Date of Christ's Crucifixation

[Filippus]

My fourth reason for the AD30 date is Jesus' age.

View attachment 311875

In addition to the above timelines, a major difficulty for the AD 33 date theory is the age of Jesus when he got baptised. Luke 3:23 tells us he was "about thirty years old." (It was customary for Levites to begin their ministry at thirty.)

Now, it is a fact that Jesus was born before BC 4 because that was the year King Herod died not long after he had attempted to murder Mary’s child. So Jesus would have been born BC 5 making him about thirty at the time of his baptism just as Luke said.

Proponents of later crucifixion dates find themselves having to do a generous stretch on Luke’s word, 'about.' Does 'about thirty' mean thirty-four? Did he die 3½ years later at age thirty-eight? The answer is no! Jesus was about thirty when he got baptised.

I agree with this, specifically if our unit of measure is years.

If we consider months.For example, let’s say His ministry starts on the 1st of Tishri 26 AD, it places His 30th birthday after ± 1 Sept 26AD and not later than Passover 27 AD.

Which satisfies Luke’s requirement of being almost 30 years old at His start. And also, a birth as late as 4 BC.

What is clear though, is that His ministry started in 26 AD. Supported by Daniel 9 and Luke 3.

Considering the festival days placement on the week only gives us two options, 30 AD and 33 AD.

The latter too far to be supported by scripture, leaving 30 AD as the only viable option.

Furthermore, the year 30 AD crucifixion is further indirectly supported by the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Suggesting any other date leaves us with a period to the destruction which is not found in Scripture.

Shalom

 

[Christian Gedge]

Furthermore, the year 30 AD crucifixion is further indirectly supported by the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Suggesting any other date leaves us with a period to the destruction which is not found in Scripture.

Yes, and it is confirmed in the writing of Eusebius who notes the destruction of the temple happening 40 years after Jesus death. I guess you already have that?

 

[visionary]

My confusion does rest on the fact that the Gregorian calendar was changed. I'm looking at the years 28 AD, 30 AD, and 31 AD. If I could figure which day of the week Passover fell on in each year, I think I'd get a clearer picture, however, calendars seem to differ depending on sites.

I agree with this, specifically if our unit of measure is years.

If we consider months.For example, let’s say His ministry starts on the 1st of Tishri 26 AD, it places His 30th birthday after ± 1 Sept 26AD and not later than Passover 27 AD.

Which satisfies Luke’s requirement of being almost 30 years old at His start. And also, a birth as late as 4 BC.

What is clear though, is that His ministry started in 26 AD. Supported by Daniel 9 and Luke 3.

Considering the festival days placement on the week only gives us two options, 30 AD and 33 AD.

The latter too far to be supported by scripture, leaving 30 AD as the only viable option.

Furthermore, the year 30 AD crucifixion is further indirectly supported by the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Suggesting any other date leaves us with a period to the destruction which is not found in Scripture.

Shalom

I found this, Jewish Calendar 27 Diaspora | Hebcal

 

[visionary]

I agree with this, specifically if our unit of measure is years.

If we consider months.For example, let’s say His ministry starts on the 1st of Tishri 26 AD, it places His 30th birthday after ± 1 Sept 26AD and not later than Passover 27 AD.

Which satisfies Luke’s requirement of being almost 30 years old at His start. And also, a birth as late as 4 BC.

What is clear though, is that His ministry started in 26 AD. Supported by Daniel 9 and Luke 3.

Considering the festival days placement on the week only gives us two options, 30 AD and 33 AD.

The latter too far to be supported by scripture, leaving 30 AD as the only viable option.

Furthermore, the year 30 AD crucifixion is further indirectly supported by the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. Suggesting any other date leaves us with a period to the destruction which is not found in Scripture.

Shalom

and this, using the same website.. Jewish Calendar 30 Diaspora | Hebcal

 

[Benjamin Müller]

I found this, Jewish Calendar 27 Diaspora | Hebcal

Yes. The calendar you provided still offers another day of the week for Passover. It's difficult to pin down the exact day it would have occurred 2000 years ago. We know astronomically through NASA when the full moon was, but what day of the week that day occurred seems to vary from calendar to calendar.

If Passover was a month late in 28 AD, as I suspect it was from my understanding of the Jewish calendar, then that calendar you linked would put Passover on Wed. evening - Thursday evening which I believe would be the correct date.

 

[Humble Penny]

Don't forget to count backwards 69 Weeks/483 Years. Daniel tells us the Messiah will die after this period of time from when the decree to restore Jerusalem and the Temple was given.

 

[Benjamin Müller]

Don't forget to count backwards 69 Weeks/483 Years. Daniel tells us the Messiah will die after this period of time from when the decree to restore Jerusalem and the Temple was given.

