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If the apostles did this, we would all be lost in our sin as would the rest of the world.
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If the apostles did this, we would all be lost in our sin as would the rest of the world.Just forgive and not to worry about others. We are only responsible for our own actions.
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Does love dictate if you are really married? The answer is the same. Does a piece of paper make one really married? If one thinks one can be saved and has no oto love Christ, one has to ask if that is not a good description of "depart from me, I never knew you" that Jesus spoke about. Those who merely want out of hell with no desire to love God are on shakey ground at best. Might not be standing on any ground at worst. These who think they are saved but have no love for God or man need to examine themselves "to see if they are indeed in the faith" in the words of Paul, IMHO. Better now than when it is too late.Does love dictate if you are saved? Is salvation directly proportionate to love?
Does it matter what name we call it? If we do not forgive others, we will not be forgiven. Are those not forgiven of their sins admitting into the Father's house? This is the bigger question, not what name we decide to give it. God is not obligated to honor the names we assign to matters.Is unforgiveness a sin? Yes or no? Does it apply to Christians? Yes or no?
The point i was making was the more we love Christ is not the same as the more we are saved.Does love dictate if you are really married? The answer is the same. Does a piece of paper make one really married? If one thinks one can be saved and has no oto love Christ, one has to ask if that is not a good description of "depart from me, I never knew you" that Jesus spoke about. Those who merely want out of hell with no desire to love God are on shakey ground at best. Might not be standing on any ground at worst. These who think they are saved but have no love for God or man need to examine themselves "to see if they are indeed in the faith" in the words of Paul, IMHO. Better now than when it is too late.
Can you please not interrupt this thread by introducing Catholic problems. No one much seems to want to respond to it, by the way, not that they are unprepared to do so. (That, btw, is pretty haughty assuming that we cannot do so because we do not want to do so.)I posted this on another forum but no one there was prepared to respond to it.
From what I understand, Vatican II has reaffirmed all the statements of the Council of Trent.
This means that:
1. All those who have faith in Christ alone for salvation are subject to anathema (condemned to hell) by the Catholic Church.
2. Indulgences (paying money to the Church to get loved ones out of Purgatory) is still in force and anyone who denies it are also subject to anathema (condemned to hell).
The implication to this is that every Protestant, Evangelical, Pentecostal, and Charismatic Christian who depends on Christ alone for salvation and does not hold with Indulgences is automatically condemned to hell according to the Catholic Church.
This means that every Catholic priest, bishop, cardinal, and even the Pope has to fully abide by that teaching, because if they deny it, then they must be excommunicated and condemned to hell themselves.
I don't think that the Catholic Church really wants to make that public knowledge, because who among those who are Protestant, Evangelical, Pentecostal, or Charismatic, would be happy with fellowshipping with those who have that teaching?
How do you know if they are possibly on shaky ground? Only God knows who is saved or not.Does love dictate if you are really married? The answer is the same. Does a piece of paper make one really married? If one thinks one can be saved and has no oto love Christ, one has to ask if that is not a good description of "depart from me, I never knew you" that Jesus spoke about. Those who merely want out of hell with no desire to love God are on shakey ground at best. Might not be standing on any ground at worst. These who think they are saved but have no love for God or man need to examine themselves "to see if they are indeed in the faith" in the words of Paul, IMHO. Better now than when it is too late.
When you really love Christ deeply as Paul and Peter and John did, you cease to think about your own salvation much at all. Did they ever write about how happy (or some other adjective) that they personally were saved? If they mentioned at all, it I recall it to be in a group designation, that is, WE are saved, not I am saved.The point i was making was the more we love Christ is not the same as the more we are saved.
You can get married without love.
He also eats the meat and not the milk.When you really love Christ deeply as Paul and Peter and John did, you cease to think about your own salvation much at all. Did they ever write about how happy (or some other adjective) that they personally were saved? If they mentioned at all, it I recall it to be in a group designation, that is, WE are saved, not I am saved.
