Challenges for pre tribulation rapture

[BABerean2]

1. Romans 11:26; AND SO ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED : as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.

NOTICE THE WORD ALL WHICH MEANS THE WHOLE NATION. ONCE AGAIN YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!!!!

HEBREWS SAYS THAT GOD WILL MAKE A COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND THE HOUSE OF JUDAH IN HEBREWS 8:8 AND IN VERSE 11; AND THEY SHALL NOT TEACH EVERY MAN HIS NEIGHBOUR AND EVERY MAN HIS BROTHER, SAYING, KNOW THE LORD: FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST. THIS WILL HAPPEN IN THE TRIBULATION AND WHEN GOD COMES BACK AT ARMAGEDDON AND ISRAEL WILL BECOME THE CAPITOL OF THE WORLD.

2. Romans 9:27; a remnant will be saved in the tribulation. Revelation 12:17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
What you fail to realize is that all of Israel will accept Christ and he will write his laws into their minds and in their hearts and forgive their sins. This has to happen before the nation can fulfill their covenant of David concerning the kingdom as the head of the nations found in Isaiah 2:1-4.

You can try to ignore what Paul had just said in chapter 9 of the same letter to the Romans, but it is not being honest with the text.

Paul had already explained that not all of Israel, was Israel of the promise. Ignoring it will not make it go away.

Paul had also explained that Israel of the Flesh were not the children of God.

Therefore, the is no agreement between what you are saying and what the Apostle Paul said.


Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:


Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


You cannot have the New Covenant "now" in effect in Hebrews 8:6 and then claim it is not in effect in the rest of the same passage.

You cannot bring yourself to admit that the Gentiles were grafted in among the Israelite branches of the Promise, as the Olive Tree in Romans chapter 11.

You are also ignoring the words of Christ at Matthew 26:28.

3,000 Israelites became members of the New Covenant on the Day of Pentecost.

Paul begins Romans chapter 11 by saying that he is an Israelite. He was a member of the New Covenant.

The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are one in the same, as revealed by Pastor John Otis below.


Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology: Pastor John Otis

 

[jerry kelso]

You can try to ignore what Paul had just said in chapter 9 of the same letter to the Romans, but it is not being honest with the text.

Paul had already explained that not all of Israel, was Israel of the promise. Ignoring it will not make it go away.

Paul had also explained that Israel of the Flesh were not the children of God.

Therefore, the is no agreement between what you are saying and what the Apostle Paul said.


Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:


Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


You cannot have the New Covenant "now" in effect in Hebrews 8:6 and then claim it is not in effect in the rest of the same passage.

You cannot bring yourself to admit that the Gentiles were grafted in among the Israelite branches of the Promise, as the Olive Tree in Romans chapter 11.

You are also ignoring the words of Christ at Matthew 26:28.

3,000 Israelites became members of the New Covenant on the Day of Pentecost.

Paul begins Romans chapter 11 by saying that he is an Israelite. He was a member of the New Covenant.

The Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven are one in the same, as revealed by Pastor John Otis below.


Great Errors in Dispensational Eschatology: Pastor John Otis

baberean,

1. I didn't ignore what Paul said, I quoted what he said and why and what the time factor of which was at the time of Paul and the early church and what was prophetic to the future of the tribulation. Obviously you can't read or understand properly when it comes to the scripture but you sure can make open ended accusations.

2. Israel stated that all Israel was not Israel in his day. At the same time his heart ached for his fellow brethren (because he was a jew) because he understood their covenants of Abraham and David specifically to Israel and not directly to the church. When he said; ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED WASN'T TALKING ABOUT IN HIS DAY, IT WAS PROPHETIC TO THE FULNESS OF THE GENTILES BE COME IN WHICH IS FUTURE TO THE TRIBULATION AND HAS NOT EVEN HAPPENED YET.
THE PROMISE OF ISRAEL CONCERNING SALVATION WAS NOT LIMITED TO ISRAEL BECAUSE CHRIST DIED. SALVATION WAS WHY THE MOSAIC LAW WAS FOR A SPECIFIC TIME AND WOULD NOT KEEP THE PROMISE OF SALVATION BY GRACE THROUGH ABRAHAM FROM COMING TO PASS.

3. I already said this promise came true for the jews and gentiles of which the church was of the jews and gentiles after the resurrection and will be through the church age.

4. This is not the part of the Abrahamic covenant that deals with Israel's earthly calling and this is what you refuse to believe. These are two different things. Israel will still fulfill their calling in Abraham concerning the land and this is why Jesus said Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth. They are promised a certain geographical part of the land in the future and Zechariah says the nations shall flow into it and Jerusalem will be the capitol of the world and people from other nations will have to come and celebrate the feast or incur a curse.