I have. It would align with Artaxerxes in 457 BC. I know you disagree with Artaxerxes and have a thread citing you believe Cyrus to have fulfilled the decree, but I will have to politely agree to disagree for the time being. It appears to me that the Cyrus who makes the decree is a future leader and the prophesy revolves around the 3rd temple. If my assumptions are correct and that Cyrus is part of end-time prophesy, that still can't be proven until end-times.

 

[Humble Penny]

I have. It would align with Artaxerxes in 457 BC. I know you disagree with Artaxerxes and have a thread citing you believe Cyrus to have fulfilled the decree, but I will have to politely agree to disagree for the time being. It appears to me that the Cyrus who makes the decree is a future leader and the prophesy revolves around the 3rd temple. If my assumptions are correct and that Cyrus is part of end-time prophesy, that still can't be proven until end-times.

Have you considered that Artaxerxes I couldn't be the one to begin our count from since the Second Temple was completed before him in the 6th Year of Darius? If you look at the two decrees of Artaxerxes I in Ezra 7 and Nehemiah 2 he only gives permission to the Jews to rebuild Jerusalem, not the Temple.

 

[Benjamin Müller]

Have you considered that Artaxerxes I couldn't be the one to begin our count from since the Second Temple was completed before him in the 6th Year of Darius? If you look at the two decrees of Artaxerxes I in Ezra 7 and Nehemiah 2 he only gives permission to the Jews to rebuild Jerusalem, not the Temple.

Cyrus gives permission to rebuild the temple, but doesn't specify rebuilding Jerusalem, the streets and the walls. Which may be why in Ezra 4 a letter was sent to halt the rebuilding of the city. Later Ezra 5, the question is brought forth, "Who gave you permission to rebuild the temple", to which they say Cyrus. But the rebuilding of the city was not authorized.

Ezra 1:1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,

Cyrus fulfilled the prophesy spoken of by Jeremiah not Daniel.

Like I said, I don't think the Cyrus prophesy was for the 2nd temple, but the coming 3rd temple.

So, I politely agree to disagree on this point.

 

[Humble Penny]

Cyrus gives permission to rebuild the temple, but doesn't specify rebuilding Jerusalem, the streets and the walls. Which may be why in Ezra 4 a letter was sent to halt the rebuilding of the city. Later Ezra 5, the question is brought forth, "Who gave you permission to rebuild the temple", to which they say Cyrus. But the rebuilding of the city was not authorized.

Ezra 1:1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,

Cyrus fulfilled the prophesy spoken of by Jeremiah not Daniel.

Like I said, I don't think the Cyrus prophesy was for the 2nd temple, but the coming 3rd temple.

So, I politely agree to disagree on this point.

Well can the Jews restore Jerusalem without the Temple being there? Prior to David conquering the Jebusites and renaming their city Jerusalem, it was actually called the city of Jebus (1 Chronicles 11:4-9). Clearly the angel Gabriel couldn't be telling Daniel that the Jews would restore Jerusalem to it's original state before David conquered it: that would mean you can only do so by rebuilding the Temple first.

There are only 4 Persian kings explicitly mentioned by Scripture who ruled after the Jews were freed from Babylon and only 3 out 4 Persian kings gave out royal decrees for the Jews to construct the Temple and Jerusalem.

And if we take the traditional date of -586 BC for the destruction of the 1st Temple and reconcile it with Scripture, this means Cyrus would've begun his 1st Year in -516 BC and given his decree to rebuild the Temple at that time. So if we compare the reigns of Cyrus and Artaxerxes I we get some eye opening results:

Traditional Date (ruled from -559 BC to -530 BC)
Cyrus the Great to Christ's Death
-559 BC + 483 Years = -76 BC

Traditional Date (ruled from -465 BC to -424 BC)
Artaxerxes I to Christ's Death
-465 BC + 483 Years = 18 AD

From the death of Cyrus the Great to the 1st Year of Artaxerxes I are 65 Years. And we see that both dates give an incorrect date for the death of Christ. Let's now look at what happens when we reconcile the reign of Cyrus with Scripture so his 1st Year occurs after he frees the Jews from Babylon:

Corrected Traditional Date (ruled from -516 BC to -487 BC)
Cyrus the Great to Christ's Death
-516 BC + 483 Years = -33 BC

Corrected Traditional Date (ruled from -422 BC to -381 BC)
Artaxerxes I to Christ's Death
-422 BC + 483 Years = 61 AD

These numbers alone should tell you that the traditional dates given are incorrect. And this should raise suspicion as to why they perfectly mask up the death of Christ.

