CNN runs segment proving gun violence is down

[AMDG]

Professor Fox admits that it is down. (Let's see, that's the Pew report, the FBI, John Lott, expert on gun crime, and more.) Perhaps someone needs to inform the media to actually do their job instead of trying to drum up hysteria.

CNN Runs Segment Proving Gun Violence is Down » Eagle Rising

 

[Picky Picky]

Professor Fox admits that it is down. (Let's see, that's the Pew report, the FBI, John Lott, expert on gun crime, and more.) Perhaps someone needs to inform the media to actually do their job instead of trying to drum up hysteria.

CNN Runs Segment Proving Gun Violence is Down » Eagle Rising

Do gun control advocates say gun violence is "worse today than ever before"? I haven't heard that. I think it is common ground that violent crime has dropped during the last decade throughout first-world countries. The American problem is that the gun homicide rate has dropped from a level grotesquely higher than in other, comparable, countries and is therefore still grotesquely higher than in other, comparable, countries. There's no room for complacency, I suggest.

 

[AMDG]

Snipped to answer question. Longer post above.

Do gun control advocates say gun violence is "worse today than ever before"?

They do indeed. In a recently debunked Everytown's poll, they even claimed that there have been 74 school massacres since Sandy Hook. (There haven't been--that poll even took gang, drug, and suicide shootings late at night-- when children aren't even IN school or anywhere near the campus--to get their statistics. IMO it was only to terrify parents and separate them from clear thinking and total "knee-jerk" emotion and then act in panic.)

There were firearms in the past and there WAS no problem as far as everyone was concerned. Little children were not expelled from school for making a paper gun or biting a pop tart into the shape that MIGHT resemble a gun or for seeing a cloud in the sky shaped like a gun, or for having a father who is in the military and so "is a bad influence" because he actually USES a gun. It's unreal. As I said, years ago there were even shooting clubs in school (and children would bring the firearms they owned for the club ON THE SCHOOL BUSES but now we have schools as "gun free zones" and panic reigns even though even the FBI shows gun violence down.)

 

[mark46]

The number of abortions is also down. The number of violent crimes is down.

So?

There is no need to keep the mentally ill, criminals and children from have access to assault weapons and large magazines. The vast majority Americans believe that there should be verifications at purchase. It is much easier to kill more people with more powerful weapons with larger magazines.

And NO, this is NOT the current law. In most jurisdictions, anyone can go into a gun show and purchase an assault weapon, with no legal limits or restrictions.

The 2nd amendment does NOT guarantee the right of the mentally ill to have assault weapons with large magazines. You can say it does forever; that won't make it so.

And as far as I (me personally) is concerned, no one should be allowed to have a gun outside their home unless it is registered, which would require training.


The issue is NOT the right to bear arms. If you want the Swiss system of gun regulation, that would be fine with me. You have often pointed to their society as having a good attitude towards guns.

 

[wondrousgnat]

I live near Chicago. Last year there were almost 400 gun deaths. In the early 70s the numbers were around 970. So I see that as a definite drop.

The NRA has stated that they oppose criminals and insane being able to get guns. I do not know of any program or law that they support which would accomplish that. Also their official opinion on guns for the insane applies only to those in an asylum. Not to those who are free but judged insane by doctors.

 

[Picky Picky]

Right. It's down. As far as I know everyone accepts that it's down. It's down throughout the Western World. American rates are still ludicrously high. Do I take it everyone agrees with that, too?

 

[AMDG]

snipped to sentence addressed. Longer post above

In most jurisdictions, anyone can go into a gun show and purchase an assault weapon, with no legal limits or restrictions.

You are mistaken. Those that sell at gunshows are the same dealers that sell in sporting goods shops. And they have to fill out pages and pages of information AND run a background check BEFORE selling the firearm. If they don't, they will lose their licenses and be out of business.

BTW I don't know if it is realized by some of the gun controllers that a background check only tells what has happened in the PAST, not what is happening in the PRESENT, nor what WILL happen in the future. In all too many of the incidents, it wouldn't have prevented the incident at all.

 

[mark46]

The requirement was changed in 1986.

There are many sources of updated information. Her's one.

Gun Show Background Checks State Laws

I agree that many gun sellers at shows are the same as those who own shops. In that case, they must perform background checks. HOWEVER, gun store owners who receive most of their income from guns sales are not the only sellers at gun shows.

snipped to sentence addressed. Longer post above



You are mistaken. Those that sell at gunshows are the same dealers that sell in sporting goods shops. And they have to fill out pages and pages of information AND run a background check BEFORE selling the firearm. If they don't, they will lose their licenses and be out of business.

