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I can have sex with the pastor's wife and still go to heaven

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Elder 111, Apr 17, 2010.

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  1. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

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    My brother in Christ, I'm not ignoring anything. Honestly. What I'm saying is that Paul can't be saying what ya'll think he is saying in regards to the 10 c as it would go completely against every last text that I gave to frogster. I'm in total agreement with Paul as far as Rom 8:2 and Gal 5:16-21 is concerned (Did you ever think about what I said a while ago, that there is a difference between being a sinner and sinning?).



    1 John 3:23
    And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

    1 John 5:3
    For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

    John 14:15
    If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    I'm sorry but it makes complete since. First you have to look at the context. Law is an interchangeable word is it not? God has given us plenty of commands, but the context of John 3 shows us that he is referring to a specific command, namely to believe in Christ as the Father commanded. (But tell me, when did the Father ever command us in the NT to love one another?)

    Now we see in 1 John 5 a direct parallel to John 14:15. John is repeating in essence, what Christ said was a symbol of love to Him, namely obeying His commandments. Now if you want to go to Mark 12 we see Christ saying the following:

    Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one. 30 And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

    Now were these new commandments? Certainly not. How do we know this? Deut 6:4 and Lev 19:18. The command to love your neighbor and to Love God were given by God here first. One may assume that they are repeated as "new" because they had been forgotten, or lost if you will underneath all of the garbage that the pharisee's had placed on top of God's law.

    So again, it all makes since. The only time it stops making since is when you (and not you personally, just using it generically) split the verses up and try to separate the NT from the OT foundation that they were standing on.
     
  2. Fireinfolding

    Fireinfolding ....

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    The law was ordained of angels in the HAND of a MEDIATOR, how can he be the end of the commandments when He fulfils all righteousness and through faith in Him writes them ON your heart? Its not the ones written in tables of stone but fleshly tables of the heart by the Spirit of the living God (that promised) he would do just that to CAUSE you to walk in the Spirit.

    Christ IS the end of the law, he who knew no sin was made sin that WE might be the righteousness of God in Him. HE is the righteousness of God the law and the prophets testified to, a righteousness WITHOUT the law was MANIFEST (Jesus Christ) So not only did he die for sin (whats crucified is the FIRST man now called the OLD man) and established a NEW covenant making the FIRST covenant OLD) and opened up a NEW and living way through his flesh (which was the veil)


    Christ is CALLED "The End" thats what he is "named" God hides things this has nothing to do with ending times but is about OUR apppointed time of the Father who did appoint Jesus Christ (of whom the law is a tutor)

    I would say He is the intention of God for us (and a good one at that)


    Theres the AGE of a Child and the AGE of a Son, I didnt lump them there

    Gal 4:1 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

    Gal 4:2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

    The adoption pertains to "sons"which speaks to those led of the Spirit are the sons of God that we be "no more children" and speaks to "becoming a man"

    Prov 27:23 Be thou diligent to know ~the state~ of thy flocks, and look well to thy herds.

    Phil 2:19 But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know ~your state~.

    John 21:5 Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat?
    They answered him, No.

    Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by ~reason of use~ have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

    Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them ~meat~ in ~due season~?

    Paul as a faithful servant of Christ knows "their condition"

    1Cr 3:2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were notable to bear it,neither ~yet now~ are ye able.

    Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word ~of righteousness~: for he is ~a babe~.

    1Cr 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

    Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are ~weaned from~ the milk, and ~drawn from~ the breasts.

    Isaiah 3:4 And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.

    Isaiah 3:5 And the people shall be oppressed, every one by another, and every one by his neighbour: the child shall behave himself proudly against the ancient, and the base against the honourable.

    Not saying anything different then Paul, the law was a tutor to lead to Christ and if your led by the Spirit your not under the law.

    1Peter 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.


    John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

    2Cr 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away

    Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

    Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

    Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

    What do you THINK the Spirit of God does? You think the Spirit is going to move one to murder ones brother? Its the VERY love of God thats shed in our hearts

    Ephes 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself

    2Thes 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power

    Ephes 1:9 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

    Ephes 1:5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will

    Ephes 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    :thumbsup:

    Ex 19:18 And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.

    Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,


    Go onto perfection, our obedience is fulfilled, "he will make you perfect"

    Yes heres a few too

    1Kings 22:21 And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.

    2Thes 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

    1Kings 22:22 And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.

    Job 12:16 WITH HIM **is strength and wisdom**: the deceived and the deceiver are his. :thumbsup:

    1John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are **of God**: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

    Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

    Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

    Even him whose coming is after Satan with all power (given) and signs and lying wonders, God sends the strong delusion, a lying Spirit...

    2Thes 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness **in them** that perish; ((( because ))) they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


    John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receiveme not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.


    2Thes 2:11 And for this cause **God shall** send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie


    2Thes 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

    Mark 13:22-23 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: (((behold))) I have foretold you all things.

    Heres seducing spirits

    1Titus 4:1-3 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall **depart from the faith**, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth

    First off who is rejecting knowledge? Your all over the place it says "study to show yourself approved unto God" ^_^

    Yours above highlighted in red (heres the contrast)

    1Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

    This one contrasted against

    For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.


    Not at all it says...

    Romans 3:8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

    Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    Which two are these?

    Read John he goes into the commandments, hereby we know we love God

    These do connect to one another

    Psalm 102:8 This shall be written for the generation to come: and the people which **shall be** created shall praise the LORD.

    Ephes 2:10 For **we are** his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    Exodus 19:6 And ye **shall be** unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

    1Peter 2:9 But ye **are** a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light

    Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son

    Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

    1Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
     
  3. Stryder06

    Stryder06 Check the signature

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    Indeed. We have a law that was handed directly to Moses by the Hand of God, and we have one that was mediated by angels. One passed away, the other is as eternal as the Hand that passed it down.

    Perhaps you can help me out here by explaining what you mean by "the end of the law".


    If you're taking that from Revelation, don't forget that He has several other names as well. "The Beginning and the End" symbolizes that there was nothing before Him and there won't be anything after Him. It has nothing to do with the law.

    Come again?


    And you say I'm all over the place? ^_^


    Indeed you are sadly. If Paul was saying what you're saying that would mean He too taught that people were saved different ways at different times. That would be the logic to accompany transition from one age of "whatever" to the next.


    I think the Spirit of God shows you the way. I think God allows you to decide whether or not to follow. No the Spirit wouldn't lead you to murder, but He wouldn't stop you from doing it either. Ever been angry with someone since you've been saved?

    Will, yes. Has...no.


    "They" receive a strong delusion because "they" rejected truth. You don't see the correlation to Hosea there?


    I find it harder and harder to follow you the more you include in your responses. It seems like you're grabbing random scriptures and not tying anything together regarding the subject matter.
     
  4. MamaZ

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    There were only two commandments that Jesus gave us.. Love God and Love neighbors.. This sums up all of the law. But we do not love with our own love. For God sheds His love in us through the HS. We are the temple of God now. Jesus came and fulfilled the covenant of the Law.. Now our new covenant is not the law but the Blood of Christ and His righteousness.. Trying to live according to the law is trying to establish your own righteousness.. Cant be done.. For it is only Christs righteousness that will pay the way for any man or woman or child..This is why we do not own any righteousness of our own. It all lays In Christ and Us in Him..
     
  5. Frogster

    Frogster Galatians is the best!

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    yep..it is time for some to get out of the strollers,and the high chairs,and walk in maturity.:D
     
  6. Frogster

    Frogster Galatians is the best!

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    ahhaaaaa,so Paul is not inspired,the new testament did not historically,chronologically unfold?Did jesus appoint him or not? Dude,,you really just have shown your deepest thought here,:doh:..your acting like a chief pharisee,who sat under gamaliel,did not know what he was tallking about.You never answered why Paul said no Mosaic law for the galatians ,by the way...
     
  7. JimfromOhio

    JimfromOhio Life of Trials :)

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    :swoon::swoon:
     
  8. Fireinfolding

    Fireinfolding ....