But of course if we use the 20th Year of Artaxerxes I in Nehemiah 2 we still get incorrect dates:

Traditional Date (ruled from -465 BC to -424 BC)
Artaxerxes I to Christ's Death
-445 BC + 483 Years = 38 AD

Corrected Traditional Date (ruled from -422 BC to -401 BC)
Artaxerxes I 20th Year to Christ's Death
-402 BC + 483 Years = 81 AD

 

[Filippus]

and this, using the same website.. Jewish Calendar 30 Diaspora | Hebcal

A simple test can identify if the proposed dates are correct. The calendar being synchronized to the lunar cycle, means the full moon always falls between the 14th and 15th.

 

[Christian Gedge]

and this, using the same website.. Jewish Calendar 30 Diaspora | Hebcal

Yes. The calendar you provided still offers another day of the week for Passover. It's difficult to pin down the exact day it would have occurred 2000 years ago.

An interesting calendar for sure. But note: In the top corner is the warning proviso that Gregorian dates are shown. However, at the time of the crucifixion the Julian calendar was in force. That is why biblical dates are usually expressed according to the Julian.

So, when the dates shown are adjusted to the Julian, the disciples Passover meal (Erev Pesach) should read Thursday 6th April, and Jesus' crucifixion, 7th April AD30.

 

[Filippus]

I have. It would align with Artaxerxes in 457 BC. I know you disagree with Artaxerxes and have a thread citing you believe Cyrus to have fulfilled the decree, but I will have to politely agree to disagree for the time being. It appears to me that the Cyrus who makes the decree is a future leader and the prophesy revolves around the 3rd temple. If my assumptions are correct and that Cyrus is part of end-time prophesy, that still can't be proven until end-times.

I agree.

We have three decrees issued.

According to the closing verses of the second book of Chronicles and the books of Ezra and Nehemiah, when the Jewish exiles returned to Jerusalem following a decree from Cyrus the Great (Ezra 1:1–4, 2 Chron 36:22–23), construction started at the original site of the altar of Solomon's Temple.[1]

After a relatively brief halt due to opposition from peoples who had filled the vacuum during the Jewish captivity (Ezra 4), work resumed c. 521 BCE under Darius I, 2nd decree (Ezra 5:13; 6:1-4) and was completed during the sixth year of his reign (c. 516 BCE), with the temple dedication taking place the following year.

The final Decree was given in (Esra 7:7-8) and it is THIS decree which is referenced in Daniel 9:24-25, TO RESTORE Jerusalem. In fact we are given in verse 25, 7 shmita's, 457-49=408 BC, the exact date of 408-9 BC.

Now initially bible students where using Nehemiah2: 1, incorrectly starting the count at 454 BC.

The clue is in the last decree that was issued, which was to Ezra in 458 BC, Ezra 7:7-8.

Now in Daniel it also says that Jerusalem the city will be completely restored with plaza and moat even in times of trouble, which means completely rebuild. And there will be seven weeks allowed for this.

Daniel 9:25 So you are to know and understand that from the issuance of the command to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until [the coming of] the Messiah (the Anointed One), the Prince, there will be seven weeks [of years] and sixty-two weeks [of years]; it will be built again, with [a city] plaza and moat, even in times of trouble.

So yes, it aligns with Artaxerxes in 457 BC.

Shalom

 

[Filippus]

Have you considered that Artaxerxes I couldn't be the one to begin our count from since the Second Temple was completed before him in the 6th Year of Darius? If you look at the two decrees of Artaxerxes I in Ezra 7 and Nehemiah 2 he only gives permission to the Jews to rebuild Jerusalem, not the Temple.

The difference for me is that the letters given to Nehemiah, was in support of the decree or command already given to Ezra in 458 BC. Nehemiah 8 confirms that Ezra and Nehemiah worked together and that Nehemiah would have been well aware of what was allowed or promised to the Jewish people. Nehemiah playing a vital role in the fulfillment of Daniel 9.

But that doesn't change how the counting was started.

Shalom

 

[Filippus]

and this, using the same website.. Jewish Calendar 30 Diaspora | Hebcal

Compare it with Torah Calendar

TorahCalendar.com

Shalom

 

[Humble Penny]

The difference for me is that the letters given to Nehemiah, was in support of the decree or command already given to Ezra in 458 BC. Nehemiah 8 confirms that Ezra and Nehemiah worked together and that Nehemiah would have been well aware of what was allowed or promised to the Jewish people. Nehemiah playing a vital role in the fulfillment of Daniel 9.

But that doesn't change how the counting was started.

Shalom

You bring up some valid objections and points here. That said let's look at what the internal data of the Word of God says and see what results come out of it. According to the actual Greek text of Luke 3:23 we read:

We see that the translators left out a very important word from our modern English translations archomenos "beginning". Therefore we should actually see this in English...

