Hell doesn't exist and there is no eternal suffering, instead bad peolle just cease to exist

[Studyman]

You claim to trust "ALL" that is written in the Holy Scriptures, while rejecting or refusing to accept those which contradict your "denominational views".
You approach to the Holy Scriptures, doesn't allow them to speak to you, because you "cherry pick" verses of the Bible.

Whenever I present verses which contradict your denominations teaching, you simply look for other verses which seem to support your view. But the problem with that type of defence is that, it relies on the premiss that there are contradictions in the Bible and everyone is free to hold to their own opposing views and there is no absolute truth in the Bible.

I don't believe there are any errors or contradictions or mixed messages in the Bible. I have invited you to show me a single verse to support your opinion that there are only two kinds of death in the Bible, but you have failed to do so. I have also asked you to find a single verse to support your opinion that hell is not a place where sinners experience "Eternal Conscience Torment", and again you have failed to find a single verse to support these doctrines you hold to.

You believe in the "cessation of existence or annihilation", but you have never found a single verse of scripture to support this private opinion either. you are entitled to your private opinion, but you can't claim that it true or correct without any evidence, apart from "it seems right in your own eyes", but the Bible has something to say about "mans private opinion" --

Proverbs 14:12 "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death".
or
Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;

I understand that you are currently studying the Bible, and glad to hear that you are. Let me encourage you to continue, and allow me to share something I came to realise after studying the Bible for around three years. I had to discard and abandon many of the views and doctrines, which I held onto firmly.

It was very difficult to face the awful truth of the gospel, and allow the bible to interpret the bible. It meant that I had zero control over anything the Bible says. So, instead of me reading the Bible and drawing to conclusions, the Bible was reading me and showing me that I'm not called to evaluate or scrutinize Gods Word. Instead, God speaks for Himself through His Holy Spirit.

I found that every faithful believer, arrives at the same conclusions, because they are all led by the same Holy Spirit. We can look back over 2000 years of Church history and see the Church fathers holding to the exact same theology and doctrines, going right back to the Apostles.

Going back to our topic, I'd like to clarify what I said about man stepping into eternity. I never suggested that man's earthly body is immortal in it's present state. But all born again believers will receive their perfect, sinless, glorified "eternal" or "immortal" bodies in the life to come. We will be Chris like.
But our corrupt bodies of death, will be transformed, so there will be no corruption in us.

Likewise, all unbelievers will be resurrected and reunited with their corrupt earthly bodies and they will be cast into hell and they will feel the fires just as they would if they were back on earth, except their worm will never die and there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Ceasing to exist will not be an option.

There are only two kinds of existence in the Bible, "Life" and "Death". Those who are in Christ have life, those who are outside of Christ are "Dead", but not the death that many hope for. Those who are walking around dead on earth right now, will remain in their spiritually dead state forever, if they are not born again.
The rich man who was tormented in hell, asked Abraham if somebody could warn his five brothers back on earth, not to come to this place of torment. But he said, they have the prophets and scriptures. If they don't believe them, they won't believe one who comes back from the dead to warn them.

Your zealous promotion of your adopted religious philosophy, and your judgements against me notwithstanding, you asked me a question.

"Can you please show me a single place where I claimed that man is born immortal, I would never make such a silly statement in the first place."

Therefore, I posted two of your statements where you clearly promote the popular religious philosophy that humans are immortal. Some spend immortality in heaven with God, and some spend eternity being tortured with the demons who deceived them. I posted your own words where you preach to others that humans are immortal. I posed the question, if they are not born with immortality, which you and I believe is "Silly", then where did this Immortality that your statements claim they have, come from?

You didn't address the question, which is the most relevant question there is to ask, concerning the teaching that humans are immortal. I wish you had.

For me, I believe Jesus when HE said to "fear Him who can destroy both body and soul in hell fire", but "many", who come in Christ's Name, have chosen not to believe Him. When Jesus says "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise "perish".", I believe Jesus, but "many" who promote the philosophies of this world's religious system don't believe Him.

The Scriptures teach, "The Soul that sins shall die", not the "soul that sins shall be granted immortality, then be tortured fort eternity with the immortal angels that deceived them.

I have considered Lazarus and the Rich man, but not as a verse to separate from the rest of the Bible, and then used to support the teaching that all humans are immortal. But I added this verse with all the other verses concerning the resurrection, and studied them.

