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Few will be saved?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Neostarwcc, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. anna ~ grace

    anna ~ grace Newbie Supporter

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    Cool, thank you!
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  2. he-man

    he-man he-man

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    Luke 13:25-27 anyone
    bad or evil will not be there
     
  3. lsume

    lsume Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Absolutely a KJV Christian. When one begins to receive the many Spiritual mysteries in God's Word, the KJV most closely reveals those mysteries which can only be understood by The Will of God The Father. It's hopeless to believe that anyone can share the truth of these mysteries and expect the recipient to understand them without The Will of God The Father.
     
  4. lsume

    lsume Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Outer darkness is the absence of the illuminating truth of Jesus The Christ.
     
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  5. lsume

    lsume Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Eph.4
    1. [30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
     
  6. Aseyesee

    Aseyesee Well-Known Member

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    Yet no man can number them ... not that many people have lived and died that a man cannot number them ...
     
  7. Aseyesee

    Aseyesee Well-Known Member

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    I find everything reveals these mysteries ...
     
  8. jimbohank

    jimbohank Disciple of Yashewah

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    Actually, Jesus was asked the question. He is speaking of the heart. We cannot read the heart of others, only God can. The deceivers will be those that cannot walk that narrow path because Jesus is that narrow path and if they don't have a sincere relationship with Him then where would they stand? There are many out there who have been deceived by the world to believe in a false Jesus, a Jesus who will accept anyone regardless of their wicked heart and lack of sincere repentance. Revelation chapter 3, when Jesus is speaking to the church of Laodicea is clear that those who are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, will be spit out of His mouth. It ultimately comes down to the individual's relationship with Him; is that person even "desiring" to have a relationship with Him or are they walking in the wicked world, assuming that they are saved because they once said a prayer, yet never desired to follow Him, allowing Him to refine them to reflect Him, and therefore feel they can live their life without any consideration to God's moral construct. Do they fall victim to the lie of "tolerance" that is being pushed more and more because they once heard or read that Jesus told us to love one another without truly understanding the context in which He said it.? Does that mean we accept the wicked moral compass of others without, in love, confronting that wicked moral compass? That we are to tolerate wickedness without drawing a line in the sand, without witnessing to those that have fallen or have never even been on that "narrow path"? It would be like allowing our children to play in a busy street because they "want" to, even though we know they would surely die. How is that represented in the "love" expressed by Jesus?...it's not! Jesus disciplines those He loves, and He does it to refine us, to remind us that we are falling off that narrow path and desires us to get back on the narrow path.The world is quickly creating a wider and wider divide between good and evil and those "lukewarm" people are going to have a harder and harder time figuring out what side of the "grey area" they are going to stand on if they don't wake up quickly!
     
  9. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

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    I do see exactly where you are coming from. It's crystal clear now.

    Your posts explain to me why you have taken this thread (which asks about only a few being saved) to a discussion of why OSAS is incorrect and dangerous and why it is necessary to believe in sinless perfectionism.

    From what you said - you believe that we as believers are in exactly the same condition that Adam was in in the garden. Nothing at all has changed since God became man, lived among us, overcame sin, gave His life for us, was resurrected and was seated on High at the right hand of the Father making intercession for the children His Father gave to Him.

    You believe that Jesus Christ did not bear the sins of the world once for all.

    You do not believe that we have been raised up and are seated with our Lord in glory.

    You do not believe that we are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise against the day of judgment.

    You do not even believe that Jesus is the author and perfecter of our faith. You do not believe that He is sinless in that He has kept and will continue to keep His promise to God to not lose any of the children God has given to Him, drawn to Him, and is now indwelling.

    You do not believe in salvation as I see it in the scriptures. Jesus is in your religion for sure. But, as they say in the vernacular, "close but no cigar".

    I know that we are not saved by having all of our doctrinal ducks in a row.

    But I fear that you are close to, if not over, the line which separates saving faith from a false gospel of keeping the law.