"And Jesus was Himself [about to] begin His 30[th] year being [as] was supposed [the] son of Joseph[, the son] of Heli"

Since it is clear that Jesus was 29 Years old and was born in the late spring or early summer He would've turned 30 Years old shortly after beginning His ministry. Let's take his 30th Year and count back 69 Weeks:

30th Year of Christ to Beginning of 69 Weeks
30 AD - 483 Years = -453 BC

From here let's count up the years from Adam following the Masoretic Text and its date of creation set at -4004 BC:

Adam to -453 BC
0 Years 6 Days/0 AM/-4004 BC (Creation of the world to Adam)
1,656 Years/1656 AM/-2348 BC (Adam to Flood)
367 Years/2023 AM/-1981 BC (Flood to Abraham's 75th Year)
430 Years/2453 AM/-1551 BC (Abraham to Moses)
511 Years/2964 AM/-1040 BC (Moses to Saul)
517 Years/3481 AM/-523 BC (Saul to Babylon)
70 Years/3551 AM/-453 BC (Babylon to Cyrus)
3,551 Years/3551 AM/-453 BC (Adam to Cyrus)

To take this a step further let's address the period of the Judges. From Moses to Saul are 511 Years; and from the 80th Year of Moses to the division of the of the land and Caleb's request in Joshua 13-14 are 47 Years. This means Joshua and Caleb were 38 Years old at the time of the Exodus:

38th Year of Caleb to Caleb's 85th Year
40 Years (Wliderness Wandering ends in Caleb's 78th Year)
7 Years (Caleb receives land from Joshua in his 85th Year)

Now to figure out how long Joshua and Caleb ruled over the children of Israel with the elders we must deduct these years from the age of Joshua at his death:

Joshua's Death at 110 Years Old to His Birth
110 Years - 7 Years = 103 Years
103 Years - 40 Years = 63 Years
63 Years - 38 Years of Caleb = 25 Years
25 Years - 25 Years of Joshua = 0 Years

Joshua's Birth to His Death at 110 Years Old
0 Years (Joshua born in the 42nd Year of Moses)
38 Years (Birth to Exodus)
40 Years (Exodus to end of Wilderness Wandering)
7 Years (Division of Land and Caleb's request in 85th Year)
25 Years (Joshua dies at 110 Years old)
110 Years (Birth of Joshua to His Death)

Therefore we know from this that Joshua and Caleb ruled jointly for 25 Years; and Caleb ruled by himself for 1 Year after the death of Joshua. Joshua and Caleb were both born in the 42nd Year of Moses, and they left Egypt with the children of Israel in the 80th Year of Moses. So there are 33 Years from the death of Moses in his 120th Year to the period of the Judges which began with the oppression of Israel by king Cushan: therefore from the Exodus to the Judges are 73 Years.

With that out of the way we can address the passage in 1 Kings 6:1 which says that there are 480 Years from the Exodus in the 80th Year of Moses to the 4th Year of Solomon. This conflicts with the actual data given in the Masoretic Text which would tell us there are 597 Years 6 Months but why?

597.5 Years - 480 Years = 117.5 Years

1. The rabbis didn't count the 6 Months of David ruling in Hebron with his 7 Years (see 2 Samuel 2:11, 5:5 cf. 1 Chronicles 3:4).
2. The rabbis eliminated 117 Years from the period of the Judges. This was done by eliminating the 111 Years of oppression by their Canaanite neighbours and the 6 Years of Jephthah whose mother was a prostitute.

With this information we can see how the rabbi's calculated the 480 Years:

Actual Period of Judges
511 Years - 73 Years = 438 Years

Rabbis Calculations for Period of Judges
438 Years - 117 Years = 321 Years

Exodus to 4th Year of Solomon
73 Years (Moses to Judges)
321 Years (Judges to Saul)
40 Years (Saul)
2 Years (Ishbosheth)
40 Years (David)
4 Years (Solomon)
480 Years (Exodus to 4th Year of Solomon)

This means the rabbi's only count 394 Years from the Exodus to the 1st Year of king Saul instead of 511 Years which is exactly a 117 Year discrepancy. Let's see what that does to our date for the 1st Year of Cyrus:

Adam to Cyrus
0 Years 6 Days/0 AM/-4004 BC (Creation of the world to Adam)
1,656 Years/1656 AM/-2348 BC (Adam to Flood)
367 Years/2023 AM/-1981 BC (Flood to Abraham's 75th Year)
430 Years/2453 AM/-1551 BC (Abraham to Moses)
394 Years/2964 AM/-1157 BC (Moses to Saul)
517 Years/3481 AM/-640 BC (Saul to Babylon)
70 Years/3551 AM/-570 BC (Babylon to Cyrus)
3,434 Years/3434 AM/-570 BC (Adam to Cyrus)

