Do the scriptures reveal there will be two different raptures for the saints?

Jan001

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I am pre-millennial, pre-trib. Not because I listened to a prophecy teacher, but because I read my Bible.
I do both. These things are hard to understand.

2 Peter 3:14-17 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;
Yes Jesus was indeed speaking about the future. The future generation that all things shall happen. It was well after 70AD that Jesus gave the Revelation of future events that coincide with what Jesus spoke of in Mat. capts 24-25, and he reiterated some and revealed more details to the apostle John while he was on the isle of Patmos.
The Book of Revelation and all the other books of the Bible were written before AD 70. The Book of Revelation was written a few years before the great tribulation to prepare God's people to flee from Jerusalem before the wrath of God destroyed it in AD 70.

Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,


John was instructed to go and measure the temple. The temple was therefore still standing.

Revelation 11:1-2 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.

The Roman armies did indeed siege the city for 42 months and destroyed the temple in AD 70.
Lk.21:32 is misinterpreted by preterists, ignoring that those things Jesus said would take place in the generation that would see it, but did not take place, as preterists claim, at the time of the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70AD.
Jesus specifically said "this generation," and he was referring to the generation of the people listening to him that day.
Except for the blossoming of the fig tree (the return of the Jewish people to the land of Israel- 1948), those many endtime events that Jesus said will happen have not happened even yet. The generation that saw the return of the Jews to Israel, plus a second similar event when the Berlin Wall fell that released many Jews to also return to Israel.. This generation will see all of the prophetic events that Jesus taught

This sort of thing I already pointed out in my previous post but you have reposted the same eschatological errors to me.

That would be like trying to sell me a zircon when I already have a genuine diamond.

I disagree. :) The fulfillment of the seventieth week of the Seventy-weeks Prophecy of Daniel cannot be split into two different time periods.
Since you recommend to me a book when I have not in any way indicated that I'm interested in switching my eschatology, nor did I request a book recommendation.. I will return the sentiment and recommend to you eschatological teachings from pre-millennial endtime events prophecy teachers. Such as Bill Salus, Thomas Ice, Bill Koenig, Chuck Missler, etc. They have articles online plus they've published many books on the topic that you could chose from and purchase.
I will keep in mind that you do not appreciate unsolicited book suggestions. I hope, then, that you will refrain from offering unsolicited book or article suggestions to others.
 
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WilliamLhk

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WilliamLhk said:

Here we disagree significantly. The whole era [all 7 trumpets and all 7 bowls] will take 40 years, just as it did during the Exodus, and also in the corresponding 40-year period of testing of the Jews between the resurrection of Christ and the Jewish War.


Okay, that's your view. I would need something more explicit to determine a specific time period.
Sure: the following covers the essentials:
64. Egypt, Part 1: Its Coming 40-Year Desolation Provides the evidence, from rarely-quoted biblical End Time prophecies, that reveals the length of, and details about, God’s coming End Time judgment of and later healing of Egypt. Egypt, Part 1: Its Coming 40-Year Desolation

WilliamLhk said:

The Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition comes BEFORE the Parousia of the Lord, and is destroyed at that Parousia. 2 Thes. 2:8 The latter-day Little Horn and Beast both come AFTER the Parousia.

Well, that's very different from my position. Dan 7 sets the scenario for me and has the Son of Man return with the clouds to destroy the Little Horn, his Empire, and to establish God's Kingdom on the earth. We'll have to come to our own conclusions.
Daniel 7 says nothing about the Son of Perdition, because Daniel was not allowed to see anything about the Church, only about Israel. The Son of Perdition comes at the end of the Church Age, during the time of the apostasy. The Rapture removes the chosen of the Church. After that, God deals with Israel, which is what is described in the latter parts of Daniel 7.
 
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WilliamLhk

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Revelation 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,
"...things which must shortly [ἐν τάχει] take place." ἐν τάχει means "quickly; with speed/speedily." That is, the events will take place in short order, but NOT necessarily soon.
John was instructed to go and measure the temple. The temple was therefore still standing.

Revelation 11:1-2 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple [naos] of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.
Revelation always uses naos in reference to the heavenly sanctuary, not an earthly one. We can know that is the case here by verse 2, which literally says "But cast out outside the court which is outside the temple [καὶ τὴν αὐλὴν τὴν ἔσωθεν τοῦ ναοῦ ἔκβαλε ἔξω]..."

