Date of Christ's Crucifixation

[Humble Penny]

Well it seems you don't actually have your own original ideas to contribute to this discussion...what year did Yeshua die according to you? And what historical evidence do you have to back it up?

 

[daq]

Well it seems you don't actually have your own original ideas to contribute to this discussion...what year did Yeshua die according to you? And what historical evidence do you have to back it up?

Are you responding to me? You didn't quote either of my previous posts to you. If you cannot be clear and concise then how can you fault others for not being able to read your mind? Moreover, imo, throwing out dates isn't how we get to the truth. My main reasons for how and what I understand and believe are expounded in the scripture: but comprehension is required.

In the case with what I offered on the previous page, the rain is the Spirit in the prophecy: for Elohim pours out His Spirit, (living water), just as He pours out rain upon the earth. From the commencement of the ministry of Eliyah there were three years and six months without rain, when the heavens were shut up in the days of Eliyah, (Luke 4:25), and therefore, when all the people had been immersed, it came to pass that the Meshiah was also immersed, (Luke 3:21). And what happenes then? The rain comes, (Luke 3:22).

It seems you failed to notice or heed what is stated in Luke 3:21, that all the people had been immersed, and in the Gospel of Luke that process commences with the commencement of the public ministry of Yohanne, when the Rhema-Word of Elohim comes to him, that is, in Luke 3:2.

 

[Humble Penny]

Are you responding to me? You didn't quote either of my previous posts to you. If you cannot be clear and concise then how can you fault others for not being able to read your mind? Moreover, imo, throwing out dates isn't how we get to the truth. My main reasons for how and what I understand and believe are expounded in the scripture: but comprehension is required.

In the case with what I offered on the previous page, the rain is the Spirit in the prophecy: for Elohim pours out His Spirit, (living water), just as He pours out rain upon the earth. From the commencement of the ministry of Eliyah there were three years and six months without rain, when the heavens were shut up in the days of Eliyah, (Luke 4:25), and therefore, when all the people had been immersed, it came to pass that the Meshiah was also immersed, (Luke 3:21). And what happenes then? The rain comes, (Luke 3:22).

It seems you failed to notice or heed what is stated in Luke 3:21, that all the people had been immersed, and in the Gospel of Luke that process commences with the commencement of the public ministry of Yohanne, when the Rhema-Word of Elohim comes to him, that is, in Luke 3:2.

So what date exactly did Yeshua die in your view since that's what the discussion of this thread is about?

 

[daq]

So what date exactly did Yeshua die in your view since that's what the discussion of this thread is about?

Apparently it is at least three years and six months beyond what you claim. However you already have what I have posted thus far herein, and if indeed you are the historian and chronologist you claim to be then you should have no problem figuring out what I believe from that information: just adhere to the scripture. What a shame, after all the threads you have posted around here: it's back to the drawing board for you because you did not heed the scripture. But I am quite sure you will do no such thing.

 

[daq]

Well it seems you don't actually have your own original ideas to contribute to this discussion...what year did Yeshua die according to you? And what historical evidence do you have to back it up?

So what date exactly did Yeshua die in your view since that's what the discussion of this thread is about?

Please review the statement in the OP which specifically highlights in bold font the statement "What I'd like to know is all the reasons..."

SO! What I'd like to know is all the reasons why you think [Insert Date] is the year of Christ's crucifixion.

You understand what reasons and reasoning are, correct?

 

[Humble Penny]

Apparently it is at least three years and six months beyond what you claim. However you already have what I have posted thus far herein, and if indeed you are the historian and chronologist you claim to be then you should have no problem figuring out what I believe from that information: just adhere to the scripture. What a shame, after all the threads you have posted around here: it's back to the drawing board for you because you did not heed the scripture. But I am quite sure you will do no such thing.

Right so you have a problem because John dies before the end of Yeshua's ministry. Luke 3 is clear that Yeshua began His ministry at 29 going on 30 in the 15th Year of Tiberius.

So before you can tackle Common Era and Anno Domini dates you must understand that they weren't in use prior to the time of their creation. In short this means you have to use the dating practices of the ancients, which for the sake of brevity would be the Anno Mundi, Olympiads, and Ab Urbe Condita systems. While their technical names wouldn't come into use until much later in history the methods of these dating systems were already of ancient use during the time of Christ.

