If you knew orthodoxy was true would you convert ?

[thecolorsblend]

The number of people utterly missing the point at least on page 1 is staggering.

But if Orthodoxy was somehow demonstrated to be true, of course I'd convert. I would hope anybody would say the same thing.

I don't believe Orthodoxy to be true in the sense of having the entire truth. But the mere fact of their existence is itself proof that they're on the right track.

 

[Catherineanne]

Thanks for teaching me the word proffered. What I want to say is there is no Protestant witnessed with power who does not know orthodoxy is true. If he doesn't know he has not been witnessed with power just witnessed. But I wonder if it be possible to be witnessed with power without listening at all or watching. I think they deserve to be witnessed with power even though they don't listen if they be good Christians but I don't know maybe they atleast need to have desire for truth by listening

Evangelical Orthodox.

That is a new one to me.

 

[Catherineanne]

St theophan says if orthodox leaves church he will lose his soul but others are saved outside because God is working. That is orthodox position of Eastern Orthodox and I agree

If Orthodoxy does not know where the Church is not, then it stands to reason it also cannot say when anyone has left the Church.

Meanwhile a safe rule of thumb is that if any church or denomination has a teaching that chimes with what Islam attempts, such as the anathematising of apostates, even to other parts of the same faith, then something is seriously wrong. Not to mention unChristian.

 

[Phil 1:21]

Mike,

Claiming omniscience and belittling others isn't a productive means of persuasion. I grew up in a church that acted the way you are communicating here. It didn't work for them; it's not likely to work for you.

I wish you well on your Chirstian journey. Hopefully one day the Lord will put it in your heart to understand He is a lot more powerful than you are giving him credit for here.

 

[thecolorsblend]

If Orthodoxy does not know where the Church is not, then it stands to reason it also cannot say when anyone has left the Church.

Meanwhile a safe rule of thumb is that if any church or denomination has a teaching that chimes with what Islam attempts, such as the anathematising of apostates, even to other parts of the same faith, then something is seriously wrong. Not to mention unChristian.

Galatians 1:8 literally addresses anathematizing heretics and arguably that would include apostates. Or am I missing something here?

 

[mikeforjesus]

I already have. I am an Eastern Catholic, and we believe all that the Orthodox Christians believe about the Eucharist.

Apologies how I answered you. You were sincere and respectful. I did not mean to judge Catholics I accept all of them who are sincere but I thought you were diverting from topic and wanted to say orthodoxy is below Catholicism

 

[Catherineanne]

Galatians 1:8 literally addresses anathematizing heretics and arguably that would include apostates. Or am I missing something here?

What you are missing is that someone changing from Catholic to Orthodox, Orthodox to Baptist, Methodist to Anglican, is NOT apostate.

Apostate is denying the divinity of Christ to become Moslem, Hindu, Buddhist etc. But even in this situation Universal Declaration of Human Rights is more important than ANY scripture.

Freedom of conscience and freedom of religion are essential and non negotiable in any civilised culture, imo.

 

[mikeforjesus]

If Orthodoxy does not know where the Church is not, then it stands to reason it also cannot say when anyone has left the Church.

Meanwhile a safe rule of thumb is that if any church or denomination has a teaching that chimes with what Islam attempts, such as the anathematising of apostates, even to other parts of the same faith, then something is seriously wrong. Not to mention unChristian.

In my opinion we do not anathematise those who enter another denomination they are welcome to attend our services without trying to force us to accept them as saved we let them come because they can learn from us but even if they don't they are welcome because we respect freedom of choice but we don't force them to adopt like Islam does. Islam does not allow them to enter their mosque fellow Muslims who leave to another branch unless they change their position that is if they are not persecuted or killed first. They let them in their mosque only if they think that will convert them.
However if their intention is to lead the flock of God astray as jesus said he who causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin it is better a millstone be hung around his neck and paul says as thecolorsblend said if anyone preaches another gospel than what we have preached let him be accursed. We leave judgement to God
We accept them to think themselves saved but we don't let them try to share anything against the faith only things in common. They are not allowed communion or to voice opposition to anything in church among it's people to ask them to fight for a change

If we accepted them as saved what would guarantee the future of orthodoxy and people to preserve it ? Orthodoxy would be deemed not true and church not necessary

 

[thecolorsblend]

What you are missing is that someone changing from Catholic to Orthodox, Orthodox to Baptist, Methodist to Anglican, is NOT apostate.

Ah, yes. That makes more sense. Misunderstood you.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Apologies how I answered you. You were sincere and respectful. I did not mean to judge Catholics I accept all of them who are sincere but I thought you were diverting from topic and wanted to say orthodoxy is below Catholicism

God forgives.

The reason I am Catholic is that I know the stability of the RCC. However, a little over twenty-one years ago, I had the joy to experience the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, and it filled my heart.

However, the Orthodox Churches have a problem out in the Diaspora--we are almost all considered mission fields. As a result, most of the bishops here in America are little monarchies by themselves. The most frequent question you will hear in the Orthodox Churches (of whatever flavor) is "WHO YOU BISHOP?"

