CNN runs segment proving gun violence is down

mark46

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So, you think that someone coming to terrorize a school carrying a knife is as dangerous as someone carrying a semi-automatic gun?

Let's be serious.
======

You think that you have the same chance of surviving an attack by someone with a gun as from someone with a knife.

Let's be serious.

So? The dead victims of either are....DEAD. Then there are other methods of killing--car, poison--slow or fast, drowning, even asphyxiation by strangulation, hammer, blunt object (of course in a pinch fists or the heel of the hand used to drive bone into brain, or maybe a sturdy shoe used to kick with will do), heard of a chain saw in Britain being used, bombing gets to claim many lives (the Oklahoma City bomber used fertilizer to make his bombs), arson (fire), heard of even airplanes being used to ram into buildings, and have also heard of folks dying from being tasered. In fact, more people DIE in freak accidents in the bathtub than in firearm deaths.
 
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AMDG

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Gotta agree with you when you say that the increased violence is causing good people to purchase firearms. Of course we part agreement there. I think it's because the good citizens are listening to their SHERIFFS who have taken an oath to uphold the Constitution (and actually not only intend to, but are DOING so.)

Decent people need to help the over-extended police and help protect themselves. "When seconds counts, the police are minutes--maybe hours away" isn't just a saying anymore, it's reality. Criminals will ALWAYS get firearms (heck our government GAVE them firearms no questions asked). If firearms are taken away from law-abiding citizens it would be as if a welcome sign was hung out at every house--"Welcome criminal, for your convenience the good silver is in the cupboard in the dining room, our safe has been left open, my attractive teenage daughter's bedroom is at the top of the stairs (and if you aren't into that, her teenage brother's room is across the hall) and oh, since we are all unarmed, you can shoot us at will with no thought of any harm coming to yourself. Enjoy yourselves."
 
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wondrousgnat

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My question, as always, was left unanswered


Also my picture window was once taken out by a driveby shooter. And while working, I was a mailman, I was shot at twice by an unknown shooter (as was at least one other coworker). In no case could I have defended myself even with an M-60.
 
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MikeK

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MikeK

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It's always interesting when people pull up statistics because I have to bring up other facts that can make people feel uncomfortable because they have been taught to feel a certain way even though what they know and observe is different.

The US will have for the near future very skewed statistics based on our western counterparts because we have a larger former slave population that is massively disproportionately violent. Ghettos, 'urban culture', their music is plagued with violence and thuggery.

Blacks are responsible for the majority of murders in the US. Yes, 52.5%. They make up 12-13% of the population and account for over half of murders. That's huge.

This has nothing to do with race, but the culture that developed as a result of slavery, racism, and oppression. I am sure someone will or wants to respond to me telling me I am all wrong, but they know they would never pull over into an East Saint Louis gas station, wander around Detroit, south Chicago, the wards of Houston, and most of New Orleans at night, or even the day for that matter.

The US also has a land border with Latin America, also responsible for large crime elements. People cannot walk from central America to the UK.

Latinos make up the largest group of gang members, followed by blacks. Despite the fact the whites are the majority.

If you were to exclude the differences between the US and the Europe, you'll find no differences. People can get upset when one talks like this because they cannot disassociate race with culture. The US has higher crime rates because we have groups that Europe does not have.
This rambling is your response to being informed that your statement of "Originally Posted by New Legacy
Guns also keep people safe. It is why people will break into homes when people are inside in the UK. It's while the UK has high rates of muggings."
Was grossly errant. Thank the nice man who educated you, that you might no longer spread falsehoods. Come, live in the light!

That blacks have the fewest opportunities and commit violent crimes at a higher rate than other races in the US does nothing to change the facts that our rates of violent crime are remarkably high. In fact, if you removed the 52% of murders you claim blacks are responsible for, the US would STILL have a higher murder rate than many of our wonderful peers on this planet. Let us all band together, acknowledge the wisdom of Christ's Church which is calling for reasonable gun gun control laws in the USA that still allow private citizens to own firearms without undue hassle.
 
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AMDG

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So, you think that someone coming to terrorize a school carrying a knife is as dangerous as someone carrying a semi-automatic gun?

Let's be serious.
======

You think that you have the same chance of surviving an attack by someone with a gun as from someone with a knife.

Let's be serious.

You are right, let's be serious. The last shooting (where the boy was disconnected from society but upset because he wasn't "getting it on") was by knife (3 people killed), car (dozens injured) and firearm (3 people killed) another in a Pennsylvania school was another knife attack with a couple killed but many just injured, believe there was another knife attack at a school which was bad--it was in China. In Britain, at a pub, a chain-saw was used. Yikes! Firearms aren't the only thing that can kill (and kill a bunch of folks all at once). There have been bombs used, fire (man's helper), even airplanes.

And yes, I'd rather take my chances with being shot than with even being tazered (going to get that spelling right one day, but that can even disrupt heart rhythms and so kill outright.) I guess you didn't hear about the criminal who chased a mother with twins up into her attic. She emptied a handgun at him--six shots. Five of the bullets hit their target and so convinced him to leave. Police found him 1/4 mile away, passed out but living. (More than I can say for the mother and the twins IF the guy had managed to get them.)
 