This would be an impossible feat for John [or anyone else] to perform, if this were a physical temple! Later in the chapter, verse 19 says "Then the naos of God was opened in heaven..."

Jesus specifically said "this generation," and he was referring to the generation of the people listening to him that day.
According to the doctrine you've been taught. But the Greek means "the same generation..." -- speaking of the generation of the time of the fulfillment of the prophecy, so not necessarily the generation of the time of Jesus.
 
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RandyPNW

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Sure: the following covers the essentials:
64. Egypt, Part 1: Its Coming 40-Year Desolation Provides the evidence, from rarely-quoted biblical End Time prophecies, that reveals the length of, and details about, God’s coming End Time judgment of and later healing of Egypt. Egypt, Part 1: Its Coming 40-Year Desolation
Surely you're aware of alternative views of these passages? For one, you've conflated Eze 29.10 with Isa 11.15. Eze 29.10 refers to the defeat and humiliation of Egypt by Babylon in ancient times, involving a 40 year period of suppression.

Isa 11.15 may or may not refer to an ancient fulfillment, even though it clearly looks far into the future and the Messianic Kingdom. Ancient circumstances sometimes gave evidence for the direction history was going.

At any rate, you provide evidence, but not explicit proof. Thanks regardless. It's good to have "receipts."
Daniel 7 says nothing about the Son of Perdition, because Daniel was not allowed to see anything about the Church, only about Israel. The Son of Perdition comes at the end of the Church Age, during the time of the apostasy. The Rapture removes the chosen of the Church. After that, God deals with Israel, which is what is described in the latter parts of Daniel 7.
Daniel saw the Son of Man coming with the clouds of heaven. That is the NT era, which certainly includes the Church. When Daniel speaks of the "Little Horn" who will "speak against God" and "boast," it is a reference to the persecution of God's People, which is what the Jews of Daniel's time were. Today, that would be called the international Church. It is a group expanded from the Jews to include many nations.
 
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WilliamLhk

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Surely you're aware of alternative views of these passages? For one, you've conflated Eze 29.10 with Isa 11.15. Eze 29.10 refers to the defeat and humiliation of Egypt by Babylon in ancient times, involving a 40 year period of suppression.
You provide an unsupported opinion, which in no way was historically fulfilled. This is religious dogma you are parroting, not history. A good source for the history of Babylonian invasion of Egypt, and the restoration of government in Egypt shortly thereafter, can be found in Velikovsky's Ramses II and His Time.
At any rate, you provide evidence, but not explicit proof. Thanks regardless. It's good to have "receipts."
You provide neither evidence nor proof. Please don't apply a double standard.
Daniel saw the Son of Man coming with the clouds of heaven. That is the NT era, which certainly includes the Church.
Again, your word only, without any evidence.
When Daniel speaks of the "Little Horn" who will "speak against God" and "boast," it is a reference to the persecution of God's People, which is what the Jews of Daniel's time were. Today, that would be called the international Church. It is a group expanded from the Jews to include many nations.
Again, your word only, without any evidence.

If you are going to expect me to provide evidence for my statements, which I do, then you should be willing to do the same.
 
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Clare73

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Pre-wrath is a post-trib doctrine. Post-trib is not limited to a single version.

Agreed; they claim this without any evidence to back up their claim, because there isn't any. One of many unsupportable presumptions made by pre-tribbers.

Here we disagree significantly. The whole era [all 7 trumpets and all 7 bowls] will take 40 years, just as it did during the Exodus, and also in the corresponding 40-year period of testing of the Jews between the resurrection of Christ and the Jewish War.

Disagree. The Little Horn is not the Beast, but will only be its "mouth"/spokesman. Horns are men; beasts are fallen angels.

The Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition comes BEFORE the Parousia of the Lord, and is destroyed at that Parousia. 2 Thes. 2:8 The latter-day Little Horn and Beast both come AFTER the Parousia.
Parousia (1 Co 16:22) being the second coming of Christ, the horn and beast come after the second coming?
 
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RandyPNW

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Perhaps as Jesus HImself Spoke? > Will the Son of man find faith on earth ?
i.e. will there be two saints at all on earth, whether to take up into the sky or not ?
This is a conflation between two separate statements of Christ. The "2 will be, 1 taken and 1 left" is a reference to Israel's judgment in the time of ancient Rome. Rome judged Israel. They came, destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, and took away prisoners, leaving some to manage fields for them. It was not a righteous person and an unrighteous person. Both were unrighteous and were being judged when the Romans came!

