COVID-19 Vaccines Unsafe For Use In Humans

cow451

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Two words: Donald Trump.
EX President Trump received a COVID vaccine. Look how well he has done. OK, Maybe not the best example. Could the vaccine do neurological damage…..?:swoon:
 
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cow451

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Repeating the same nonsense over and over doesn't make it true, although I understand that method was favoured by Joseph Goebbels.
.
Thank you Mr. Godwin.
 
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sfs

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As I previously said, for the last 18 months, I've been gathering evidence.
And yet, after gathering all that evidence, you're unsure that the vaccines work, which suggests that whatever evidence you're gathering, it's of very poor quality. For example, you say things like this: "For some time now, I have been wondering if the vaccines really work. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Perhaps the reduction in deaths is simply a seasonal variation, as you would expect for a respiratory virus, same as flu deaths vary dramatically according to the season." Since vaccine efficacy is measured by comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated people at the same time, that statement reflects a total lack of understanding of how vaccines are tested.
What have you been doing for the last 18 months?
I've been working in a virology lab, analyzing data about SARS-CoV-2 and publishing papers on it, and I've been attending regular meetings with state and local departments of health, infectious disease researchers, and doctors. You've been reading anti-vax sites on the internet.
 
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Fantine

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I am one of the unlucky ones who lives in the midst of the biggest COVID outbreak in the country. The 76% of the people in my county who are unvaccinated bleat out the most unbelievable claptrap about the vaccine on Facebook.

A local hospital system in our community just required the vaccine of its employees--giving them a two-month window to get vaccinated before they are fired. These employees, many of whom are trained in medicine, nursing, or laboratory technology, trust baseless conspiracy theories instead of science.

If they were only harming themselves instead of imperiling our entire community, which will eventually force our governor, kicking and screaming, into mask regulations and shutdowns, I wouldn't care. We've tried to warn them, they should know better, they deserve what they get.

But they are harming all of us. I am scheduled to visit a sick family member in a state where common sense prevails (NY). Last year we missed my husband's stepmother's funeral because they wouldn't allow visitors from certain states. Will this happen next week when I try to visit my seriously ill brother, even though I am vaccinated and reality-based?

It makes me angry.
 
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ThisIsMe123

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Let's just lay this argument to rest as the consequences of not getting the vaccine far outweigh that of those who DO get the vaccine.

Recent stats show that most deaths and hospitalizations among the unvaccinated far outnumber than those who are currently fully vaccinated, typically via the dreaded Delta variant.

There are those that were unvaccinated that now regret not getting it because they caught the Covid and now say, "I didn't know!" or whatever. Kind of hard to feel sorry for them now.

So those here who refuse the vaccine, if you get the Delta variant, you'll later regret it like the ones who thought like you.

I'm not sure why this is even up for argument anymore.
 
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ThisIsMe123

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Yes ... preventing infection is easier and simpler and less distressing on the body ... then fighting infection once it sets in.

Exactly, even if you recover from Covid, you'll never be at full capacity again.
 
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GOD Shines Forth!

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Exactly, even if you recover from Covid, you'll never be at full capacity again.

I had it and am working a very physical job. I think some of the "long hauler" stuff is a consequence of isolation and mental stress.
 
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sfs

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I had it and am working a very physical job. I think some of the "long hauler" stuff is a consequence of isolation and mental stress.
Lots of people -- most people -- make a full recovery fairly quickly. Quite a few don't. And it's clearly a result of covid-19, since people during the same time period under the same kind of mental stress who have gotten other respiratory infections don't have lingering symptoms at anywhere near the same rate.
 
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ThisIsMe123

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If you want to get a pretty good education on long haulers, here's Doctor John Campell, around the 17 min mark or a bit earlier...he has someone come in and talk about his deblitating issue with Chronic Fatigue, now called ME. Myalgic encephalomyelitis

There can be some parallels that can be drawn to other currently existing diseases that can be debilitating for some.

