Can "salvation", be "forfeit"?

[Rightglory]

Genez,

I included Young's literal translation. The word holds the meaning of being disqualified. Paul was using a Roman's game competition analogy. When running a race in Rome, and not winning the prize, one was not cast away. BUT!

It still means the same thing, to be outside of Christ. If faith qualifies a believer then no faith, dead faith, being unfaithful, disqualifies you. It means you are no longer being saved. One is being saved ONLY as long as one remains faithfully IN Christ.

Yet, many a believer will be cast into "outer darkness" while the Millennium goes on. They will not be granted authority to be a part of the Kingdom to reign with Christ.

Only because they have become unbelievers. They fell from being a believer. It is hell, it has nothing to do with the millennium which is in progress as we discuss. And you are right, unbelivers do not reign with Christ.

Outer darkness is not what the Lake of Fire is. The weeping and gnashing of teeth will be from being denied the deep desire not to be left out of the glories of reigning in the Kingdom with Christ. (Thank you - Professor Ashby)

It is a simple description of hell. And it does preclude reigning with Christ obviously.

So, Paul could have had that in mind. For the prize will be to reign with Christ. Not all believers will. Only those who overcome, will.

Of course not all believers who were believers in this life have overcome, many have fallen away, which is what we are discussing. But ALL those that do overcome will be with Christ and reign with Him.

Those who do not overcome will not be sent to the Lake of Fire.

There are ONLY two dwelling places in eternity. Heaven or Hell. If not IN Christ, or heaven, then the only other option is hell. Do you see a third? or fourth?

They will be cast out away from the Kingdom of the Millennium into an outer darkness until its over. They will await in outer darkness. They will have great anguish during this time of being denied - weeping and gnashing of teeth. For, these ones will be denied reigning with Christ.

Christ ascended into Heaven and sits on the Right Hand of the Father and is currently reigning. That reign will never end. So just what do you think might come after eternity, which is never ending.

"If we endure, we will also reign with Him;
If we deny Him, He also will deny us."

How much plainer could it be. If we overcome, if we endure, if we remain faithful we shall be saved, we shall reign with HIm. BUT, if we fall, if we become faithless, unfaithful which is denying Him, He WILL DENY US BEFORE HIS FATHER. How plain can that be a believer can reject Christ, can deny Him at any time in this life. If he remains unrepentant upon death, He IS NOT SAVED.

"If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward.
If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames."

But this has nothing to do with believers falling away. This pertains ONLY to those who endured, who remained faithful to the end. Has nothing to do with believers/unbelievers in this life who can freely move from one position to the other.

There will be a loss of eternal rewards because some lived by false doctrine as a way of life after they were saved. BUT! It says what? They will be saved from the Lake of Fire!

But it does not say that at all. If you became apostate, if you became disqualified, if you did not endure, you will never be refined. You do not enter into His rest in order to become refined which is what the text is explaining. ONLY the overcomers, the faithful, the enduring ones will enter to be refined. It does not address all those that fell by the wayside during their lives here on earth.
You seem to put your whole theology on one verse I Cor 3:15 and it does not even address the topic at hand. It is a classic example of prooftexting. Lifting out of context to support another presupposition which is also false, that one cannot fall from faith.

 

[GenemZ]

Moved post to the correct placement.


Hope someone fixes this bug.

 

[GenemZ]

Originally Posted by Ormly
What "false" doctrine could it be that man could embrace and still be saved?

Well, for one. To think if one has false doctrinal beliefs, that he can not be saved.

You really are missing a whole bunch about what is being shared here. According to what you are letting me know about your beliefs?

There should be no evaluation of believers. For we are either saved, and did everything perfectly (reason we were saved).. Or, we are not saved if we believed something false in our belief system. That's how you come across.

Yet, you appear to be ignoring the truth that some believers will live by false concepts and dead works (wood, hay, and stubble) Yet, the Bible says they will be saved. What they do lose is not their salvation. But, they lose rewards that would have been associated with their salvation.


