Date of Christ's Crucifixation

[Humble Penny]

From your posts, it appears that you believe that 30 AD simply means Jesus was 30 years old???

“However, Dionysius incorrectly calculated the year of Christ's birth. Both ancient and modern scholars placed this event sometime between 6 and 2 B.C. The reason for Dionysius's error is unclear.”

Dionysius Exiguus | Encyclopedia.com

In my own calculations, I have come to the same conclusion that Jesus was born 5-3 BC. 4 BC being a strong contender.

In my presentation, I have used external sources which agrees that king Artaxerxes 1, started his reign in 465 and used the "accession year system" or the "post-dating system." Concluded that his 7th year was 458 BC.

Now Ezra 7 tells us that he left in the seventh year on the first day of the first month, arriving in Jerusalem on the first day of the first month, which was still the seventh year of the king.

Basically, arrived in Jerusalem in July 458 BC.

Ezra 7:7 And there went up also to Jerusalem, in the seventh year of Artaxerxes the king, some of the people of Israel, and some of the priests and Levites, the singers and gatekeepers, and the temple servants. 8 And Ezraa]">[a] came to Jerusalem in the fifth month, which was in the seventh year of the king. 9 For on the first day of the first month he began to go up from Babylonia, and on the first day of the fifth month he came to Jerusalem, for the good hand of his God was on him.

Therefore, counting from returning to or actually back in Jerusalem takes us to 457 BC, also being year one.

I am still considering both the 1st and the 5th months as the possible start.

Thus,

457 + 26 = 483

Following Ezra’s account of the months, it places the first day of the first month of year 483 on ±Sept 25AD and the fifth month, ±July 26 AD.

The same applies to the 1st year of the 70th Shmita, which starts on the 1st day of the first month 26 AD ±Sept or as late as ±July 27 AD being the 5th month.

Now I am still working on this, but Jesus was tempted for 40 days after His baptism, so when exactly did He start?

Now although most people suggest a September Birth for Jesus, I have heard good arguments for a Passover birth. The only thing we know is that the animals weren’t kept inside, but was outside in the fields.

Therefore, in 26 AD Jesus, in my opinion, was 29 years old, depending on when He was born, it will suggest a start from ±Sept 26 AD to latest ±July 27 AD.

Hope this helps

Shalom

Well I did a lot more than simply "believe Jesus died at 30 AD because He's 30 Years old". I also did check the work of Dionysius Exiguus which you can view here:

DIONYSIUS EXIGUUS. LIBER DE PASCHATE SIVE CYCLUS PASCHALIS

Now after seeing that Dionysius truly didn't show his work as to how he got his date of 525 AD I simply took the traditional date in which Diocletian came into power (284 AD) and added 247 Years since our monk said that many years had passed from the persecutions of Diocletian against the Church to his present day on the then Anno Diocletiani ("Year of Diocletian") timeline, which he'd replace with his Anno Domini ("Year of Our Lord") system:

Persecutions of Diocletian to Dionysius
284 AD + 247 Years = 531 AD

Clearly our monk was lying according to the numbers. Why? Who knows...but, from what I've found these bold faced falsifications we're being used to cover up the important years related to the First and Second Coming of Christ. Not only did I check this out but I also showed the dates given by Thiele and Albright for the destruction of the First Temple to be based on nothing but their wild imaginations:

Addressing The Works Of Thiele And Albright

So in closing brother Filippus my work has shown that my conclusions aren't based on any wild speculation, feeling, or blind belief. Rather I have shown in posts #90 and 96-98 that there's no way anyone could examine the historical written documents and still walk away believing in the traditional -6 BC to -4 BC dates for the birth of Christ whether you use the Septuagint or the Masoretic Text. You'd have to completely ignore all of this in order to form a different conclusion.

 

[Humble Penny]

From your posts, it appears that you believe that 30 AD simply means Jesus was 30 years old???

“However, Dionysius incorrectly calculated the year of Christ's birth. Both ancient and modern scholars placed this event sometime between 6 and 2 B.C. The reason for Dionysius's error is unclear.”

I almost forgot to address this point. Dionysius was not in error in setting the birth of Christ at 0 BC/1 AD. When you check the works of Eusebius, Jerome, Raphael Holinshed, St. Epiphianus, Eutychius of Alexandria, Agabius, and others: they all state that Christ was born in the 42nd Year of Augustus Caesar. Therefore if you count backward the same number of years you get the Anno Domini date of -42 BC...lol! There's no way to get around that...

While Egyptian chronology is fraught with assumptions and many errors we have been able to synchronize the dates of the Assyrian, Babylonian, Median, Persian, Greek, and Roman kings with the Anno Mundi dates provided by Scripture. But of course it's in everyone's power to choose what they believe and how they look at the evidence...I just want it to be clear from my end that I have done my best to present the evidence from an objective and unbiased perspective.