    I sincerely hope that you are not planning on telling the Lord about all of your overcoming works when or if He asks you why you should be allowed into His presence.

    I will continue to pray for you and I wish you the best of luck with your religion.
     
  10. bob96

    bob96 Bob

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    Matt 7:21-24 Talks about true and false disciples.

    Not everyone who calls themselves a Christian or a disciple is following God and putting his words into practice. Yes, faith requires action. Faith without deeds is dead. Just because you call to Jesus "Lord Lord" doesn't mean anything if the actions in your life don't match up.

    Matt 7
    21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

    The Wise and Foolish Builders

    24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

    James
    2:20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?
    2:26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
     
  11. Aseyesee

    Aseyesee Well-Known Member

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    It's really not sin that separates us, it is our soul, which when broken down as to how, is simply a thought.

    Jesus said one cannot add to themselves by thought ... which begs the question how one can take away from themselves by the same means ...
     
  12. Aseyesee

    Aseyesee Well-Known Member

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    A deed without faith is just as dead ... this faith works by love ... which is what the deed is born out of, whereas deeds do not give birth to faith ...
     
  13. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    What is the condition of having the seal of God?

    Scripture says, God the Father has set his seal upon those who labor for the meat that endures unto everlasting life.

    "Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed." (John 6:27).

    In fact, what is a guarantee?

    Guarantee receipts normally have conditions which you can normally read in the ”fine print”. If you get a guarantee receipt for a certain product and you would like to make a claim, the store might request that you bring both the product and the receipt with you before they are willing to look at your claim. They might also request that you do this within a certain time frame and that you state what’s wrong with the product. Another example could be if someone buys you a bus ticket which guarantees you to get to a certain city PROVIDED that 1) you don’t throw away your ticket, 2) that you embark the right bus on the right time, and 3) that you STAY ON the bus until it arrives at the city. The BUS will arrive at the city as promised, but the question is if YOU will choose to be among the bus passengers.

    1 Samuel 16:14
    But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

    Psalms 5:11
    Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me

    Again, circumcision was a ”seal” for those under the old covenant.

    Romans 4:11
    And he received the sign of circumcision, a SEAL of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also.

    This seal WAS broken and guaranteed nothing when those who were circumcised broke the covenant and were cut off from the people of God.

    Romans 2:25-27
    25 For circumcision verily profiteth, IF thou keep the law: but IF thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. 26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

    As you can see, this seal was conditioned on continued faith and obedience. The Holy Spirit marks us as God’s children of the new covenant but if we abandon the faith, and/or live in disobedience then the Spirit of God no longer remains in us and we are no longer sealed. Circumcised (sealed) jews were broken off through unbelief.

    Acts 5:32
    And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

    John 14:15-16
    15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever

    Romans 8:9-10
    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, IF so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And IF Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

    God speaks of the Israelites who ”grieved” His Holy Spirit in their rebellion. These Jews were cut off from the promise of entering God’s rest and they became God’s enemies.

    Isaiah 63:10
    But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: THEREFORE he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. —

    Isaiah 63:14
    As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.

    In the NT the ”rest” is the eternal rest that all believers will attain. The book of Hebrews continually speak of the promise of eternal rest, in combination with WARNINGS to believers not to miss out on this promised rest through hardening their hearts in unbelief, just as the Israelites did who rebelled against God during the Exodus (Read Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 10).
     
  14. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    Notice how you did not address what I actually said in my post. Instead, you seek to attack my faith and trust in God instead. I am very aware of the verses you quote and I do trust in those verses. I trust that the Lord is my Savior, and I believe I am sealed by the Holy Spirit, but this is in balance to the warnings given to us believers to endure until the end and to not be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. We are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. The promises in the Lord as one's Savior are only good to those who are faithful. John says,

    "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).
     
  15. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Inner darkness (of the soul) is likewise.
    and "When the eye is selfish, the whole body is full of darkness."
     