Jesus' statement that he would find only little faith was true during his own earthly ministry, and it may be true when he comes again. The 1st time he came, Israel's faith appeared to collapse, if it had existed at any level at all. Faith often starts big and then comes to be exposed as hard times come and testing begins.

My point was that Eze 29 has an historical fulfillment, as opposed to your claim that it *proves* a future period of 40 years. Since very little credence has been placed in your view, historically, I can't accept it as credible.
 
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RandyPNW

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You provide an unsupported opinion, which in no way was historically fulfilled. This is religious dogma you are parroting, not history. A good source for the history of Babylonian invasion of Egypt, and the restoration of government in Egypt shortly thereafter, can be found in Velikovsky's Ramses II and His Time.
I looked up historical commentary on Eze 29. It was supported by the commentary I read.

Why do I need to read a history of Egypt when your argument was for a *future* 40 years period?

CLICK
 
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RandyPNW

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Huh? I have not ever posted about 40 years , or not recently that I remember. Long ago I might have, but not related to here.
Apparently you got into a disagreement I was having with someone else, who was arguing Eze 29 and 40 years (post #142). You inserted yourself into the argument, which led me to believe you were taking up his argument (post #145).
 
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WilliamLhk

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I looked up historical commentary on Eze 29. It was supported by the commentary I read.

Why do I need to read a history of Egypt when your argument was for a *future* 40 years period?

CLICK
Because you and your commentary said the prophecies I quoted were fulfilled in the past, and they weren't. Egypt was never depopulated when you say it was.
Ezekiel 29:10 …“I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate from Migdol [N. Egypt] to Syene [= Aswan, S Egypt], even unto the border of Ethiopia. 11 NEITHER FOOT OF MAN SHALL PASS THROUGH IT NOR FOOT OF BEAST PASS THROUGH IT, AND IT SHALL BE UNINHABITED FORTY YEARS. 12 I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the lands having been desolated; and among the cities that are laid waste, her cities shall be desolate forty years...
You say this prophecy takes place the same time as the prophecy of Ezekiel 29:20, but that is an entirely different prophecy, one that took place in Nebuchadnezzar's day, when the country recovered after that invasion, was governed by named historical rulers, and was most certainly populated during the whole period.
 
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WilliamLhk

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Parousia (1 Co 16:22) being the second coming of Christ, the horn and beast come after the second coming?
"The second coming of Christ" is not a term ever found in the NT. It is a doctrine of men, and it only serves to bring confusion to the discussion of end time events.

1) The parousia will be preceded by the Abomination of Desolation, the Great Tribulation, false christs, wars, famines and pestilences; and thereafter signs in the heavens and cataclysms on earth. Matt. 24:3, 27, 31.; much of which is mirrored in Rev. 6:1-14. And also by the apostasia, and the coming of the Son of Perdition/Lawless One. 2 Thes. 2:1-4, 8

2) The parousia will be concurrent with the resurrection of the dead, the gathering together of the believing saints by the angels of heaven, and these saints being caught up/raptured into the clouds of heaven. Matt. 24:30-31; 1 Cor. 15:21-23; 1 Thes 2:19; 3:13; 4:14-17

See the full article from which the above two points is excerpted here:

There is complete agreement among NT writers in the use of this term. Parousia is not used to describe Christ's defeat of the Beast and the nations. Because once the Lord reveals His Presence at the Parousia, He will thereafter continue to exercise his Presence in the world thereafter.
 
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Clare73

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"The second coming of Christ" is not a term ever found in the NT.
And?
You don't think coming "a second time" in the following qualifies as "the second coming of Christ," referred to in 1 Co 16:22 as parousia?

"Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so
Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people, and
he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him." (Heb 9:27-28)
It is a doctrine of man and it only serves to bring confusion to the discussion of end time events.
So Christ is not coming a second time to earth?
1) The parousia will be preceded by the Abomination of Desolation, the Great Tribulation, false christs, wars, famines and pestilences; and thereafter signs in the heavens and cataclysms on earth. Matt. 24:3, 27, 31.; much of which is mirrored in Rev. 6:1-14. And also by the apostasia, and the coming of the Son of Perdition/Lawless One. 2 Thes. 2:1-4, 8

2) The parousia will be concurrent with the resurrection of the dead, the gathering together of the believing saints by the angels of heaven, and these saints being caught up/raptured into the clouds of heaven. Matt. 24:30-31; 1 Cor. 15:21-23; 1 Thes 2:19; 3:13; 4:14-17
Yes, the pariousia (coming) refers to Christ ('s second) coming to the earth at the end of time for the one and only resurrection; i.e., of all mankind.
The word is used of citizens going out of the city to accompany back into the city an incoming dignatary, as in Jesus' entry into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday.
It refers to the rapture (harpazo, catching up) of the saints to meet the Lord in the air at his second coming (2 Th 4:16-17) to accompany him (descend) back to earth for the final judgment, in which they will assist (1 Co 6:2).
 
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Jan001

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"...things which must shortly [ἐν τάχει] take place." ἐν τάχει means "quickly; with speed/speedily." That is, the events will take place in short order, but NOT necessarily soon.
I disagree. The Book of Revelation was written for the people who were alive at that time, as were all the other books of the New Testament. This "soon" meant "imminent" or "near at hand." The letters that John wrote to the seven churches were literal Christian churches in that time period. Revelation 1:4-11
Revelation always uses naos in reference to the heavenly sanctuary, not an earthly one. We can know that is the case here by verse 2, which literally says "But cast out outside the court which is outside the temple [καὶ τὴν αὐλὴν τὴν ἔσωθεν τοῦ ναοῦ ἔκβαλε ἔξω]..."
Revelation 11:1-2 Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Come and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, 2 but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample over the holy city for forty-two months.

The Roman armies, which were comprised of soldiers from many nations, literally trampled the holy city of Jerusalem and then destroyed it within exactly forty-two months.
This would be an impossible feat for John [or anyone else] to perform, if this were a physical temple! Later in the chapter, verse 19 says "Then the naos of God was opened in heaven..."
This is a symbolic opening of the temple in heaven, not a literal one. There are no literal earthquakes or heavy hail in heaven.
The literal physical temple was still standing in Jerusalem on earth when John wrote the Book of Revelation.
According to the doctrine you've been taught. But the Greek means "the same generation..." -- speaking of the generation of the time of the fulfillment of the prophecy, so not necessarily the generation of the time of Jesus.
Jesus came to earth to literally fulfill the prophecies written about him in the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms in "this generation" of his companions.

Luke 24:44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you—that everything written about me in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms must be fulfilled.”

All of the things that Jesus prophesied for "this generation" were fulfilled by the end of AD 70.
 
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Clare73

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I disagree. The Book of Revelation was written for the people who were alive at that time, as were all the other books of the New Testament.
The NT was written for all those in Christ for all time.
This "soon" meant "imminent" or "near at hand."
Actually, "soon" did not, and does not mean "imminent" (immediately), which immanency Paul calls a deception, because the rapture cannot happen now, something must happen first, before the rapture can occur; i.e., the man of lawlessness has to be revealed first and only then can the rapture occur (2 Th 2:3).

"Imminent" and "near at hand" or "soon" are not the same.

The rapture was not imminent then, and it is not imminent now, for in both cases, it cannot happen now.
 
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Your post has so much in common with what I’ve found that it’s stunning. I wanted to share something I’ve found that should be right up your alley. I looked at the prophecy of the seventy sevens to see if I could find something in it that would tell me who among the many interpreters was correct. What I saw was different from the vast majority but not unheard of.

From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuildJerusalem until the Anointed One,[f] the ruler,comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’

What I saw was this is a prophecy of the coming of two different people. The coming of the Messiah is agreed upon by everyone as what is referenced here. But what about the ruler? Here we see the result of his coming.

The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[h] In the middle of the ‘seven’[i] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[j] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

So we see that both the ruler and the Messiah are said to come. The Messiah comes after the 62 and then, after he comes, is cut off. That leaves the coming of the ruler. If the Messiah came after the 62 then the ruler must come after the seven sevens. Remember the first part.

From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuildJerusalem until the Anointed One,[f] the ruler,comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’

It’s intertwined. Both the ruler and the Messiah will come after a set period of time that follows a decree. The decree to rebuild will be in the future and the decree to restore is now in the past. When Nehemiah installed his code to run the city and the temple as intended by God, it was 433/434 BC. 62 sevens later (62x7x360 days), Jesus was born in 5/6 BC. That’s 428 years. Literally the time between the testaments is 62 sevens.

