Sununu rips Scott after Trump endorsement: ‘Nobody’ thinks he will unite the country

[ralliann]

What is a "parental right to freedom of religion"?

To train up their house in the Lord. You think you even have the power to enquire the validity to take your power to (reindoctrinate) away.....despite so much of this has nothing whatever to do with basic academics.

 

[ralliann]

You are not making sense. The schools are not teaching religion yet somehow infringing on your religious beliefs?

It’s always been take the “free” school or pay for your choice of school.

Nobody is asking you to teach religion, that is the responsibility of Parents. What we are asking is to not teach against our religion. Which these social issues are doing. It is a reindoctrinating. Nobody should have to "pay" to avoid that. We are all paying taxes for an education already.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Nobody is asking you to teach religion, that is the responsibility of Parents. What we are asking is to not teach against our religion. Which these social issues are doing. It is a reindoctrinating. Nobody should have to "pay" to avoid that. We are all paying taxes for an education already.

Which "social issues" are "teaching against your religion" and how are they doing so?

 

[ralliann]

Which "social issues" are "teaching against your religion" and how are they doing so?

Sexuality issues for one. Some schools are now teaching pro Palestinian rhetoric. Taking liberties in all kinds of areas. Leave that stuff out of it and teach academics as our tax dollars pay for.

 

[comana]

Nobody is asking you to teach religion, that is the responsibility of Parents. What we are asking is to not teach against our religion. Which these social issues are doing. It is a reindoctrinating. Nobody should have to "pay" to avoid that. We are all paying taxes for an education already.

That is a huge ask to expect nothing taught in a public school to go against your religious beliefs or any of the many religious of every other parent. Your job is to teach and reinforce your religious beliefs in church and at home. If you want to customize your child’s education experience you will need to do that via private or home school with any additional expense that may require.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Sexuality issues for one.

What, specifically, about sexuality issues? Teaching that gay and/or trans people exist? Teaching that they ought to be treated with dignity and respect? How to use contraceptives? The efficacy of contraceptives? Taking a position on the morality of certain acts? Not taking a position on the morality of certain acts?

Some schools are now teaching pro Palestinian rhetoric.

What does supporting Palestinians have to do with your religion?

ETA: I'm not trying to be belligerent. I'm trying to define what it is, exactly, that you're looking for, which is also what you'd have to do in order to get this implemented.

 

[ralliann]

That is a huge ask to expect nothing taught in a public school to go against your religious beliefs or any of the many religious of every other parent. Your job is to teach and reinforce your religious beliefs in church and at home. If you want to customize your child’s education experience you will need to do that via private or home school with any additional expense that may require.

I should not have to pay to not have my religious freedom infringed by a Public school. It is not a huge ask. You have just gotten used to doing as you think fit with no regard to these things is all.

 

[ralliann]

What, specifically, about sexuality issues? Teaching that gay and/or trans people exist? Teaching that they ought to be treated with dignity and respect? How to use contraceptives? The efficacy of contraceptives? Taking a position on the morality of certain acts? Not taking a position on the morality of certain acts?



What does supporting Palestinians have to do with your religion?

Why are you asking me these things? What has this issue to do with with basic education? It is a political issue. You all have gotten so used to these abuses you can't tell the difference. I don't have to answer to you! We don't pay taxes for our kids to be taught your political biases. There is no talking to you. We are just going to have to continue to appeal to law and our founding documents for remedy.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Why are you asking me these things?

I'd edited my post with a bit of clarification:

ETA: I'm not trying to be belligerent. I'm trying to define what it is, exactly, that you're looking for, which is also what you'd have to do in order to get this implemented.​

What has this issue to do with with basic education? It is a political issue.

I don't know what specific rhetoric you're referring to, but analyzing current events is an entirely appropriate exercise for a classroom, especially as students get into high school. Contemplating the ethical implications of certain activities and situations would be an appropriate classroom exercise as well.

I don't have to answer to you!

You don't, but if you don't want to talk about things, why are you here?

There is no talking to you.

There's no talking to me? I've put more effort in my responses to you than you have in your responses to me. I'm literally asking you questions about your opinion. Probing your position is not being obstinate. It's treating you and your position with a degree of respect and expecting that you're able to articulate yourself. If I thought you were incapable of that, I'd just ignore you.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

Infringing on my parental right of parenting IN THE LORD.

Pr 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
Eph 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.