  16. OmpongIbarra

    OmpongIbarra Newbie

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    Few in a relative sense. Fewer compared to the number of people who chose and will choose otherwise.
     
  17. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul. Supporter

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    However, I thought you said before that you believed in overcoming sin? Did you change your position on this? It sounds like you are speaking negatively against such a position now.

    As for the narrow way: Matthew 7:14 is in context to Matthew 7:21 where Jesus says to a certain believer to depart from Him because this believer is working iniquity (sin) along with them doing wonderful works. Ezekiel 18:24 explains why Jesus said to this believer that He never knew them. For Ezekiel 18:24 says that if one does wickedness all their righteousness they did before will not be remembered. In addition, Matthew 7:26-27 adds further weight to the idea that Jesus desires believers to obey Him as a part of the narrow way in Matthew 7:14. In verses 26-27, Jesus says that if any man does not do what He says they are like a fool who built their house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. Jesus's point in Matthew 7 was not OSAS but it was about doing what Jesus says.

    Well, without Jesus going to the cross, even those in the Old Testament would have been doomed.
    However, God knows all things and He promised the Messiah before the creation.
    For the Lamb was slain since the foundation of the entire world (Revelation 13:8).
    Many things within the Old Testament points to Jesus and the sacrifice that He would make for us.
    There are the Messianic prophecies, the Typifications of Christ, and the Pre-Incarnate Appearances of Christ. The Scriptures testify of Jesus (John 5:39). Jesus is the source of a person's eternal life (1 John 5:12). For there is no other name under Heaven whereby men can be saved (Acts of the Apostles 4:12). Jesus was always the Savior for all men who would exist through out all time. Jesus saves in Justification, Sanctification, and Glorification. All glory, honor, and power goes unto Jesus.

    A part of how you recognize how Jesus is good is by His love for us.

    "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." (John 15:13).

    Love is just another way of talking about God's Eternal Moral Laws (See Romans 13:8-10).
    God's loving guidelines for man have always existed for man since His creation (and were always known by God before the foundation of the world).

    The Old Covenant was a temporary covenant with a different priesthood and different laws (i.e. different ceremonial laws and judicial (civil) laws). But God's goodness and love for how He wanted man to obey has never changed after Adam's fall. At the heart, God wants man to obey Him. Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). A lack of obedience to God (sin) is what separates man from God. This truth has not changed even though the covenants have changed and we are now under the New Covenant. The only way even the OT saints could be saved was by what Jesus (the Messiah) was going to do for them. But make no mistake. If Christ did not physically go to the cross, die for our sins, and raise from the dead three days later, and then ascend to enter the Holy Temple by His blood (So as to be our mediator between God the Father and man) then we would all be doomed.

    You are bearing false witness of me. Of course I believe Hebrews 10:10. I believed Jesus died for the sins of the entire world and accomplished this task one time. However, just because Jesus died for the sins of the entire world, does not mean everyone is saved. A person has to receive the free gift of salvation by faith and then continue to be responsible with that gift by faith. The gift of course is Jesus Christ (John 3:16) (2 Corinthians 9:15).

    Again, you bear false witness against me. Of course I believe Ephesians 2:6 for my life. I believe a faithful saint can have an assurance of knowing Jesus by keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3); And as a result, they would be the type of believer who can rest on the promises of being seated with Christ in Heavenly places with Him.

    Judas (who was one of the original twelve) was once a sheep sent among wolves.

    “These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying .... go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. ...Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves...” (Matthew 10:16).

    Yet, Judas fell by his transgression.

    “That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell “ (Acts of the Apostles 1:25).

    We see the 70 disciples return to Jesus.

    "And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name." (Luke 10:17).

    Jesus tells them to rejoice that their names are written in Heaven.

    "Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven." (Luke 10:20).

    Yet, we learn in John 6:66 (Which is not a good number), that they stopped following Jesus.

    "From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him." (John 6:66).

