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Spiritual Jew

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That`s right, that scripture is when the Lord comes in power and great glory and sorts out the `Sheep and Goat Nations.` The `one taken and one left` reveal that wherever the person is they will be judged.
I already touched on this in a previous post I just made, but please think more carefully about what you're saying here and read Matthew 25:31-46 carefully. What you are saying here then is that all people from an entire nation, even if some of them are Christians (!!!) will be cast into "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" for "everlasting punishment". How can this be? It can't. It is a judgment of individuals, not nations. It is a depiction of judgment day and there is only one judgment day.
 
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Marilyn C

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The sheep are not nations, they are individual believers.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another
, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world...41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels...46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

First of all, the word "nations" there is translated from the Greek "ethnos" which has several definitions including "mankind" or "people". The word "nations" was a poor choice. It should say all people.

Tell me, will entire nations inherit "life eternal" in "the kingdom prepared for" them "from the foundation of the world"? Is eternal life and a kingdom promised to entire nations? Where does scripture teach such a thing? Nowhere. So, why would you think that is what Jesus was saying here? Do people have to be lucky enough to be part of a sheep nation in order to inherit "life eternal" in the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world? No, of course not. That would be ridiculous. No, the sheep are individual believers who belong to Christ. It is individuals who inherit eternal life, not nations.

Will entire nations be cast "into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels" for "everlasting punishment"? Which would mean you have to hope to be lucky enough to not be in one of those nations? No, of course not. That is where individual unbelievers will go (Revelation 20:15).
Probably better to read what I actually wrote -

That`s right, that scripture is when the Lord comes in power and great glory and sorts out the `Sheep and Goat Nations.` The `one taken and one left` reveal that wherever the person is they will be judged.
 
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Marilyn C

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I already touched on this in a previous post I just made, but please think more carefully about what you're saying here and read Matthew 25:31-46 carefully. What you are saying here then is that all people from an entire nation, even if some of them are Christians (!!!) will be cast into "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" for "everlasting punishment". How can this be? It can't. It is a judgment of individuals, not nations. It is a depiction of judgment day and there is only one judgment day.
Christians are NOT in the trib, and the `ethnos` individuals ON the earth, (not in the graves) will be judged on how they treated the Lord`s brethren - Israel.
 
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Marilyn C

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The only thing Peter indicated about that supposed "period of time" is that the heavens and earth would be burned up during that time. So, how can you think of that as a long period of time? It doesn't fit the context of what Peter said.
We need to take in ALL of God`s word. God has appointed 3 Days - period of times - the Day of Christ, the Day of the Lord and the Day of God. In Hebrew and Greek the word `Day` is a period of time and a specific Day depending on the context.
 
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eclipsenow

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You both are believing nonsense. For absolute certainty, you are believing things that are not taught in scripture anywhere.


This is utter nonsense. How do you have the gall to call someone else's belief nonsense and then proceed to say something that is far more nonsensical than what she said?

Scripture says that Jesus descended from the people who you think are just myths.

Luke 3:23 Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24 the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melki, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph..........33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Ram,[e] the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, 36 the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalalel, the son of Kenan, 38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

Do you see all the people who I put in bold there? All of them are mentioned in the book of Genesis, which you ridiculously and falsely say "is a creative myth" and "not meant to be read literally". If that was the case, then Jesus Himself would also be a myth since it would mean He descended from mythical people. Therefore, I can't take your claim seriously and, honestly, it's quite disappointing that you believe such nonsense.
Early Genesis - as in 1 to 11 - has various genres of writing.
Genesis 1 and 2 contradict each other in the steps of creation if read literally.
After 11, Genesis reads more like a history.
So at some point we reach actual descendants of Adam and Eve - but Genesis 1 2 and 3 are not 'literal'. It's just not the genre used.

But - like so much of the bible - just because the genre isn't literal does not mean it is not true!
Jesus said we should be born again.
Is that meaningless because it is not literally true?


Reading Genesis is more like reading Shakespeare than an engineering manual or literal history. There’s a false antagonism here. We don’t have a bad reaction to Shakespeare's metaphors in the line - "But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the east, and Juliet is the sun!"

