Democrat Appellate Judge overturns half billion dollar fine

[DaisyDay]

The Trump University fraud and the Foundation fraud have all been legally taken care of.

They were committed which is the point; Trump committed them, to be less passive.

The NYS business fraud are completely and totally bogus.

Nope, they were also committed - there is a plethora of publicly available.

The only ones who don't believe those are bogus are probably only the left wing liberals.

And people who believe actual evidence. But such Republicans have largely been booted from the party.

But, for the sake of discussion. Let us assume that all of the progressive liberal attacks against President Trump are actually true.

All of them? Or only the proven ones?

What does that say about Kamala Harris and the leadership of the Democratic Party which was roundly rejected by the vast majority of the voters in 31 states in the 2024 election?

It means we live in a dystopian society where a criminal serial sex abuser grifter is selected to dismantle our democracy as per Project 2025.

 

[Yarddog]

Trump did not committ fraud. The banks were happy with the total repayment of the loans. Hopefully, the next level of appeals will completely reverse the lower court ruling of fraud.

NY appeals court throws out $500M penalty against Trump in Letitia James civil case

An appellate court has thrown out the nearly $500 million civil fraud penalty against former President Donald Trump in the high-profile case brought by New York Attorney General Letitia James.

www.foxnews.com

The court didn't say a crime didn't occur. It ruled that the fines for those crimes were excessive. They need to be lowered to match the crime.

 

[ozso]

In what court?

There are at least four. The Appellate Division, First Department. The New York Court of Appeals. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit. The U.S. Supreme Court.

 

[ozso]

The court didn't say a crime didn't occur. It ruled that the fines for those crimes were excessive. They need to be lowered to match the crime.

Were they lowered or removed?

 

[Yarddog]

The progressive left wing liberal judge said he committed fraud. This is yet another example of the weaponization of lawfare during the years of the Biden administration.

No. Weaponization of lawfare is what Trump is doing now. He has directed his DOJ or others to find something that they can charge Trump's enemies with.

This is unlike what has happened to Trump. He was investigated for a possible crime. Some of those failed to find enough evidence while others found crimes did occur.

 

[Yarddog]

Were they lowered or removed?

They have been removed but the lower court can place more appropriate fines, which it probably will not do until the appeal process has run it's course.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The court didn't say a crime didn't occur. It ruled that the fines for those crimes were excessive. They need to be lowered to match the crime.

WHY were they EXCESSIVE in the first place?? Hmmm...???

 

[A2SG]

WHY were they EXCESSIVE in the first place?? Hmmm...???

I already gave you the answer to that. I provided a link to the decision, which details how the disgorgement was determined.

Since I'm such a nice guy, I'll even provide the link again. You might want to consider reading it, if you actually want to know this stuff.

https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/decisions/trump-decision.pdf

-- A2SG, leading you to water, the next step is up to you....

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I already gave you the answer to that. I provided a link to the decision, which details how the disgorgement was determined.

Since I'm such a nice guy, I'll even provide the link again. You might want to consider reading it, if you actually want to know this stuff.

https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/decisions/trump-decision.pdf

-- A2SG, leading you to water, the next step is up to you....

Again, not the point. If that is std procedure, WHY was it deemed EXCESSIVE later AND against the Constitution??
Arthur F. Engoron, Justice...After presiding over a non-jury trial. That answers the question...

 

[A2SG]

Again, not the point.

You asked why the disgorgement was excessive, I provided the information as to how it was determined. Basically, disgorgements are based on the amount the defendant made through their illegal or fraudulent activity. So the amount is high because Trump and his organization made that much money by committing fraud.

If that is std procedure, WHY was it deemed EXCESSIVE later AND against the Constitution??

You'd have to ask the appeals court, they made that determination. It sounds to me like the appeals court decided Trump should not be penalized for committing fraud to such a massive degree, but I'm not a lawyer so maybe I missed something.

But what they didn't say was anything about Trump's guilty verdict. That remains, regardless of the fine imposed.

-- A2SG, lest we forget....

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

You asked why the disgorgement was excessive, I provided the information as to how it was determined. Basically, disgorgements are based on the amount the defendant made through their illegal or fraudulent activity. So the amount is high because Trump and his organization made that much money by committing fraud.

But what they didn't say was anything about Trump's guilty verdict. That remains, regardless of the fine imposed.

And yet it was deemed EXCESSIVE. Well no one thought the judgement would be erased so verdict might be reversed on appeal too...

 

[A2SG]

And yet it was deemed EXCESSIVE.

Yes, it was. So Trump gets to keep his ill gotten gains from committing fraud.

Yay?

Well no one thought the judgement would be erased so verdict might be reversed on appeal too...

Doesn't seem likely, but keep on keepin' on, dude.

-- A2SG, someone has to stand up and defend rich white guys who commit massive fraud, I guess....

 

[DaisyDay]

And yet it was deemed EXCESSIVE. Well no one thought the judgement would be erased so verdict might be reversed on appeal too...

No one thought the judgement would be erased but nearly everyone thought it would be reduced which is pretty standard. Trump made verified false statements, i.e. fraud. Why should that be dismissed?

 

[Vambram]

No one thought the judgement would be erased but nearly everyone thought it would be reduced which is pretty standard. Trump made verified false statements, i.e. fraud. Why should that be dismissed?

What verified false statements did Trump make in that case?

 

[DaisyDay]

What verified false statements did Trump make in that case?

How about the size of his Manhattan apartment? The conservation status of Mar-a-Lago that prevents further development and prohibits subdivision. The rent-controlled status of tenants in NYC (he claimed market value rents). Those are just off the top of my head - you can look up the details of the case at any time you please.

 

[Vambram]

How about the size of his Manhattan apartment? The conservation status of Mar-a-Lago that prevents further development and prohibits subdivision. The rent-controlled status of tenants in NYC (he claimed market value rents). Those are just off the top of my head - you can look up the details of the case at any time you please.

None of those statements bothered the banks and the loans were fully paid off on time. There was no fraud and those banks have said in court that they would gladly do business with Trump again. There was no fraud.

 

[A2SG]

None of those statements bothered the banks and the loans were fully paid off on time. There was no fraud and those banks have said in court that they would gladly do business with Trump again. There was no fraud.

Your personal interpretation of the law seems to be incorrect. I suggest you read the full decision, it explains, in detail, exactly how the law applies:

https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/decisions/trump-decision.pdf

-- A2SG, this way, you don't have to depend on my layman's opinion on the matter, you can go right to the source....

 

[Vambram]

Your personal interpretation of the law seems to be incorrect. I suggest you read the full decision, it explains, in detail, exactly how the law applies:

https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/decisions/trump-decision.pdf

-- A2SG, this way, you don't have to depend on my layman's opinion on the matter, you can go right to the source....

The decision was made by progressive left wing liberal. That judge's decision is wrong.

 

[A2SG]

The decision was made by progressive left wing liberal. That judge's decision is wrong.

The appeals court doesn't seem to have any problem with his decision. They only dismissed the fine, they did not dismiss the verdict.

-- A2SG, perhaps, just perhaps, your personal opinion, as a layman, may not be as based on the actual details of NY state financial law as you may think....

 

[Vambram]

The appeals court doesn't seem to have any problem with his decision. They only dismissed the fine, they did not dismiss the verdict.

-- A2SG, perhaps, just perhaps, your personal opinion, as a layman, may not be as based on the actual details of NY state financial law as you may think....

If this case were to go to a completely unbiased court, it will be overruled. No fraud was committed. The banks were not a victim of fraud and the loans with interest were paid off on time. Apparently, only liberals might believe that is fraud.