This would land the death of Christ in -87 BC. This should show why we need to do proper accounting and invesitgate the claims of rabbinic judaism before swallowing it whole, especially since it in many--if not all--cases contradicts biblical judaism. Otherwise I have shown that the count of the 69 Weeks/483 Years cannot begin with Artaxerxes I, but instead starts with Cyrus the Great. When we add these missing years which the rabbi's weren't justified to remove the error disappears:

-87 BC + 117 Years = 30 AD

 

[Humble Penny]

Youl bring up some valid objections and points here. That said let's look at what the internal data of the Word of God and see what results come out of it. According to the actual Greek text of Luke 3:23 we read:

View attachment 312053

We see that the translators left out a very important word from our modern English translations archomenos "beginning". Therefore we should actually see this in English...

"And Jesus was Himself [about to] begin His 30[th] year being [as] was supposed [the] son of Joseph[, the son] of Heli"

Since it is clear that Jesus was 29 Years old and was born in the late spring or early summer He would've turned 30 Years old shortly after beginning His ministry. Let's take his 30th Year and count back 69 Weeks:

30th Year of Christ to Beginning of 69 Weeks
30 AD - 483 Years = -453 BC

From here let's count up the years from Adam following the Masoretic Text and its date of creation set at -4004 BC:

Adam to -453 BC
0 Years 6 Days/0 AM/-4004 BC (Creation of the world to Adam)
1,656 Years/1656 AM/-2348 BC (Adam to Flood)
367 Years/2023 AM/-1981 BC (Flood to Abraham's 75th Year)
430 Years/2453 AM/-1551 BC (Abraham to Moses)
511 Years/2964 AM/-1040 BC (Moses to Saul)
517 Years/3481 AM/-523 BC (Saul to Babylon)
70 Years/3551 AM/-453 BC (Babylon to Cyrus)
3,551 Years/3551 AM/-453 BC (Adam to Cyrus)

To take this a step further let's address the period of the Judges. From Moses to Saul are 511 Years; and from the 80th Year of Moses to the division of the of the land and Caleb's request in Joshua 13-14 are 47 Years. This means Joshua and Caleb were 38 Years old at the time of the Exodus:

38th Year of Caleb to Caleb's 85th Year
40 Years (Wliderness Wandering ends in Caleb's 78th Year)
7 Years (Caleb receives land from Joshua in his 85th Year)

Now to figure out how long Joshua and Caleb ruled over the children of Israel with the elders we must deduct these years from the age of Joshua at his death:

Joshua's Death at 110 Years Old
110 Years - 7 Years = 103 Years
103 Years - 40 Years = 63 Years
63 Years - 38 Years of Caleb = 25 Years

Therefore we know from this that Joshua and Caleb ruled jointly for 25 Years; and Caleb ruled by himself for 1 Year after the death of Joshua. Joshua and Caleb were both born in the 42nd Year of Moses, and they left Egypt with the children of Israel in the 80th Year of Moses. So there are 26 Years from the death of Moses in his 120th Year to the period of the Judges which began with the oppression of Israel by king Cushan: therefore from the Exodus to the Judges are 73 Years.

With that out of the way we can address the passage in 1 Kings 6:1 which says that there are 480 Years from the Exodus in the 80th Year of Moses to the 4th Year of Solomon. This conflicts with the actual data given in the Masoretic Text which would tell us there are 597 Years 6 Months but why?

597.5 Years - 480 Years = 117.5 Years

1. The rabbis didn't count the 6 Months of David ruling in Hebron with his 7 Years (see 2 Samuel 2:11, 5:5 cf. 1 Chronicles 3:4).
2. The rabbis eliminated 117 Years from the period of the Judges. This was done by eliminating the 111 Years of oppression by their Canaanite neighbours and the 6 Years of Jephthah whose mother was a prostitute.