Romulus to the Roman Republic
4964 AM
68th Olympiad
244 Years ÷ 4 Years = 61 Olympiads
244 AUC

Republic to Augustus Caesar's 1st Year
5428 AM
184th Olympiad
464 Years ÷ 4 Years = 116 Olympiads
708 AUC

1st Year of Augustus to Christ's Birth
5470 AM
194.5th Olympiad
42 Years ÷ 4 Years = 10.5 Olympiads
750 AUC

Now to confirm that Yeshua was born during the 42nd Year of Augustus we must consult Matthew 2 for the years of Yeshua during the reign of Herod the Great. When Herod asked the Magi what time the Star appeared to them in the East they informed him it was 2 Years ago: therefore Herod ordered all Jewish boys in Bethlehem be killed that were 2 Years old and younger; in the same place Matthew tells us that Joseph, Mary, and baby Yeshua fled to Egypt and stayed their until the death of Herod. We know Herod the Great ruled for 37 Years therefore this means:

Death of Herod to Yeshua's Birth
37th Year - 2 Years = 35th Year (Christ is 2)
35th Year - 2 Years = 33rd Year (Christ is Born)

With this information we can now use our modern dates to figure out when these things occured...

Convert Anno Mundi to Anno Domini
1st Year of Augustus Caesar
5428 AM - 5,470 Years = -42 BC

Death of Herod to His 1st Year
4 AD - 37 Years = -33 BC

Herod began his reign in the 9th Year of Augustus...

1st Year of Augustus to Christ's Birth
-42 BC + 42 Years = 0 BC/1 AD
42nd Year of Augustus

Christ's Birth to His 12th Year
1 AD + 12 Years = 12 AD
54th Year of Augustus

Christ in Temple to 1st Year of Tiberius
12 AD + 3 Years = 15 AD (Christ is 15)
Augustus dies after ruling 57 Years

1st of Tiberius to His 15th Year
15 AD + 15 Years = 30 AD

This is all in accord with the accounts of Matthew and Luke. The Greek text of Luke says Yeshua was about to begin His 30th Year which would make Him 29 going on 30. The numbers make it clear that Yeshua's birth would've occured in late spring, summer, or fall which has Him turning 30 in the 15th Year of Tiberius. The following year Yeshua would die at 30 Years old in the following years:

5500 AM
202nd Olympiad
780 AUC
30 AD

If you can do arithmetic this means Rome was founded in -750 BC instead of the traditional -753 BC date. What would this imply? That modern historians pushed back the date of Yeshua's death by 3 Years which would also lengthen His ministry to make it 3 Years instead of 1 Year...

30 AD - 3 Years = 27 AD
27 AD - 780 Years = -753 BC

What does this do to the birth date of Yeshua?

Romulus to Birth of Christ
-753 BC + 750 Years = -3 BC

Birth of Christ to Start of Ministry
-3 BC + 30 Years = 27 AD (Christ is 30)
15th Year of Tiberius

Start of Ministry to End of Ministry
27 AD + 3 Years = 30 AD (Christ is 33)
18th Year of Tiberius

The simplest way to prove modern historians have it wrong is simply that Anno Domini dates count the years from the birth of Christ to the present year, therefore all dates before His birth are labeled Before Christ and will be negative dates, or in other words dates before 0 BC. To prove this to be true let's look at the year my father and I were born:

1963 AD (HP's Father is Born)
1988 AD (HP's born in Father's 25th Year)

The above shows that there are -25 BHP (Before Humble Penny). You simply count up 25 Years and that brings you to 0 BHP/1 AHP (Anno Humble Penny) in the year 1988 AD. You wouldn't count any differently with the other pagan dating systems above, so you wouldn't do it with the Anno Domini or Common Era dates either. Sadly people don't understand the political and religious hatred the opponents of Christ have towards our Lord, and because of this many swallow the stupid dates of our Lord's enemies without checking the truthfulness of their work.

In closing we see that a ministry longer than 1 Year isn't supported by history. And we also see that your wild tales aren't supported either since you seem to forget that Jesus and John were born about 1 Year apart from one another. And if you want to argue a lunar or solar calendar you can't claim the Gregorian (created in 1582 AD) or the Modern Jewish Calendar (created c. 320-385 AD), and you can't claim any other secular or pagan calendar because if you trace time back to just Adam there was only him and God and one calendar created by God on the 4th Day of Creation.

 

[daq]

Right so you have a problem because John dies before the end of Yeshua's ministry. Luke 3 is clear that Yeshua began His ministry at 29 going on 30 in the 15th Year of Tiberius.

No, that isn't true: it's your false premise that disallows you from seeing what has been said. Why should Yohanne being imprisoned and then beheaded have any impact on what I have presented? It doesn't.

However you do have a problem, as already stated, for you ignore the three years and six months between Luke 3:2 and the immersion in Luke 3:22, in which time frame all the people were immersed, (as stated in Luke 3:21).

