I can have sex with the pastor's wife and still go to heaven

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Elder 111

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No and you have the wrong question. Jesus life, death and resurrection does for the redeemed. Jesus ssid This is My blood of the new testament...Mat 26:28. And Jer 31:31-34 talks about a new covenant (testament). Can you show that Jesus was talking about some other new testament (covenant)?

Jeremiah said the new covenant would not be likie the old one established with their fathers. That covenant is unmistakealbly identified in Deut 4:13 as the ten commandments. Unless of course you can show otherwise.

I am interested, so strut your stuff. I want to see it.

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And it said how it would be different. It will be written on the heart not abolished. And a new one was made because of the peolple not the law.
Heb. 8

8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
The principles of God's Kingdom will never change. The ten Commandments are those principles and there are based on love. That is why that as many of you who say that the Ten comandment are abolished still can not procliam that a chirstian can steal or the like. You also wrongfully mix all the Mosiac laws with the Ten commandments. Sacrifices and holy days are not the same as the 10.
 
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Elder 111

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We have to remember that Grace fulfilled the Law. Law tells me how crooked I am; grace comes along and straightens me out. This verse, Hebrews 8:10 This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. Through God's grace in our hearts, we know God's laws. The Lord will not save those He cannot command.
Grace did not fulfill the law.
Grace exist because of the law. Grace is a free gift because the condemns us to death. Rom. 5

20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. 6

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
That is shall we break the law because of grace?
 
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Elder 111

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I did not expect there would be 2 people in this thread who say murder is ok and we don't have to obey that commandment.

Somebody should tell Jesus He's wrong:
Mt 19:16-20 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
In other words, those of you who insist that our "new covenant" necessarily excludes all facets of the OT, including the moral, are mistaken.
So why am I getting objections for saying that the ten commandments are still in force?
 
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Elder 111

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Stop it..:p
The law kills,condemns,arouses sin,was until,as it says 3 times in Gal3.Works wrath,is not if faith,it was bondage,it was for babies,it was not how we are sons,it was of the flesh,it was the power of sin,it was....soooo..NO! I am not inder law thanks!:thumbsup:

Dude..all your proving,is an elemental truth..the law brings a consciousness of sin...I know that,but it did it's job,now I am out of Adam,raised up with Him.Muuuuch better...:)

Why is it called the present evil age in Gal 1:4?..They had the law,yet an evil age..
If you remove that which brings a knowledge of sin, how would you convince a sinner? What is new about the testament is the Sacrify, Heb. 9

13For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
18Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
19For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people, 20Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you
 
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Elder 111

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sure they did,but it was not a transgression.Rom 5.:)
Then the law came to crystalize it,so that sin would be known.rom 7;8 and 7;13.
Folly. They sinned and because it was not written on stone does not mean it did not exist. It not Cain did not sin. God was unjust to him.
 
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Elder 111

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well sure..no good thing dwells in my flesh.rom 7;24..but if our high priest cleanses my conscience,why do i want law,to revive it ..sin..?

9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.

believe me,,,i fully see that my flesh stinks,that is why i dont go messing with it,and find it more expedient to walk in the spirit,and then the flesh will not be roused by the principle of law.

See..this is a chiken first egg thing..

some say.."i need the law to show mw my sin!"..

But i say.."the law is rousing sin":D

So becuse the law let me know that sleeping with pastor's wife is sinful I should get ridge of it? Your are smart? The pastor in trouble.
 
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Elder 111

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In Galatians 3, Paul teaches that the Law was added because of transgressions; he teaches that transgressions preceded the Law ...

how's dat - that sin was not a transgression until the Law, but transgression preceded the Law ?
Now that does not make sence. Sin is a transgression of the law so that the law had to exist inorder to have sin.
What you may not understand is that the writing of the law was giving after not that it did not exist.
 
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Elder 111

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So is he a sinner for not keeping the sabbath or is he not? For you say one thing and then another and it is confusing. He is either a sinner for not or the first sentence is not true

We sin when we do not keep the Sabbath.
 
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We sin when we do not keep the Sabbath.