With this information we can see how the rabbi's calculated the 480 Years:

Actual Period of Judges
511 Years - 73 Years = 438 Years

Rabbis Calculations for Period of Judges
438 Years - 117 Years = 321 Years

Exodus to 4th Year of Solomon
73 Years (Moses to Judges)
321 Years (Judges to Saul)
40 Years (Saul)
2 Years (Ishbosheth)
40 Years (David)
4 Years (Solomon)
480 Years (Exodus to 4th Year of Solomon)

This means the rabbi's only count 394 Years from the Exodus to the period of the Judges instead of 511 Years which is exactly a 117 Year discrepancy. Let's see what that does to our date for the 1st Year of Cyrus:

Adam to Cyrus
0 Years 6 Days/0 AM/-4004 BC (Creation of the world to Adam)
1,656 Years/1656 AM/-2348 BC (Adam to Flood)
367 Years/2023 AM/-1981 BC (Flood to Abraham's 75th Year)
430 Years/2453 AM/-1551 BC (Abraham to Moses)
394 Years/2964 AM/-1157 BC (Moses to Saul)
517 Years/3481 AM/-640 BC (Saul to Babylon)
70 Years/3551 AM/-570 BC (Babylon to Cyrus)
3,434 Years/3434 AM/-570 BC (Adam to Cyrus)

This would land the death of Christ in -87 BC. This should show why we need to do proper accounting and invesitgate the claims of rabbinic judaism before swallowing it whole, especially since it in many--if not all--cases contradicts biblical judaism. Otherwise I have shown that the count of the 69 Weeks/483 Years cannot begin with Artaxerxes I, but instead starts with Cyrus the Great. When we add these missing years which the rabbi's weren't justified to remove the error disappears:

-87 BC + 117 Years = 30 AD

For anyone curious as to how I reckoned the period of the Judges and Kings & Queens of Israel in post #96, and want a visual aid to download please look at my blog post:

Tables For The Judges, Kings And Queens Of Israel

When you download the .pdf file you'll have to zoom in in order to read the data properly. Sadly Google Sheets hasn't been created by Google to only include the cells which have data in them and separate them from the cells which don't have data.

 

[Humble Penny]

Youl bring up some valid objections and points here. That said let's look at what the internal data of the Word of God and see what results come out of it. According to the actual Greek text of Luke 3:23 we read:

View attachment 312053

We see that the translators left out a very important word from our modern English translations archomenos "beginning". Therefore we should actually see this in English...

"And Jesus was Himself [about to] begin His 30[th] year being [as] was supposed [the] son of Joseph[, the son] of Heli"

Since it is clear that Jesus was 29 Years old and was born in the late spring or early summer He would've turned 30 Years old shortly after beginning His ministry. Let's take his 30th Year and count back 69 Weeks:

30th Year of Christ to Beginning of 69 Weeks
30 AD - 483 Years = -453 BC

From here let's count up the years from Adam following the Masoretic Text and its date of creation set at -4004 BC:

Adam to -453 BC
0 Years 6 Days/0 AM/-4004 BC (Creation of the world to Adam)
1,656 Years/1656 AM/-2348 BC (Adam to Flood)
367 Years/2023 AM/-1981 BC (Flood to Abraham's 75th Year)
430 Years/2453 AM/-1551 BC (Abraham to Moses)
511 Years/2964 AM/-1040 BC (Moses to Saul)
517 Years/3481 AM/-523 BC (Saul to Babylon)
70 Years/3551 AM/-453 BC (Babylon to Cyrus)
3,551 Years/3551 AM/-453 BC (Adam to Cyrus)

To take this a step further let's address the period of the Judges. From Moses to Saul are 511 Years; and from the 80th Year of Moses to the division of the of the land and Caleb's request in Joshua 13-14 are 47 Years. This means Joshua and Caleb were 38 Years old at the time of the Exodus:

38th Year of Caleb to Caleb's 85th Year
40 Years (Wliderness Wandering ends in Caleb's 78th Year)
7 Years (Caleb receives land from Joshua in his 85th Year)

Now to figure out how long Joshua and Caleb ruled over the children of Israel with the elders we must deduct these years from the age of Joshua at his death:

Joshua's Death at 110 Years Old to His Birth
110 Years - 7 Years = 103 Years
103 Years - 40 Years = 63 Years
63 Years - 38 Years of Caleb = 25 Years
25 Years - 25 Years of Joshua = 0 Years

Joshua's Birth to His Death at 110 Years Old
0 Years (Joshua born in the 42nd Year of Moses)
38 Years (Birth to Exodus)
40 Years (Exodus to end of Wilderness Wandering)
7 Years (Division of Land and Caleb's request in 85th Year)
25 Years (Joshua dies at 110 Years old)
110 Years (Birth of Joshua to His Death)

Therefore we know from this that Joshua and Caleb ruled jointly for 25 Years; and Caleb ruled by himself for 1 Year after the death of Joshua. Joshua and Caleb were both born in the 42nd Year of Moses, and they left Egypt with the children of Israel in the 80th Year of Moses. So there are 33 Years from the death of Moses in his 120th Year to the period of the Judges which began with the oppression of Israel by king Cushan: therefore from the Exodus to the Judges are 73 Years.