In Christ, GeneZ

 

[nobdysfool]

Out of sync. relocated

 

[nobdysfool]

Well, for one. To think if one has false doctrinal beliefs, that he can not be saved.

You really are missing a whole bunch about what is being shared here. According to what you are letting me know about your beliefs?

There should be no evaluation of believers. For we are either saved, and did everything perfectly (reason we were saved).. Or, we are not saved if we believed something false in our belief system. That's how you come across.

Yet, you appear to be ignoring the truth that some believers will live by false concepts and dead works (wood, hay, and stubble) Yet, the Bible says they will be saved. What they do lose is not their salvation. But, they lose rewards that would have been associated with their salvation.


In Christ, GeneZ

We see a few here, who, in order to push what they consider to be "more perfect understanding", try to marginalize those who are not so easily beguiled by strange emphasis, and strange interpretations of scripture.

 

[Ormly]

Well, for one. To think if one has false doctrinal beliefs, that he can not be saved.

Suppose he gets into false doctrine after he is saved to the point of apostacy?

You really are missing a whole bunch about what is being shared here. According to what you are letting me know about your beliefs?

There should be no evaluation of believers. For we are either saved, and did everything perfectly (reason we were saved).. Or, we are not saved if we believed something false in our belief system. That's how you come across.

Falseness is usely evidenced in some way that reveals the character of the believer where judgment about such an one becomes self evident.

Yet, you appear to be ignoring the truth that some believers will live by false concepts and dead works (wood, hay, and stubble) Yet, the Bible says they will be saved. What they do lose is not their salvation. But, they lose rewards that would have been associated with their salvation.

Not really. Consider there are those who don't even meet the wood, hay, stuble criteria. What of them and why should be so except the gospel preached today is an incomplete "nominal" message giving a false sense of security?

 

[GenemZ]

Genez,

possibly, but any believer has an imperfect journey to perfection, which he will not attain in this life. We do a lot of things that are not faith motivated. But that does not mean we are being unfaithful.

Ever hear of dead works? Wood, hay, and stubble? The consequences of carnality in Christianity are dead works.


That does mean the believer was unfaithful.

But? He may have been very faithful to his false concepts. Yet? He was not faithful to Christ.

God does not honor faithfulness in itself. It all depends on the object of where one places his faithfulness. Many of Hitler's followers we faithful to Hitler. So?

When a faithful believer, an overcomer, enters heaven they will be purified. The text has nothing to do with those living on earth and still striving to be faithful to the end.

All believers overcome the world when they placed their faith in Christ. But, that speaks of positional truth. It speaks in regards to what we will become at the resurrection.

Those believers who overcome now by walking in grace and truth? These ones are those who persevered and fought for sound doctrine to have in their spirit. So their soul can think and OVERCOME the evils that surround us in this world.

1 Timothy 4:16 (New International Version)
"Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers."
​

We become overcomers by what we think. We may not be able to change the world, but in our minds we do not surrender to it. We overcome by means of thinking with sound doctrine.

False doctrine does not overcome the world. False doctrine is a compromise that conforms to the world, yet those who accept it, live in the pretense of having truth.

Many are FAITHFUL to what's false doctrine. They self righteously think God is pleased with their stubborn refusal to have their thinking changed. God is not pleased by faithfulness alone. He is only pleased by those filled with his FAITH.

Romans 10:17 (New International Version)
"Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ."
​

Those who believe what is false are faithful to their false concepts about God's Word! But, they are not faithful. Not, 'full of faith.'

2 Timothy 2:12-13 (New International Version)
"if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
if we are faithless,
he will remain faithful,
for he cannot disown himself."
​

As you can read? Believers can be faithless.

The only approved faith some possess is their believing that Jesus died on the Cross for their sins. After they were saved, they then wander off into all sorts of false concepts and teachings that appeals to their natural way of feeling and thinking about life.

