I can have sex with the pastor's wife and still go to heaven

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Frogster

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So becuse the law let me know that sleeping with pastor's wife is sinful I should get ridge of it? Your are smart? The pastor in trouble.

what is the point,? If you still want her your just showing the futilty of the law!:D
 
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Could you please tell me how any of the ten are "bondage"? Especially when you consider the following:

For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous (1 John 5:3)
LOL.. And what are the commandments given by Jesus? It all surrounds love which is not our own love but the Love of God shed abroad in our hearts.. If you do not commit adultry physically but yet still yearn for the Pastors wife you still commit adultry for these come from the heart. This is why we need the new heart transplant from The Holy Spirit. This is why one must be born again not of the corruptable seed. The law only shows what evil is already in a mans heart..
 
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Fireinfolding

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usually something that is written in stone,the 10,that is deat and condemnation,would be bondage to live under..


7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? 9 For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory

Peter called it an unbearable yoke in Acts 15"10.Paul calls life under law,which includes the 10, bondage 4 times in galatians.

:thumbsup:

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2Cr 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2Cr 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

I like this, its kool check out how they confirm (which teachers and the way to walk and in regards to "the affliction") here and in what the apostles speak (I'll weave them)

Isaiah 30:20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers

1Thes 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost

Isaiah 30:21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

Gal 5:23 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

"Heard behind me" is an eye opening study it always brings you back to being in the Spirit
 
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Stryder06

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what is the point,? If you still want her your just showing the futilty of the law!:D


The point is that if there is no law saying what is wrong, than there isn't anything "wrong" i.e. adultery wouldn't be adultery.

And I guess the governmental powers and rules of our land are just as futile since they don't stop people from being criminals. Perhaps the good old US of A should throw out its laws too. The government could say that everyone is under the new law. They can call it, the freedom from bondage act.
 
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Stryder06

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LOL.. And what are the commandments given by Jesus? It all surrounds love which is not our own love but the Love of God shed abroad in our hearts.. If you do not commit adultry physically but yet still yearn for the Pastors wife you still commit adultry for these come from the heart. This is why we need the new heart transplant from The Holy Spirit. This is why one must be born again not of the corruptable seed. The law only shows what evil is already in a mans heart..

"I and the Father are One..." does that mean anything to you?

First you didn't answer the question in the slightest. Second you speak as if Jesus made some new law in place of God's law. Thrid, the verse from first John says that we are too keep the commandments of God. So either God and Jesus have two different laws or you're missing something. Tell me, was it not adultery to lust before Jesus came?

And when has man ever not needed a heart transplant?
 
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Frogster

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:thumbsup:

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2Cr 3:6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

2Cr 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

I like this, its kool check out how they confirm (which teachers and the way to walk and in regards to "the affliction") here and in what the apostles speak (I'll weave them)

Isaiah 30:20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers

1Thes 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost

Isaiah 30:21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

Gal 5:23 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

"Heard behind me" is an eye opening study it always brings you back to being in the Spirit
Good stuff..The age of the Spirit,has come.The law cant give life,Gal 3:21
 
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Frogster

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The point is that if there is no law saying what is wrong, than there isn't anything "wrong" i.e. adultery wouldn't be adultery.

And I guess the governmental powers and rules of our land are just as futile since they don't stop people from being criminals. Perhaps the good old US of A should throw out its laws too. The government could say that everyone is under the new law. They can call it, the freedom from bondage act.

sooo..what do you think of the fact that the law was bondage,death and condemnation?^_^

The bible is clear..no?
 
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Stryder06

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sooo..what do you think of the fact that the law was bondage,death and condemnation?^_^

The bible is clear..no?

The bible is clear...you on the other hand, not so much. If the law was bondage than you should easily be able to answer the question as to what made them burdensome.

Again if they are as you say then John was lying when He said they are not grievous.

And you in no way answered the question. Should the USA ditch their laws since they don't keep people from becoming criminals?
 
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Fireinfolding

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"I and the Father are One..." does that mean anything to you?

First you didn't answer the question in the slightest. Second you speak as if Jesus made some new law in place of God's law. Thrid, the verse from first John says that we are too keep the commandments of God. So either God and Jesus have two different laws or you're missing something. Tell me, was it not adultery to lust before Jesus came?

And when has man ever not needed a heart transplant?

Jesus didnt speak differently because Jesus said his (words) even his doctrine was not his but the Fathers. Thats why if you do not abide in the doctrine of Christ you cannot have God, its the gospel of God.

