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Featured Infant Baptism

Discussion in 'Denomination Specific Theology' started by Baileyscave, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    No offense taken-the same was true of me, having left the CC for over 25 years. Now I know that the lack of faith was mine-and that we can act out the "faith" mechanically, legalistically, or hypocritically with any form of Christianity, within any denomination. I was a member of a few. But faith, itself, is a gift we can take seriously and walk in, or not. And multitudes of Catholics down through the centuries have become authentic saints, regardless of their superiors good or bad, taking the ball and running with it. Anyway, the RCC for its part teaches that any baptism done in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is valid regardless of denomination. An "indelible seal" marks the baptized eternally.
     
  2. TKA_TN

    TKA_TN New Member

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    Where in the Bible does it explicitly say not to baptize infants?
     
  3. Monk Brendan

    Monk Brendan Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Baptism (whether of adults or babes) is NOT the same thing as a "baby dedication ceremony" at all.

    One is in the Bible; the other is not.

    Think you can guess which is Biblical and which is not?

    ALL of the pre-Reformation Churches baptize infants--by triple immersion, in the case of the Eastern ones.
     
  4. PaulCyp1

    PaulCyp1 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jesus Christ founded one Church, said it was to remain one, and promised that one Church "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". That one Church has been baptizing infants for 2,000 years. The idea of withholding baptism from infants is a modern tradition of men only a few hundred years old, and is found only in unauthorized manmade denominational churches that have rejected many of the truths of original and complete Christianity.
    In the Bible there are repeated instances where "whole families" were baptized together, which obviously included small children and infants. Also, Jesus taught that one cannot enter the Kingdom without being reborn through water and the Spirit, an obvious reference to baptism. Yet, when viewing a group of small children and babes in arms, He said "To such as these belongs the Kingdom of God". Therefore, unless He contradicted Himself, these children and babies had been baptized - which you would expect since that was the common practice of the original Christian Church from day one. The baptism of babies is described in detail by Second Century Fathers of the Church, who described it as a tradition passed down from the Apostles.
     
  5. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    Most?
    I think not.. Just a few and purley by traditions of men to please men.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019 at 12:09 AM
  6. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    Those that do it do so from a self made theology specific to thier denomination.
    And never from any direct solid unambiguous directive .

    Throughout scripture we always observe water baptism is preached in conjunction with the whole Gospel message which consists of belief,repentance water baptism and holy Spirit baptism .
    The lutheran ,for instance, mindset ignores the order of things and says repent "and" be baptised..they imply that a person baptised as a baby can then repent later on and this will validate thier infant baptism.
    However thats like saying you dont have to obey god yourself in ordee to obey Godd.
    The truth is ... To repent one " changes thier mind "(greek) deciding to go Gods way...
    And turns again to God to cease disobedience and obey him.(hebrew)
    Since water baptism is done by the individual because they are turning to go Gods way ..it is impossible for water baptism to be valid " before" repentance.
    Man might recognize it but GOD does not.
    And it is God we claim to be repenting to in order to obey him. So unless we do it HIS way by HIS order ( repent and be baptised in said order) then we remain in an unrepentant state of enmity with God.

    Then there is the danger of spiritual abduction.
    This is very sinful.
    It is much like abortion in the natural.where a childs course is set without the childs knowledge or will and thier life cut off.
    When we take a baby without thier knowledge or will and preform a religious ceremony over them ( in this instance water baptism) we violate them on so many counts and if we then tell them, "your now this or that denomination and your going to heaven ( without repentance or obedience to the gospel) then we both Lie to the child and admit we have placed them into a demonic bondage of a spirit of religion. And God will hold us to account for all violations against the innocent.
     
  7. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Most churches now days want you to be a member, or at least an adherent of that religion, to have your child baptized at a church or by a minister of religion. Lutherans will perform emergency baptisms, though, but Presbyterians won't. I have no clue about Anglican/Episcopalians or Methodists.
     
  8. Daniel9v9

    Daniel9v9

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    It's a common idea in our day that baptism is an outward act of obedience; that it's a public declaration of faith. The problem is, that's not what Scriptures say. If you believe it does, I would challenge you to read everything the Bible has to say about baptism.

    Baptism is not what we do for God, but rather, what God does for us. It's the grace and work of God, instituted by Christ Himself — that we are truly baptised into the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This is not on account of the water, but God's promise through the water; the work of the Holy Spirit.

    So the burden shouldn't be on the orthodox Church bodies to defend why children should be baptised, but on those who insist that children should not be. For where in Scripture does it say or even allude to that we must deny children God's grace? Isn't the norm in the Bible that people are born and raised up in faith, as opposed to getting to a point where they have to receive a personal experience and then make a decision to follow God? In the OT, it's very clear that all of Israel belonged to God. Likewise, in the NT, we see that whole households are baptised. More explicitly, Christ has instituted the Church to baptise and make disciples of all nations, which includes everyone. The Gospel is for everyone, for Christ says "Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven."
     
  9. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

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    Have you ever noted the imbalance of the reference " baptised in the name of ...father son holy spirit." Which appears once only in contrast to the use and practice of the apostles in the book.of acts who plainly never once baptise in any other name but that of JESUS.
     
  10. Daniel9v9

    Daniel9v9

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    :)

    How many baptisms are there for the Christian?
    One. There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

    Who instituted this one baptism?
    Christ. Matthew 28:16-20

    Who is Christ?
    He is fully God and fully man. The whole fullness of deity (the triune God) dwells in Him bodily. He is God in flesh.

