I struggle with...

[Wolfe]

Actually there's plenty of evidence for evolution. I'm sure you'll reject it because you want to watch an iguana hatch a clutch of puppies (which actually would falsify evolution).

There is no observable evidence for evolution between kinds, it is an educated assumption, which in turn requires faith.

Straw man. Interestingly that's exactly what Creation ex nihlo proposes.

When you have no answer for something, call it a strawman!
Or fallacy, whatever buzzword you're comfortable with using to dodge the question at hand.

Where did you get the idea that there aren't scientific explanations for those things?

because there are no scientific explanation for these things, again, only assumptions.

Evolution isn't a worldview.

I mention evolution once, and you focus on it saying I was calling it a worldview?
Did you even read what I wrote?

Atheism is a worldview, and my arguments pertain to the lack of evidence supporting it.
Honestly, how did you conclude that I was talking about evolution on the worldview bit?

 

[Richard161171]

...trying to understand the creationist mentality. I've been struggling with this for years. Is anyone prepared to give an honest, clear explanation as to why they believe in creationism?

I can explain it in a word, FAITH.

 

[Kenny'sID]

...trying to understand the creationist mentality. I've been struggling with this for years. Is anyone prepared to give an honest, clear explanation as to why they believe in creationism?

Creation just sounds far more probable than it all just happening by itself. Actually, the alternative to creation doesn't even sound possible.

Some have been brought up on evolution, but I think if they never gave it a thought and at say 30 yrs old were asked the question which sounds more feasible, they would laugh at it "just happening". For even a single cell to just form would be phenomenal, but for what we are today to just happen? It's a complete joke and I'm still shocked so many are absolutely sure if it.

Baffling.

 

[Wolfe]

For even a single cell to just form would be phenomenal

Correction, it's impossible.

 

[cuja1]

So you believe (your interpretation of) the Bible because you believe (your interpretation of) the Bible.

O... Kay...

Does anyone else want to try and explain why they believe?

I pretty much see that there is reasonable evidence for evolution. I also think that the creation story in Genesis could be interpreted differently than to mean that God created the universe in 6 days. (a day is like 1000 years with God).

But I will also allow for the fact that no-one was actually there but God so maybe... Who knows.

I take the Bible as the word of God. But nailing down a meaning isn't always easy.

 

[crossnote]

...trying to understand the creationist mentality. I've been struggling with this for years. Is anyone prepared to give an honest, clear explanation as to why they believe in creationism?

The mentality? As I was drawn to Christ my eyes were opened to the truthfulness of God's Word in the Scriptures.
It makes little sense to the natural mind.

And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
(1Co 2:13-14)

 

[Leslie B]

...trying to understand the creationist mentality. I've been struggling with this for years. Is anyone prepared to give an honest, clear explanation as to why they believe in creationism?

Hi Barry, I would be happy to answer your question but I cant guarentee that you will understand.

The reason you dont understand why we beleieve the LORD created the heavens and the earth is because faith is not something you can intellectually figure out. If everything in the word of God were logocal or in plain sight it wouls

 

[Kenny'sID]

I pretty much see that there is reasonable evidence for evolution. I also think that the creation story in Genesis could be interpreted differently than to mean that God created the universe in 6 days. (a day is like 1000 years with God)

Keep in mind, a day is still a day to us, and God was talking to us when genesis was written.

I mention that because I've seen so many throw that into the works for no good reason so it isn't just you.. Had he meant a thousand years he would have said it...he is after all smart enough to know what we know as a day, and that we know a thousand years as a thousand years. Also, he is not the God of confusion, and to mean a thousand years when he said a day would be confusing.

Just some general thoughts not necessarily directed at you.

 

[Barry Desborough]

Hi Barry, I would be happy to answer your question but I cant guarentee that you will understand.

The reason you dont understand why we beleieve the LORD created the heavens and the earth is because faith is not something you can intellectually figure out. If everything in the word of God were logocal or in plain sight it wouls

That's better. So you are saying that it is not possible to explain why you believe. Thank you.

 

[Barry Desborough]

A man wakes up, and turns to his wife, and says, I'm dead!
His wife looks at him like he's nuts, and says, surely you're not dead.
The man says, of course I'm dead, look at me!

The man continues throughout his day, believing he is dead, when finally his wife convinces him to have a psych eval.
He does so, and the doctor looks at him, and trys to convince the man of one thing, only living people bleed.
Corpses do not bleed, and the doctor shows the man all the evidence he can, save cutting the man to show blood.
And the man finally concedes, and says, ok, only living things bleed.

The doctor finally plunges a pin into the man, to draw blood.
Stunned the man looked at it, in deep reflection and finally says... Great scott! I guess dead things bleed too!

No amount of evidence will ever convince the unwilling.

Neither will no evidence.

 

[Barry Desborough]

Keep in mind, a day is still a day to us, and God was talking to us when genesis was written.

I mention that because I've seen so many throw that into the works for no good reason so it isn't just you.. Had he meant a thousand years he would have said it...he is after all smart enough to know what we know as a day, and that we know a thousand years as a thousand years. Also, he is not the God of confusion, and to mean a thousand years when he said a day would be confusing.

