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CNN runs segment proving gun violence is down

Discussion in 'OBOB General Politics Forum' started by AMDG, Jun 18, 2014.

  1. Armoured

    Armoured So is America great again yet? Supporter

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    *eyeroll*
     
  2. Armoured

    Armoured So is America great again yet? Supporter

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    So, what, you're hoping for a retraction? :D
     
  3. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

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    Actually, they can be transported out of state. There are enthusiast shoots and shows for legally-owned machineguns all over the place.

    Also, $3000 is less than 10% of the average yearly income for a person. Do you know what quality firearms cost when the 2nd Ammendment was penned? More than that.


    Their cost is Reagan's fault. Complain to his party and tell them to repeal his unjust restriction. Full auto Mac 10s were $300 before Reagan ruined everything. Drop-in auto sears for AR-15s were like $20.

    ....except apparently machine guns, because they were used far less often in crime after 1934 than before.


    Uh, yes, you most certainly can. Almost all of the parts between an M16 and an AR-15 are interchangable. Barrels, stocks, magazines, sights, heck, the entire upper receiver. You need to stop spreading false information.

    Can you please type a whole paragraph without resorting to dishonest manipulation? The vast majority of firearm murders do not happen in "gun free" locations, they happen in homes, followed by the open air.
     
  4. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

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    Oh, I know better than that. I know what the Church teaches about honesty and I know what the Church teaches about firearms legislation in the. United States. I elect to try to submit to Christ's Holy will, shared with us through His Church. I understand that some who claim to worship Him will reject His Church in favor of their own political passions. All we can do is fight inaccurate statements with truth and political partisanship with the teachings of Christ's Church.
     
  5. AMDG

    AMDG Tenderized for Christ

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    When the monthly starting salary (in this area) is like $850 (and from that take taxes, unemployment insurance, and what-not) that's like four months that a person has to live on air to scrape up enough money for that ATF stamp alone (and where is the money for the firearm?) Okay next county over starting salaries are like $1000, so there's a little more wiggle-room, but still that's about three months living without food, water, shelter for something that isn't easily gotten. BTW $200 in the '30s during the Great Depression WAS a lot of money, considering that folks would often try to even sell pencils on street corners to be able to afford some watered-down milk for their hungry children. Riiight. The cost didn't price automatics out of the realm of ownership by the regular citizens.

    As far as taking an ATF registered weapon (automatics, short-barreled rifles, short-barreled shotguns) out of the state for a national show, you should be honest enough to let your crowd of fans know that it requires about six-month in advance PERMISSION from the ATF, that IS if you happen to be law abiding. If not, nothing will keep you from getting anything and taking it anywhere--no laws, no restrictions, no regulations. There are laws on the books, law enforcement just needs to enforce them--not make more to ignore.

    And yes, firearms can be made from scratch. It's not just the gun manufacturers that can do this. Guns can even be made in the modern 3-D copiers out of plastic! And the guy who did it also showed how the firearm fired--it did!

    And about those "gun free" zones. Well let's see, schools are gun-free zones. What happened in Connecticut? Did the boy who gunned down those unprotected children with weapons he STOLE pay attention to the sign that stated that? How about the guy in Aurora movie theater. He went out of his way to SPECIFICALLY chose a gun-free theater to do his killing. The Church killing that was only stopped because one person was carrying--the rest of the congregation were "sitting ducks". How about that restaurant in Lubbock, Texas (years back) which was also gun-free. Twenty some odd people shot and killed, including one woman's mother and father who had just celebrated their 43rd anniversary. Their daughter said that she wished she had had her firearm with her, that she would rather be sitting in jail with her parents alive than to have them both dead. What about the recent restaurants that chose to be gun-free? Robbed three times in a few days from trumpeting the news that they were going to go unprotected. The women in Colorado who had been raped testifying that if it wouldn't have happened if they had been allowed to protect themselves on campus? After all, a gun is a great equalizer. With a gun a 80 year old granny (or even a young girl) can "stand her ground" against a strong young criminal who simply wants to hurt her.

    Perhaps it is YOU who needs to stop spreading false information.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
  6. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

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    The monthly starting salary in your area is less than the federal minimum wage for a 40 hour a week job?
     
  7. AMDG

    AMDG Tenderized for Christ

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    The Federal is for Federal jobs. With employment, a salary is offered and the person decides if he wants to take it or not. This county has a less expensive cost of living--its affordable (Thank God).
     
  8. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

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    A gross monthly wage of $850 for a full time employee is not legal. You might consider using the median household salary of $51k+ per year to demonstrate just how unreasonable the $200 tax is. Of course, it doesn't have to cost $200 to register future weapons. Pen guns and cane guns only cost $5 to register. That would be fine for all guns.

    You need to fill out form 5320 and submit it in order to take such a weapon across State lines. You do not have to wait for a response. Who is filling your head with this nonsense? It is a notification, not a request.

    Existing laws are impossible to effectively enforce without registration, that's why the Church calls for it.

    So?

    This rant that fails to address the fact that a low % of firearms murders take place in gun free zones demonstrates your frustration that the facts are not on your side. I am not arguing for more or less gun free zones, I am agreeing with Christ's Church that supporting stronger gun laws without taking guns from the law-abiding is the pro-life thing to do.