BTW I don't know if it is realized by some of the gun controllers that a background check only tells what has happened in the PAST, not what is happening in the PRESENT, nor what WILL happen in the future. In all too many of the incidents, it wouldn't have prevented the incident at all.

 

[MikeK]

You are mistaken. Those that sell at gunshows are the same dealers that sell in sporting goods shops.

That is false. While some licensed dealers sell at gunshows, private parties (like me!) get tables and sell guns too. For us, the law is cash and carry. There is no provision for a background check. There is no way to determine if the buyer is of sound mind or not. This is the gunshow loophole. This is what our Bishops are calling on us to change.

 

[wondrousgnat]

When I was in the NRA their monthly magazine would always have a story about someone, somewhere in the USA using a gun to defend himself. Sounds great. But every single night I would watch the news and see stories about guns being used to shoot people in my area. Including a guy who was a friend of mine for about 30 years killing himself.

The NRA also ran a story about sheriffs who opposed gun registration. There were two. One from a n Iowa and the other from a small town in Colorado. Two rural towns I never heard of. Then the Iowa sheriff went public and admitted that he was NOT opposed to gun registration. Just that he did not look forward to the paper work.



Still looking for what method the NRA would use to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. That is assuming they oppose gun ownership by criminals.

 

[AMDG]

When I was in the NRA their monthly magazine would always have a story about someone, somewhere in the USA using a gun to defend himself. Sounds great. But every single night I would watch the news and see stories about guns being used to shoot people in my area. Including a guy who was a friend of mine for about 30 years killing himself.

The NRA also ran a story about sheriffs who opposed gun registration. There were two. One from a n Iowa and the other from a small town in Colorado. Two rural towns I never heard of. Then the Iowa sheriff went public and admitted that he was NOT opposed to gun registration. Just that he did not look forward to the paper work.



Still looking for what method the NRA would use to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. That is assuming they oppose gun ownership by criminals.

Well there are a LOT more sheriffs who believe in fulfilling their Constitutional oaths and who have ASKED folks to do their part as far as protection goes and it's not just in the rural towns (although I have heard of a town that has MANDATED firearm ownership and maintenance for its able-bodied citizens and has seen its crime rate plummet.)

And firearms are not the only things that kill--knives (they were used in the last couple of very public massacres), hammers or blunt objects, bombs (in Oklahoma City bombing, fertilizer was used to make the bomb), taking poison, etc. There are even more deaths from bathtub accidents.

BTW besides the knives used for that boy who decided to kill because he wasn't "getting any" a car was used to injure many. I understand that cars kill too (they are considered weapons--nearly 2000 pounds of weapon). And even children can get their hands on cars. When are we going to ban cars? Haven't heard of even the smallest number of folks suggesting that.

BTW, there are ALREADY laws upon laws that are supposed to keep criminals from obtaining firearms. Criminals don't obey laws--nothing effects them-- increased restrictions only makes their criminal offenses easier.

 

[New Legacy]

Do gun control advocates say gun violence is "worse today than ever before"? I haven't heard that. I think it is common ground that violent crime has dropped during the last decade throughout first-world countries. The American problem is that the gun homicide rate has dropped from a level grotesquely higher than in other, comparable, countries and is therefore still grotesquely higher than in other, comparable, countries. There's no room for complacency, I suggest.

I guess being killed by a gun is worse than being killed by other methods?

Why not something more arbitrary, pink gun homicide?

 

[New Legacy]

Right. It's down. As far as I know everyone accepts that it's down. It's down throughout the Western World. American rates are still ludicrously high. Do I take it everyone agrees with that, too?

Guns also keep people safe. It is why people will break into homes when people are inside in the UK. It's while the UK has high rates of muggings.

Anti-gun advocates are people that do not want to own guns and want everyone to be equally vulnerable.

 

[MikeK]

In arguing against banning guns you fabricating a position to argue against because you cannot support your positions on the real topics at hand, reasonable gun control legislation that respects the 2nd Amendment AND saves lives, just like the Church is calling on you to support (establishing registration and requiring background checks for all firearm transfers). There is no significant movement to take guns away from law-abiding people. Guns are used far more often in murders in the USA than cars or knives or poison or blunt objects are. Were these the weapons of choice for murderers, our discussion would be different.

Well there are a LOT more sheriffs who believe in fulfilling their Constitutional oaths and who have ASKED folks to do their part as far as protection goes and it's not just in the rural towns (although I have heard of a town that has MANDATED firearm ownership and maintenance for its able-bodied citizens and has seen its crime rate plummet.)

And firearms are not the only things that kill--knives (they were used in the last couple of very public massacres), hammers or blunt objects, bombs (in Oklahoma City bombing, fertilizer was used to make the bomb), taking poison, etc. There are even more deaths from bathtub accidents.