 
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GOD Shines Forth!

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Lots of people -- most people -- make a full recovery fairly quickly. Quite a few don't. And it's clearly a result of covid-19, since people during the same time period under the same kind of mental stress who have gotten other respiratory infections don't have lingering symptoms at anywhere near the same rate.

I said some.
 
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ThisIsMe123

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Lots of people -- most people -- make a full recovery fairly quickly. Quite a few don't. And it's clearly a result of covid-19, since people during the same time period under the same kind of mental stress who have gotten other respiratory infections don't have lingering symptoms at anywhere near the same rate.

Well, if you want specific data: Taken from the Dr John Campbell

1 in 80 unvaccinated going into long covid (This is very much a lot)

Currently, 500 people per day getting infected

Plus 200 than have been vaccinated

50,000 cases per day would result I ==1,000 LONG covid per day ==

Last year 180,000 people with at least 3 months of symptoms

Those numbers are concerning among the unvaccinated...so take heed.
 
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JustSomeBloke

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statistics.png
Case numbers are fairly meaningless. A case could be someone who has a dry cough for a few days, or someone who has no symptoms at all, but tested positive. What matters most is how many people are dying, and the article I posted indicates that the vaccine trials can't tell us if the vaccines are any use in that respect.

And yet, after gathering all that evidence, you're unsure that the vaccines work, which suggests that whatever evidence you're gathering, it's of very poor quality. For example, you say things like this: "For some time now, I have been wondering if the vaccines really work. Maybe they do, maybe they don't. Perhaps the reduction in deaths is simply a seasonal variation, as you would expect for a respiratory virus, same as flu deaths vary dramatically according to the season." Since vaccine efficacy is measured by comparing vaccinated and unvaccinated people at the same time, that statement reflects a total lack of understanding of how vaccines are tested.
0/10 for totally failing to address the article I posted.
 
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sesquiterpene

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Case numbers are fairly meaningless.
Really you seem to have problems grasping numbers in general. As sfs pointed out, you claim to have been studying Covid-19 for 128 months, but don't have any understanding of the vaccine(s) efficacy at all. I'd suggest you take up another hobby, one you can actually do. Crocheting, maybe?
 
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ThisIsMe123

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Case numbers are fairly meaningless. A case could be someone who has a dry cough for a few days, or someone who has no symptoms at all, but tested positive. What matters most is how many people are dying, and the article I posted indicates that the vaccine trials can't tell us if the vaccines are any use in that respect.


0/10 for totally failing to address the article I posted.

That's because the article is outdated. Oct 2020. Before the vaccines were distributed With what's going on, you really need to stay current.

This articles is only referring to the trials , not real world usage.
 
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sfs

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Case numbers are fairly meaningless. A case could be someone who has a dry cough for a few days, or someone who has no symptoms at all, but tested positive. What matters most is how many people are dying, and the article I posted indicates that the vaccine trials can't tell us if the vaccines are any use in that respect.
"Adjusted estimates of vaccine effectiveness at 7 days or longer after the second dose were 95·3% ... against SARS-CoV-2 infection, 91·5% ... against asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection, 97·0% ... against symptomatic COVID-19, 97·2% ... against COVID-19-related hospitalisation, 97·5% ... against severe or critical COVID-19-related hospitalisation, and 96·7% ... against COVID-19-related death." That's for the Pfizer vaccine in Israel, from here
 
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JustSomeBloke

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"Adjusted estimates of vaccine effectiveness at 7 days or longer after the second dose were 95·3% ... against SARS-CoV-2 infection, 91·5% ... against asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection, 97·0% ... against symptomatic COVID-19, 97·2% ... against COVID-19-related hospitalisation, 97·5% ... against severe or critical COVID-19-related hospitalisation, and 96·7% ... against COVID-19-related death." That's for the Pfizer vaccine in Israel, from here
Didn't you look at the author list for that paper?