A few things you didn't mention, is that the Rich man wasn't cognoscente of the time that had passed between Abraham's resurrection and his. He had remained dead for a 1000 years while Abraham and Lazarus were reigning with Christ after Christ's Return. That's a pretty large "Gulf" that existed between them. This means he didn't know his brothers were dead as well.

Luke 16 consists a group of Parables Jesus taught the people.

You have said in your statements "Death is being separated from God for all eternity, so they experience dying an d death forever while they are fully conscience with all of their feelings intact."

And yet in the Parable of Jesus you use to promote that all men are immortal, the Rich man was in the presence of God, and not only Him, but in the presence of Abraham and Lazarus as well. Surely you can see the contradiction.

Now understand that I believe I are free to adopt and promote whatever religious philosophy you want in my view, and I am only sharing the reasons why I don't believe in this popular religious philosophy, that all men are immortal.

And it is because of consideration of "ALL" Scriptures that I believe this. It is written in the Holy Scriptures:

Deut. 30: 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that "I have set before you" life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed "may live":

This popular religious philosophy that God lied to all these people who chose "Death", and chose instead to give them immortality, and torture them forever along with the immortal angels that deceived them, is an awful and wicked judgment against God, and is not supported by Scriptures, if all of God's Words are considered, in my view.

It would be helpful if you could show us when God granted these men immortality, since you believe it is Silly to suggest they were born with it.

Perhaps I missed it in my studies. If you could show me where God directed Moses and the Prophets to teach us that all men are immortal, I would greatly appreciate it. The way it stands right now in my understanding, "If a man doesn't believe Moses and the Prophets, that the soul that sins "shall die", then neither will they be persuaded by Jesus, who rose from the dead, when HE teaches, "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

 

[Free2bHeretical4Him!]

I think the idea here has nothing to do with the sin but with doing what glorifies God. Jesus answered that neither had sinned (him or his parents). His sight being restored made the beggar a witness to Christ and, therefore, is doing God’s work.

I completely concur. The point of the beggar‘s blindness was to glorify the father through the works of the Son. I’m simply trying to point out, somehow in the minds of the disciples, the man could have sinned “before” he was born. Perhaps an idea impressed upon them from pagan influences but nonetheless, the idea is noted in thought via divine inspiration of the Scriptures. As I stated earlier, I find it intriguing … but I’m not advocating the teaching of reincarnation.

blessngs,

 

[Hentenza]

Deut. 30: 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that "I have set before you" life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed "may live":

This popular religious philosophy that God lied to all these people who chose "Death", and chose instead to give them immortality, and torture them forever along with the immortal angels that deceived them, is an awful and wicked judgment against God, and is not supported by Scriptures, if all of God's Words are considered, in my view.

I see universalists and annihilationists use the verse in Deuteronomy to suggest death but this verse is not talking about the afterlife but about their lives here on earth as they enter the promised land.

““See, I have placed before you today life and happiness, and death and adversity, in that I am commanding you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, so that you may live and become numerous, and that the Lord your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to take possession of it. But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but allow yourself to be led astray and you worship other gods and serve them, I declare to you today that you will certainly perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and take possession of it. I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have placed before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, by loving the Lord your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding close to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, so that you may live in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.””
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30‬:‭15‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Deuteronomy 30:15-20 “See, I have placed before you today life and happiness, and death and adversity, in that I am commanding you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments, His sta | New American Standard Bibl

“See, I have placed before you today life and happiness, and death and adversity, in that I am commanding you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments, His sta

bible.com

Notice the bold text above strictly talking about the land not about the afterlife. Notice the mention of “your life and the length of your days”. Nothing here about the afterlife.

And to address the eternality of both heaven and hell consider two verses.

““For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life.

bible.com

αἰώνιος aiṓnios, ahee-o'-nee-os; from G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):—eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

““Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25‬:‭41‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 25:41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

“Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you accursed people, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels

bible.com

αἰώνιος aiṓnios, ahee-o'-nee-os; from G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):—eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

There verses leave very little room to argue that, just as life is eternal, so is hell (the second death).

 

[Hentenza]

I completely concur. The point of the beggar‘s blindness was to glorify the father through the works of the Son. I’m simply trying to point out, somehow in the minds of the disciples, the man could have sinned “before” he was born. Perhaps an idea impressed upon them from pagan influences but nonetheless, the idea is noted in thought via divine inspiration of the Scriptures. As I stated earlier, I find it intriguing … but I’m not advocating the teaching of reincarnation.

blessngs,

Definitely. The verses and teaching are indeed interesting.