It's your right to believe that...however it's not your right to demand that the rest of society alter their speech behavior in order to accommodate your wanting your children to have the same religious views as you.

We are commanded concerning our household.
And public schools getting into issues of sex, are violating that. As your post displays you believe you have every right to indoctrinate my child/ house otherwise. As you believe it is not my religious right at all, though it is my responsibility in the LORD.
All adults will choose concerning "religion" when they are grown, before that it is my religious freedom in fact a responsibility over my household you boldly infringe.

The ability to insulate someone else from information that could lead them to question your views isn't a constitutionally protected right.

Your religious rights are just that, your right to believe whatever you want, for what any reason you want, and congress can't pass any laws that prohibit you from believing that, and they can't lock you up merely for your believing. Nor does a science teacher at your kids school teaching about evolution stop you from believing what you want.

However, there's no such constitutional provision that confers "a right to to have the rest of society and government guard my views against opposing views so that my kids won't believe something different from me", that's not a thing.

This is a similar conversation I've had before with people from the other side of the fence who want special limits put on speech based on reasons of political correctness. I've told them "there's a right to free speech, there's no such thing as a right not to be offended" ...similar dynamic at play with this topic.

The only thing that's guaranteed (in our system at least, attitudes are a little different in theocratic systems) is your right to believe in your preferred god, or gods, or absence of god, without fear of government reprisal. There's no constitutional guarantee that the government and rest of society has to help you pass down your religious viewpoints like a hereditary trait.


What your demanding is, in essence, no different than if Jewish or Hindu parents demanded that the schools only serve "religion neutral foods" in the cafeteria (even if all the other kids and parents have no problem with pizza and hamburgers) for the reason of "Well, if my kid sees other kids eating that bacon cheeseburger, they may want to try it, and it may cause them to not want to be part of my religion anymore or question some aspects of it" -- that wouldn't be a reasonable demand.

 

[ralliann]

I'd edited my post with a bit of clarification:

ETA: I'm not trying to be belligerent. I'm trying to define what it is, exactly, that you're looking for, which is also what you'd have to do in order to get this implemented.​

I don't know what specific rhetoric you're referring to, but analyzing current events is an entirely appropriate exercise for a classroom, especially as students get into high school. Contemplating the ethical implications of certain activities and situations would be an appropriate classroom exercise as well.




You don't, but if you don't want to talk about things, why are you here?



There's no talking to me? I've put more effort in my responses to you than you have in your responses to me. I'm literally asking you questions about your opinion. Probing your position is not being obstinate. It's treating you and your position with a degree of respect and expecting that you're able to articulate yourself. If I thought you were incapable of that, I'd just ignore you.

You think I should have answer to you. The effort you have put in is to answer to you, which is not respect, but an entitlement of your own role in educating our Children. And answerable in a manner you deem worthy, otherwise ignore it. This is the mindset where educators have set themselves. It is all about what you deem relevant, what you deem of value. Therefore it has become apparent for many in education, the appeal to law and founding documents of this country is the only remedy here.

 

[comana]

I should not have to pay to not have my religious freedom infringed by a Public school. It is not a huge ask. You have just gotten used to doing as you think fit with no regard to these things is all.

No, you want to use a public resource and have it meet your demands. My parents paid for me to be privately educated through the 7th grade, most of those schools were Christian. That was their choice to pay to choose what I would be taught. Though I will say that my education experience greatly improved starting with the 8th grade when they enrolled me in public school.

 

[iluvatar5150]

You think I should have answer to you. The effort you have put in is to answer to you, which is not respect, but an entitlement of your own role in educating our Children. And answerable in a manner you deem worthy, otherwise ignore it. This is the mindset where educators have set themselves. It is all about what you deem relevant, what you deem of value. Therefore it has become apparent for many in education, the appeal to law and founding documents of this country is the only remedy here.

I have no idea what you're going on about. You signed on to a discussion board where people discuss things but are taking offense at people who assume you to be willing and able to discuss things. If you can't explain to me, some random dude on the internet, what it is you want changed, you're not going to have any luck getting anybody else to actually act on those desires.

 

[ralliann]

It's your right to believe that...however it's not your right to demand that the rest of society alter their speech behavior in order to accommodate your wanting your children to have the same religious views as you.

We are asking you not oppose. There is utterly no reason to. I do not have to answer to you concerning my beliefs. Which your above assumption is ignorant. And no, I do not need to explain how to you.