Proverbs 14:12 (New International Version)
"There is a way that seems right to a man,
but in the end it leads to death."
​

The Word of God remains in writing as to stand in contradiction to our natural way of seeing things. Some spin the Word to try and preserve their natural way of viewing God and life.

Matthew 16:25 (New International Version)
"For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it."


​

Others, willingly deny self preference when they see the Word does not agree with their wishful thinking... Take up their cross... And, become transformed in their minds towards Christ.


That is why Eternal security is so offensive to some. For, they know if they were God? They would not allow for such a thing! They must pay!

But, we are not God. Yet, some don't accept this. They assume that God must feel as they do about such a thing. They believe a Christian can lose their salvation. Because, if they were God? That's how it would be!

So? These ones seek out isolated passages to satisfy their desire to be more like Allah, than God. They do not realize this, of course. For, they think they are being "faithful."

John 6:39 (New International Version)
"And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day."
​

What a pity... Wood , hay, and stubble, will be what some only see evaluated by the Lord. Burned up right before their eyes.

Galatians 6:8 (niv)
"The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life."

​

After they see their wood, hay, and stubble, destroyed, these folks will be cast into outer darkness while they are denied reigning with Christ during the glorious Millennium of God's kingdom on earth. They will be castaways.

While waiting a thousand years in the darkness they will be weeping and gnashing their teeth. They will be saved. They will never taste the torments of the Lake of Fire.

Later; after the Millennium ends, they will be brought back to live in the Eternal Kingdom of God.






.

 

[GenemZ]

out of sync, again. moved!​

 

[GenemZ]

Originally Posted by Rightglory
There are ONLY two dwelling places in eternity. Heaven or Hell. If not IN Christ, or heaven, then the only other option is hell. Do you see a third? or fourth?

There is a temporary place where the unfaithful resurrected believer will wait in as those who were faithful will reign with Christ for the Millennium on earth.

Matthew 8:11-12 (New American Standard Bible)
"I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
​

The Lake of Fire is never referred to as being an outer darkness. It burns! Not simply darkness. And, the torments the LOF induces will way exceed simply a weeping and gnashing of teeth.

This weeping and gnashing of teeth reveals the depth of regret and disappointment the believer will face as he is left out of partaking of reigning with Christ during the Millennium. Ever been not invited to a party and felt the dejection of being left out? Amplify that a million times, and know how those in outer darkness will feel as they are denied their reward of reigning with Christ.


Besides! Jesus would never call an unbeliever a "son of the kingdom."

Matthew 8:11-12 (New American Standard Bible)
"I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

​

What prompted Jesus to go into his talk about unfaithful believers? The Centurion had just revealed the kind of faith Christ seeks in the believer.

Matthew 8:10 (New American Standard Bible)
"Now when Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those who were following, "Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith with anyone in Israel."



​

The issue in the resurrection when we are to be evaluated, will be? What we based our faith upon. The true Word of God? Or, false doctrines.

Did we abide in the Spirit, and walk in grace and truth? [gold , silver, and precious stones].

Or? Did we abide in our emotions, and walk in doctrines that appealed to our particular natural leanings? [wood, hay, and stubble].

2 Timothy 4:3 (New American Standard Bible)
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires."
​

The Spirit goes contrary to our flesh. And, the flesh goes contrary to the Spirit.

So? If we truly desire to know Christ?

We must deny self - take up our cross - and ENDURE sound doctrine. Its a process of growth to maturity in Christ!


Sound doctrine? Truth which will grind our self righteous natural ways of seeing things into the dust. Humiliation leads to humility when its the Truth that does the humiliating.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires."
​

.

 

[Rightglory]

Genez,

You have not presented anything new whatsoever. You are simply repeating your matra which has already been shown not to be scripture as it has always been understood.
You have created a very humanistic gospel whereby just about everyone qualifies and no one is disqualified no matter what kind of life they might live.
Christianity is not about knowing, it is about living IN Christ. It is all about obedience to His will. It is what we do in this life that determines our eternal abode.
You have presented your personal interpretation but have given no evidence, no historical credence to this theory. As far as I can determine this has never seen the light of day in Christianity ever. No one has presented such a false dichotomy of what it means to be IN Christ.
Also, you have given not a single response to the responses I made thus have contributed nothing to the discussion.