But no law had ever been given that could impart life so the law is not against the promises of God in Christ who both fulfilled the law and the prophets that the righteous requirements of the law be fulfilled in us who have faith in Christ. His righteousness which surpasses the righteousness of the Pharisees who outwardly appeared righteous before men but God knows the heart (ye have not the love of God in you) though that be the first commandment. Its by His Spirit that he sheds the love of God in our hearts and by His Spirit which he had promised beforehand that would cause you to walk in his ways, its the Spirit of grace which teaches us to deny ungodliness, and the Spirit through whom we put to death the deeds of the body. Sin will not have dominion over you for you are not under the law (which is both the knowledge of sin and the power of sin) but under grace.
 
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Fireinfolding

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Good stuff..The age of the Spirit,has come.The law cant give life,Gal 3:21

:thumbsup:

Age of a Child is under the tutor and the Age of a Son is being led by the Spirit.... "For they who are led by the Spirit are the Sons of God :thumbsup:

The child is lord of all but is subject unto gardians until the appointed time of the Father... "according to the time of life" I will come and Sarah will have a Son (the one born of the Spirit)

Gen 18:14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? :thumbsup:
 
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Stryder06

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Jesus didnt speak differently because Jesus said his (words) even his doctrine was not his but the Fathers. Thats why if you do not abide in the doctrine of Christ you cannot have God, its the gospel of God.
Indeed.

But no law had ever been given that could impart life so the law is not against the promises of God in Christ who both fulfilled the law and the prophets that the righteous requirements of the law be fulfilled in us who have faith in Christ. His righteousness which surpasses the righteousness of the Pharisees who outwardly appeared righteous before men but God knows the heart (ye have not the love of God in you) though that be the first commandment. Its by His Spirit that he sheds the love of God in our hearts and by His Spirit which he had promised beforehand that would cause you to walk in his ways, its the Spirit of grace which teaches us to deny ungodliness, and the Spirit through whom we put to death the deeds of the body. Sin will not have dominion over you for you are not under the law (which is both the knowledge of sin and the power of sin) but under grace.

You know you kinda shot yourself in the foot here right. If Jesus didn't teach anything contrary to the Father, and the Father taught obedience to His law, than that means point-blank we are to be obedient to it. Everything you said is true, but you can't separate law and grace. They both serve a very distinct function. The law only brings death because we fail to keep it. So logically it means that it brings life to those who do keep it. Since we all fail though, that's not worth mentioning, but it is nevertheless true. Since then we are incapable, due to our sinful nature to get life by keeping the law, God has given us life freely simply by accepting Christ. That's grace. We can't work to get it. We can't do anything to deserve it. All we can do is accept it.

However the law was never done away with. It's very function is to establish order, identify sin, and convict the guilty. As Christians we know no condemnation because we have accepted Christ. However, to keep from having a form of godliness only, complete obedience is a must. It brings about transformation. We are to be holy and perfect as our Father is holy and perfect. How can that be accomplished if our profession alone is Christian but our actions speak of our allegiance to someone else?
 
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Frogster

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The bible is clear...you on the other hand, not so much. If the law was bondage than you should easily be able to answer the question as to what made them burdensome.

Again if they are as you say then John was lying when He said they are not grievous.

And you in no way answered the question. Should the USA ditch their laws since they don't keep people from becoming criminals?

sorry bro..Paul spoke in the present situation,and did not want the bondgae added to the galatuians..that is a fact.

Peter gave us an historical overview,and said the fathers were under a yoke.

Soo past and present,the bible is clear..elbondageo

So how about a scriptural rebuttal?

Disprove Galatians,or what Peter said..

No semantics,no diversionary questions,disprove the facts please.:)
 
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Frogster

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Indeed.



You know you kinda shot yourself in the foot here right. If Jesus didn't teach anything contrary to the Father, and the Father taught obedience to His law, than that means point-blank we are to be obedient to it. Everything you said is true, but you can't separate law and grace. They both serve a very distinct function. The law only brings death because we fail to keep it. So logically it means that it brings life to those who do keep it. Since we all fail though, that's not worth mentioning, but it is nevertheless true. Since then we are incapable, due to our sinful nature to get life by keeping the law, God has given us life freely simply by accepting Christ. That's grace. We can't work to get it. We can't do anything to deserve it. All we can do is accept it.

However the law was never done away with. It's very function is to establish order, identify sin, and convict the guilty. As Christians we know no condemnation because we have accepted Christ. However, to keep from having a form of godliness only, complete obedience is a must. It brings about transformation. We are to be holy and perfect as our Father is holy and perfect. How can that be accomplished if our profession alone is Christian but our actions speak of our allegiance to someone else?

The last thing Paul taught was law and grace..show me on scripture to prove me wrong.



