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Few will be saved?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Neostarwcc, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. ronstlaurent

    ronstlaurent New Member

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    The word is very clear on how we are supposed to be. I had spent many years believing in a religion until I started asking questions and sensing there was more. I am an Acts 2:38 guy where I am baptised in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost because I asked Jesus to show me who He really is. When you really begin to read the word you will find out that a religion or doctrine doesn't quite fit. This is because of man not being filled with the Holy Ghost and not waiting on the Lord. There is only one word and one truth and the bible KJV is the only truth we have to rely on. If it isn't in the word it isn't of God. This is why some consider themselves Christian but will be turned away for lack of truth. Again the bible is very clear about this and most will be lost because they reject the truth.
     
  2. LadyCrosstalk

    LadyCrosstalk Active Member

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    I think most true Christians understand what makes one a true Christian. 1John was written to early Christians who were puzzling over what a true Christian looks like. The Apostle John gives lots of criteria. The Apostle Paul gives a key element in Romans 8:9. Those who have only had water baptism without the baptism of the Holy Spirit are not true Christians. There are many "cultural" Christians and certainly, Christianity informs our culture, but as the influence of the Church wanes, we see more and more depravity invading our culture. If the trend continues we will end up as just another pagan nation, ripe for God's judgment. The western nations have had unique blessings because of the presence of the Church in them. But Europe already describes itself as "post-Christian". What they don't understand is that our hearts were made to worship and when we don't worship the one true God, we end up in idolatry. Idolatry in ancient Israel led to profound depravity.
     
  3. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    And you don't see this type of belief you described to me as not being immoral?

    Do you understand what morality is?

    Do you think God is not moral and good?

    Obviously you missed the following passage in your Bible or you do not simply understand it's plain meaning,

    5 "God;
    6 ...will render to every man according to his deeds:
    7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
    9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
    10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
    11 For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:5-10).
     
  4. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

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    "I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ." Philippians 1:6

    I'm sure too. But according to you that's going to lead to me becoming a great sinner in this life. According to you believing what God has told me here will amount to "approving" of sin and even makes me preach a gospel which makes God "approve" of sin.

    Jason - what makes you think that threatening a believer with Hell fire will assist the Lord in His appointed task of bringing to completion what He started? What makes you think that Jesus needs any encouragement from you to cause Him to not loose anyone the Father has given to Him - as He has been charged with by the Father and promised the Father to do?

    Do you suppose that a root of your error is not believing that God, in the first place, is the one who began the good work He is doing in us?

    "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." Hebrews 12:2

    I'm beginning to think that you don't believe that Jesus really is the author and finisher of our faith as the scriptures tell us.

    I've charged before, to some of you folks, that you are coming perilously close to preaching another gospel.

    Perhaps it goes even deeper than your coming close to preaching another gospel.

    Perhaps you didn't correctly understand the gospel of grace in the first place???

    He's the one who chose us before the foundation of the world to be eventually conformed to the image of His Son. He's the one who gave us to His Son, drew us to His Son, and will keep us in His Son.

    He did and is doing it all for HIS glory and not ours.

    We are just privileged to be the recipients of His amazing grace which will lead to a display of us and our salvation in the ages to come to His everlasting glory.
     
  5. SBC

    SBC Well-Known Member

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    Which belief?

    The one where there was INTENT to harm could occur....?
    or
    The one where there was NO INTENT to harm, but harm could occur...?

    God Bless,
    SBC
     
  6. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Romans 5:14 Romans 5:20-21
     
  7. SteveIndy

    SteveIndy Active Member Supporter

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    This is one of those verses that need no interpretation. The road may be far more narrow than most Christians think. That "broad way" of which He speaks are Christians who have mistakenly believed that they are following Jesus. The great apostasy of the end days are those great multitudes of supposed believers who have followed a false gospel. Jesus said that the end would be characterized by evil becoming good and good becoming evil; He was speaking of supposed Christians. And, that is exactly what we are seeing. Jesus speaks plainly that we should love our enemies but today Christians purchase guns for self-defense, they serve on jury duty to judge and condemn, they join the military to kill our national enemies, and all of this and more is very common today. Christians today are no different than the Jews of old who wanted a king to rule over them. They get all foamed up over politics and voting and claim that they need a Christians government to enforce righteousness when Christ alone should be their King and righteousness. When you consider the magnitude of Christian patriots and how anti-Christian it is it is no surprise that there are very few true Believers and that Christ said: "Will I even find faith on the earth when I return."
     