Heb 4:1 Therefore, a promise being left to enter into His rest, let us fear lest any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:2 For also we have had the gospel preached, as well as them. But the Word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed do enter into the rest, as He said, "I have sworn in My wrath that they should not enter into My rest;" although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For He spoke in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested the seventh day from all His works."
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, "They shall not enter into My rest."
Heb 4:6 Since then it remains that some must enter into it, and since they to whom it was first preached did not enter in because of unbelief,
Heb 4:7 He again marks out a certain day, saying in David, "Today," (after so long a time). Even as it is said, "Today, if you will hear His voice, harden not your hearts."
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 So then there remains a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he who has entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from His.
Heb 4:11 Therefore let us labor to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall after the same example of unbelief.
Heb 4:12 For the Word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
 
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Elder 111

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The commandments are simply specifications of higher principles: namely love to neighbor and to God. Therefore, murder, theft are directly opposite to that principle, but as on which day we have to worship is something that do not directly challenges the love we are due to God.

Yes it does. God gave a pacific day. Would obey Him or do our own thing?
Love will ditate that we obey Him.
 
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Yes it does. God gave a pacific day. Would obey Him or do our own thing?
Love will ditate that we obey Him.


When was the last time you sacrificed a sin offering or heave offering at the altar?

Have you been circumcised on the eighth day of your life or on the day of your conversion?

Do you wear more than two kinds of material on your body at the same time?

Please answer honestly. I am er interested to know how much of the law you keep.
 
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why da heck would a christian even want to murder?:D^_^
I said no..but the law does not stop murder in the heart,,no?

Who said that the law stopped sinning? It is the power of God in Us. So because the speedlimits on the roads do not stop people from diving too fast we should remove them? So beacuse prisons don't prevent people form committing crimes we should close them?
 
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Who said that the law stopped sinning? It is the power of God in Us. So because the speedlimits on the roads do not stop people from diving too fast we should remove them? So beacuse prisons don't prevent people form committing crimes we should close them?
Sin is in the heart of man and it takes much much more than the 10 commandments to fix that.. The Law shows us the sin in our heart. This is why we need Christ and not the Law. For He came to seek and save those who are His and to make them all new creations in Him. Since our righteousness does not come from obeying the law and Jesus has fulfilled the law why would anyone want to tie this bondage around their necks again? The bond woman is to be cast out.
 
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Stryder06

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Sin is in the heart of man and it takes much much more than the 10 commandments to fix that.. The Law shows us the sin in our heart. This is why we need Christ and not the Law. For He came to seek and save those who are His and to make them all new creations in Him. Since our righteousness does not come from obeying the law and Jesus has fulfilled the law why would anyone want to tie this bondage around their necks again? The bond woman is to be cast out.

Could you please tell me how any of the ten are "bondage"? Especially when you consider the following:

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous (1 John 5:3)
 
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MrPolo

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So why am I getting objections for saying that the ten commandments are still in force?

Because some people take Scripture passages referring to the law being abolished to include the 10 Commandments. But you and I both see Jesus repeated the moral laws of the 10 Commandments in the NT. I think you summed it up at the end of post 341. God bless. :)
 
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Fireinfolding

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Could you please tell me how any of the ten are "bondage"? Especially when you consider the following:

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous (1 John 5:3)


It does say this

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

We need a new mind :thumbsup: The last enemy is death

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

1Cr 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

We were enemies in our minds :thumbsup:

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
 
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Frogster

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Could you please tell me how any of the ten are "bondage"? Especially when you consider the following:

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous (1 John 5:3)

usually something that is written in stone,the 10,that is deat and condemnation,would be bondage to live under..


7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? 9 For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory

Peter called it an unbearable yoke in Acts 15"10.Paul calls life under law,which includes the 10, bondage 4 times in galatians.
 
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Frogster

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Because some people take Scripture passages referring to the law being abolished to include the 10 Commandments. But you and I both see Jesus repeated the moral laws of the 10 Commandments in the NT. I think you summed it up at the end of post 341. God bless. :)

here,,i even quote from a bible that catholics prefer..the NRSV..

the 10



7 Now if the ministry of death, chiselled in letters on stone tablets,* came in glory so that the people of Israel could not gaze at Moses’ face because of the glory of his face, a glory now set aside,

set aside,or as other translations say.abolished,or anulled..

11for if what was set aside came through glory, much more has the permanent come in glory!


You need to realize the judaic system of the law was one package.The law was one..

3 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.

Even your pal james said it..


10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.
 
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Who said that the law stopped sinning? It is the power of God in Us. So because the speedlimits on the roads do not stop people from diving too fast we should remove them? So beacuse prisons don't prevent people form committing crimes we should close them?

i asked you earlier for one..one NT verse,that shows how the law stops sin in theheart,,in fact,i have shown how it powers sin,but you ignore that..

read rom 7;8,1 cor 15;56,rom 7;5.
 
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