"How I Good Conscience a believer in Christ can Vote Democrat"

[Online.Gamer.79]

This is in response to the topic
"How In Good Conscience Can A Christian Vote Democrat"

I notice the mention of abortion and someone else about Homosexuality. So lets look at both.

The bible says if you commit murder the punishment is death

You shall not murder" (Exodus 20:13, Deuteronomy 5:17).
A murderer must be put to death, as it says "He shall be avenged" (Exodus 21:20, see Leviticus 24:17,21); it is forbidden to accept compensation from him instead, as it says "You shall not take redemption for the life of a murderer...; and there shall be no atonement for the blood that was spilled... except the blood of him that spilled it"

You all declare abortion to be murder and against gods laws.

Exodus 21:22-25
And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no [further] injury, he shall surely be fined as the woman’s husband may demand of him; and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any [further] injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

A unborn child is not a human being in the eyes of god...if it was the sentence for causing a woman to lose her child would be death.

Your hoopla over abortion is a personal moral belief...not a religious one. Argue all you want but those are gods words your arguing not mine.

As for homosexuality...who someone loves or marries or has a family with is there buisness...no one has the right to force there religion onto them. And another thing and this does make since...the laws on homosexuality in the bible look a little bit more like laws on population control...the Jewish people were a very small tribe and every child was needed. You can not have children with someone of the same sex.

The biggest reason Christianity is losing members is cause your asking people to chose god over there family. If my child was gay and was to be sentenced to hell I would not be going to heaven I would chose to suffer with my child. And I have heard many former Christians say that. I believe in god, Jesus, I worship them both but I do not think all of the bible is the word of god...facts are books have been added removed edited and translated into hundreds of languages. Many words have different meanings especially in English.

I also take into account the personal beliefs and prejudices of that time. Until a little over 600 years ago most uneducated people thought the earth was the center of the universe and was flat. And both protestant and catholic church leaders encouraged those beliefs...and when someone challenged those beliefs they were imprisoned. Galileo and Copernicus two men who challenged the ignorance of the church and the church tried to stamp it down...and failed.

For me believing in Christ is a personal belief. I can vote democrat because many liberal views stand with what Christ preached. If I see someone on the side of the road asking for money or food and I have it I give it. Maybe they will go get drunk or high or maybe they will go get something to eat. I do not approve of taking illegal immigrants, separating children and parents and putting kids in cages basically, I know people who worked for ice and were fired for speaking out on the abuse they saw.

The two most important of gods laws are love the lord and your neighbor. And according to the bible your neighbor is everyone, not just Christians, the parable of the good Samaritan Gospel of Luke (Lk 10:25–37) says that. And in the Parable of the rich man and Lazarus (not the one Jesus raised from the dead) (Luke 16:19–31), Jesus shows the fate of those who do not help there neighbor...you go to hell.

Someone said covid was not Trumps fault.
When he said it was fake news and not a risk, when he fired those who were qualified to handle this problem and replaced them with a moron who could not get a job at nursing home as CNA...he made it his problem. Since the late 70s this man has been the poster child for, cheating on his wives, stiffing the people who worked for him...those two by itself make him a liar a cheat and thief.

The republican party knows what he is...John McCain a man and a republican I voted for thought Trump was trash. Bill Cosby was accused of rape dozens of times and everyone tared and feathered this man. Trump and Cosby's rape accusations mirror each other. You argue Trump was never convicted but you had no problem with judging and convicting Cosby in the court of public oppinion

A politician is by nature a liar a cheat...but they also need to competent at there job and they way Trump has handled 2020...it has shown he is buffoon. Hillary Clinton, Jeb Bush, Mike Pence, Barrack Obama...two republicans two democrats and all four could have done a better job over covid than trump

So here is question for republicans...how can any Christian vote for trump and call themselves a Christian

 

[Friedrich Rubinstein]

I do not think all of the bible is the word of god

That's where your problem is. You'll be very surprised when Jesus returns and you find out that the Bible is God's word from beginning to end. God is the one giving life, killing unborn children is taking away the life that God gives. And men who have sex with men will not enter the kingdom of heaven. It's clear and easy.

We can't pick and choose from the Bible.

 

[SeventyOne]

While reading your reasoning, I had Isaiah 5:20 come to mind several times. As a christian, I'm sure you can appreciate that.