    . I don't believe I've said a factually untrue thing in this conversation. If I have I will be happy to retract and correct it, because that is what good, honorable, honest people do.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
  9. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

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    That is absolutely false.

    Fun fact! The State of Washington has the 13th highest median household income at $56k/year.

    Washington state: 13th-highest median income at $56K - Puget Sound Business Journal

    The minimum wage allowed by Federal law is $7.35 an hour. In Washington State it is $9.32 an hour. Curiously, although the State has a higher-than-required minimum wage, the cost of living for you remains low. You're tripping over your own talking points.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2014
  10. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

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    You are wrong about this. The Federal Minimum Wage covers all employees in the United States. It is not simply for Federal Employees.
     
  11. Armoured

    Armoured So is America great again yet? Supporter

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    You assume you're dealing with someone in touch with the actual world as it is, rather than firmly in the Cunningham's household where Tom Bosley fixes every problem in half an hour.
     
  12. AMDG

    AMDG Tenderized for Christ

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    Back to the CLAIM that its the NRA that wants criminals to have guns. Here's something from an article about why Diane Feinstein wants to infringe on the Second Amendment:

    "the reality is that criminals and terrorists don't buy their guns "legally" anyway. So introducing legislation that would prohibit law-abiding citizens from owning handguns and rifles, especially what Feinstein calls "assault weapons with high capacity magazines," is not aimed at those she claims to want to restrict guns from (which we never gave the Federal Government authority to do in the first place)."


    Read more at The Real Reason Dianne Feinstein is Obsessed with Taking All Your Guns : Freedom Outpost

    It's like I have been saying, criminals will not be effected by the infringing upon the Second Amendment. They will STILL get all the firearms that they want. The only ones that will have their rights taken away is the law abiding citizen. The NRA has nothing to do with it.
     
  13. Armoured

    Armoured So is America great again yet? Supporter

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    Yep. Criminals and terrorists get guns whether legal or not, so why have gun laws at all?
     
  14. wondrousgnat

    wondrousgnat Newbie

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    So far I have never seen any law supported or any proposed by the NRA to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Speaking of Diane Feinstein is dodging the issue.
     
  15. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

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    That's the "logic" that is being presented here. An honest person who believed that criminals won't obey gun control laws so we don't need those laws would also believe that other laws which are broken anyway by criminals shouldn't exist. Sadly, if you're looking for logical consistency and intellectual honesty you've come to the wrong place. They are not in season it seems.
     
  16. AMDG

    AMDG Tenderized for Christ

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    Criminals and terrorists will get their guns (and whatever else their black hearts desire) regardless of the infringement on others rights. All disarming law abiding citzens will do is make the job of the criminals (killing and terrorizing innocents) easier. Now why would any person want to do that? Some sort of an agreement with the criminals? If that is the case, what makes anyone think that criminals will keep their part of the bargain and not simply "let loose" on the disarmed populace? They are criminals remember? They don't pay any mind to laws and regulations (they laugh at them) and can make what they want, get it on the black market (or perhaps Holder will give out weapons again), or just plain steal what they want.

    Besides that any honest thinking person realizes that a gun is simply a tool. They cannot act by themselves. It's the PEOPLE that use these tools for ways they were not intended. Many tools can be used to kill. What shall we ban next? Cars? Knives? (Spoons--since they can be sharpened into knives?) All cutting objects? Poisons--even pest control ones? (Must ban all medicines too because those are poison.) Hammers? Any blunt object? Fertilizer? (That's how the Oklahoma City bomber made his bombs.) All chemicals? (I know that I must be careful even in cleaning house because a chemical reaction can accidentally be made if I don't watch what I'm doing.) Swimming pools and bathtubs? (Since more deaths are caused by that?) Airplanes? (Hey! They have been used to kill.) Don't forget to ban the 3-D copiers (firearms already HAVE been made that way.) And we can go on and on.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
  17. MikeK

    MikeK Traditionalist Catholic

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    Speaking of honesty, nobody in this discussion has suggested "disarming law abiding citizens".

    I find it hilarious that there are people who believe that requiring registration of firearms (like our Bishops call for) will keep law abiding, sane people from exercising their right to bear arms but that requiring a Federal ID will not keep legal voters from voting.
     
  18. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

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    Last year there were 32,000 gun related deaths in the US. Do any of those other things come close to that number? Sure, we CAN list everything that can kill a person, such as a popcorn kernel caught in the throat, but how about we show actual cold numbers instead?
     
  19. wondrousgnat

    wondrousgnat Newbie

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    That yearly total is a greater number than those killed throughout the Gulf War so why should we care about the soldiers?

    If some people speed and run lights than why should we have traffic lights and speed limits? More and more are opposing them anyway.
     
  20. LoAmmi

    LoAmmi Dispassionate

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    You can care about both, they aren't exclusive. But when someone's listing bathtubs along with guns in terms of killing power, they are off the rails. Pretty much everybody uses the bathtub (or shower) on an almost daily basis and the percentage of people who die because of it is well, well under %.01.
     
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