With that out of the way we can address the passage in 1 Kings 6:1 which says that there are 480 Years from the Exodus in the 80th Year of Moses to the 4th Year of Solomon. This conflicts with the actual data given in the Masoretic Text which would tell us there are 597 Years 6 Months but why?

597.5 Years - 480 Years = 117.5 Years

1. The rabbis didn't count the 6 Months of David ruling in Hebron with his 7 Years (see 2 Samuel 2:11, 5:5 cf. 1 Chronicles 3:4).
2. The rabbis eliminated 117 Years from the period of the Judges. This was done by eliminating the 111 Years of oppression by their Canaanite neighbours and the 6 Years of Jephthah whose mother was a prostitute.

With this information we can see how the rabbi's calculated the 480 Years:

Actual Period of Judges
511 Years - 73 Years = 438 Years

Rabbis Calculations for Period of Judges
438 Years - 117 Years = 321 Years

Exodus to 4th Year of Solomon
73 Years (Moses to Judges)
321 Years (Judges to Saul)
40 Years (Saul)
2 Years (Ishbosheth)
40 Years (David)
4 Years (Solomon)
480 Years (Exodus to 4th Year of Solomon)

This means the rabbi's only count 394 Years from the Exodus to the period of the Judges instead of 511 Years which is exactly a 117 Year discrepancy. Let's see what that does to our date for the 1st Year of Cyrus:

Adam to Cyrus
0 Years 6 Days/0 AM/-4004 BC (Creation of the world to Adam)
1,656 Years/1656 AM/-2348 BC (Adam to Flood)
367 Years/2023 AM/-1981 BC (Flood to Abraham's 75th Year)
430 Years/2453 AM/-1551 BC (Abraham to Moses)
394 Years/2964 AM/-1157 BC (Moses to Saul)
517 Years/3481 AM/-640 BC (Saul to Babylon)
70 Years/3551 AM/-570 BC (Babylon to Cyrus)
3,434 Years/3434 AM/-570 BC (Adam to Cyrus)

This would land the death of Christ in -87 BC. This should show why we need to do proper accounting and invesitgate the claims of rabbinic judaism before swallowing it whole, especially since it in many--if not all--cases contradicts biblical judaism. Otherwise I have shown that the count of the 69 Weeks/483 Years cannot begin with Artaxerxes I, but instead starts with Cyrus the Great. When we add these missing years which the rabbi's weren't justified to remove the error disappears:

-87 BC + 117 Years = 30 AD

I didn't touch on post #96 about the discrepancy in the internal data of the Masoretic Text for 1 Kings 6:1 (480 Years) versus what we actually count (597.5 Years), and what we read in the Septuagint version of 1 Kings 6:1 that only 440 Years passed from the Exodus to the 4th Year of Solomon.

This is because for some odd reason between the time the Septuagint was translated in -284 BC and the translation of the Codex Vaticanus (oldest known copy of the LXX and New Testament) in c. 300-325 AD we see the scribes eliminated the 40 Years of king Saul's reign:

1 Samuel 13:1 (Masoretic Text)

1 Kings 13:1 is missing (Septuagint/LXX)

The LXX considers 1 & 2 Samuel from the MT as 1 & 2 Kings; and what the MT calls 1 & 2 Kings the LXX calls 3 & 4 Kings which is why you see a difference in the name of the books. And to complicate things further we read in the Masoretic Text that Eli ruled for 40 Years while the Septuagint tells us it was 20 Years:

1 Samuel 4:18 (Masoretic Text)

1 Kings 4:18 (Septuagint)

While this seems like an alarming problem at first it is very easy to solve since we have already properly accounted the years from Adam (-4004 BC) to the death of Christ (30 AD) in post #96. We will elminate 40 Years of Saul from the 517 Years of the kings of Israel and Judah:

Babylonian Captivity to 1st Year of Ishbosheth
517 Years - 40 Years of Saul = 477 Years

Death of Christ to 1st Year of Cyrus (Masoretic Text)
4034 AM/30 AD - 483 Years =
3551 AM/-453 BC (Christ's Death to Cyrus)

3551 AM/-453 BC - 70 Years =
3481 AM/-523 BC (Cyrus to Mattaniah/Zedekiah)

3481 AM/-523 BC - 477 Years =
3004 AM/-1000 BC (Mattaniah/Zedekiah to Ishbosheth)

From here we must count up the years from Adam to Samson and to do so we must eliminate the 40 Years of Eli and the 58 Years of Samuel from the 511 Years. In this way we can see how much time Eli, Samuel, and Saul should've realistically reigned:

Moses to Samson
511 Years - 58 Years = 453 Years
453 Years - 40 Years = 413 Years