We don’t turn around and complain "What nonsense! There's no way any truth is being conveyed in this nonsense because Juliet is obviously not a giant ball of fusing hydrogen millions and millions of miles across!" That would be ridiculous. That would be misunderstanding the genre of the text, reading the poetic as literal. Sometimes poetry is the *best* genre to explain certain truths, like love or dramatic theology!

Dr John Dickson - with a Phd in history as well as degrees in theology - unpacks Genesis:

---

"In Genesis 1, multiples of seven appear in extraordinary ways. For ancient readers, who were accustomed to taking notice of such things, these multiples of seven conveyed a powerful message. Seven was the divine number, the number of goodness and perfection. Its omnipresence in the opening chapter of the Bible makes an unmistakable point about the origin and nature of the universe itself. Consider the following:
The first sentence of Genesis 1 consists of seven Hebrew words. Instantly, the ancient reader’s attention is focused;

The second sentence contains exactly fourteen words. A pattern is developing;

The word ‘earth’—one half of the created sphere—appears in the chapter 21 times;

The word ‘heaven’—the other half of the created sphere—also appears 21 times.

‘God’, the lead actor, is mentioned exactly 35 times.

The refrain ‘and it was so,’ which concludes each creative act, occurs exactly seven times;

The summary statement ‘God saw that it was good’ also occurs seven times;

It hardly needs to be pointed out that the whole account is structured around seven scenes or seven days of the week.

The artistry of the chapter is stunning and, to ancient readers, unmistakable. It casts the creation as a work of art, sharing in the perfection of God and deriving from him. My point is obvious: short of including a prescript for the benefit of modern readers the original author could hardly have made it clearer that his message is being conveyed through literary rather than prosaic means. What we find in Genesis 1 is not exactly poetry of the type we find in the biblical book of Psalms but nor is it recognizable as simple prose. It is a rhythmic, symbolically-charged inventory of divine commands."
More at his podcast.
 
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Truth7t7

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What makes you think that "there will still be people on the earth after "one is taken and one left"? After every person is either taken or left, in other words? That is not what Jesus taught.

People need to remember that there is more to what Jesus taught about these things than just what is written in Matthew 24. Both Mark 13 and Luke 21 have further insights into His Olivet Discourse that are not found in Matthew 24. And there are also passages like the following where Jesus talked about things that He also talked about in the Olivet Discourse.

Luke 17:32 32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [36] [e] 37 “Where, Lord?” they asked. He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”

Notice what Jesus indicates will happen to those who are left behind and not taken. They will be dead. Killed. Feasted on by the vultures. So, with this in mind, what people exactly will supposedly still be on the earth after "one taken and one left"?
Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
 
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Truth7t7

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Probably better to read what I actually wrote -

That`s right, that scripture is when the Lord comes in power and great glory and sorts out the `Sheep and Goat Nations.` The `one taken and one left` reveal that wherever the person is they will be judged.
Marilyn the sheep/goat judgement is nothing more than a "parable" being spoken to herdsmen of the second coming and final judgement, it's that simple

Marilyn you will closely note verse (46) below, there are two places of judgement "Everlasting Punishment" & "Eternal Life" this represents (The End) eternity begins, there isn't a 1,000 year millennial kingdom on this earth seen as you suggest, will you continue to teach otherwise?

Matthew 25:31-34 & 46KJV
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Probably better to read what I actually wrote -

That`s right, that scripture is when the Lord comes in power and great glory and sorts out the `Sheep and Goat Nations.` The `one taken and one left` reveal that wherever the person is they will be judged.
That is not what Matthew 25:31-46 says. That indicates that all the sheep will be put together on Jesus's right and all the goats will be put together on His left and then judged. Not, "wherever the person is".

Who are the sheep? Whoever will inherit "life eternal" in the eternal kingdom when Jesus returns, which will be all of those who belong to Him. Without exception. No one who has put their faith in Christ and is destined for eternal life (John 3:16) will miss out on inheriting the eternal kingdom when Jesus comes.

The one taken and one left is not what Matthew 25:31-46 is referring to. The ones who are left will be physically killed and Matthew 25:31-46 has nothing to do with anyone being physically killed. That passage is portraying the judgment that will happen just after one is taken and the other is left and killed

Luke 17:32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [36] [e] 37 “Where, Lord?” they asked. He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Christians are NOT in the trib
Why not? Keeping in mind scripture like this...