  8. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    The KJV is based on the faulty translations of Erasmus who had only ninth century manuscripts. He also included the spurious 1 John 5:7-8. We now have the Vaticanus and Sinaiticus uncial and more than 300 other manuscripts from the 2nd century plus 1000 miniscules
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  9. rrobsr

    rrobsr Active Member

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    Jesus was sent for Israel (Matt 15:24) so everything he said was meant for them. The church of his body (Eph 1:22-23) was at that time still a mystery hid in God (Eph 3:9). Jesus didn't even know it. Therefore he was not talking about Christians at all, but about Israel. Apparently few of them will be judged righteous and admitted into the new heavens and earth.
     
  10. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc We are saved purely by the work and grace of God. Supporter

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    That makes sense. Thanks for the reply.
     
  11. lsume

    lsume Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Matt.7 Verses 21 to 23

    1. [21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
      [22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
      [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
    There are many professing Christians but few truly born again Christians. Many are called but few are chosen. The first commandment is impossible to obey without first experiencing God's Perfect Love. Since Christ was broken, all of His brothers and sisters must also be broken. Christ is The Refiner.

    Mal.3 Verses 1 to 3


    1. [1] Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to this temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
      [2] But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
      [3] And he shall sit as a refiner and purifer of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
     
  12. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Luke 13:23 and then the gate will be shut.
     
  13. Aseyesee

    Aseyesee Well-Known Member

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    I don't know ... I can count pretty high!
     
  14. Aseyesee

    Aseyesee Well-Known Member

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    You a KJV only fellow?
     
  15. ronandcarol

    ronandcarol Member

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    Few Will Be Saved
    There are many, many people that go to church every week and think by doing this they will be in heaven......wrong! There are many people who think that they are a "good person" and will be in heaven.....? maybe not! We cannot measure ourselves by comparing to others or what others do. Jesus clearly says if you love me keep my commandments. It states in many places in the Bible that if we believe and have faith, we will be saved. In order to really believe and have faith, we have to follow His commandments which would cause us to follow Him more closely. Jesus said the most important commandment was to love your neighbor, love God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.
    ronandcarol
     
  16. Introverted1293

    Introverted1293 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That is why I do not consider myself saved. I will never consider myself saved until the day that I die, if I make it into heaven. Jesus said not everybody who calls him Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore I don't not trust the fact that I call him Lord to get me saved. I know that I have to turn away from sin. I cannot deny that. I do have some besetting sins myself that I need to turn away from. But I like what this poster has to say.

    I just don't want to be a shocked Christian who thought he was saved but wasn't.
     
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    While there is a slim chance that I may be mistaken, I believe you are not being consistent in what you say you believe. You quoted to me 1 John 1:8 in post #189 here when I said that the gospel does not make for an allowance for a little bit of sin. I remember you said before in other threads that a believer can overcome sin but you simply do not see overcoming any kind of sin is a part of salvation. But when you quote 1 John 1:8 to me, it leads me to think you take the OSAS interpretation that says we will always be in sin otherwise we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. Is this not how you understand this verse? What exactly is your interpretation on 1 John 1:8? How does your view on 1 John 1:8 line up with a believer overcoming sin?

    Overcoming sin is not possible for a believer who does not accept or believe the Scriptures true teaching on Soteriolgy. It does help to believe those Scriptures that teach we can overcome sin, but it is even just as equally important to understand that we are not telling people that they can sin and still be saved (Which is turning God's grace into a license for immorality that God cannot agree with - See Jude 1:4 NIV).

    This is what is deceptive about Eternal Security. It's proponents preach a double message. One message says you must live holy and the other message says you can sin and still be saved.

    You said here in another thread, I quote:

    "If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of that person and do not associate with him, so that he will be put to shame. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother." 2 Thessalonians 3:14-15

    There's a real world example. Note that he is still a brother even while he is in sin and even while he is being shunned by other believers. Quote by: ~ Marvin Knox.​

    No. You don't believe in working out your salvaiton. You believe in just... having a belief on Jesus for your salvation. You don't believe works of any kind is a part of the salvation process. So when Scripture says to you to work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12), you obviously take that to mean something else.