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    You had said Moses did not receive it in a post before this so which is it?^_^

    Romans 10:4 For Christ is "the end" of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

    Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

    The law and the prophets testified to Him He IS "THE END" of them the FULFILLER of them, their INTENT to SEE to THE END to Jesus Christ = The SEED= Faith is come. It switches to us "receiving THE END of your faith". As He is the author and finisher of our faith.

    It speaks of Moses glory, the covenant that come with glory we go from "glory to glory"

    2Cr 3:13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the endof that which is abolished

    2Cr 3:15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

    2Cr 3:16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

    Christ is CALLED "The End" thats what he says He IS. God hides things this has nothing to do with ending times but is about OUR apppointed time of the Father who did appoint Jesus Christ.


    Yes He is the Beginning and the End but Christ is also the End of the Law

    Romans 10:4 For Christ is "the end" of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.


    I would say He (Christ) is the intention of God for us (and a good one at that) I said. Meaning we are to put on Christ as Christ is formed in us and be new creatures in Christ.:thumbsup:

    Which one is "out of place"? The colors are surely distracting to others at times but which is untrue to the similitude of a child?



    I said...

    You replied...

    Which scripture that I posted do you disagree with you must be specific, if your talking about the child your not reading it closely enough, the heir though he be a child is LORD OF ALL but he differ nothing from a servant even Paul says "When I was a child I thought as a child, understood as a child etc but when I became a man I put away childish things".

    Why are you using the word "saved" in the context of your asking?

    Ofcourse there is a transition, "LITTLE CHILDREN" (know your sins are forgiven) YOUNG MEN ye are STRONG as it pertains to the word of God abiding in them, "FATHERS" etc we are to GROW up in Christ and we all start with MILK so we can grow thereby and Paul shows they were not ready for MEAT for he says it belongs to them of FULL AGE you are ignoring that. But theres no such ages to you when it speaks of them throughout scripture.

    Murder, such as the "act" of killing another? It runs much deeper then just that

    1John 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him
    See why the Spirit (love of God) must be shed in our hearts? Because its not just about the act (thou shalt not kill with your hands, a knife, or a gun) its about having hatred in our hearts.

    Well, I dont use that word towards people like... "how long have you been saved"? type thing...Have I been angry at someone since calling upon the name of the Lord? I sure have, I dont think Im quick tempered and feel I'm pretty slow to anger. But just as in the case love, love might not be "EASILY" provoked but it CAN still BE provoked

    Ephes 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

    Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    Prov 16:32 He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty; and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city.


    But that would indicate that you dont believe the better hope made perfect verses the law which made nothing perfect

    For instance

    1Cr 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

    But who couldnt he speak as unto spiritual?

    1Cr 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

    Theres that "age" thing again ;)^_^

    He has, is still, and will be, as I see it


    Ofcourse I simply contrasted it against what was written to Timothy because you appear to be assuming I reject knowledge. Which scriptures have I posted that makes you think that?^_^


    Point out which ones, can you be specific? On the subject of the babe I stay with that, on the subject of Moses I stay with that, on the subject of a mount I stay with that. If I call Jesus "the End" I stay with showing that and how it relates to what HE is the end of. If you talk about a powerful delusion I show you where I find one at in scripture. I dont like using my own words but His because they always justify you in your sayings not our own.

    Grabbing random scriptures? I love this example of this very thing in Romans 10:1-21 :thumbsup:

    Are these randomly picked verses ?

    Heres the order (without his "interjections")

    Paul "starts in"... Lev 18:5...

    Then he turns to.... Duet 30:12-14

    next he goes into... Isaiah 28:16

    ...he immediately turns to... Joel 2:32

    ... he returns back to.... Isaiah 52:7

    ....Then skips "up to".... Isaiah 53:1

    .... he then "turns to".... Psalms 19:4

    .... reaches "back into" .....Duet 32:21

    ..... and now he reaches further "up to".... Isaiah 65:1-2

    Just to make a "single point". Those scriptures were pulled from all those books in that very small part in Romans (which is only 21 verses long) . 10 of those 21 verses came from 5 different books but they are not from the same chapters of those books. Only twice are 2 verses taken at one time the rest "is Paul" interjecting "between them" as if "reasoning" with others by using them (from everywhere).