Apparently you are not quite ready to believe that Yohanne is Eliyah as the Meshiah says, ("if you will receive it"), which was already quoted from Matthew 11. And therefore you disregard what is taught in the scripture concerning the ministry of Eliyah, as also already quoted from, referenced, and cited multiple times from 1 Kings 17 and the statement in Luke 4.

Why would you do such things if you are the seasoned historian and chronologist you claim to be? No doubt so that you may sideline the logos-reasoning and wisdom in the actual scripture contexts and defer to your own reasoning. The rest of what you offered is therefore rendered irrelevant at this point, and besides, I've already seen all of it anyway.

 

[Humble Penny]

No, that isn't true: it's your false premise that disallows you from seeing what has been said. Why should Yohanne being imprisoned and then beheaded have any impact on what I have presented? It doesn't.

However you do have a problem, as already stated, for you ignore the three years and six months between Luke 3:2 and the immersion in Luke 3:22, in which time frame all the people were immersed, (as stated in Luke 3:21).

Apparently you are not quite ready to believe that Yohanne is Eliyah as the Meshiah says, ("if you will receive it"), which was already quoted from Matthew 11. And therefore you disregard what is taught in the scripture concerning the ministry of Eliyah, as also already quoted from, referenced, and cited multiple times from 1 Kings 17 and the statement in Luke 4.

Why would you do such things if you are the seasoned historian and chronologist you claim to be? No doubt so that you may sideline the logos-reasoning and wisdom in the actual scripture contexts and defer to your own reasoning. The rest of what you offered is therefore rendered irrelevant at this point, and besides, I've already seen all of it anyway.

You use the supposed 3½ Year Ministry of John to assert a 3½ Year Ministry of Christ...yet you're unable to explain why John died before the 3½ Year Ministry of Yeshua was over. And then you contradict yourself again by saying that John had already preached for 3½ Years by asserting that much time passed between Luke 3:2 and 21.

Clearly you can't produce any historical documents to back up your claims.

 

[daq]

You use the supposed 3½ Year Ministry of John to assert a 3½ Year Ministry of Christ...

Would it be possible for you to stop making false claims? Please quote the post where I asserted that the ministry of the Meshiah was three and a half years so I can correct it: otherwise please stop making false claims about what I have said.

yet you're unable to explain why John died before the 3½ Year Ministry of Yeshua was over.

Why would I explain something I did not assert?

And then you contradict yourself again by saying that John had already preached for 3½ Years by asserting that much time passed between Luke 3:2 and 21.

I have said that three years and six months passed between Luke 3:2 and Luke 3:21, and during that time all the people were immersed, just as the passage says: but I have not contradicted that position as far as I know, unless you can show me where I did, (so that I can correct it).

Clearly you can't produce any historical documents to back up your claims.

The scripture is not a "historical document" according to you? or is it rather that you do not accept scripture as evidence when it disagrees with your theory?

 

[Humble Penny]

Would it be possible for you to stop making false claims? Please quote the post where I asserted that the ministry of the Meshiah was three and a half years so I can correct it: otherwise please stop making false claims about what I have said.

Apparently you're back peddling now and pretend to have amnesia because you lost track of your own words which I will reproduce here:

So what date exactly did Yeshua die in your view since that's what the discussion of this thread is about?

Apparently it is at least three years and six months beyond what you claim. However you already have what I have posted thus far herein, and if indeed you are the historian and chronologist you claim to be then you should have no problem figuring out what I believe from that information: just adhere to the scripture. What a shame, after all the threads you have posted around here: it's back to the drawing board for you because you did not heed the scripture. But I am quite sure you will do no such thing.

It's clear that you claim Yeshua's ministry to last 3.5 Years and have used the passage from kings about Elijah stopping the rain for 3.5 Years to justify your claim.

If you're going to actually make the ministry of John make sense and connect Baptism and Rain: then you would need to count his time in the wilderness as the start point and the baptism of Yeshua as the end point.

 

[daq]

Apparently you're back peddling now and pretend to have amnesia because you lost track of your own words which I will reproduce here:




It's clear that you claim Yeshua's ministry to last 3.5 Years and have used the passage from kings about Elijah stopping the rain for 3.5 Years to justify your claim.

If you're going to actually make the ministry of John make sense and connect Baptism and Rain: then you would need to count his time in the wilderness as the start point and the baptism of Yeshua as the end point.

No, I didn't say what you claim. You've made it clear that you have no reading comprehension.

 

[Humble Penny]

No, I didn't say what you claim. You've made it clear that you have no reading comprehension.