24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,


. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast


Scripture please?:)
 
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Frogster

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:thumbsup:

Age of a Child is under the tutor and the Age of a Son is being led by the Spirit.... "For they who are led by the Spirit are the Sons of God :thumbsup:

The child is lord of all but is subject unto gardians until the appointed time of the Father... "according to the time of life" I will come and Sarah will have a Son (the one born of the Spirit)

Gen 18:14 Is any thing too hard for the LORD? :thumbsup:

Interesting how gal 4,refers to law life,as worldly,and immature,elemntary, and slavery,all in one verse!.^_^

3 In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world.
 
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Stryder06

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sorry bro..Paul spoke in the present situation,and did not want the bondgae added to the galatuians..that is a fact.

Peter gave us an historical overview,and said the fathers were under a yoke.

Soo past and present,the bible is clear..elbondageo

So how about a scriptural rebuttal?

Disprove Galatians,or what Peter said..

No semantics,no diversionary questions,disprove the facts please.:)

Why do I need to disprove something I don't disagree with? It's your interpretation that leaves much to be desired, not the writtings of Paul and Peter. The fact that you won't take a look at the example I've given you in regards to how foolish it would be for our own government to throw out its laws, shows that no matter what, you're determined to see what you wanna see as far as the law and its place in our lives, is concerned.
 
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Fireinfolding

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Indeed.



You know you kinda shot yourself in the foot here right. If Jesus didn't teach anything contrary to the Father, and the Father taught obedience to His law, than that means point-blank we are to be obedient to it. Everything you said is true, but you can't separate law and grace. They both serve a very distinct function. The law only brings death because we fail to keep it.

How did I shoot myself in the foot if Christ was APPOINTED by the Fathers set time and who is CALLED "THE END" (even of the law) Was not THE END= IT IS FINISHED declared FROM the BEGINING?

It is Jesus who said I AM "THE BEGINNING AND THE END"... Unto us A CHILD is born (Under the law = AGE OF a CHILD) and unto us A SON is GIVEN = WOMAN ( said on the cross) BEHOLD THY SON as HE is the ROCK OF AGES (in more ways then just a nice saying). He stands in THE MIDST of THEM being THE END OF (the law) for the Child under the law (the tutor to lead us to Him) and the Spirit given at the appointed time of the Father (the faith of Christ) as HE is appointed to this for us.

Death had passed on ALL men, Death reign from Adam (first man) to Moses (first covenant) its WE that need to PASS from death unto LIFE which is evidenced in our love for one another (which is the fulfilment of the love of God shed abroad in our hearts) by the Spirit of the living God. We are to come to the obedience of the faith which does not make void anymore then Christ in us would not cause us not to walk in His Spirit which works in us to do His good pleasure.


So logically it means that it brings life to those who do keep it. Since we all fail though, that's not worth mentioning, but it is nevertheless true. Since then we are incapable, due to our sinful nature to get life by keeping the law, God has given us life freely simply by accepting Christ. That's grace. We can't work to get it. We can't do anything to deserve it. All we can do is accept it.

Yes we cant keep it being in the flesh, its by the Spirit of Christ that we become no longer in the flesh but in the Spirit.

Through the law comes "the knowledge of Sin"... Mount SIN-"AI" or I SIN ;)

I agree, we receive it :thumbsup:

Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.



However the law was never done away with. It's very function is to establish order, identify sin, and convict the guilty.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. :thumbsup:

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. :thumbsup:

Both are true

As Christians we know no condemnation because we have accepted Christ. However, to keep from having a form of godliness only, complete obedience is a must. It brings about transformation. We are to be holy and perfect as our Father is holy and perfect. How can that be accomplished if our profession alone is Christian but our actions speak of our allegiance to someone else?

Our obedience is "fulfilled" He brings about the transformation

1Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect,stablish, strengthen, settle you.

2Sam 22:33 God is my strength and power: and he maketh my way perfect.

Yes you dont want a FORM of godliness but the POWER of godliness:thumbsup:

2Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue
 
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Stryder06

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The last thing Paul taught was law and grace..show me on scripture to prove me wrong.



24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,


. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast


Scripture please?:)

First, Paul isn't the whole of scriptures. Second, He'd have to be tearing down the following to be saying what you say he is saying.
James 2:14-26
Psalms 37:31
John 14:15
Psalms 19:7
Psalms 119:165
Psalms 51:11
1 Peter 2:9 & Exodus 19:5,6

The list could go on. But it is beyond obvious that they bible as a whole totally shows the need for both grace and the law.

Now if you don't mind, can you explain to my how any one of the 10 is a burden when 1 John 5:3 says otherwise. You know, Paul was preaching from the foundation of the OT scriptures. He couldn't amend or even teach that the law, as in the 10, had been done away with unless there was something in the OT pointing to that happening. Couple that with Matt 24:35 and you will see that the law is very much still around.
 