 

[Free2bHeretical4Him!]

You claim to trust "ALL" that is written in the Holy Scriptures, while rejecting or refusing to accept those which contradict your "denominational views".
You approach to the Holy Scriptures, doesn't allow them to speak to you, because you "cherry pick" verses of the Bible.

Whenever I present verses which contradict your denominations teaching, you simply look for other verses which seem to support your view. But the problem with that type of defence is that, it relies on the premiss that there are contradictions in the Bible and everyone is free to hold to their own opposing views and there is no absolute truth in the Bible.

I don't believe there are any errors or contradictions or mixed messages in the Bible. I have invited you to show me a single verse to support your opinion that there are only two kinds of death in the Bible, but you have failed to do so. I have also asked you to find a single verse to support your opinion that hell is not a place where sinners experience "Eternal Conscience Torment", and again you have failed to find a single verse to support these doctrines you hold to.

You believe in the "cessation of existence or annihilation", but you have never found a single verse of scripture to support this private opinion either. you are entitled to your private opinion, but you can't claim that it true or correct without any evidence, apart from "it seems right in your own eyes", but the Bible has something to say about "mans private opinion" --

Proverbs 14:12 "There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way of death".

You quote this verse then proceed to make a statement like the one I highlighted below … I suggest perhaps you are that man?

or
Proverbs 3:5 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;

I understand that you are currently studying the Bible, and glad to hear that you are. Let me encourage you to continue, and allow me to share something I came to realise after studying the Bible for around three years. I had to discard and abandon many of the views and doctrines, which I held onto firmly.

It was very difficult to face the awful truth of the gospel,

This statement alone should cause you to look at the condition of your heart brother. You view everything through the lens of death, clearly demonstrated in the above statement. The awful truth of the “good news”, is kinda an oxymoron don’t you think?

and allow the bible to interpret the bible. It meant that I had zero control over anything the Bible says. So, instead of me reading the Bible and drawing to conclusions, the Bible was reading me and showing me that I'm not called to evaluate or scrutinize Gods Word. Instead, God speaks for Himself through His Holy Spirit.

I found that every faithful believer, arrives at the same conclusions, because they are all led by the same Holy Spirit.

So everyone who doesn’t come to the same conclusion as you and those who agree with you, would be, in your mind, unfaithful and are not lead by the Holy Spirit? Read what you wrote above the highlighted sentence. Such contradictions of thought …

We can look back over 2000 years of Church history and see the Church fathers holding to the exact same theology and doctrines, going right back to the Apostles.

Going back to our topic, I'd like to clarify what I said about man stepping into eternity. I never suggested that man's earthly body is immortal in it's present state. But all born again believers will receive their perfect, sinless, glorified "eternal" or "immortal" bodies in the life to come. We will be Chris like.
But our corrupt bodies of death, will be transformed, so there will be no corruption in us.

Likewise, all unbelievers will be resurrected and reunited with their corrupt earthly bodies and they will be cast into hell and they will feel the fires just as they would if they were back on earth, except their worm will never die and there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth and they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Ceasing to exist will not be an option.

There are only two kinds of existence in the Bible, "Life" and "Death". Those who are in Christ have life, those who are outside of Christ are "Dead", but not the death that many hope for. Those who are walking around dead on earth right now, will remain in their spiritually dead state forever, if they are not born again.
The rich man who was tormented in hell, asked Abraham if somebody could warn his five brothers back on earth, not to come to this place of torment. But he said, they have the prophets and scriptures. If they don't believe them, they won't believe one who comes back from the dead to warn them.

Finally, unless I’m mistaken, you stated in no uncertain terms during your discussion that you considered yourself to be one of the elect? And I quote: “As an Elect Saint of God …” Yes? I think you might want to revisit Mathew 7: 21-24:

”Not everyone who is saying to Me, Lord, Lord, will come into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who is doing the will of My Father who is in the heavens. Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your Name? And in Your Name cast out demons? And in Your Name done many mighty things? And then I will acknowledge to them, that—I never knew you, depart from Me you who are working lawlessness.“
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭21‬-‭23‬ ‭LSV‬‬

Your position is most precarious at best and all together hopeless in its scope …

blessings,