5. So I have not ignored about Israel and its promise of salvation and callings in the future or the promise of salvation of Israel who believed in the early church and was a part of the church of the jew and gentile.
You make the whole of the promise concerning salvation of the church to try to dismiss the fact of Israel's callings. You are incorrect.

6. Israel of the flesh were not the children of God in the early church and I have said that more than once. They will be in the flesh in the tribulation until they eventually recognize the Messiah as the suffering Savior whom they pierced. Revelation 1:7.

7. The KOG in the spiritual aspect of Jesus teachings were how they would gain entrance into the physical kingdom because God will not have people rule with him if they are backslidden. Do you understand that? Adam and Eve were kicked out of the physical garden because they sinned are were no longer righteous and holy before God. All of Israel will eventually believe and the unbelievers will be killed. Read Zechariah 13:9; that says 2/3 will be cut off and 1/3 will come through the fire. That 1/3 and the rest of the nation preserved in the wilderness will all believe in order to gain entrance into the KOH and their role as the head of the nations. If you say this will not happen you are going against the scriptures.

8. I never denied that the gentiles were not grafted in because the bible says they were. That is an outright lie which is because you don't understand what I said and you are trying to deduce what I say and you fail.
Why you think I failed to say that or even believed shows how much you have tunnel vision to prove your false understanding about this issue according to the scripture.

9. Give me a break and wake up!!!!!!!!!!! Romans 11:17; And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them and with them partakes of the root and fatness of the olive tree.

10. Paul said in Romans 11:11; I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Verse 12; Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world and the diminishing of them the riches of the gentiles how much more their fulness? if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

11. All Israel in the early church were the new covenant believers!!!!! That is no argument. The new covenant believers were not under the old system according to Calvary. The reason they were proselyted is because the apostles didn't fully understand the mystery of the church. The cross made the mystery of the church of the jew and gentile on the same level was not manifested until Peter had the vision of the clean and the unclean and Paul getting the revelation from God. This is gradual revelation and you refuse to admit it and believe it and the proper perspective of the various contexts concerning the church age of jews and gentiles and the earthly calling of Israel specifically to their covenants of Abraham an David.

12. This is what happens when people stay focused on only one side that they create tunnel vision. Is shows a lack of proper exegesis and reconciling of the scriptures.

13. The KOH Physical is not the same as the KOG physical in totality. The KOH is limited to the earth and the reign on earth. The physical KOG is the entire universe of which the physical KOH is small sphere of the universal KOG

14. The spiritual aspect of the KOG is what the jews were to seek to be blessed and the reason they had to repent in order to have the right to rule physically on the earth. The spiritual aspect of the KOH is basically spiritual things contained in the physical KOH. The jews were never told to seek the physical KOH to be saved.

15. David Stern of the complete Jewish bible recognizes the difference between the KOH and the KOG. He still believes that the KOH and the KOG are one. This is true in the overall context that the KOH earthly sphere is a part and contained in the universal KOG. This doesn't dismiss the fact that they are not the same in every single jot and tittle and that they are not to be understood as 2 different kingdoms in the proper perspective and context.

16. John Otis makes quotes from dispensational teachers and he misunderstands and makes wrong deductions to what the bible says. He can be right to dispensational teachers that imply or plainly say that the church was a B plan. I have already said that that was not true and explained why.

17. To bring up what if the jews would have accepted him then what casts doubt on the validity of the KOH offer. This would cast doubt on Jesus offer of the KOH. Matthew 4:17. The KOH offer was valid. Jesus also knew that he was to be the suffering savior of Isaiah 53 and the jews missed it but the KOH was prophesied to come to pass because of the covenant promises. So if the jews would have accepted the kingdom is a hypothetical and the fact is that the jews rejected Jesus. So the accusation of a plan b scripturally is inaccurate. He is arguing against against wrong teachings of some dispensationalist and stereotypes everyone who believes in dispensations even though they may not believe that.

18. You need to get away from preachers who are attacking positions and statements of preachers who misunderstand or misquote what the bible really says and who are doing nothing but stereotyping and end up missing the point on their own positions on a given subject.

19. The KOH is not a new testament term because it is an old testament doctrine and Jesus ministry was under the old testament and the Mosaic law and not the New covenant and it was exclusive according to the covenants of Abraham and David? Do you believe this? If you don't you don't understand the difference between the jewish callings and covenants and the churches.

20. Do you believe the Abrahamic Covenant has only one part of salvation to the gentiles as well as the jews and because of this does away with Israel's callings and covenants? If you do you believe in replacement theology!

21. Do you think the KOH and the KOG message of Jesus to the jews is for the church in it's entire context concerning the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants? If you do then this is why you stay confused and cannot reconcile the scriptures together and have no true jewish understanding of the old testament!