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

, and the `ethnos` individuals ON the earth, (not in the graves) will be judged on how they treated the Lord`s brethren - Israel.
You are not using scripture to interpret scripture.

Matthew 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Did Jesus say His brethren are Israel? No. Why are you saying that? Don't you want to learn from Jesus? Jesus said His brethren including "his disciples" and "whoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven". Matthew 25:31-46 should be interpreted accordingly.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Early Genesis - as in 1 to 11 - has various genres of writing.
Genesis 1 and 2 contradict each other in the steps of creation if read literally.
No, they do not. You are believing utter nonsense. Tell me, do you believe all of Genesis chapters 1 to 11 is myth? If not, how do you determine what is myth and what isn't and which parts of it do you think are myth?

After 11, Genesis reads more like a history.
As do chapters 1 through 11.

So at some point we reach actual descendants of Adam and Eve - but Genesis 1 2 and 3 are not 'literal'. It's just not the genre used.
Yes, it is.

But - like so much of the bible - just because the genre isn't literal does not mean it is not true!
Jesus said we should be born again.
Is that meaningless because it is not literally true?


Reading Genesis is more like reading Shakespeare than an engineering manual or literal history. There’s a false antagonism here. We don’t have a bad reaction to Shakespeare's metaphors in the line - "But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the east, and Juliet is the sun!"

We don’t turn around and complain "What nonsense! There's no way any truth is being conveyed in this nonsense because Juliet is obviously not a giant ball of fusing hydrogen millions and millions of miles across!" That would be ridiculous. That would be misunderstanding the genre of the text, reading the poetic as literal. Sometimes poetry is the *best* genre to explain certain truths, like love or dramatic theology!
I, of course, am not saying non-literal text is nonsense in and of itself. I'm saying that claiming Genesis 1-11 is just myth and not historical is nonsense because it is. 100%. You have NOTHING to prove otherwise. I guarantee that.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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We need to take in ALL of God`s word. God has appointed 3 Days - period of times - the Day of Christ, the Day of the Lord and the Day of God. In Hebrew and Greek the word `Day` is a period of time and a specific Day depending on the context.
You are avoiding the point. What Peter says occurs on the day of the Lord is the burning up of the heavens and the earth. He indicates that happens upon the arrival of the day of the Lord. So, however long it takes to burn up the heavens and the earth will be the duration of the day of the Lord, which is also called "the day of Christ" and "the day of God". Trying to make those terms mean different things is complete nonsense and there is no basis for that whatsoever.
 
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Marilyn C

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Marilyn the sheep/goat judgement is nothing more than a "parable" being spoken to herdsmen of the second coming and final judgement, it's that simple

Marilyn you will closely note verse (46) below, there are two places of judgement "Everlasting Punishment" & "Eternal Life" this represents (The End) eternity begins, there isn't a 1,000 year millennial kingdom on this earth seen as you suggest, will you continue to teach otherwise?

Matthew 25:31-34 & 46KJV
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
That is the final end of the `goat` nations. Scripture often jumps over intervening time.
 
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Marilyn C

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That is not what Matthew 25:31-46 says. That indicates that all the sheep will be put together on Jesus's right and all the goats will be put together on His left and then judged. Not, "wherever the person is".

Who are the sheep? Whoever will inherit "life eternal" in the eternal kingdom when Jesus returns, which will be all of those who belong to Him. Without exception. No one who has put their faith in Christ and is destined for eternal life (John 3:16) will miss out on inheriting the eternal kingdom when Jesus comes.

The one taken and one left is not what Matthew 25:31-46 is referring to. The ones who are left will be physically killed and Matthew 25:31-46 has nothing to do with anyone being physically killed. That passage is portraying the judgment that will happen just after one is taken and the other is left and killed

Luke 17:32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.” [36] [e] 37 “Where, Lord?” they asked. He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”
The Lord is not going to have all the nations of the world gathered together on the plain outside Jerusalem. it is a picture to show us the Lord dividing who looked after His brethren the Jews in the trib.
 
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Marilyn C

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Why not? Keeping in mind scripture like this...

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.


You are not using scripture to interpret scripture.