    Was it random? How do you determine random when you catch a glimpse of that? ^_^

    We got to keep it shorter hubby is getting jealous Im on the puter to long and I cannot stand not answering so I'll need to back out of the thread if we have too much back and forth. I'm cant do that, nor is it fun, I cant believe I used to do this lol


     
  9. Fireinfolding

    Fireinfolding ....

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    I think he needs to push us out of our strollers (kidding) ^_^
     
  10. Fireinfolding

    Fireinfolding ....

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    Touch and see ^_^
     
  11. Frogster

    Frogster Galatians is the best!

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    :D
     
  12. nephilimiyr

    nephilimiyr I've Been Keepin My Eyes Wide Open

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    The laws of the USA have to stay in place because there is no way for the US government to write their laws in the hearts of it's people, however God's laws can be and are written in the hearts of his people.

    1 Timothy 1:8, We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.
    Paul here is showing that he still believes there is a use for the law. The law is still of good use but only to convict the non-believer and point them to Christ as they have to see a need for a savior. Paul spells this out in the very next couple of verses.


    1 Timothy 1:9, We also know that law is made NOT for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers and mothers, for murderers...etc., etc.
    So here we see Paul saying that the law is not for the righteous, the believers in Christ, but only for non-believers. And now the Hebrews verse makes total sense to me.

    Hebrews 8:13, By calling this covenant new he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

    I had pretty much always understood what is said here about this being obsolete but I could never fully grasp why Paul here is saying that something is obsolete yet it's aging and will soon disappear. If it's obsolete that's it, it shouldn't be aging or still appearing but slowing disappearing, you know what I mean? If it will soon disappear means that it's still around in some form for some reason.

    But the 1 Timothy 1:1-10 passages explains this. The people who are believers in Christ fall under the new covenant, and when under the new covenant the old covenant becomes totally obsolete for them and them only. The reason why the old covenant is still lurking around is because it still can be of use to the non-believers who are not under any covenant, thus the law can still convict and point them to Christ!
     
  13. Elder 111

    Elder 111 Member

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    But He very did. What do you think Ex. 20: says, 8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

    9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
    10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Not ony is the day given but the reason.
    The day is clearly shown in the gospels Luke 23.

    54And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.
    55And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. 56And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment. Luke 24

    1Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. 2And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
    The sabbath came getween Friday and Sunday as is clearly shown the Gospels.
     
  14. Elder 111

    Elder 111 Member

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    If was to be about the Ten commandments, but as always the problem is the 4th. You will agree with the other nine wouldn't you?
     
  15. Elder 111

    Elder 111 Member

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    Now, Now, this is not about Sabbath. This is about the 613 and what ever else you may find.
     
  16. Elder 111

    Elder 111 Member

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    Do you realise that by this statement you are saying that to live by the Ten Commandments is to live a fasle Gospel? Do you realise that to say Ex 20 :3Thou shalt have no other gods before me, is to preach a fasle Gospel. Can this awaken you to the fact that these comments do not refer to the Ten Commandments and indeed can not.
     
  17. Elder 111

    Elder 111 Member

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    The ten commandments have nothing to do with these and I do nat observe them. Now if you are going to tell me that the ten commandments is done away with then tell me why do you worship God for that is the first commandment?
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2010
  18. Elder 111

    Elder 111 Member

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    Please, the ten commandmets will remind me of my sinful state and my need for Christ. Does that make it bad? To know that I am a sinner is bad? To know that I need Christ is bad? I am not saying that it is the means of salvation but it lets me know that I need salvation. Does it not? What is evil about that? God gave the law.
     
  19. Elder 111

    Elder 111 Member

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    I like your quotation. You have highlighted condemnation but you fail to see that it says minstry of comdenation. The law points out our sins, because of the law we are sinners. Death looms over us because of the law. So if there is no law them I am not a sinner and indeed can not be. So why do I need Grace? Grace is unmerited favour, why would I need it if I have no condemnation?
     
  20. Glorthac

    Glorthac Well-Known Member

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    Lol, this title is hilarious!
     
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