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AMDG

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Seems there's a question about who is spreading the false info.

Perhaps this will help (or maybe the FBI report will work--not sure.)

Firearms Accidents Even Rarer Than Hen's Teeth | The Truth About Guns

This one is about guns vs. pools and notes that deaths in pools or by drowning are 100 times more likely than a death by a firearm:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1421386/posts

Here is that quote about more children dying in bathtub accidents. It's by Thomas Sowell:

http://www.creators.com/conservative/thomas-sowell/guns-save-lives.html
 
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MikeK

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Seems there's a question about who is spreading the false info.

Perhaps this will help (or maybe the FBI report will work--not sure.)

Firearms Accidents Even Rarer Than Hen's Teeth | The Truth About Guns

This one is about guns vs. pools and notes that deaths in pools or by drowning are 100 times more likely than a death by a firearm:

Which of these is a greater danger? (GUNS vs. Pools)

Here is that quote about more children dying in bathtub accidents. It's by Thomas Sowell:

Guns Save Lives by Thomas Sowell on Creators.com - A Syndicate Of Talent

Your false statement, which I corrected, was: Originally Posted by AMDG
In fact, more people DIE in freak accidents in the bathtub than in firearm deaths.


That is absolutely a false statement. You respond to your gross error being corrected by moving goalposts and referencing only firearms accidents instead of firearms deaths. You even elect to quote a man who is so dishonest and partisan that he resorts to comparing death rates per children by number of pools vs number of guns instead of sheer numbers. He is lying with statistics.

Let's be pro-life! I invite you to embrace the Truths given to us by Christ's Holy Church and join Her in calling for reasonable, life saving legislation including registration and background checks on private sales.
 
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MikeK

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Seems there's a question about who is spreading the false info.

Perhaps this will help (or maybe the FBI report will work--not sure.)

Firearms Accidents Even Rarer Than Hen's Teeth | The Truth About Guns

This one is about guns vs. pools and notes that deaths in pools or by drowning are 100 times more likely than a death by a firearm:

Which of these is a greater danger? (GUNS vs. Pools)

Here is that quote about more children dying in bathtub accidents. It's by Thomas Sowell:

Guns Save Lives by Thomas Sowell on Creators.com - A Syndicate Of Talent

Your false statement, which I corrected, was: Originally Posted by AMDG
In fact, more people DIE in freak accidents in the bathtub than in firearm deaths.


That is absolutely a false statement. You respond to your gross error being corrected by moving goalposts and referencing only firearms accidents instead of firearms deaths. You even elect to quote a man who is so dishonest and partisan that he resorts to comparing death rates per children by number of pools vs number of guns instead of sheer numbers. He is lying with statistics.

Let's be pro-life! I invite you to embrace the Truths given to us by Christ's Holy Church and join Her in calling for reasonable, life saving legislation including registration, safe storage laws, and background checks on private sales.
 
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AMDG

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I moved no goal posts as you say. I simply posted SEVERAL articles from VARIOUS sources that show that death from firearms is less than other methods of death--in this case drowning. And the last article I posted is where the quote came from.

Any person with an OUNCE of intelligence knows that the firearm is only a tool. It cannot act all by itself. It needs to have a person using it. PEOPLE are the cause of violence, not the tools that they may use.

Also removing people's ability to defend themselves, their loved ones--not to mention the vulnerable (Defense is a DUTY mentioned in the CCC as actually being respectful of life) is only helping the criminals to do their dirtiest toward the innocent. Criminals DO NOT abide by laws, restrictions, and regulations.
 
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MikeK

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The gun control laws that tr Catholic Church calls on us to support do not restrict the ability of law-abiding gun owners to defend themselves. You are addressing a wholesale firearms ban which nobody here is proposing. That is dishonest.

You are comparing numbers of accidental gun deaths to tub deaths but then concluding that there are more tub deaths than total gun deaths. That is dishonest and, as I showed, grossly inaccurate. Come, live in the light of whole truths and submit completely to the pro-life will of Christ's Holy Church.
 
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wondrousgnat

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The NRA opposes background checks. The NRA opposes gun registration. The NRA opposes limitations on the number of gun purchases at a time. The NRA opposes limitations on the number of rounds. The NRA opposes limitations on automatic weapons. Unless someone can show any evidence that the NRA actually does want to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals I can come to only one conclusion: that in spite of the rhetoric the NRA really does want guns in the hands of criminals.
 
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AMDG

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The NRA opposes background checks. The NRA opposes gun registration. The NRA opposes limitations on the number of gun purchases at a time. The NRA opposes limitations on the number of rounds. The NRA opposes limitations on automatic weapons. Unless someone can show any evidence that the NRA actually does want to keep weapons out of the hands of criminals I can come to only one conclusion: that in spite of the rhetoric the NRA really does want guns in the hands of criminals.

You mean MORE background checks and restrictions and regulations that ALREADY are on the books. In fact, if the ones on the books were complied with there would be no need of screams of folks to violate the Second Amendment.