Just some general thoughts not necessarily directed at you.

You assume that the Bible is the word of "God", but you don't say why.

 

[Barry Desborough]

Creation just sounds far more probable than it all just happening by itself. Actually, the alternative to creation doesn't even sound possible.

Some have been brought up on evolution, but I think if they never gave it a thought and at say 30 yrs old were asked the question which sounds more feasible, they would laugh at it "just happening". For even a single cell to just form would be phenomenal, but for what we are today to just happen? It's a complete joke and I'm still shocked so many are absolutely sure if it.

Baffling.

My experience is that, even when presented with evidence that makes it totally obvious that mainstream science has generally got things right, people will go to extraordinary, fantastical lengths to deny its conclusions and cling to the account written by one particular little pre-scientific tribe many centuries ago. [Staff edit].

I offer, as an example of evidence, my FAQ on what I consider to be one of the best lines of evidence for common ancestry. It is evidence that the creation story cannot be taken literally. Nobody has come up with any reasonable counter to it, but that doesn't change their minds. This is what I find baffling. Veritas: Endogenous Retroviruses - Frequently Asked Questions

 

[xianghua]

...trying to understand the creationist mentality. I've been struggling with this for years. Is anyone prepared to give an honest, clear explanation as to why they believe in creationism?

because we have a great evidence that nature was designed:

the self replicating watch argument

 

[Barry Desborough]

because we have a great evidence that nature was designed:

the self replicating watch argument

If design was established as being true by scientific means (it can't be because it is unfalsifiable), but it it was so established, that would still not make a literal interpretation of Genesis correct. There is far too much evidence against it.

BTW, do you know what is the simplest replicator capable of undergoing variation and selection? Neither do I.

 

[xianghua]

If design was established as being true by scientific means (it can't be because it is unfalsifiable), but it it was so established, that would still not make a literal interpretation of Genesis correct. There is far too much evidence against it.

BTW, do you know what is the simplest replicator capable of undergoing variation and selection? Neither do I.

i doesnt talking about genesis now, only about the question if nature need a designer or not. and the answer is yes, as you can see from my link above. if you can refute this argument you are welcome. i will try to refute it back.

 

[Barry Desborough]

i doesnt talking about genesis now, only about the question if nature need a designer or not. and the answer is yes, as you can see from my link above. if you can refute this argument you are welcome. i will try to refute it back.

This discussion is about creationism. If I have anything to say about your OP, I'll post in your thread.

 

[Adstar]

...trying to understand the creationist mentality. I've been struggling with this for years. Is anyone prepared to give an honest, clear explanation as to why they believe in creationism?

Nothing comes from nothing.. The universe is something so it must have come from something..

For something ( physical ) to begin to exist the cause must have always existed.. God is the creator who has always existed..

People can discuss the level of Literal vs Symbolic in the revelation of the account of Creation in Genesis,,, But the important thing for a Christian is to believe it is the truth no matter where they are on the scale between literalism and Symbology

 

[Barry Desborough]

Nothing comes from nothing.. The universe is something so it must have come from something..

For something ( physical ) to begin to exist the cause must have always existed.. God is the creator who has always existed..

People can discuss the level of Literal vs Symbolic in the revelation of the account of Creation in Genesis,,, But the important thing for a Christian is to believe it is the truth no matter where they are on the scale between literalism and Symbology

Quantum vacuum fluctuations come from "nothing". The universe does not owe it to you to conform to your intuitions. But my OP was asking about creationism. I have no quarrel with Christians who accept mainstream science.

 

[Adstar]

Quantum vacuum fluctuations come from "nothing".

I do not believe that.. No matter what they are.. Nothing comes from nothing of that i am sure..

The universe does not owe it to you to conform to your intuitions.

They are not my "intuitions" if they are then they are not from God they are from me..

But my OP was asking about creationism. I have no quarrel with Christians who accept mainstream science.

Why would you want to ""quarrel"" with anyone? Can you discuss things in a calm and peaceful mannor? Or do you have to get emotionally overcharged and start to quarrel?

Also what if mainstream science is wrong? If it is wrong then all your quarreling is a waste of anger and emotion.. Yes?

 

[Barry Desborough]

I do not believe that.. No matter what they are.. Nothing comes from nothing of that i am sure..



They are not my "intuitions" if they are then they are not from God they are from me..




Why would you want to ""quarrel"" with anyone? Can you discuss things in a calm and peaceful mannor? Or do you have to get emotionally overcharged and start to quarrel?

Also what if mainstream science is wrong? If it is wrong then all your quarreling is a waste of anger and emotion.. Yes?

Feeling sure does not guarantee being right. It used to be intuitively obvious that the earth does not move, that the speed of light depended on the relative speed of the source and the observer, and that light itself was either particles or waves. All wrong.

Don't read too much into my use of the word "quarrel". I merely meant I had no disagreement worth bothering about with those Christians who are not science-denying creationists.

If mainstream science is wrong, it needs to be demonstrated that it is wrong. This will result in it being corrected. This is the beauty of science.