That means the seven sevens will start in the future and culminate with the start of the final seven years. There was a decree issued to rebuild Jerusalem in 1967 but the time was not right. Then, in 1980, that 1967 decree was expanded into the Jerusalem Law. July 30, 1980. If you count forward 7x7x360 days you come to Nov 14, 2028. 2000 years after Jesus dies in 28ad and 80 years after 1948. Pope Francis has a seven year plan for climate change and the WEF SDGs at the United Nations. His seven year plan ends on THE EXACT SAME DAY,Nov 14, 2028. 1260 days before that is Pentecost 2025. The Pope has named 2025 a special jubilee year. They are having the first-ever General Assembly and Global Encounter in Assisi on Pentecost. The New Age movement expects to get the date for the “manifestation of the hierarchy” at their 5 day Festival of Goodwill that starts the next day. They are having a General Assembly and Global Encounter with the Masters of Wisdom. If you start at Nov 14 2028 and count forward 1260 days you come to Lag BaOmer 2032. According to the story of the failed attempt at building the third temple by the Emperor Julian in 363ad, the Jews started Lag BaOmer at that time. They laid the cornerstone, or attempted to, on the 33rd day of the counting of the Omer as a way of celebrating the death of Jesus at age 33. The two witnesses will take the stage 83 years after 1948. When their ministry ends, it will be during the Days of Awe. 3 1/2 days later, when they are raised, it would be Yom Kippur. If you start at Lag BaOmer 2032 and count forward 1290 days you come to the day the children of Israel celebrate the crossing of the River Jordan into the promised land. 1335 days takes you to Christmas Eve 2035. The next day, when the sun goes down, Hannukah begins.

Bill Gates has a five year plan called 50in5. The plan is to bring digital id and banking to 50 countries in five years. That plan ends Nov 7, 2028. That is also Election Day in the US and one week before the popes seven year plan ends.

The UN has quite a few plans that are culminating into one plan to satisfy the requirements of the Agenda 2030. The second global stocktake is meant to accomplish this goal. It takes place in November 2028 but not date has been set yet. It’s possible that it will be set at the Summit of the Future this fall.

There could easily be a fake seven years starting in 2025. They would call the real abomination of desolation in 2032, the end of the age and beginning of the millennium.

Agenda 2030 was passed at Sukkot as the fourth blood moon of the 2014/2015 tetrad rose. The next tetrad of blood moons will start a few days before the abomination in 2032. Blood moon is the 25th and the abomination is 3 1/2 days later.

I know this seems to contradict what others have said. My take on that is that I think we can both be right. The seventy sevens is unlikely to be a single faceted project. It’s my belief that it’s true in more than one way. But this is the big one.

The New Agers have been waiting since 1945 for 2025 to come. In 1945, both Hitler and Goebbels killed themselves on Lag Baomer. 1260 days later was the first Yom Kippur(1948) for Israel since 70ad. This mirrors the abomination being 1260 days before Yom Kippur in 2032. The larger point here is that in 1945, when the New Age World Teacher made the prediction that the hierarchy would make them selves know in 2025 and would make known the date of their physical manifestation as well, they didn’t know when the seven sevens would begin but they were making an educated guess that the count would have started within 80 years. Israel was about to be reborn and they knew that. They also knew about the 80 years. They quote it from scripture. Next year, after the Pope has his global meeting on Pentecost and the New Agers have theirs the day after to get the date of the manifestation, maybe we will have further confirmation of the timeline. Until then though, I still see it as confirmed.
 
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Jan001

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The NT was written for all those in Christ for all time.
First, it was written for all the Christians in the first century. It pertained to their own time.
We do have benefit of it now, and will until the end of time.
Actually, "soon" did not, and does not mean "imminent" (immediately), which immanency Paul calls a deception, because the rapture cannot happen now, something must happen first, before the rapture can occur; i.e., the man of lawlessness has to be revealed first and only then can the rapture occur (2 Th 2:3).
John wrote the Book of Revelation for the Christians in his own time. It was to warn them of what was to soon happen in their own lives.

We have benefit of it still today. It is a historical record for us of what was to happen imminently to those Christians in that time period.

The man of lawlessness was the Caesar Nero.

The so-called rapture will occur when Jesus returns for his second and final "physical" coming to earth.
"Imminent" and "near at hand" or "soon" are not the same.