    So, when we are baptised into the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, we are baptised into Jesus Christ. That is, we are buried with Christ by baptism into death, in order that, just as Jesus was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019 at 3:07 AM
  11. PoppyB

    PoppyB Active Member

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    Repent and be baptised. Babies can't repent. Baptism is only valid once a person has 'seen the light', been born again, or accepted Jesus as Saviour. Infants can't do that. Where in the Bible does it explicitly say to baptize infants?
     
  12. Daniel9v9

    Daniel9v9

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    God is the one who grants repentance. Repentance is not a moral change effected by our own will; a personal decision to change one's mind and life and to stop sinning. This is impossible for man. If it was possible, we wouldn't need Christ to fulfil the Law, die and raise for our sake.

    If you want a good image of what true repentance looks like, I would point to Luke 15, where the repentant is always found by Christ. That God grants repentance is also explicitly spelt out in Acts 5:31, Acts 11:18 and 2 Timothy 2:24-25

    A moral change, that is, a turning from sin to good works, is a product or fruit proceeding from of faith, and faith is a gift from God, not a product of our own will. The Gospel is a gift from God, and so is baptism. It's God's grace on account of His promise, that we truly are baptised into the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

    Think of it this way - an adult needs Christ just as much as a child. They are both just as helpless before God. But God, in His goodness, kindness, love and grace, has mercy on all. Christ is for all.
     
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  13. Anthony2019

    Anthony2019 "Only Me!" Supporter

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    My church offers both infant and adult baptism. We have a font in church and also access to a baptismal pool. Whatever you choose for your daughter, I hope it will be a time of great blessing for all of you.
     
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  14. PoppyB

    PoppyB Active Member

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    Absolutely!
     
  15. brightlights

    brightlights A sinner

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    Well, we've got Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Anglicans, Methodists, Reformed Congregationalists, and probably others. That represents most of the history of the church. People did not reject infant baptism until the english baptists separatists in the seventeenth century. And since then it's basically been the baptists, the anabaptists, and the traditions that have come from them which reject infant baptism. It's really a minority of Christians who reject it.
     
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  16. PoppyB

    PoppyB Active Member

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    I think that for a born again Christian family to want to 'baptise' a baby is confusing. My parents had me 'done' at a few weeks old. Neither of them were Christians and neither of them belonged to a church. It was just the 'respectable' thing to do. Once I received Jesus as an adult it caused confusion as God was telling me to be baptised and my vicar was telling me I already was. My allegiance was to God and so I left the CofE and got baptised.
     
  17. JacksBratt

    JacksBratt Searching for Truth

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    I have three adult children and I am fully understanding of the desire to do something, for our infants, in order to give some sort of closer to their eternal home.

    However, I believe that no matter what we do at the front of a church, for our infants... in the end... it will come down to them making a choice, on their own, when they reach an age where they are, in God's eyes, responsible for their decisions.

    You can sprinkle, baptize, dedicate or whatever.... in the end.. your child will grow up and go down the road that they choose.

    I have several friends who's parents left the Catholic church... all church in fact, due to a priest coming to the house and, basically, saying that their child will go to hell if they don't baptize them.

    I hold to the view that any human that does not have the mental capacity to understand right from wrong or make decisions of the magnitude of eternal destinations... will not be condemned by our God who personifies Love.

    This means infants, children and mentally challenged people with CP or autism or such medical problems.

    We dedicated each child to God and the church. Basically stating publicly that we were going to raise the child in the ways of Christ, to the best of our ability and that the church was also given permission to help in this matter.

    We then raised and taught them the ways of the bible and Christ.... and... to be good stewards and contribute to society.

    Never did we believe that this, in any way shape or form, saved our child.
     
  18. PoppyB

    PoppyB Active Member

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    Catholic and Anglican mainly.
     
  19. Newtheran

    Newtheran Well-Known Member

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    Baby dedication is not the same as infant baptism. It is a common practice among Baptists, Anabaptists, and Evangelicals for whom baptism is only an outward symbol of an inward change and reserved for those beyond an age of accountability.

    However since you're going to a *reformed* baptist church I'm assuming that you're not going to just want to switch to a denomination that baptizes infants, but a Calvinist denomination that baptizes infants. This will take most of the infant baptizing denominations off the table as they (Orthodox, Lutheran, Catholic) are not Calvinists.

    Given where you are currently attending, the following denominations would be a reasonable choice:

    Presbyterian Church of America
    https://pcanet.org/

    Christian Reformed Church
    Christian Reformed Church

    If you're not philosophically in strong agreement with Calvinism and it isnt one of the reasons why you've specifically selected a reformed baptist church to attend, I'd choose one of these five all of which practice infant baptism:

    Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America

    The Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia - Official Website

    Orthodox Church in America

    Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod - Locate A Church

    https://wels.net/

    Also, I'd say that perhaps its in poor form to turn this thread into a debate about infant baptism. We have a sister in Christ who expressed her preference for the practice and so we should simply answer the question to the best of our ability.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019 at 8:02 AM
  20. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    I do not know that we can say there is something dangerous with this ceremony. It has no scriptural basis, yet it is performed in churches that say they are guided by the Bible to the exclusion of human traditions or theories. And it does nothing that a baptism doesn't do--pledge the parents to bring up the child in the faith, show the whole congregation as standing behind that act, etc.

    So what would the correct word for that be? Its sort of like inventing a ceremony for people getting engaged who do not intend to marry. It isn't a mock wedding, so it is hard to call it wrongful, but neither can we say that it is done in accord with anything in the Bible or that it has much religious significance.

    It has no comparison to the situation with Joseph and Mary, by the way, because that Jewish practice was a marriage commitment even though it was stretched out over several different steps.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2019 at 8:14 AM
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