There are a total of 15 authors. And of those 15 authors:
Seven work at the Ministry of Health in Israel
Eight work for Pfizer

So approximately half work for an Israeli government agency responsible for encouraging people to receive vaccinations, and the other half are pharmaceuticals employees.


Didn't you look at the role of the funding source?

Role of the funding source
The Israel MoH and Pfizer separately provided in-kind support to this study. No funding was exchanged between the Israel MoH and Pfizer. MoH and Pfizer were involved in the study design and writing of the report, and approved the decision to submit for publication.


Didn't you look at the declaration of interests?

Declaration of interests
FJA, JMM, FK, GM, KP, JS, DLS, and LJ hold stock and stock options in Pfizer. All other authors declare no competing interests.
 
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KCfromNC

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Didn't you look at the author list for that paper?

There are a total of 15 authors. And of those 15 authors:
Seven work at the Ministry of Health in Israel
Eight work for Pfizer

So approximately half work for an Israeli government agency responsible for encouraging people to receive vaccinations, and the other half are pharmaceuticals employees.


Didn't you look at the role of the funding source?

Role of the funding source
The Israel MoH and Pfizer separately provided in-kind support to this study. No funding was exchanged between the Israel MoH and Pfizer. MoH and Pfizer were involved in the study design and writing of the report, and approved the decision to submit for publication.


Didn't you look at the declaration of interests?

Declaration of interests
FJA, JMM, FK, GM, KP, JS, DLS, and LJ hold stock and stock options in Pfizer. All other authors declare no competing interests.

That's nice. Now, with all of that out of the way, all you need to do is provide data which shows that their numbers are incorrect. Otherwise this is just an attempt to divert away from that data using baseless personal attacks.
 
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sfs

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Didn't you look at the author list for that paper?
Didn't you look at the data? I thought you were collecting evidence?
So approximately half work for an Israeli government agency responsible for encouraging people to receive vaccinations
No, they work for the government agency responsible for improving public health. They are only responsible for encouraging people to receive vaccinations if the vaccines work. This bizarre idea you have that governments all over the world are conspiring to lie to make vaccines look good is delusional.

In any case, from this study from the US: "mRNA vaccines were 96% (95%CI: 95 — 99) effective at preventing Covid-19 related hospitalization and 98.7% (95%CI: 91.0 — 99.8) effective at preventing Covid- 19 related death when participants were fully vaccinated."
 
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JustSomeBloke

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Didn't you look at the data? I thought you were collecting evidence?
Yes, I do. And I apply a critical, sceptical eye, as all good scientists should.

No, they work for the government agency responsible for improving public health. They are only responsible for encouraging people to receive vaccinations if the vaccines work. This bizarre idea you have that governments all over the world are conspiring to lie to make vaccines look good is delusional.
The government vaccine pushers are responsible for assessing vaccine effectiveness. It's one of those fox-in-charge-of-hen-house situations.

In any case, from this study from the US: "mRNA vaccines were 96% (95%CI: 95 — 99) effective at preventing Covid-19 related hospitalization and 98.7% (95%CI: 91.0 — 99.8) effective at preventing Covid- 19 related death when participants were fully vaccinated."
I'm sorry to say that doesn't look like a robust piece of research. We know that the proportion of people who are hospitalised or die of covid is very small. From that point of view, the sample size to get statistically valid results needs to be very, very large. And although 91,000 might sound like a lot of trial participants, for the purposes of evaluating a covid vaccine's effectiveness at preventing death, it probably isn't sufficient.

You appear to be just blindly searching for and posting up any scientific paper that supports your pro-vaxx dogma, without stopping to consider if it might be valid and robust. A good scientist needs to take a more sceptical view, and use knowledge from other sources to determine if what they are reading is likely to be reliable and true.

Furthermore, real-world, non-trial data on deaths in the vaccinated and unvaccinated seems to suggest that the vaccines have little to no effect on deaths. You might find it helpful to read my other thread, where I look at this.
 
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