As I thought...you're great at finding fault but can't produce any original ideas of your own. You criticize historians and chronologists with your inflated and slanderous tongue, yet you can't even adequately account for your own view.

But why should this be a suprise? Your base slander is no better than Shimei who hurled dust and stones at men greater than himself, nor are you far removed from Thersites: however if the sword of Abishai or the staff of Odysseus were to strike your back, how your tongue would howl and whimper. The Lord knows what to do with men of your sort.

 

[daq]

As I thought...you're great at finding fault but can't produce any original ideas of your own. You criticize historians and chronologists with your inflated and slanderous tongue, yet you can't even adequately account for your own view.

But why should this be a suprise? Your base slander is no better than Shimei who hurled dust and stones at men greater than himself, nor are you far removed from Thersites: however if the sword of Abishai or the staff of Odysseus were to strike your back, how your tongue would howl and whimper. The Lord knows what to do with men of your sort.

Speaking the truth is slander? It's you who keeps claiming that I have said things which I have not said. Moreover if you had understood what I meant by what I said you would understand that I believe the ministry of the Meshiah begins exactly where Luke 3 says: at his immersion. How you can construe that to mean that his ministry runs congruent with the three years and six months between Luke 3:2 and the immersion of Meshiah is beyond me. Once again it just shows that you are not comprehending what you read. And if you cannot comprehend my words then why should I believe that you comprehend the scripture or any of the other historical documents which you quote to make your claims?

 

[Humble Penny]

So what date exactly did Yeshua die in your view since that's what the discussion of this thread is about?

Apparently it is at least three years and six months beyond what you claim. However you already have what I have posted thus far herein, and if indeed you are the historian and chronologist you claim to be then you should have no problem figuring out what I believe from that information: just adhere to the scripture. What a shame, after all the threads you have posted around here: it's back to the drawing board for you because you did not heed the scripture. But I am quite sure you will do no such thing.

Speaking the truth is slander? It's you who keeps claiming that I have said things which I have not said. Moreover if you had understood what I meant by what I said you would understand that I believe the ministry of the Meshiah begins exactly where Luke 3 says: at his immersion. How you can construe that to mean that his ministry runs congruent with the three years and six months between Luke 3:2 and the immersion of Meshiah is beyond me. Once again it just shows that you are not comprehending what you read. And if you cannot comprehend my words then why should I believe that you comprehend the scripture or any of the other historical documents which you quote to make your claims?

Contradicting yourself yet again...you claim the beginning of Yeshua's ministry began at immersion and you also said earlier that His death was 3.5 Years later...and hilariously enough you then claim that you never said His ministry to last 3.5 Years...

 

[daq]

Contradicting yourself yet again...you claim the beginning of Yeshua's ministry began at immersion and you also said earlier that His death was 3.5 Years later...and hilariously enough you then claim that you never said His ministry to last 3.5 Years...

No, I didn't say that. I said that apparently it is at least three years and six months later than you claim because you choose not to recognize the three years and six months between Luke 3:2 and the immersion of the Meshiah. Those three years and six months of the public ministry of Yohanne do not impact the length of the ministry of the Meshiah, and therefore I said, "at least".

 

[Humble Penny]

No, I didn't say that. I said that apparently it is at least three years and six months later than you claim because you choose not to recognize the three years and six months between Luke 3:2 and the immersion of the Meshiah. Those three years and six months of the public ministry of Yohanne do not impact the length of the ministry of the Meshiah, and therefore I said, "at least".

I truly do pity you brother...I will leave you the key to unshackle the chain around your neck so that when you decide to leave the Cave of Darkness you may then reach the entrance of it and see the Light of Truth. Your eyes will need time to adjust but I guarantee you that the World of Light far surpasses the Cave of Darkness many men have been accustomed to living in.

 

[daq]

I truly do pity you brother...I will leave you the key to unshackle the chain around your neck so that when you decide to leave the Cave of Darkness you may then reach the entrance of it and see the Light of Truth. Your eyes will need time to adjust but I guarantee you that the World of Light far surpasses the Cave of Darkness many men have been accustomed to living in.

And if the date in question in this thread has already been offered here without actually tossing out a date? What then? What would it mean if an actual date has already been proposed and expounded herein but you simply cannot see it in the scripture that has been posted?

In addition to what has been posted thus far, in my understanding, the second year of Darius is the commencement of the final week of the ten weeks prophecy found in Sefer Henok, (counting the weeks as years instead of yamim, though both ways are true). But you can go ahead and feel free to ignore this post and assume it wasn't even meant for you.