Adam to Samson
0 Years 6 Days/0 AM/-4004 BC (Creation of the world to Adam)
1,656 Years/1656 AM/-2348 BC (Adam to Flood)
367 Years/2023 AM/-1981 BC (Flood to Abraham's 75th Year)
430 Years/2453 AM/-1551 BC (Abraham to Moses)
413 Years/ AM/-1138 BC (Moses to Samson)
2,866 Years/2866 AM/-1138 BC (Adam to Samson)

Time Between Samson and Ishbosheth
1,138 Years - 1,000 Years = 138 Years

Average Reign Length Between Eli, Samuel, and Saul
138 Years ÷ 3 People = 46 Years per Person

When we restore the 40 Years for Eli and Saul then there are only 58 Years left for Samuel to rule by himself as judge. We also have the testimony of Josephus who tells us that Eli ruled for 40 Years and that Samuel was called to succeed him at 12 Years old:

Josephus, Antiquitues of the Jews, Book V, Chapter 11:3

Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, Book V, Chapter 10:4

So we see that these numbers explain the old age and decline in health and eyesight and hearing of Eli and Samuel when the Bible says they reached an old age:

12th Year of Samuel to Death at 128 Years
40 Years (Samuel's 52nd Year and Eli's Death at 98 Years old)
58 Years (Samuel's sole reign as Judge ends in his 110th Year)
18 Years (Samuel co-rules with Saul until his 18th Year)
128 Years (Samuel's 12th Year to Death in 128th Year)

These calculations would explain why since the time of Eusebius the saints had difficulty in reconciling the faulty translations of Symmachus and Theodotion with what they read in the Septuagint.

 

[Humble Penny]

@Isaac Aldermann since your thread has been created to have a discussion, I want to say that the evidence I presented in posts #90, and 96-98 should at the very least cause us to question and reevalute how we read Daniel 9, and scrutinze the traditional explanations we've been given concerning the Second Temple period as it relates to the birth, death, and resurrection of Christ. There are so many conflicting doctrines built around around this very time in history that they all cannot be right, nor can they all be wrong. I hope my contributions have shown that we need two things to line up for the truth to be discovered:

1. The narrative must line up with the numbers.
2. The numbers must line up with the narrative.

If one of these don't align then that must mean you have to reevalute and scrutinize the other. If they both line up then that must means we must re-examine our understanding of the narrative and the chronology surrounding it.

 

[Filippus]

30th Year of Christ to Beginning of 69 Weeks

30 AD - 483 Years = -453 BC

From your posts, it appears that you believe that 30 AD simply means Jesus was 30 years old???

“However, Dionysius incorrectly calculated the year of Christ's birth. Both ancient and modern scholars placed this event sometime between 6 and 2 B.C. The reason for Dionysius's error is unclear.”

Dionysius Exiguus | Encyclopedia.com

In my own calculations, I have come to the same conclusion that Jesus was born 5-3 BC. 4 BC being a strong contender.

In my presentation, I have used external sources which agrees that king Artaxerxes 1, started his reign in 465 and used the "accession year system" or the "post-dating system." Concluded that his 7th year was 458 BC.

Now Ezra 7 tells us that he left in the seventh year on the first day of the first month, arriving in Jerusalem on the first day of the first month, which was still the seventh year of the king.

Basically, arrived in Jerusalem in July 458 BC.

Ezra 7:7 And there went up also to Jerusalem, in the seventh year of Artaxerxes the king, some of the people of Israel, and some of the priests and Levites, the singers and gatekeepers, and the temple servants. 8 And Ezraa]">[a] came to Jerusalem in the fifth month, which was in the seventh year of the king. 9 For on the first day of the first month he began to go up from Babylonia, and on the first day of the fifth month he came to Jerusalem, for the good hand of his God was on him.

Therefore, counting from returning to or actually back in Jerusalem takes us to 457 BC, also being year one.

I am still considering both the 1st and the 5th months as the possible start.

Thus,

457 + 26 = 483

Following Ezra’s account of the months, it places the first day of the first month of year 483 on ±Sept 25AD and the fifth month, ±July 26 AD.

The same applies to the 1st year of the 70th Shmita, which starts on the 1st day of the first month 26 AD ±Sept or as late as ±July 27 AD being the 5th month.

Now I am still working on this, but Jesus was tempted for 40 days after His baptism, so when exactly did He start?

Now although most people suggest a September Birth for Jesus, I have heard good arguments for a Passover birth. The only thing we know is that the animals weren’t kept inside, but was outside in the fields.

Therefore, in 26 AD Jesus, in my opinion, was 29 years old, depending on when He was born, it will suggest a start from ±Sept 26 AD to latest ±July 27 AD.

Hope this helps

Shalom