Paul's heart desire was to know Christ, not how great it was that he is saved. Read the volume of what he wrote and his feelings for himself being saved have few references if any. And the guarantee of such or Christ doing it all or that he is going to Heaven for sure are not to be found. There are references to him "beating his body" lest he find himself to be "disqualified."
Did I name names? When preachers talk to those in the crowd who do not know Jesus, does anyone stand up and challenge him with "how do you know if they are possibly not saved" as though he shouldn't preach such things.How do you know if they are possibly on shaky ground? Only God knows who is saved or not.
Many old Christians drink the milk too. Sometimes they put chocolate in it for variety and make it taste even better.He also eats the meat and not the milk.
Many new Christians drink the milk.
There's been a lot of water under the bridge since the Reformation, with many generations of people being raised within the Protestant fold. This in itself changes the way the RCC views Protestantism today. The Church actually accepts most Protestants as Christian, while Protestant commentators, confessions, theologians, individuals, or denominations may or may not hold the same sentiment towards the Catholic Church. Either way, to understand the Church's position on this matter now it would be best to read the Vat II docs for oneself:The anathema in 1 Corinthians 16:22 denotes simply that they who love not the Lord are rightly objects of loathing and execration to all holy beings; they are guilty of a crime that merits the severest condemnation; they are exposed to the just sentence of "everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord."
I believe that this was the position of the RCC at the Council of Trent, ratified by Vatican II, and is till the current policy of the Church toward those who have faith in Christ alone for salvation. They might like to water it down and pretty it up so as not to offend non-Catholics, but the policy still holds as true as what it always has been for them.
This is a controversial theology forum and the title of the thread is "conditional salvation". My post is consistent with both the controversial nature of it and conditional salvation from a Catholic point of view. I guess that no one seems to want to respond to it because they know about the Catholic position already.Can you please not interrupt this thread by introducing Catholic problems. No one much seems to want to respond to it, by the way, not that they are unprepared to do so. (That, btw, is pretty haughty assuming that we cannot do so because we do not want to do so.)
Yes, although I understand that the Council of Trent was a very sharp response to Luther's increasing influence on the German Church, I agree that during and after Vatican II there certainly has been a softening toward other denominations and more of a willingness to concentrate on the things that unite us rather than those that divide us.There's been a lot of water under the bridge since the Reformation, with many generations of people being raised within the Protestant fold. This in itself changes the way the RCC views Protestantism today. The Church actually accepts most Protestants as Christian, while Protestant commentators, confessions, theologians, individuals, or denominations may or may not hold the same sentiment towards the Catholic Church. Either way, to understand the Church's position on this matter now it would be best to read the Vat II docs for oneself:
Unitatis redintegratio
Is unforgiveness a sin? Yes or no? Does it apply to Christians? Yes or no?
Vatican II did not abolish anything that was decided as the principles of the Council of Trent, therefore they are still in force. Therefore, the anathema statements in the Council of Trent report are still in force.
Really? The Bible names specific sins. Unforgiveness results in no forgiveness.Does it matter what name we call it? If we do not forgive others, we will not be forgiven. Are those not forgiven of their sins admitting into the Father's house? This is the bigger question, not what name we decide to give it. God is not obligated to honor the names we assign to matters.
Then by all means look it up.What are you talking about? I never heard the word before.
That is correct. But where does the Bible say unforgiveness is a sin?Really? The Bible names specific sins. Unforgiveness results in no forgiveness.
Actually I asked a question, a particular question. Your post had nothing to do with the question. I did not start a discussion on conditional salvation. I asked about unforgiveness. Most Protestants I know do not like discussion anything Catholic with Catholics. There is a blindness and Devotion to the Pope that defys logical discussion, hence it is fruitless.This is a controversial theology forum and the title of the thread is "conditional salvation". My post is consistent with both the controversial nature of it and conditional salvation from a Catholic point of view. I guess that no one seems to want to respond to it because they know about the Catholic position already.
It is always better to kick the ball rather than the player.
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