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Fireinfolding

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Interesting how gal 4,refers to law life,as worldly,and immature,elemntary, and slavery,all in one verse!.^_^

3 In the same way we also, when we were children, were enslaved to the elementary principles of the world.

We are subject to vanity (which is both) a mans thoughts and childhood ^_^

Isaiah 3:4 And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.

Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Are ye not CARNAL? WALK as MEN? ^_^


Ecc 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.

1Cr 15:32 If after the manner of men I have fought with beasts at Ephesus, what advantageth it me, if the dead rise not? let us eat and drink; for to morrow we die.

2Cr 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds)

Theres skilful :thumbsup:

2Cr 6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,
 
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Stryder06

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How did I shoot myself in the foot if Christ was APPOINTED by the Fathers set time and who is CALLED "THE END" (even of the law) Was not THE END= IT IS FINISHED declared FROM the BEGINING?
Look at the context. The law, as in the 10, was taken from God's throne (which is eternal) and given to men, which were then placed inside the ark (a symbol of His throne). If Christ is "the end" of the 10, then that is synonymous with saying that He is the end of His own throne. Doesn't make much sense does it?

It is finished marked the end of what Christ came to do, and that was pay the penalty of sin. It isn't the end as time is still continuing. There is a plan of salvation. That plan has phases. The sacrifice of Christ was a particular phase.

It is Jesus who said I AM "THE BEGINNING AND THE END"... Unto us A CHILD is born (Under the law = AGE OF a CHILD) and unto us A SON is GIVEN = WOMAN ( said on the cross) BEHOLD THY SON as HE is the ROCK OF AGES (in more ways then just a nice saying). He stands in THE MIDST of THEM being THE END OF (the law) for the Child under the law (the tutor to lead us to Him) and the Spirit given at the appointed time of the Father (the faith of Christ) as HE is appointed to this for us.
Perhaps it'd be easier for you to see the fallacy of this logic if you stopped lumping the progress of mankind into ages. To keep it short, by doing that you are saying that people at different times were saved in different ways.

Death had passed on ALL men, Death reign from Adam (first man) to Moses (first covenant) its WE that need to PASS from death unto LIFE which is evidenced in our love for one another (which is the fulfilment of the love of God shed abroad in our hearts) by the Spirit of the living God. We are to come to the obedience of the faith which does not make void anymore then Christ in us would not cause us not to walk in His Spirit which works in us to do His good pleasure.
To be technical, Moses didn't receive the "first" covenant. And doing God's good pleasure = being obedient to his commandments. That is what the Spirit in you is trying to do.

Through the law comes "the knowledge of Sin"... Mount SIN-"AI" or I SIN ;)
Wouldn't go there since it was upon that mountain that Christ descended wrapped in flame, and heralded by thunder and the sound of the trumpet.



Romans 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.



Our obedience is "fulfilled" He brings about the transformation
Fulfilled means to fill full, to make complete. Our obedience isn't at that point yet. We are, rather, in the process of reaching that point, as 1 Peter shows.


Yes you dont want a FORM of godliness but the POWER of godliness:thumbsup:
The things it that that is exactly what you get when you determine to be disobedient. Recall what Paul said:

The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness

Cross reference that with the following:
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. (Hosea 4:6)

It is no small thing to spurn the commandments of God. And please don't misunderstand what I'm saying. I'm not pointing the finger at anyone here saying that you are bound for damnation. I do however fear that some may be deceived into thinking too lightly of the law of God.

Notice how He said "You shall be no priest to Me." Now if you look at 1 Peter 2:9 we are called a royal priesthood, this is directly referring to Exodus 19: 5,6. The logic follows then that those who are priest of God, keep His commandments.
 
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bugkiller

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First, Paul isn't the whole of scriptures. Second, He'd have to be tearing down the following to be saying what you say he is saying.
James 2:14-26
Psalms 37:31
John 14:15
Psalms 19:7
Psalms 119:165
Psalms 51:11
1 Peter 2:9 & Exodus 19:5,6

The list could go on. But it is beyond obvious that they bible as a whole totally shows the need for both grace and the law.

Now if you don't mind, can you explain to my how any one of the 10 is a burden when 1 John 5:3 says otherwise. You know, Paul was preaching from the foundation of the OT scriptures. He couldn't amend or even teach that the law, as in the 10, had been done away with unless there was something in the OT pointing to that happening. Couple that with Matt 24:35 and you will see that the law is very much still around.
You are ignoring our quotes from Romans 8:2 and Gal 5:16-21. Paul is not tearing down the law, while he is not preaching obedience to it either. Paul is supporting the new concept while using the old to establish what he is saying. Previous concepts are the only means to establish new concepts. Ias 28:10 supports this concept. It says precept upon precept and line upon line.

I John 5:3 is not a reference to the ten comandments. I John 3:23. You ar using 5:3 out of context or 3:23 makes no sense.

bugkiller
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