The Eastern Catholic Churches don't have that problem. There are still many ethnic flavors, but nobody asks who my bishop is. And if someone does ask, I can tell them Bishop Nicholas Samra, of Newton MA. I know him, and he knows me.

 

[Monk Brendan]

Meanwhile a safe rule of thumb is that if any church or denomination has a teaching that chimes with what Islam attempts, such as the anathematising of apostates, even to other parts of the same faith, then something is seriously wrong. Not to mention unChristian.

There are many places where Christianity and Islam coincide. I know what you are saying, but there are points where we agree.

Note: I am NOT saying that Mohammed was the last true prophet, or that men should treat women like dirt, or that gays should be burned at the stake, etc.

 

[~Anastasia~]

God forgives.

The reason I am Catholic is that I know the stability of the RCC. However, a little over twenty-one years ago, I had the joy to experience the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, and it filled my heart.

However, the Orthodox Churches have a problem out in the Diaspora--we are almost all considered mission fields. As a result, most of the bishops here in America are little monarchies by themselves. The most frequent question you will hear in the Orthodox Churches (of whatever flavor) is "WHO YOU BISHOP?"

The Eastern Catholic Churches don't have that problem. There are still many ethnic flavors, but nobody asks who my bishop is. And if someone does ask, I can tell them Bishop Nicholas Samra, of Newton MA. I know him, and he knows me.

Ummmm .... I've never been asked who my Bishop is, and I interact frequently with Orthodox from all over in various contexts - clergy, monastics, and laity, and have traveled to do so also.

And I've never heard anyone else asked that either.

I missed some posts so I don't know what the context is but no, I don't think this is a problem for Orthodoxy. It might be asked if there was a question about someone being canonical.

 

[Monk Brendan]

I've never been asked who my Bishop is, and I interact frequently with Orthodox from all over in various contexts - clergy, monastics, and laity, and have traveled to do so also.

But it HAS happened to me, frequently. One time, I called up the Antiochian Parish here in town, and asked if they sold bread stamps. And I was asked who my bishop was. I couldn't believe it. But I assure you, they were not even going to let me buy a bread stamp unless I was, "canonical." At that point in time I was a layman, not tonsured or anything.

When I called the OCA parish, I got the same thing.

 

[~Anastasia~]

But it HAS happened to me, frequently. One time, I called up the Antiochian Parish here in town, and asked if they sold bread stamps. And I was asked who my bishop was. I couldn't believe it. But I assure you, they were not even going to let me buy a bread stamp unless I was, "canonical." At that point in time I was a layman, not tonsured or anything.

When I called the OCA parish, I got the same thing.

Well .... I don't know. I'm not sure if there's any concern over preventing things from being profaned. I could more easily imagine the desire to prevent someone with bad intentions from doing it out of concern for not assisting someone to condemn themselves. But even so that sounds strange.

If it was two parishes in one city, maybe it was some local concern you might not have known about?

I was given mine by the parish. But they can be mail-ordered. I doubt any questions asked. So I don't know why they asked you. But of all the interactions I've known it has never come up. (Except in the case of two individuals who were actually involved in ... disagreements ... with their hierarchy concerning canonicity.)

My point is, it's hardly a widespread problem for Orthodoxy.

 

[Monk Brendan]

If it was two parishes in one city, maybe it was some local concern you might not have known about?

NO! Far from it. I WAS able to get a bread stamp from the Byzantine Catholics, and they had no problem at all.

 

[thecolorsblend]

NO! Far from it. I WAS able to get a bread stamp from the Byzantine Catholics, and they had no problem at all.

Might be because ultimately their bishop is the same as yours.

 

[~Anastasia~]

NO! Far from it. I WAS able to get a bread stamp from the Byzantine Catholics, and they had no problem at all.

I'm not sure what you took my comment to mean ... my apologies as I seem to have offended you.

I had nothing in particular in mind, but I could imagine a half-dozen situations I suppose if I tried. None of which have any reflection on any particular person. But my point was just that maybe there was a reason you weren't aware of.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Might be because ultimately their bishop is the same as yours.

I should hope so. If they are following another bishop other than the Chief Shepherd, Jesus Christ, they are following the wrong person.

 

[~Anastasia~]

I should hope so. If they are following another bishop other than the Chief Shepherd, Jesus Christ, they are following the wrong person.

You mean like the ἐπίσκοπος (episkopos) the Apostles established?

Wouldn't want to have one of those?

Sorry giving you a bit of a hard time teasing you. It seemed appropriate since maybe that's what you were doing too.

God be with you.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You mean like the ἐπίσκοπος (episkopos) the Apostles established?

Wouldn't want to have one of those?

Sorry giving you a bit of a hard time teasing you. It seemed appropriate since maybe that's what you were doing too.

God be with you.

Yes, I was teasing and deserve a bit of teasing myself. Be assured that I definitely believe in the offices of the church established by the Apostles.