 

[LaSorcia]

I really have no idea why so many Americans need to associate one political party with God and the other with Satan.

 

[paul1149]

And if men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child

This concerns manslaughter rather than murder, doesn't it? The harm to woman and child was an unintentional of an altercation. In that case the statute about murder mandating capital punishment would not apply.

But more importantly, let's frame that verse with some context. Here are the verses immediately before it:

"And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. "Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he [is] his property. - Exo 21:20-21​

Does this seem like God's final word on murdering a servant? If it is, we're all in trouble, because in that case the New Testament cannot be maintained as a clearer, more accurate representation of the Father's heart. The Law was given as a "prosthesis" according to Paul at Gal 2, to help Israel limp along until the true healing came in Christ. Concerning divorce, Jesus had already said that it was allowed due to the hardness of heart back then, so we know that parts of the Law were merely provisional. So we shouldn't take one verse and build an important doctrine on it. The full counsel of Scripture, which is what Paul requires in speaking to the Ephesian elders at Acts 20, testifies that the unborn is precious in God's sight, and that has always been the belief of the church. In fact, the secular Hippocratic oath prohibits abortion; the ancients back then had more moral sense than our dominant culture today.

Science also agrees that the unborn is human. I don't believe we have ground to take an outmoded verse from the Law, one that applied to manslaughter and not intentional murder, and apply it to willful abortion today.

 

[Online.Gamer.79]

This concerns manslaughter rather than murder, doesn't it? The harm to woman and child was an unintentional of an altercation. In that case the statute about murder mandating capital punishment would not apply.

But more importantly, let's frame that verse with some context. Here are the verses immediately before it:

"And if a man beats his male or female servant with a rod, so that he dies under his hand, he shall surely be punished. "Notwithstanding, if he remains alive a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he [is] his property. - Exo 21:20-21​

Does this seem like God's final word on murdering a servant? If it is, we're all in trouble, because in that case the New Testament cannot be maintained as a clearer, more accurate representation of the Father's heart. The Law was given as a "prosthesis" according to Paul at Gal 2, to help Israel limp along until the true healing came in Christ. Concerning divorce, Jesus had already said that it was allowed due to the hardness of heart back then, so we know that parts of the Law were merely provisional. So we shouldn't take one verse and build an important doctrine on it. The full counsel of Scripture, which is what Paul requires in speaking to the Ephesian elders at Acts 20, testifies that the unborn is precious in God's sight, and that has always been the belief of the church. In fact, the secular Hippocratic oath prohibits abortion; the ancients back then had more moral sense than our dominant culture today.

Science also agrees that the unborn is human. I don't believe we have ground to take an outmoded verse from the Law, one that applied to manslaughter and not intentional murder, and apply it to willful abortion today.

As I said the bible is made of of hundreds of books that were added removed and edited about 1400 years ago. Over a period of 200 years the church created what would eventually be the bible we read today. You can not compare laws from thousands of years ago to today. That book also said if a woman cheated on her husband or had sex before marriage she was to killed, a child who disrespected there child repeatedly. In the old testament god commanded the Jews to Kill every man woman and child in the promised land but they were allowed to keep the young virgins and we all know what was done to them...now does that sound like a law from a loving merciful god...kill woman and children...virgins kept for raping I mean come on. You say manslaughter but that is a modern term for killing. The bible says absolutely nothing about abortion and I do not support it as a personal belief but I do not believe I have the right to force that belief on another I also know several woman who had abortion, One was raped the other was 60 years old it was one of those fluke things that happens sometimes. about three months in they a found alot of problem in the fetus..so many that the Childs life if it survived birth would live a very short very painful life. A fetus does not start to register things like pain and consciousness till about 28 weeks...that part of the brain does not start forming till about then...so she decided not for herself cause she was willing to have another child but for the unborn Childs sake to spare it the sufferings...I have never actually heard of a sane woman having an abortion just for the hell of it. So I believe a fetus is a human but I also believe a woman should have the right to chose. And really any law made can be ignored, there are simple plants you can take that will abort a child. You can go to a country that does allow abortion...and if somehow Christians made it illegal, it would be the return of the back alley butchers...so a law against it is stupid and will not accomplish anything.