    Well, you have to keep reading to get my full point. I am saying that good works are a part of the salvation process. You said that we are not saved by works and it is soley on the basis of believing in Christ. Good works to you are not necessary for salvation. But the Bible teaches otherwise (Matthew 19:17, Titus 1:16, Hebrews 5:9, Hebrews 12:14).

    I am telling you this because before you implied or suggested that I did not trust in Jesus and His death and resurrection.

    No. You don't believe Sanctification is a part of the salvation process. You essentially said before in another thread and this one that we are saved solely on believing in Jesus Christ as our Savior. You said works are not a part of salvation. In fact, you believe that a believer can abide in sin and still be saved.

    Again, this is just not true on your part. For you believe that a saint can abide in sin and still be saved. What purpose does it serve to commit one's life to Christ and live holy and righteous if they can just sin and still be saved?

    I am telling this to you for your benefit in helping you to understand what I believe. Before you were suggesting that I was trying to save myself by my works. But I believe it is the Lord who works in the believer.

    But you preach a double message. You also say that a believer can abide in sin and still be saved. So what good is Sanctification or living out one's faith in holiness if one can just do evil and still be in God's good graces?

    But are you not undoing Christ's commands or giving less weight to them when you and other Eternal Security proponents say that a believer can abide in sin and still be saved?

    I don't believe that. For most folks have not even replied to me in regards to these verses. If they do believe these verses (amongst their silence), they must have an askewed meaning of Sanctification. For they must believe that Sanctification makes for an allowance for either a little bit of sin or a lot of sin. Either way, a person thinking they can sin and yet also be saved is turning God's grace into a license for immorality.

    Scripture teaches that serious sin is separation from God.

    Remember, it only took one sin by Adam to cause a separation between God and man. Why you think things have changed is beyond me. Do you think Adam was an unbeliever in God? No. He believed in God's existence but He did not believe His words or His command.

    Where? What verses?
    You didn't even reply to all of the verses I put forth.

    No. Most do not believe in Sinless Perfectionism. You are one of the few rare breeds in the Eternal Security camp that believes in it.

    So if a believer is enslaved to murder their whole lives, they won't be lost?
    If a believer is enslaved to abusing children their whole lives, they won't be lost?
    If a believer is enslaved to sleeping with prostitutes their whole lives, they won't be lost?
    They can be saved as long as they confess their sins and they generally lived holy in other areas of their life?

    You said believers can sin and still be saved in another thread here. You said, I quote:

    "This is an absolutely accurate and infallible recounting of an actual person and their sin and the Holy Spirit's opinion of it.

    It took place in a real place (Thessalonica) in the middle of the first century.

    An entire Christian congregation was well aware of this sin. The Apostle Paul was even well aware of this sin.

    The Holy Spirit commented on the sin and the way the church dealt with it. He also commented on the status of the person involved in the sin (even as he was still doing it).

    The Holy Spirit calls him a brother even as he is still sinning and totally unrepentant.

    This is a real world example of a real world man from a real world place.

    It simply doesn't get any more real world than this example.

    We are even blessed in this case with God's commentary on the subject of the eternal status of the man as he was in sin.

    If you won't accept this real world example it is only because of one reason IMO.

    Your doctrine is incorrect and you will not repent and cease teaching it.

    Repent Jason - the Kingdom of God is at hand." Quote by: ~ Marvin Knox.​

    Anyways, I do hope you see where I am coming from.
    May God's love shine upon you.

    Sincerely,

    ~ Jason.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
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  18. Introverted1293

    Introverted1293 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I have heard their term reprobate. I thought that was just a man-made term. Now I know that I was wrong. It is in the Bible.
     
  19. anna ~ grace

    anna ~ grace Newbie Supporter

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    An article, sobering and well-written, that asks and answers this very question. From a Catholic priest, and preacher.

    Sermon by St. Leonard of Port Maurice
     
  20. Neostarwcc

    Neostarwcc We are saved purely by the work and grace of God. Supporter

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    Thank you I will read that when I get some free time.
     
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