22. If you think Jesus message to the jews only is the same exact message in its totality for them and the church then you would have the church live under the old covenant and stay in the struggle of sin and not believe in the death and resurrection. You would have us perform all 630 commandments and more etc.

23. Now you know this can't be because you know the curse has been lifted and we are not under the Mosaic law of performing all those commandments etc. But in essence if you are going to claim the message is the same then this is where it leads to and would have to be because they are the same.

24. Do you believe Jesus taught his death and burial and resurrection directly and plainly in his earthly ministry and what scripture can you give to prove this ?Jerry Kelso

 

[BABerean2]

Do you believe the Abrahamic Covenant has only one part of salvation to the gentiles as well as the jews and because of this does away with Israel's callings and covenants? If you do you believe in replacement theology!

The charge of Replacement Theology starts by erecting the strawman claim that says...Those teaching "Replacement Theology" claim that the Gentile Church has replaced Israel."

The church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church".
When the Church started almost all of it's members were Israelites, like Paul. Romans 11:1
Even today it continues to be made up of both Jewish and Gentile believers.
My wife and I have had Jewish Christians in our home for Bible study.

The Gentiles were grafted into Israel of the Promise, made up of those Israelites who accepted Christ.

Your attempt to lump all Israelites together is an attempt to make John Darby's doctrine work.

Paul plainly said that the promises made to Abraham were made only to Christ.

You are either attempting to correct Paul or to ignore Paul, because you do not want the truth.


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


If you are claiming there are promises to be fulfilled outside of the Church of Jesus Christ, then it is you who is teaching "Replacement Theology".

You are attempting to replace Israel of the Promise with Israel of the Flesh in Romans 9:8.

.

 

[jerry kelso]

The charge of Replacement Theology starts by erecting the strawman claim that says...Those teaching "Replacement Theology" claim that the Gentile Church has replaced Israel."

The church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church".
When the Church started almost all of it's members were Israelites, like Paul. Romans 11:1
Even today it continues to be made up of both Jewish and Gentile believers.
My wife and I have had Jewish Christians in our home for Bible study.

The Gentiles were grafted into Israel of the Promise, made up of those Israelites who accepted Christ.

Your attempt to lump all Israelites together is an attempt to make John Darby's doctrine work.

Paul plainly said that the promises made to Abraham were made only to Christ.

You are either attempting to correct Paul or to ignore Paul, because you do not want the truth.


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


If you are claiming there are promises to be fulfilled outside of the Church of Jesus Christ, then it is you who is teaching "Replacement Theology".

You are attempting to replace Israel of the Promise with Israel of the Flesh in Romans 9:8.

.

baberean2,

Galatians 3:16 and 3:29 are are true about the church of jews and gentiles being Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. This promise has to do with being able to be saved through the cross.

They have nothing to do with keeping Israel from being the nation being at the head of the nations and from Jerusalem being the capitol of the world. Do you deny this? Do you believe the church of today is going to be at the head of the nations and rule over the KOH in the millennial reign in that position and calling that Israel was promised in the old testament? Let me know. Jerry Kelso

 

[BABerean2]

baberean2,

Galatians 3:16 and 3:29 are are true about the church of jews and gentiles being Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise. This promise has to do with being able to be saved through the cross.

They have nothing to do with keeping Israel from being the nation being at the head of the nations and from Jerusalem being the capitol of the world. Do you deny this? Do you believe the church of today is going to be at the head of the nations and rule over the KOH in the millennial reign in that position and calling that Israel was promised in the old testament? Let me know. Jerry Kelso

You ignore Paul's words clearly stating that the promises were not made to the many seeds and that the inheritance comes only through Christ and that the Church does not "replace" Israel.
The Church is Israel of the promise.

There is only one fold and one Shepherd, just as Jesus said.


Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

There is now no plan outside of the Church, which is made up of all those in the New Blood Covenant.

We will be in the same Kingdom as Abraham and David.

There is only One People of God, Israel of the Promise...

.

 

[jerry kelso]

You ignore Paul's words clearly stating that the promises were not made to the many seeds and that the inheritance comes only through Christ and that the Church does not "replace" Israel.
The Church is Israel of the promise.

There is only one fold and one Shepherd, just as Jesus said.


Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

There is now no plan outside of the Church, which is made up of all those in the New Blood Covenant.

We will be in the same Kingdom as Abraham and David.

There is only One People of God, Israel of the Promise...

.

baberean2,
I have said that the church and the nation of Israel will be in the same KOH reign as Abraham and David.
I have said there is only people of God.
I asked, will the church be at the head of the nations in Jerusalem which will be the capitol of the earth? Give a scripture that says the church will be at the head of the nations in Jerusalem.
BTW, The other sheep the gentiles have been made one fold because of the new covenant. Now answer the question above. Jerry kelso

 

[Biblewriter]

BABerean2 is entirely correct that only a remnant of Israel will be saved. But you are neglecting the fact that scripture is very plain that at the time this happens, that remnant will constitute the entirety of Israel.