And automatic weapons have been virtually banned (by background checks, too high a cost just to get a license not to mention too high a cost to even obtain an automatic) since the 1930s--1934 to be exact. (In fact there was found a shipment of 1930s fully automatic firearms--"Tommy" guns. The find was worth thousands not to mention the historical value of the weapons from a bygone era. Sad thing each of the historical pieces had to be cut in half in order to be returned to this country. It rendered them worthless historically, and financially.

And as for the NRA wanting criminals to have firearms because they object to even MORE infringing of our Second Amendment rights (even MORE regulations and restrictions than there ALREADY are) think. Since when is a CRIMINAL stopped by regulations from doing anything he pleases. He's a CRIMINAL for Pete's Sake. He doesn't care. The only ones that care are the poor law abiding citizens that can no longer defend themselves in the face of the Criminals who will be armed to the teeth.

http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms/firearms-industry/national-firearms-act
 
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MikeK

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I bet the NRA opposed the 1975 ban on fully automatic weapons too.

I think you mean 1934 or 1986. In 1934 they were still a legitimate sporting organization rather than a fear-spreading lapdog of the Republican Party and firearms industry. They did support Reagan's 1986 ban because, hey, can't go biting the hand that feeds you.
 
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MikeK

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You mean MORE background checks and restrictions and regulations that ALREADY are on the books. In fact, if the ones on the books were complied with there would be no need of screams of folks to violate the Second Amendment.

And automatic weapons have been virtually banned (by background checks, too high a cost just to get a license not to mention too high a cost to even obtain an automatic) since the 1930s--1934 to be exact. (In fact there was found a shipment of 1930s fully automatic firearms--"Tommy" guns. The find was worth thousands not to mention the historical value of the weapons from a bygone era. Sad thing each of the historical pieces had to be cut in half in order to be returned to this country. It rendered them worthless historically, and financially.

And as for the NRA wanting criminals to have firearms because they object to even MORE infringing of our Second Amendment rights (even MORE regulations and restrictions than there ALREADY are) think. Since when is a CRIMINAL stopped by regulations from doing anything he pleases. He's a CRIMINAL for Pete's Sake. He doesn't care. The only ones that care are the poor law abiding citizens that can no longer defend themselves in the face of the Criminals who will be armed to the teeth.

National Firearms Act | ATF

1934's NFA did not place machine guns out of the hands of private citizens. In the mid 1980s full auto Uzis, AR-15s, Mac 11s and 10s and yes, Thompsons, were available and affordable. It was President Reagan signing the ban on additional registrations that put prices through the roof. Please consider learning the truth and spreading the truth instead of politicized distortions. The 1934 NFA is an example of just how effective registration can be at reducing crime. Throughout gangland, the tommygun reigned lead, right up until they had to be registered. Registration practically removed machine guns from the arsenals of criminals by allowing law enforcement to track them.
 
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wondrousgnat

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AMDG. You only mention laws that the NRA has opposed. Again you have made no reference to any proposal by the NRA to keep guns from criminals. It is becoming more and more a war zone out there. That is good for gun sales. And the NRA is a lobby group for the gun industry.

You dodge the question as to whether or not the NRA wants criminals to be able to get guns.
 
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AMDG

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snipped to portion addressed. Longer post above.

1934's NFA did not place machine guns out of the hands of private citizens.

When you consider that the stamp that had to be gotten to even obtain an automatic (those are the guns that spray bullets--a semi-automatic cannot) was $200 back then (in today's money it would be around $3000) PLUS the firearm would need to be registered with the ATF (and that means that it CAN'T be transported out of the state--even to show a family member who lives in the next state over) PLUS it takes at least five months to a year to get one of the stamps because of all the paperwork of the ATF checks (the application also has to be signed-off by the sheriff if I remember), not to mention that the automatics themselves are so expensive that only the rich can afford, that pretty much makes the automatic firearms cost prohibitive for the average citizen.

Consequently automatics are as few as hens teeth. (Can no longer transport them very easily, if at all, in or out of the country--that's why that found shipment of those "Tommy" guns FROM the U.S. to another country back before the National Firearms Act were destroyed instead of historically preserved when the shipment was returned to us.)

Criminals, however, can get anything their little black hearts desire. (They will even MAKE firearms from scratch--can't use the semi-automatics to make automatics, if that is what they want, the two are too different.) Criminals don't obey laws (that's why they are known as "criminals"). People who skirt the laws don't care how much other's rights are infringed upon or about the lives of others. It just makes the criminal's lives easier to disarm everyone else. (Haven't you noticed that they purposely kill innocents in "gun free" zones where folks can't protect themselves?)

And Wondrousgnat, that last paragraph is for you. The NRA was ESTABLISHED as a CIVIL RIGHTS organization by generals after the Civil War to keep the government from taking the Second Amendment rights away from our new citizens. The NRA has TAUGHT firearm safety programs in and out of schools, TAUGHT folks the proper way to handle a firearm, and insured that folks know their legal rights. They stand AGAINST criminals and FOR the regular citizen. You'll have to find another organization to smear.
 
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