 

[Ben johnson]

Cannot this be very easily construed to mean faithlessness? How about faithful but presumptive?

There are several perspectives, that are coincident; and there are some that are coincident the other way.

One who believes, receives Jesus, walks in Him and in repentance; invites the Holy Spirit, strives for righteousness (by HIS power).

One who walks in sin, does not believe, does not abide with Jesus, has not faith.

Peter is clear in 2:1:5-10; often mistranslated "add to your faith" (as if saving-faith can be COMPLIMENTED), it really reads "supply in your faith" --- the attributes are not optional. He lists things like:
Godliness
Moral excellence
Kindness
Brotherly Love
Self-Control

Then Peter says, "He who LACKS these things is blind/short-sighted, has FORGOTTEN former purification from sin."

Formerly-purified, can only be saved.
Lacking godly qualities and forgotten former purification, can only be unsaved.

Then follows a warning to us: "THEREFORE (against that man who FORGOT his former purification from sins), we must be all the more diligent to make sure of our calling and election; as long as these attributes are YOURS, you are usefull ...will not become wretched ("ptaio", stumble/become-wretched).[/b] In THIS way the gates of Heaven will BE (abundantly) provided."

I put parentheses around "abundantly", because it's rhetorical; there is no SPARSE entrance to Heaven (for the impure) --- it's either ABUNDANT, or not at ALL.

This is one of the clearest verses about "forfeitable salvation"....

 

[Ben johnson]

Cannot this be very easily construed to mean faithlessness? How about faithful but presumptive?

There are several perspectives, that are coincident; and there are some that are coincident the other way

One who believes, receives Jesus, walks in Him and in repentance; invites the Holy Spirit, strives for righteousness (by HIS power).

One who walks in sin, does not believe, does not abide with Jesus, has not faith.

Peter is clear in 2:1:5-10; often mistranslated "add to your faith" (as if saving-faith can be COMPLIMENTED with attributes that are not ESSENTIAL), it really reads "supply in your faith" --- the attributes are not optional. He lists things like:
Godliness
Moral excellence
Kindness
Brotherly Love
Self-Control

Then Peter says, "He who LACKS these things is blind/short-sighted, has FORGOTTEN former purification from sin."

Formerly-purified, can only be saved.
Lacking godly qualities and forgotten former purification, can only be unsaved.

Then follows a warning to us: "THEREFORE (against that man who FORGOT his former purification from sins), we must be all the more diligent to make sure of our calling and election; as long as these attributes are YOURS, you are usefull ...will not become wretched ("ptaio", stumble/become-wretched).[/b] In THIS way the gates of Heaven will BE (abundantly) provided."

I put parentheses around "abundantly", because it's rhetorical; there is no SPARSE entrance to Heaven (for the impure) --- it's either ABUNDANT, or not at ALL.

This is one of the clearest verses about "forfeitable salvation"....

 

[Rightglory]

Genez,

You have not presented anything new whatsoever. You are simply repeating your matra which has already been shown not to be scripture as it has always been understood.
You have created a very humanistic gospel whereby just about everyone qualifies and no one is disqualified no matter what kind of life they might live.
Christianity is not about knowing, it is about living IN Christ. It is all about obedience to His will. It is what we do in this life that determines our eternal abode.
You have presented your personal interpretation but have given no evidence, no historical credence to this theory. As far as I can determine this has never seen the light of day in Christianity ever. No one has presented such a false dichotomy of what it means to be IN Christ.
Also, you have given not a single response to the responses I made thus have contributed nothing to the discussion.

 

[Rightglory]

Genez,

There is a temporary place where the unfaithful resurrected believer will wait in as those who were faithful will reign with Christ for the Millennium on earth.