Matthew 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Did Jesus say His brethren are Israel? No. Why are you saying that? Don't you want to learn from Jesus? Jesus said His brethren including "his disciples" and "whoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven". Matthew 25:31-46 should be interpreted accordingly.
The will of the Lord during the trib, is for people to look after his brethren the Jews.
 
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Marilyn C

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You are avoiding the point. What Peter says occurs on the day of the Lord is the burning up of the heavens and the earth. He indicates that happens upon the arrival of the day of the Lord. So, however long it takes to burn up the heavens and the earth will be the duration of the day of the Lord, which is also called "the day of Christ" and "the day of God". Trying to make those terms mean different things is complete nonsense and there is no basis for that whatsoever.
When the Lord comes to the mount of Olives, the mount splits and water gushes out. (Zech. 14: 4 & 8, Ez. 47: 12) That cleanses the polluted waters and seas. It also provides water for trees along its banks. Then after the Lord has dealt with the world`s armies, (Zech. 14: 12) He goes over to Jerusalem and reveals Himself to the Jews. They go into mourning with their families. (Zech. 12: 9 - 14)

Then the Lord appoints a regent king ( Jer. 30: 9) and some priests. These priests will be from those that people have brought back to Jerusalem on horses, camels, chariots, litters, etc. (Isa. 66: 20 & 21) Civilization as we know it would have been destroyed in the great earthquake before the Lord returns. (Rev. 16: 17 - 21, 6: 12)

Then finally Israel can celebrate the fulfillment of the Feast of Purim on the 15th of Adar, their national celebration of deliverance from all their enemies. (Esther 9: 21)

I don`t see that happening in one day!!!!!
 
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Spiritual Jew

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The will of the Lord during the trib, is for people to look after his brethren the Jews.
Okay, just keep ignoring how scripture defines His brethren and go with your own definition instead then if that's what you want to do. As long as you continue to be closed-minded, you will continue to believe false doctrine.

Matthew 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Being among the brethren of Christ has nothing to do with one's ethnicity or religion, but rather has to do with being among those who obey God and follow Christ. You and I are among His brethren, according to scripture.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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When the Lord comes to the mount of Olives, the mount splits and water gushes out. (Zech. 14: 4 & 8, Ez. 47: 12) That cleanses the polluted waters and seas. It also provides water for trees along its banks. Then after the Lord has dealt with the world`s armies, (Zech. 14: 12) He goes over to Jerusalem and reveals Himself to the Jews. They go into mourning with their families. (Zech. 12: 9 - 14)

Then the Lord appoints a regent king ( Jer. 30: 9) and some priests. These priests will be from those that people have brought back to Jerusalem on horses, camels, chariots, litters, etc. (Isa. 66: 20 & 21) Civilization as we know it would have been destroyed in the great earthquake before the Lord returns. (Rev. 16: 17 - 21, 6: 12)

Then finally Israel can celebrate the fulfillment of the Feast of Purim on the 15th of Adar, their national celebration of deliverance from all their enemies. (Esther 9: 21)

I don`t see that happening in one day!!!!!
Apparently, Peter knew nothing about this since he taught something that does not line up with what you're saying. Do you not know that the New Testament shines light on the Old Testament prophecies? We should trust the NT authors' understanding of the OT over our own.
 
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Truth7t7

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Being among the brethren of Christ has nothing to do with one's ethnicity or religion, but rather has to do with being among those who obey God and follow Christ. You and I are among His brethren, according to scripture.
I Agree 100%

How do you know if the poster is sealed by the Holy Spirit, you really don't
 
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Marilyn C

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Okay, just keep ignoring how scripture defines His brethren and go with your own definition instead then if that's what you want to do. As long as you continue to be closed-minded, you will continue to believe false doctrine.

Matthew 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Being among the brethren of Christ has nothing to do with one's ethnicity or religion, but rather has to do with being among those who obey God and follow Christ. You and I are among His brethren, according to scripture.
And that is what the `Sheep` people were doing.
 
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Marilyn C

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Apparently, Peter knew nothing about this since he taught something that does not line up with what you're saying. Do you not know that the New Testament shines light on the Old Testament prophecies? We should trust the NT authors' understanding of the OT over our own.
Peter only knew about Israel and the Lord being their Messiah and His coming again to set up Israel as ruler of the nations.

`Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom (rule) to Israel?` (Acts 1: 6)
 
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