BTW besides the knives used for that boy who decided to kill because he wasn't "getting any" a car was used to injure many. I understand that cars kill too (they are considered weapons--nearly 2000 pounds of weapon). And even children can get their hands on cars. When are we going to ban cars? Haven't heard of even the smallest number of folks suggesting that.

BTW, there are ALREADY laws upon laws that are supposed to keep criminals from obtaining firearms. Criminals don't obey laws--nothing effects them-- increased restrictions only makes their criminal offenses easier.

 

[MikeK]

Guns also keep people safe. It is why people will break into homes when people are inside in the UK. It's while the UK has high rates of muggings.

I don't know (or much care) about non-violent muggings, but murder and violent crime are far more common per capita in the USA than in the UK. The UK has high a high violent crime rate by Western European standards (who generally also prohibit the carrying of firearms by civilians) but not by American standards.

United Kingdom and United States Compared by Crime: NationMaster.com

 

[New Legacy]

I don't know (or much care) about non-violent muggings, but murder and violent crime are far more common per capita in the USA than in the UK. The UK has high a high violent crime rate by Western European standards (who generally also prohibit the carrying of firearms by civilians) but not by American standards.

United Kingdom and United States Compared by Crime: NationMaster.com

It's always interesting when people pull up statistics because I have to bring up other facts that can make people feel uncomfortable because they have been taught to feel a certain way even though what they know and observe is different.

The US will have for the near future very skewed statistics based on our western counterparts because we have a larger former slave population that is massively disproportionately violent. Ghettos, 'urban culture', their music is plagued with violence and thuggery.

Blacks are responsible for the majority of murders in the US. Yes, 52.5%. They make up 12-13% of the population and account for over half of murders. That's huge.

This has nothing to do with race, but the culture that developed as a result of slavery, racism, and oppression. I am sure someone will or wants to respond to me telling me I am all wrong, but they know they would never pull over into an East Saint Louis gas station, wander around Detroit, south Chicago, the wards of Houston, and most of New Orleans at night, or even the day for that matter.

The US also has a land border with Latin America, also responsible for large crime elements. People cannot walk from central America to the UK.

Latinos make up the largest group of gang members, followed by blacks. Despite the fact the whites are the majority.

If you were to exclude the differences between the US and the Europe, you'll find no differences. People can get upset when one talks like this because they cannot disassociate race with culture. The US has higher crime rates because we have groups that Europe does not have.

 

[Picky Picky]

I don't know (or much care) about non-violent muggings, but murder and violent crime are far more common per capita in the USA than in the UK. The UK has high a high violent crime rate by Western European standards (who generally also prohibit the carrying of firearms by civilians) but not by American standards.

United Kingdom and United States Compared by Crime: NationMaster.com

It's also the case that UK violent crime rates are substantially overstated compared with US ones because of the breadth of crimes included in the UK statistics. Non-injury assaults as minor as a push or shove are included in UK violent crime statistics, whereas only serious violent assaults are included in the US figures. Whether this also explains any difference between UK and other European rates I don't know.

 

[wondrousgnat]

One of every 20 victims of knifings die. One of every 5 shooting victims do.

About 20 years ago the picture window of my house was not taken out by a drive by stabbing.

 

[AMDG]

One of every 20 victims of knifings die. One of every 5 shooting victims do.

About 20 years ago the picture window of my house was not taken out by a drive by stabbing.

So? The dead victims of either are....DEAD. Then there are other methods of killing--car, poison--slow or fast, drowning, even asphyxiation by strangulation, hammer, blunt object (of course in a pinch fists or the heel of the hand used to drive bone into brain, or maybe a sturdy shoe used to kick with will do), heard of a chain saw in Britain being used, bombing gets to claim many lives (the Oklahoma City bomber used fertilizer to make his bombs), arson (fire), heard of even airplanes being used to ram into buildings, and have also heard of folks dying from being tasered. In fact, more people DIE in freak accidents in the bathtub than in firearm deaths.

 

[wondrousgnat]

Huh? You are 4 times as likely to die from a shooting which can happen at a distance than from a stabbing. And you see no difference?


When I was a member of the NRA I had, and still have, a friend who sells guns at gun shows. He does not do background checks.

Now so far I have not seen anyone post any information about how the NRA would keep guns out of the hands of criminals. In spite of rhetoric they offer nothing. My only conclusion is that the NRA wants them to have guns. They either get them legally or from others who got them and need to replace them. Gun sales now go up. The increased rates of violence inspire more people to buy guns. Gun sales go up further and so do profits. The NRA is nothing but a lobby group for businesses whose goals are essentially to make a profit. If you disagree then show me any method in which the NRA proposes to keep guns out of hands of criminals.