We read, in explicit words, that the rebels will be purged from among them.

Eze 20:33 "As I live," says the Lord GOD, "surely with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out, I will rule over you. 34 I will bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you are scattered, with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out. 35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there I will plead My case with you face to face. 36 Just as I pleaded My case with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will plead My case with you," says the Lord GOD. 37 "I will make you pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant; 38 I will purge the rebels from among you, and those who transgress against Me; I will bring them out of the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the LORD. Ezekiel 20:33-38

we also read, again in explicit words, that the remaining ones "shall trust in the name of the Lord."

“In that day you shall not be shamed for any of your deeds In which you transgress against Me; For then I will take away from your midst Those who rejoice in your pride, And you shall no longer be haughty In My holy mountain. I will leave in your midst A meek and humble people, And they shall trust in the name of the LORD.” (Zephaniah 3:11-12)

This is how “it shall come to pass that he who is left in Zion and remains in Jerusalem will be called holy; everyone who is recorded among the living in Jerusalem. When the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and purged the blood of Jerusalem from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning.” (Isaiah 4:3-4)

Again, we read, “Then I will give them a heart to know Me, that I am the LORD; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God, for they shall return to Me with their whole heart.” (Jeremiah 24:7)

“And so all Israel will be saved” (Romans 11:26)

You want to make a great deal about the fact that the word usually translated "so" in this last sentence actually means "thus." Roughly half of all Bible translations render this word each way. For context is often the determining factor in the meaning of a word. But in your argument, you are neglecting the fact that whether the meaning is "so" or "thus" is inconsequential. For the key part of the statement is, whether the second word be be "thus" or "so," is that "all Israel shall be saved."

Thus, scripture does indeed say, and say explicitly, that "all Israel shall be saved." Both the Old Testament and the New Testament say this, and both say it in plain words.

 

[BABerean2]

I asked, will the church be at the head of the nations in Jerusalem which will be the capitol of the earth?

It will not be anyone except Jesus Christ, who will be the head of the nations.

.

 

[BABerean2]

BABerean2 is entirely correct that only a remnant of Israel will be saved. But you are neglecting the fact that scripture is very plain that at the time this happens, that remnant will constitute the entirety of Israel.

We read, in explicit words, that the rebels will be purged from among them.

Eze 20:33 "As I live," says the Lord GOD, "surely with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out, I will rule over you. 34 I will bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you are scattered, with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out. 35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there I will plead My case with you face to face. 36 Just as I pleaded My case with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will plead My case with you," says the Lord GOD. 37 "I will make you pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant; 38 I will purge the rebels from among you, and those who transgress against Me; I will bring them out of the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the LORD. Ezekiel 20:33-38

we also read, again in explicit words, that the remaining ones "shall trust in the name of the Lord."

“In that day you shall not be shamed for any of your deeds In which you transgress against Me; For then I will take away from your midst Those who rejoice in your pride, And you shall no longer be haughty In My holy mountain. I will leave in your midst A meek and humble people, And they shall trust in the name of the LORD.” (Zephaniah 3:11-12)

This is how “it shall come to pass that he who is left in Zion and remains in Jerusalem will be called holy; everyone who is recorded among the living in Jerusalem. When the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and purged the blood of Jerusalem from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning.” (Isaiah 4:3-4)

Again, we read, “Then I will give them a heart to know Me, that I am the LORD; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God, for they shall return to Me with their whole heart.” (Jeremiah 24:7)

“And so all Israel will be saved” (Romans 11:26)

You want to make a great deal about the fact that the word usually translated "so" in this last sentence actually means "thus." Roughly half of all Bible translations render this word each way. For context is often the determining factor in the meaning of a word. But in your argument, you are neglecting the fact that whether the meaning is "so" or "thus" is inconsequential. For the key part of the statement is, whether the second word be be "thus" or "so," is that "all Israel shall be saved."

Thus, scripture does indeed say, and say explicitly, that "all Israel shall be saved." Both the Old Testament and the New Testament say this, and both say it in plain words.

I would agree with you 100% if everything above is not based on bloodline, but instead is based on faith in Christ by being grafted into the Olive Tree of the New Blood Covenant Church of Jesus Christ.


Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.


Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.



Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.



Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.



Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

.

 

[jerry kelso]

It will not be anyone except Jesus Christ, who will be the head of the nations.

.