 

[Filippus]

Persecutions of Diocletian to Dionysius
284 AD + 247 Years = 531 AD

How did you compute 247 Years?

 

[Humble Penny]

How did you compute 247 Years?

If you click the first hyperlinked text in post #101 it will take you straight to the work of Dionysius Exiguus which has been translated from the Latin text.

 

[Humble Penny]

How did you compute 247 Years?

If you click the first hyperlinked text in post #101 it will take you straight to the work of Dionysius Exiguus which has been translated from the Latin text.

Also when you check the work of Eusebius in his Excerpta Latina Barbari you will find that he records 220 Years from Diocletian to Anastasius I. And it is under Anastasius I that Probus Junior was consul.

Excerpta Latina Barbari - translation

 

[visionary]

<snip>.....Since it is clear that Jesus was 29 Years old and was born in the late spring or early summer He would've turned 30 Years old shortly after beginning His ministry. Let's take his 30th Year and count back 69 Weeks:....<snip>

Those of us who believe that Yeshua was born during the Feast of Tabernacles have good reason to think so.....Timing of Yeshua's birth

 

[Filippus]

Those of us who believe that Yeshua was born during the Feast of Tabernacles have good reason to think so.....Timing of Yeshua's birth

You need to consider that Abijah was on duty at least twice that year, with all of them required for the national feasts.

21 And the people were waiting for Zechariah, and they were wondering at his delay in the temple. 22 And when he came out, he was unable to speak to them, and they realized that he had seen a vision in the temple. And he kept making signs to them and remained mute. 23 And when his time of service was ended, he went to his home.

Considering that the people were waiting for Zechariah to come out, suggest that he was operating on the day of Atonement.

Therefore, I am considering both.

Hope this helps
Shalom

 

[Humble Penny]

You need to consider that Abijah was on duty at least twice that year, with all being required for the national feasts.

21 And the people were waiting for Zechariah, and they were wondering at his delay in the temple. 22 And when he came out, he was unable to speak to them, and they realized that he had seen a vision in the temple. And he kept making signs to them and remained mute. 23 And when his time of service was ended, he went to his home.

Considering that the people were waiting for Zechariah to come out, suggest that he was operating on the day of Atonement.

Therefore, I am considering both.

Hope this helps
Shalom

The question is though have you put it down on paper my dear brother? In theory assuming that Calendar Year 1 starts the 1st Week with Jehoiarib (1) and ends the 24th Week with Maaziah (24); this would also happen for the 25th and 48th Week: this means that for the 49th-52nd Week the year closes with Priests (1) thru (4), therefore Calendar Year 2 will begin with Priest (5).

Another thing to consider is why the Qumran community begins creation with Gamul (22) instead of Jehoiarib (1)? I haven't figured out the reason for myself, but basically it's one thing to hypothesize, but another thing to test your hypothesis.

 

[Humble Penny]

You need to consider that Abijah was on duty at least twice that year, with all being required for the national feasts.

21 And the people were waiting for Zechariah, and they were wondering at his delay in the temple. 22 And when he came out, he was unable to speak to them, and they realized that he had seen a vision in the temple. And he kept making signs to them and remained mute. 23 And when his time of service was ended, he went to his home.

Considering that the people were waiting for Zechariah to come out, suggest that he was operating on the day of Atonement.

Therefore, I am considering both.

Hope this helps
Shalom

And don't forget that you also need to decide which date of creation you're going by because that will affect what month and year John and Yeshua are born under...and you need to address which Jubilee year you're counting by...just some things to consider before hastily running the numbers.

 

[klutedavid]

And don't forget that you also need to decide which date of creation you're going by because that will affect what month and year John and Yeshua are born under...and you need to address which Jubilee year you're counting by...just some things to consider before hastily running the numbers.

Such an interesting thread to read. I read every post. Thanks for all the work you put into this.

 

[Humble Penny]

Such an interesting thread to read. I read every post. Thanks for all the work you put into this.

Uhh...thanks...glad you can appreciate it

 

[Christian Gedge]

I would like to offer five reasons starting with Astronomical Data.

My fifth reason for the AD30 date is the Conversion of St. Paul.

This happened late AD 32, which is of course, before the late date crucifixion theory and therefore a non-possibility. We are left with the conclusion that the crucifixion couldn’t be AD 33 but had to be AD 30 just like all the other evidence shows.

The time of Paul’s conversion is calculated from his account to the Galatians and by cross-referencing it to the record in Acts. Paul relates:

"When it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called me through His grace ... I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days ... Afterward I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia and I was unknown by face to the churches of Judea which were in Christ ... Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me."
(Galatians 1:15 - 2:1)​

Thus AD 32 plus three plus fourteen equals AD 49, which is another known anchor date. In this year, AD 49, St. Paul took part in the great Jerusalem Council as recorded in Acts 15. Therefore, his conversion is pinpointed and likewise the cross is nailed. There is a consistent pattern of evidence that our Lord was crucified on Passover day, April 7th AD 30.