The ability to insulate someone else from information that could lead them to question your views isn't a constitutionally protected right.

Again you are off base. And no I don;t answer to you. I do not need your permission for anything here. Get your nose out of these things. But for some reason you just cannot seem to.

Your religious rights are just that, your right to believe whatever you want, for what any reason you want, and congress can't pass any laws that prohibit you from believing that, and they can't lock you up merely for your believing. Nor does a science teacher at your kids school teaching about evolution stop you from believing what you want.

It does not need to go into sexuality, or politics. Especially in lower grades.

However, there's no such constitutional provision that confers "a right to to have the rest of society and government guard my views against opposing views so that my kids won't believe something different from me", that's not a thing.

You have no right to infringe on my religious freedom over my household. Get your nose out of religious pushback.

This is a similar conversation I've had before with people from the other side of the fence who want special limits put on speech based on reasons of political correctness.

Ah, yeah you have the power to speak whatever you think is right. And you dislike the idea of ANYONE who might disagree. You don't know the difference.

I've told them "there's a right to free speech, there's no such thing as a right not to be offended" ...similar dynamic at play with this topic.

Then why are you so offended? Because only you can be offended?

The only thing that's guaranteed (in our system at least, attitudes are a little different in theocratic systems) is your right to believe in your preferred god, or gods, or absence of god, without fear of government reprisal. There's no constitutional guarantee that the government and rest of society has to help you pass down your religious viewpoints like a hereditary trait.

LOL. You just cant tell the difference between You are not doing, vs you are doing here can you? Let parents do the doing, and get your nose out of it. See, nobody is asking you to DO anything. Get out of it. But for some reason you just do not want to.

 

[ralliann]

No, you want to use a public resource and have it meet your demands. My parents paid for me to be privately educated through the 7th grade, most of those schools were Christian. That was their choice to pay to choose what I would be taught.

I am not asking you to teach religion alongside academics. I am not demanding that.

Though I will say that my education experience greatly improved starting with the 8th grade when they enrolled me in public school.

Good for you. The contrary has been found also. However this is not about anyone asking any public school to teach religion. It is more a demand for you to stay out of it in all the forms it has Taken as of late. But just this simple request is twisted into something it is not. I have not asked you to teach religion and you cannot tell the difference.

 

[comana]

I am not asking you to teach religion alongside academics. I am not demanding that.

Good for you. The contrary has been found also. However this is not about anyone asking any public school to teach religion. It is more a demand for you to stay out of it in all the forms it has Taken as of late. But just this simple request is twisted into something it is not. I have not asked you to teach religion and you cannot tell the difference.

I have not said anything about teaching religion in public schools. Of course religion is not going to be taught outside of historical references. You seem to be requiring that public schools not offend your religious beliefs. That is not their job.

 

[ralliann]

I have not said anything about teaching religion in public schools. Of course religion is not going to be taught outside of historical references. You seem to be requiring that public schools not offend your religious beliefs. That is not their job.

I am asking you .....to not "infringe" on my parental rights with regard to my household/ Children, it is a family matter.
But you seem bent on using terms of your own ("offending" vs "infringing") choosing to give your own meaning, which is not really different. Your job is to teach academics, but it is you that is insisting that necessarily is going to involve religious beliefs. You know it, because you are acknowledging it, over and over again. I am saying it does not have to, you end up saying yes it does.

 

[Belk]

To train up their house in the Lord. You think you even have the power to enquire the validity to take your power to (reindoctrinate) away.....despite so much of this has nothing whatever to do with basic academics.

Yeah, that is not a thing. You don't have a "right" to limit what your child experiences.

 

[ralliann]

Yeah, that is not a thing. You don't have a "right" to limit what your child experiences.

Oh, who does? You?
See this is the kind of hateful dismissal I am talking about.

 

[comana]

I am asking you .....to not "infringe" on my parental rights with regard to my household/ Children, it is a family matter.
But you seem bent on using terms of your own ("offending" vs "infringing") choosing to give your own meaning, which is not really different. Your job is to teach academics, but it is you that is insisting that necessarily is going to involve religious beliefs. You know it, because you are acknowledging it, over and over again. I am saying it does not have to, you end up saying yes it does.

What? No. There is no teaching of religious beliefs in public school. You are the one consistently bringing religion into it. Sex ed is not religion. Political anything is not religion. Social issues- not religion.