1. What scripture says that? None you are giving your opinion.
Yes Jesus will be the head of all in the kingdom. This doesn't discredit the scripture that says David the throne of David Isaiah 9:7 and the 12 apostles will rule over the 12 tribes of Israel KOH. Matthew 19:28.

2. Israel has to be purged and not the church for the true church is not backslidden. Matthew 16:18; The gates of hell shall never prevail against the church. If the salt have lost its savor it is no good except to be trodden down under the foot of men. Israel was trodden all through their history and in 70 A.D. The true church has never been trodden down and the gates of hell has never prevailed against it and never will.
Isaiah 2:1-5 is all about Israel being at the head of the nations which will be the house of the Lord and verse 5 is about the house of Jacob. The church is never to be purged from being backslidden and and not mentioned as the house of Jacob.

3. Ezekiel 37 is about the house of Israel and Judah being united and not the church.
You would do better to quit saying general statement like Jesus is the only one who will be at the head of the nations, especially when you can't back it up with scripture. I am not judging whether you are a true christian or not but, true christians that believe in the truth surrender to the truth. Peter knew he had sinned when he was a respector of persons and Paul called him and the others down and they didn't say who do you think you are because they were the original apostle or reject Paul's rebuke. They surrendered to the truth. Surrender. Food for thought Jerry kelso

 

[BABerean2]

1. What scripture says that? None you are giving your opinion.
Yes Jesus will be the head of all in the kingdom. This doesn't discredit the scripture that says David the throne of David Isaiah 9:7 and the 12 apostles will rule over the 12 tribes of Israel KOH. Matthew 19:28.

2. Israel has to be purged and not the church for the true church is not backslidden. Matthew 16:18; The gates of hell shall never prevail against the church. If the salt have lost its savor it is no good except to be trodden down under the foot of men. Israel was trodden all through their history and in 70 A.D. The true church has never been trodden down and the gates of hell has never prevailed against it and never will.
Isaiah 2:1-5 is all about Israel being at the head of the nations which will be the house of the Lord and verse 5 is about the house of Jacob. The church is never to be purged from being backslidden and and not mentioned as the house of Jacob.

3. Ezekiel 37 is about the house of Israel and Judah being united and not the church.
You would do better to quit saying general statement like Jesus is the only one who will be at the head of the nations, especially when you can't back it up with scripture. I am not judging whether you are a true christian or not but, true christians that believe in the truth surrender to the truth. Peter knew he had sinned when he was a respector of persons and Paul called him and the others down and they didn't say who do you think you are because they were the original apostle or reject Paul's rebuke. They surrendered to the truth. Surrender. Food for thought Jerry kelso

If you are going to judge whether or not a person is a Christian based on whether or not they believe John Darby's Two Peoples of God doctrine, then you are leaving out those members of the Church during the first 1800 years of Church history.

You are claiming that there will be a future period of time when people will be saved outside of the Church and then you suggest the possibility that another member of this forum may not be a Christian, because they do not agree with your doctrine...

You are agreeing with Peter that God is still a respecter of persons, based on bloodline.

You need to look at Paul's rebuke below.


Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

...........................................................


Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


Somehow you are able to ignore the fact that Peter was talking to the house of Israel and the house of Judah on the Day of Pentecost.

Look at all of the nations represented on that day.


Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.


Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:


Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:


Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

On that day about 3,000 Israelites became a part of the New Blood Covenant of Christ.


Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

.

 

[jerry kelso]

If you are going to judge whether or not a person is a Christian based on whether or not they believe John Darby's Two Peoples of God doctrine, then you are leaving out those members of the Church during the first 1800 years of Church history.

You are claiming that there will be a future period of time when people will be saved outside of the Church and then you suggest the possibility that another member of this forum may not be a Christian, because they do not agree with your doctrine...

You are agreeing with Peter that God is still a respecter of persons, based on bloodline.

You need to look at Paul's rebuke below.


Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

...........................................................


Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


Somehow you are able to ignore the fact that Peter was talking to the house of Israel and the house of Judah on the Day of Pentecost.

Look at all of the nations represented on that day.


Act 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

Act 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

Act 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.


Act 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:


Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:


Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.


Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

On that day about 3,000 Israelites became a part of the New Blood Covenant of Christ.


Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

.

baberean,

1. I didn't say or implied anything about John Darby because I believe in proper hermeneutics in rightly dividing the word. You on the other hand want to hang on to your berean doctrine which is incorrect. That is a contradiction on your part.

2. I do not believe in the two peoples of God theory and that is your opinion and deducing of what I said and it is your opinion and not the truth. Two different callings which is the earthly calling of the nation of Israel and the heavenly calling of the church today doesn't mean there are two peoples of God as in your context of disharmony. There is only one body of Christ, but many members with different gifts etc. That debunks your ridiculous accusation that is unfounded in the scripture.

