and eternal life are fully constrasted in this verse. Either both are eternal or none are. The Greek proves that both are. The first in the equation get eternal punishment. One can’t get eternal punishment if one is dead.

Malachi 4 speaks nothing about death although the mention of chaff and ashes might seem to.

Hebrews 6:1 and 2 is just stating that we don't have to lay the foundations again. Once we know those we can move on past the milk. If you are talking eternal judgement. The second death is eternal.

I mentioned Heb. 6 because it teaches that the judgement is eternal. The second death is indeed eternal.

So you don't believe in death at all? Is that what you're stating? Even though Christ states fear the one that can destroy both body and soul in hell. And when we see it called the second death then we know it coincides with Christ's earlier teaching.

Look, those in the lake of fire remain in the lake of fire. They will never enter the gates of the New Jerusalem or be given access to the tree of life. Only those that washed their robes are invited.

“Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they will have the right to the tree of life, and may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral persons, the murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22‬:‭14‬-‭15‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Revelation 22:14-15 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they will have the right to the tree of life, and may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral persons, th | New American Standard Bible

Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they will have the right to the tree of life, and may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral persons, th

bible.com

It's easier when we take the bible as a whole on this subject.

Exactly.

 

[JulieB67]

Either both are eternal or none are.

Both are eternal. It's just that both don't have life. Which is what you are inserting.

. One can’t get eternal punishment if one is dead.

Death is punishment. Not sure why you are not understanding that. Even our judicial systems on earth sees that as a punishment. Only difference is this is eternal death. God is sentencing them to the second "death".

Malachi 4 speaks nothing about death although the mention of chaff and ashes might seem to.

Malachi tells us what will happen to the wicked. They will "burn up". That's what a fire does. It consumes to ashes.

Look, those in the lake of fire remain in the lake of fire

There's not one verse that states they remain in the Lake of Fire. We have been told they will be consumed to ashes. Which again coincides with Christ's teaching that both body and soul will be fully destroyed.

These verses are just reiterating how it's going to be in the eternity-

Revelation 22:14 "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

Revelation 22:15 "For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie."


The latter verse is just telling us they will not be there. It does not state they are still in the Lake of Fire. They had their part in the Lake of Fire. They were destroyed before the new heaven and earth. Again, Christ states he makes all things new. And the former things will be passed away.

I'll take his word for it.