 

[Filippus]

My fifth reason for the AD30 date is the Conversion of St. Paul.

This happened late AD 32, which is of course, before the late date crucifixion theory and therefore a non-possibility. We are left with the conclusion that the crucifixion couldn’t be AD 33 but had to be AD 30 just like all the other evidence shows.

The time of Paul’s conversion is calculated from his account to the Galatians and by cross-referencing it to the record in Acts. Paul relates:

"When it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called me through His grace ... I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days ... Afterward I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia and I was unknown by face to the churches of Judea which were in Christ ... Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and also took Titus with me."
(Galatians 1:15 - 2:1)​

Thus AD 32 plus three plus fourteen equals AD 49, which is another known anchor date. In this year, AD 49, St. Paul took part in the great Jerusalem Council as recorded in Acts 15. Therefore, his conversion is pinpointed and likewise the cross is nailed. There is a consistent pattern of evidence that our Lord was crucified on Passover day, April 7th AD 30.

The vision of Peter in Acts 10 after Paul's conversion places the vision on 33AD, the end of the seventieth week. Completing the 70 weeks from Daniel and opening the door to the Gentiles by confirming God’s acceptance to the Gentiles.

Shalom

 

[Humble Penny]

The vision of Peter in Acts 10 after Paul's conversion places the vision on 33AD, the seventieth week. Completing the 70 weeks from Daniel and opening the door to the Gentiles by confirming God’s acceptance to the Gentiles.

Shalom

If this is true then where's the mention of the Abomination of Desolation mentioned in Daniel 9:27? And since Yeshua dies after 69 Weeks/483 Years who is making the covenant with many for 1 Week/7 Years in your view on post #113? I don't recall the sacrifices being stopped in the middle of the 7 Years in either Yeshua or Paul's story...and neither mention any setting up of the Abomination of Desolation mentioned by Christ in Matthew 24:15...

 

[Filippus]

The question is though have you put it down on paper my dear brother?

I am not sucking this out of my thumb, its an attempt to puzzle together the evidence given to us in scripture.

There was a large crowd outside the temple, who marveled that Zecharias tarried so long. Luke 1:21 is a clue as to the particular ceremony or festival in which large groups of people would be outside the temple waiting.

The large crowd outside the temple doesn't differentiate between Passover or Yom Kippur in my view. However considering that the people were waiting for Zechariah to come out, strongly suggest that he was operating on the day of Atonement. If this happened during the month of Tishri Jesus was born at Passover.

Now even if my priestly order is incorrect all the priests would be in Jerusalem during the National feasts, I have simply included it to show that it actually works.

The unknown value is in when Elizabeth conceived, because scripture doesn't say. It implies soon, and I have allowed 3-6 weeks.

Calculating the Priestley order for 4 BC I found it to start with 22.

The allotted weeks for the Priestly order starting with the 22nd priest is listed below and Abijah being the 8th fell on weeks 11 and 35 that year, which in turn fell during the 3rd and 8th months on the calendar year respectively. See Priestly order below, these tables are valid whether you use the Enoch calendar or the Jewish calendar.

Below I have tested both options which supports a 1st or 7th month as the birth month.

Hope this helps

Shalom

 

[Filippus]

If this is true then where's the mention of the Abomination of Desolation mentioned in Daniel 9:27? And since Yeshua dies after 69 Weeks/483 Years who is making the covenant with many for 1 Week/7 Years in your view on post #113? I don't recall the sacrifices being stopped in the middle of the 7 Years in either Yeshua or Paul's story...and neither mention any setting up of the Abomination of Desolation mentioned by Christ in Matthew 24:15...

The 70th week fell between 27 and 33 AD. The April 7th AD 30 being the 4th year, April 7th half way on the 4th year, placing the crucifixion exactly in the middle of the 70th week.

The 70th week is where Jesus put an end to sacrifice and offering. This timing on the calendar suggest a strong link back to verse 27 in Daniel.

Shalom

 

[Filippus]

If this is true then where's the mention of the Abomination of Desolation mentioned in Daniel 9:27? And since Yeshua dies after 69 Weeks/483 Years who is making the covenant with many for 1 Week/7 Years in your view on post #113? I don't recall the sacrifices being stopped in the middle of the 7 Years in either Yeshua or Paul's story...and neither mention any setting up of the Abomination of Desolation mentioned by Christ in Matthew 24:15...

I have simply addressed the calendar dates in relation to the scriptures. Confirming a 30 AD crucifixion.

The way you want to interpret Daniel 9:24-27 is up to you, most people do this without understanding the calendar references in the first place, but I strongly suggest to consider the calendar references first.