3. Leaving out the christians from the first 1800 years of church is your non-sensical and illogical belief and opinion. You have no scripture to prove your accusation which is an opinion and wrong deducing of the scripture is true.

4. The first years of the early church was before the full revelation and understanding of the mystery of the church by way of calvary. This didn't happen until Peter got the vision of the clean and the unclean and Paul of the Dispensation of the Grace of God. This mystery was about the jew and gentile in one body alike for the church age and this doesn't interfere with the part of the covenant between Israel the jewish nation that God promised them through Abraham and David and that are eternal of which I have given more than once.

5. You refuse to understand how that revelation was given gradually on certain things.

6. Your spiritual Israel is to the extreme so you can prove that the church is Israel in all ways or at least that is the perception you give. The main point is that in all of these things you have no scriptural fact to prove your point in the biblical context and scriptural facts in the proper context and that is why it is your opinion and wrong deducing.

7. First, I said whether or not the church is in the tribulation or not doesn't interfere with the callings of Israel through the Abraham covenant and the Davidic covenant anymore than the Mosaic law was going to keep the new covenant from coming in. Once again your scriptural reasoning is your opinion again and wrong deducing.

8. I did not say or imply that you or anyone else was not a christian because they believe the doctrine. I did say that if you were a true christian you would admit your mistake of your opinion and wrong deducing and wrongly dividing the word you would do the right thing and admit it and quit giving the perception of saying the scripture proves your false point. This context was in the form of the question that Jesus Christ was the only one to be at the head of the nations. This is wrong because the bible says that Israel will be at the head of the nations Isaiah 2:2-4. BTW, being the head of the nations is Christ but he is the one giving the authority to Israel to be at the head of the nations in this rulership position and David will be the earthly King of Israel and the 12 apostles will rule over the 12 tribes of Israel which is not the church of spiritual Israel concerning salvation but the physical tribes and geographically the land concerning Israel the physical nation.

9. Israel is the only one to be purged in the tribulation to go into receiving their covenants of Abraham and David concerning the land and the head of the nations rule of the nations. This has nothing to do with the role of the church of jews and gentiles today.

10. We are saved and are eligible of going to heaven and be under the heavenly calling of the saved and trained through suffering now to become Kings, Priests and Rulers in the Kingdom to come but not as the head of the nations from Jerusalem with Jesus Christ and David, Abraham and the 12 apostles and the nation of Israel. God has order and will have an organized earthly theocracy on earth.

11. I gave you in the last post about Israel has to be united with Judah in Ezekiel 37. This has nothing to do with the gentiles or spiritual Israel but it does with the physical nation of Israel. The church doesn't have to purged from being backslidden because the gates of hell shall never prevail against the church and has never been trodden under the foot of men in the context of Israel.

12. In this whole post you never rebutted what I said specific to the point of what I explained about why Israel is purged and not the church, why the church will have rulership positions that we are being trained for now but not as the head of the nations in Jerusalem. You refuse to show that Israel and Judah have to be united to be one in Ezekiel 36 which will happen in the future tribulation. About the only way to prove it from your side is to make Israel and Judah spiritual Israel with gentiles and that doctrine is out there too.

13. You accuse me of being like Peter and being a respector of persons according to bloodline. You are wrong again which is getting to be more and more by each post.
The jews didn't have the understanding of the gentiles being on the exact same level in the early church the first 8-10 years. I have said this multiple times and you keep ignoring that.

14. When Peter got the vision of the clean and the unclean Peter was shocked because the gentiles were proselyted into Judaism under the law and they still were to be saved through the gentiles and this is why they would be blessed. This will still happen in the future but that is a different context.

15. When Peter was being respect of persons he had already received the truth of jew and gentile being on the same ground by way of Calvary. The bible says, he who knoweth to do right and doeth it not it is sin. He knowingly sinned because of fear after he had already been given the truth about respect of persons.

16. Your accusation according to blood line is ridiculous it was because of the eternal covenants to the nation and how they could and would fulfill the role as the head of the nations.

17. You are the one being a respect of persons because you want the church today to fulfill the eternal covenants to Israel that have nothing to do with the church in that role.

18. The church of today has roles not only on the earth but throughout the universe. I don't see that you accuse the nation of Israel being sleighted because there role is limited to the earth.
Christ, the church, the nation of Israel all have their rightful roles and this has nothing to do with being a respect of persons. There is only one body and many members with different gifts and calling. This is the church today.

19. Israel the nation will be in the family of God by way of Calvary's message in the kingdom but they will have a different role in the earthly kingdom and that is not a respect of persons.