The rapture was not imminent then, and it is not imminent now, for in both cases, it cannot happen now.

The "rapture" will not occur until the end of time.
 
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WilliamLhk

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And?
You don't think coming "a second time" in the following qualifies as "the second coming of Christ," referred to in 1 Co 16:22 as parousia?

"Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, so
Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people, and
he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him." (Heb 9:27-28)
This literally reads "He will appear out [of the heavenly tabernacle] a second time..." In the context, the passage is speaking about the two in-and-out appearances Christ must make with His shed blood into the heavenly Holy of Holies, per the type foreshadowed in Leviticus 16's Day of Atonement ritual. So this passage does not have the meaning about First and Second Comings in the sense that you are using them.
So Christ is not coming a second time to earth?
Christ has already come to earth more than once; e.g. at His birth, and again after His resurrection and ascension to heaven (apparently multiple times), during the 40 days of His appearances to His disciples.
Yes, the parousia (coming) refers to Christ ('s second) coming to the earth at the end of time for the one and only resurrection; i.e., of all mankind.
All mankind haven't been, and won't be, resurrected at only one time. For example, the Two Witnesses will be resurrected at a different time than those of the rapture.
 
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WilliamLhk

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I disagree. The Book of Revelation was written for the people who were alive at that time, as were all the other books of the New Testament. This "soon" meant "imminent" or "near at hand."
Your opinion only, to which Clare73 correctly answered. The people alive during much of the period of the Apostles certainly did believe in the return of Christ in their day, although He never told them any such thing. On the contrary, He told them “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority." Acts 1:7
It is evident that Peter finally figured out just prior to his death that Christ was actually not coming soon, when he wrote "But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:8, 9


The letters that John wrote to the seven churches were literal Christian churches in that time period. Revelation 1:4-11

Revelation 11:1-2 Then I was given a measuring rod like a staff, and I was told, “Come and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there, 2 but do not measure the court outside the temple; leave that out, for it is given over to the nations, and they will trample over the holy city for forty-two months.


The Roman armies, which were comprised of soldiers from many nations, literally trampled the holy city of Jerusalem and then destroyed it within exactly forty-two months.

This is a symbolic opening of the temple in heaven, not a literal one. There are no literal earthquakes or heavy hail in heaven.
The literal physical temple was still standing in Jerusalem on earth when John wrote the Book of Revelation.
Nothing physical about this temple, because it literally reads "cast out outside the court" of the temple, a physical impossibility. Only a spiritual sense of the Word will suffice to understand the meaning of this statement.
Jesus came to earth to literally fulfill the prophecies written about him in the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms in "this generation" of his companions.

Luke 24:44 Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you—that everything written about me in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms must be fulfilled.”

All of the things that Jesus prophesied for "this generation" were fulfilled by the end of AD 70.
The Greek literally means "the same generation," speaking of ones living in the time that the prophecy would be fulfilled. That time being undefined.
 
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Jan001

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Your opinion only, to which Clare73 correctly answered. The people alive during much of the period of the Apostles certainly did believe in the return of Christ in their day, although He never told them any such thing. On the contrary, He told them “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority." Acts 1:7
It is evident that Peter finally figured out just prior to his death that Christ was actually not coming soon, when he wrote "But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:8, 9
How do you know for sure what Peter actually thought?

The Christians of that day were expecting judgment for the Jews because of Jesus' own prophecies and those in the Book of Revelation concerning their time period.
Nothing physical about this temple, because it literally reads "cast out outside the court" of the temple, a physical impossibility. Only a spiritual sense of the Word will suffice to understand the meaning of this statement.

Where do you find "cast out the court?"

John measured the physical court that was still standing on earth. The Roman armies did indeed trample it soon after, for 42 months, as prophesied:

Revelation 11:2 but exclude the court that is outside the temple; do not measure it because it has been given to the nations. And they will trample the holy city for forty-two months. MOUNCE

Jesus told the Christians that when they saw Jerusalem surrounded by armies, they must flee, and so they did. Many fled to Pella.

Luke 21:20-21 “When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. 21 Then those in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those inside the city must leave it, and those out in the country must not enter it
The Greek literally means "the same generation," speaking of ones living in the time that the prophecy would be fulfilled. That time being undefined.
Jesus claimed it would be "in this generation."

All of this had occurred by the end of AD 70 in that very same generation, as did the following:

This generation
 
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