    John 10:27 says, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"

    They followed Jesus for a time, but then they stopped following Him. So they were sheep for a time. Their names were once written in Heaven, but at the point in time they stopped following Jesus, their names were then no longer written in Heaven anymore.

    I mean, how do you think a name can be blotted out of the Lamb's book of life if a believer is forever saved?

    Again, you bear false witness against me. Of course I believe Ephesians 1:13. However, one has to make sure that they have the seal according to Scripture, though. John 6:27 says that God the Father places His seal upon those who labor for the food that does not perish. Also, Abraham had been circumcised which was a seal of righteousness of faith (Note: Circumcision began with Abraham under the Old Covenant). But it was a seal at that time. At that time, if you were a breaker of the law, your circumcision was made uncircumcision (See Romans 2:25).

    Again, you bear false witness against me. Of course I believe Hebrews 12:2. I believe Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith. Jesus saves us in Justification, Sanctification, and in Glorification. But this is a cooperation with Jesus. Jesus does not force save anyone into the kingdom. A person chooses of their own free will to accept Jesus as their Savior and they also choose to continue in His good ways or not. But all good is done by the Lord through the believer. The believer merely chooses to cooperate with the Lord's plan of salvation (i.e. the gospel) and the good deeds He wants to work in their lives.

    Again, you bear false witness against me. Of course I believe Jesus is sinless (1 Peter 2:22) (2 Corinthians 5:21) (Hebrews 4:15).

    Jesus has no trouble keeping up with his sheep, he simply does not force save them against their own wills. Notice the word "should" in vese 39 within John 6,

    John 6:39 says,
    "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."

    For example: If I said to you that I "should" be over your house tomorrow, but I have a lot of work to do, you would not take that as a guaranteee that I was coming over to your home.

    I can say the same for you, but the real proof is: "What does Scripture say?"
    So far you have not addressed all of the verses I have brought forth.
    You also seemed to dodge my pointing out to you that you believe that a saint can abide in sin and still be saved (When you appeared to be denying that before).

    Again, you are confused about the Law. Please, the next time you read your Bible take note of every time the word "circumcision" appears near the word "law" referenced in the generic sense. Paul was not speaking about ALL Law. Paul was talking exclusively about the Law of Moses. This is why Paul said, "...what profit is there of circumcision?" (Romans 3:1). "I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2). Obviously circumcision is a part of the Old Testament Law and it is not a part of New Testament Law. So Paul was condemning believers in trying to go back to following the whole of the Old Law to be right with God. Paul was condemning the following of the ceremonial laws from the OT as a means of salvation. Paul did not condemn anyone for following God's Eternal Moral Laws as a part of the salvation process. Paul says in 1 Timothy 6:3-4 that if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, he is proud and knows nothing. James says that God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble (James 4:6). Obviously if somebody is preaching a sin and still be saved type belief, they are going against Godliness as taught in the Holy Scriptures.

    Not sure what Bible you are reading,

    But mine says,

    "His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." (Matthew 25:23).

    Why would you wish me luck for something you believe might be false?
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2017
  18. DarkSoul999

    DarkSoul999 Active Member

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    You understand that being unsaved means eternal agony right?

    If I was destined for damnation then I would much rather be deluded into thinking a better life was ahead of me.
     
  19. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    QUOTE="Introverted1293, post: 71840438, member: 400381"]That is why I do not consider myself saved. I will never consider myself saved until the day that I die, if I make it into heaven. Jesus said not everybody who calls him Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore I don't not trust the fact that I call him Lord to get me saved. I know that I have to turn away from sin. I cannot deny that. I do have some besetting sins myself that I need to turn away from. But I like what this poster has to say.

    I just don't want to be a shocked Christian who thought he was saved but wasn't.
    [/QUOTE
    Well, who would you choose to follow today, if given the choice: Jesus , or Satan ?
    (Today, on earth, in this life)
     
  20. Marvin Knox

    Marvin Knox Senior Veteran

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    :scratch:
     
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