20. I have explained and given scripture and specifically and correctly rebutted your position and your consistent refusal of the scriptural proof that is plain, you continue to remain ignorant whether by tunnel vision or willingly and it appears to be the perception that you don't want to know the truth because you failed to be specific in your rebuttal concerning what I have said and of the scripture I gave that scripturally tells Israel the physical nation having eternal covenants that are unconditional but are conditioned by obedience to receive them and that they have differences of roles in the same earthly kingdom. Your refusal of the truth and the proper perspective of these facts and showing partial truths on one side; such as Jesus being the only head of the nations is dishonest and deceiving whether you realize it or not or do it or not on purpose.

21. I have given you opportunity before to show what your view of what the government of the KOH will be and you refuse to give an answer of specifics. So you have another opportunity of explaining specifically about the organization of the form of government and who does what. All your false accusations of the proper scriptures and their proper perspective are not my opinions but they are facts and I have proved it and I am sure that you have believed the wrong doctrine so wrong and are so cemented in what you believe and your teachers that you are fearful of having to change your position. If you value the truth you will surrender to the truth and not worry about what people will think. That is ultimately between you and God for he will ultimately judge all of us.

22. So go ahead and show scripturally the form of government and who will be participants in the kingdom and what their roles will be etc. Try again!. Jerry Kelso

 

[BABerean2]

Mat_21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.



Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:





Joh 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Joh 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.



2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;



Rev_2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.


(Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.)


Rev_3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The kingdoms of this rotten, sin-cursed world, become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever", at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. How long is "forever"?

How much clearer could it be who rules the nations of this world?


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

 

[random person]

BABerean2 is entirely correct that only a remnant of Israel will be saved. But you are neglecting the fact that scripture is very plain that at the time this happens, that remnant will constitute the entirety of Israel.

We read, in explicit words, that the rebels will be purged from among them.

Eze 20:33 "As I live," says the Lord GOD, "surely with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out, I will rule over you. 34 I will bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you are scattered, with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out. 35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there I will plead My case with you face to face. 36 Just as I pleaded My case with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will plead My case with you," says the Lord GOD. 37 "I will make you pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant; 38 I will purge the rebels from among you, and those who transgress against Me; I will bring them out of the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the LORD. Ezekiel 20:33-38

we also read, again in explicit words, that the remaining ones "shall trust in the name of the Lord."

“In that day you shall not be shamed for any of your deeds In which you transgress against Me; For then I will take away from your midst Those who rejoice in your pride, And you shall no longer be haughty In My holy mountain. I will leave in your midst A meek and humble people, And they shall trust in the name of the LORD.” (Zephaniah 3:11-12)

This is how “it shall come to pass that he who is left in Zion and remains in Jerusalem will be called holy; everyone who is recorded among the living in Jerusalem. When the Lord has washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and purged the blood of Jerusalem from her midst, by the spirit of judgment and by the spirit of burning.” (Isaiah 4:3-4)

Again, we read, “Then I will give them a heart to know Me, that I am the LORD; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God, for they shall return to Me with their whole heart.” (Jeremiah 24:7)

“And so all Israel will be saved” (Romans 11:26)

You want to make a great deal about the fact that the word usually translated "so" in this last sentence actually means "thus." Roughly half of all Bible translations render this word each way. For context is often the determining factor in the meaning of a word. But in your argument, you are neglecting the fact that whether the meaning is "so" or "thus" is inconsequential. For the key part of the statement is, whether the second word be be "thus" or "so," is that "all Israel shall be saved."

Thus, scripture does indeed say, and say explicitly, that "all Israel shall be saved." Both the Old Testament and the New Testament say this, and both say it in plain words.

i am so sick of people abusing romans 11:25-26.

the mystery - see galatians 3, ephesians 2, & ephesians 3:1-6

fullness of the gentiles - the intended progress and success of the gospel in the gentile world see "the mystery" above

all of israel is saved - the extent of their conversion not every individual person but rather the single body of the people (the olive tree) see "the mystery" above

 

[random person]

i am so sick of people abusing romans 11:25-26.

the mystery - see galatians 3, ephesians 2, & ephesians 3:1-6

fullness of the gentiles - the intended progress and success of the gospel in the gentile world see "the mystery" above

all of israel is saved - the extent of their conversion not every individual person but rather the single body of the people (the olive tree) see "the mystery" above

all of israel is saved means the whole olive tree is saved

not that the whole state of israel will be converted and saved in a future time

but rather that the whole olive tree is saved see galatians 6:15-16

 

[jerry kelso]

Mat_21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.



Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:





Joh 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.

Joh 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

Joh 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


Rom 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.



2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;



Rev_2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.


(Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.)


Rev_3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

The kingdoms of this rotten, sin-cursed world, become the kingdoms of God and Christ "forever", at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet in the Bible. How long is "forever"?

How much clearer could it be who rules the nations of this world?