Shalom

 

[Humble Penny]

The 70th week fell between 27 and 33 AD. The April 7th AD 30 being the 4th year, April 7th half way on the 4th year, placing the crucifixion exactly in the middle of the 70th week.

The 70th week is where Jesus put an end to sacrifice and offering. This timing on the calendar suggest a strong link back to verse 27 in Daniel.

Shalom

I have simply addressed the calendar dates in relation to the scriptures. Confirming a 30 AD crucifixion.

The way you want to interpret Daniel 9:24-27 is up to you, most people do this without understanding the calendar references in the first place, but I strongly suggest to consider the calendar references first.

Shalom

Here's what Daniel says:

"Then after the 62 weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. And he will make a firm covenant with the many for 1 Week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”
Daniel 9:26‭-‬27 NASB1995

Let's do some baic arithmetic:

Decree to Restore and Build Jerusalem to Completion of Temple
70 Weeks - 7 Weeks = 63 Weeks

Completion of Temple to Messiah Being Cut Off
63 Weeks - 62 Weeks = 1 Week

1. Seeing that Yeshua dies after 69 Weeks where is your 70th Week?
2. How can Yeshua die after 69 Weeks and still be the one to make the covenant with many for 1 Week when He is dead already?
3. Who is "the prince who is to come who will destroy the city and the sanctuary"?
4. And will "the prince who is to come" or Yeshua be the one to make the covenant with many?

 

[Filippus]

Here's what Daniel says:

"Then after the 62 weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. And he will make a firm covenant with the many for 1 Week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”
Daniel 9:26‭-‬27 NASB1995

Let's do some baic arithmetic:

Decree to Restore and Build Jerusalem to Completion of Temple
70 Weeks - 7 Weeks = 63 Weeks

Completion of Temple to Messiah Being Cut Off
63 Weeks - 62 Weeks = 1 Week

1. Seeing that Yeshua dies after 69 Weeks where is your 70th Week?
2. How can Yeshua die after 69 Weeks and still be the one to make the covenant with many for 1 Week when He is dead already?
3. Who is "the prince who is to come who will destroy the city and the sanctuary"?
4. And will "the prince who is to come" or Yeshua be the one to make the covenant with many?

Your basic arithmetic adds noting to your point, you have just reworded your previous post.

If this is true then where's the mention of the Abomination of Desolation mentioned in Daniel 9:27? And since Yeshua dies after 69 Weeks/483 Years who is making the covenant with many for 1 Week/7 Years in your view on post #113? I don't recall the sacrifices being stopped in the middle of the 7 Years in either Yeshua or Paul's story...and neither mention any setting up of the Abomination of Desolation mentioned by Christ in Matthew 24:15...

The way you want to interpret Daniel 9:24-27 is up to you.

Let's do some baic arithmetic:

Decree to Restore and Build Jerusalem to Completion of Temple
70 Weeks - 7 Weeks = 63 Weeks

This vision in Daniel 9 occurs ± 5 years before the Temple was rebuilt, and therefore is not to the Completion of the Temple as you suggest above.

Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word(command or decree) to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one,

The question you should answer is why are you ignoring the 70th week?

The prophesy was specified as 70 week of years, NOT as 69 weeks of years.

7 x 7 = 49 years to restore Jerusalem.
62 x 7 = 434 years to Messiah
1 x 7 = 7 years to make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering.

“Seventy weeks" are decreed about your people and your holy city,
1. to finish the transgression,
2. to put an end to sin, and
3. to atone for iniquity,
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness,
5. to seal both vision and prophet, and
6. to anoint a most holy place.

Shalom

 

[Humble Penny]

Your basic arithmetic adds noting to your point, you have just reworded your previous post.


The way you want to interpret Daniel 9:24-27 is up to you.


This vision in Daniel 9 occurs ± 5 years before the Temple was rebuilt, and therefore is not to Completion of Temple as you suggest above.

Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word(command or decree) to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one,

The question you should answer is why are you ignoring the 70th week?

The prophesy was specified as 70 week of years, NOT as 69 weeks of years.

7 x 7 = 49 years to restore Jerusalem.
62 x 7 = 434 years to Messiah
1 x 7 = 7 years to make a strong covenant with many for one week, and
for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering.

“Seventy weeks" are decreed about your people and your holy city,
1. to finish the transgression,
2. to put an end to sin, and
3. to atone for iniquity,
4. to bring in everlasting righteousness,
5. to seal both vision and prophet, and
6. to anoint a most holy place.

Shalom

I'm not ignoring the 70 Weeks in post #118 I'm not giving my interpretation of anything. I simply asked you four different questions for clarification on who the prince who is to come is according to your view? How can Yeshua die after 69 Weeks and make a covenant with many for 1 Week while still in the grave?