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

.

baberean2,

1. Not going to answer my rebuttals about your theory of Christ being the only head of the nations or the details of the kind of government, who will be in the kingdom and who will rule the kingdom with Christ at the head of the nations over the world.

2. You know good and well that the church will rule with a rod of iron according to Revelation 2. It is a fact that Jerusalem will be the capitol of the world which is in Israel according to Zechariah where the nations will have to come and observe the feasts in the kingdom to come.

3. You are being so dishonest because all you are showing your proof is one side of the coin which is about Christ ruling in the kingdom and leave out the rest about the saints ruling in the kingdom and what their positions will be. You ignore and erase the covenants of Abraham and David with the nation of Israel and not the church. You have consistently accused me falsely and I have proved you wrong and you keep spinning.

4. You continue to refuse to provide specific details about what I asked and instead are one sided on the issue.

5. I have already answered to your scriptures like the ones you've given in this post and rebutted it and you can't answer but in opinions and what scriptures you use are too general.
I don't understand why you want to keep skating except for you know you are wrong.

6. Stay on topic. Explain in detail the type of government and what it entails according to the scripture in the millennium. I am sure you are waiting on me to show you because you are not really sure. So listen to your teacher and what he says about it and then let me know. But if you are just going to be one sided and not show the other side then you are showing that you don't understand how to exegete scripture. Now quit skating and be fair for a change. Jerry Kelso

 

[jerry kelso]

all of israel is saved means the whole olive tree is saved

not that the whole state of israel will be converted and saved in a future time

but rather that the whole olive tree is saved see galatians 6:15-16

random person,

1. You don't have scriptural context what it means that all of Israel is saved. The scriptures says All Israel will be saved.

2. The whole olive tree is not saved for Israel has to be grafted back in.


3. The reason you don't understand about the whole state of Israel will be converted and saved in a future time is because you don't understand all the scriptural evidence of the subject.
Isaiah 2:2-4 Israel will be the head of the nations of the House of God.

4. 1 Chronicles 28 says it is an eternal covenant but conditioned on obedience and that is why they can be grafted in as recorded in Romans 11:29.

5. What is the purpose for Israel becoming a nation again and having to be purged and be joined together with Judah to be one forever if God's covenants are through with them.
Galatians 6:15-16; the Israel of God is spiritual according to salvation and that doesn't prevent the parts of the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants to Israel from coming to pass anymore than the Mosaic law could prevent the new covenant from coming to pass.

6. If you think you know something about the millennial kingdom why don't you explain what type of government and who will have the specific positions of rulerships etc. Give scriptural details not a general overview alone. Jerry kelso

 

[random person]

• random person,

1. You don't have scriptural context what it means that all of Israel is saved. The scriptures says All Israel will be saved.

2. The whole olive tree is not saved for Israel has to be grafted back in.


3. The reason you don't understand about the whole state of Israel will be converted and saved in a future time is because you don't understand all the scriptural evidence of the subject.
Isaiah 2:2-4 Israel will be the head of the nations of the House of God.

4. 1 Chronicles 28 says it is an eternal covenant but conditioned on obedience and that is why they can be grafted in as recorded in Romans 11:29.

5. What is the purpose for Israel becoming a nation again and having to be purged and be joined together with Judah to be one forever if God's covenants are through with them.
Galatians 6:15-16; the Israel of God is spiritual according to salvation and that doesn't prevent the parts of the Abrahamic and Davidic covenants to Israel from coming to pass anymore than the Mosaic law could prevent the new covenant from coming to pass.

6. If you think you know something about the millennial kingdom why don't you explain what type of government and who will have the specific positions of rulerships etc. Give scriptural details not a general overview alone. Jerry kelso

when did the millennial kingdom begin according to daniel 2:44 and daniel 7:13-14?

do you know what the holy mountain of god is and his jerusalem is? read galatians 4:26 & hebrews 12:22

if you want to know daily life in millennial kingdom is like read isaiah 65:17-25, isaiah 9:7,
ephesians 3:21, luke 17:20-21, john 18:36.

 

[random person]

revelation 20:4-6 to wit to understand the resurrection and the millennial kingdom one must understand the first death and the second death and how these deaths are intertwined with the resurrection and each other. it is upon death the martyrs receive their thrones but where are these thrones? yet the martyrs dont receive their thrones until AFTER the second coming of christ (revelation 6:9-11)?

mind you the martyrs in revelation 6:9-11 are the very same martyrs in revelation 20:4-6 yet in the earlier passage they arent on thrones reigning with christ? why? hint 1 thessalonians 4:16-17!

 

[random person]

another hint revelation 6:9-11, revelation 15:8, hebrews 9:8, 1 thessalonians 4:16-17, & revelation 20:4-6 are all linked together!