There is nothing temporary about heaven or hell.
There is also no such thing as an unfaithful resurrected believer. There are ONLY faithful believers. Unfaithful ones have become unbelievers. Those that have died IN Christ since time began are currently reigning with Christ NOW.

"I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

You do a great job at prooftexting.
This verse in the context is Jesus speaking to the Centurion and states that his faith is greater than in all Isreal. Jesus is comparing the Gentile to the Jews. The Jews have in large part forsaken Him. Without being rude and too direct Jesus simply states that many will come from east and west, (Gentiles) and will sit at the feet of Abraham, a believing Jew of the past. He is not forsaking all Jews, but then adds that the Sons of the Kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. The promises of the OT were made to Isreal, Isreal is being cast out because of their unbelief. There is nothing here to even hint that both believers and those unfaithful will be together in heaven. It is clearly a separation of heaven and hell. It has that same connotation throughout scripture.

The Spirit goes contrary to our flesh. And, the flesh goes contrary to the Spirit.

Yes, and this is the war that exist in every single believer. It is the contrast between heaven and hell. If we live by the flesh we shall not be saved, Hell. If we live by the spirit we shall be saved, Heaven. Very simple comparison and these comparisons are all over the NT.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons
1 Timothy 5:12 Having condemnation because they have cast off their first faith.
1 Timothy 5:15 For some have already turned aside after Satan.
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
1 Timothy 6:20,21 O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge -- by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith.

Here are some very explicit texts which condemns your view. The only way to refute these texts is to find even a hint of a text that says we can also be saved through no faith, lack of faith or unfaithfulness. Can you do that? If you can you view will stand. You will need to show that one can be saved and condemned at the same time, You will need to show that one can be IN Christ and IN Satan at the same time. Can you do that?
Here is another and there are legions more....
Hebrews 3:12,13 "Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin."
Can we be saved even though we depart from the living "God in unbelief? Which text refutes this one?

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires."

So far you have shown that this text aptly fits your interpretation. A view that has no historical witness as having ever been believed and preserved as the Gospel once given to the Apostles.

 

[Rightglory]

Genez,

There is a temporary place where the unfaithful resurrected believer will wait in as those who were faithful will reign with Christ for the Millennium on earth.

There is nothing temporary about heaven or hell.
There is also no such thing as an unfaithful resurrected believer. There are ONLY faithful believers. Unfaithful ones have become unbelievers. Those that have died IN Christ since time began are currently reigning with Christ NOW.

"I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

You do a great job at prooftexting.
This verse in the context is Jesus speaking to the Centurion and states that his faith is greater than in all Isreal. Jesus is comparing the Gentile to the Jews. The Jews have in large part forsaken Him. Without being rude and too direct Jesus simply states that many will come from east and west, (Gentiles) and will sit at the feet of Abraham, a believing Jew of the past. He is not forsaking all Jews, but then adds that the Sons of the Kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. The promises of the OT were made to Isreal, Isreal is being cast out because of their unbelief. There is nothing here to even hint that both believers and those unfaithful will be together in heaven. It is clearly a separation of heaven and hell. It has that same connotation throughout scripture.

The Spirit goes contrary to our flesh. And, the flesh goes contrary to the Spirit.

Yes, and this is the war that exist in every single believer. It is the contrast between heaven and hell. If we live by the flesh we shall not be saved, Hell. If we live by the spirit we shall be saved, Heaven. Very simple comparison and these comparisons are all over the NT.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons
1 Timothy 5:12 Having condemnation because they have cast off their first faith.
1 Timothy 5:15 For some have already turned aside after Satan.
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
1 Timothy 6:20,21 O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge -- by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith.

Here are some very explicit texts which condemns your view. The only way to refute these texts is to find even a hint of a text that says we can also be saved through no faith, lack of faith or unfaithfulness. Can you do that? If you can you view will stand. You will need to show that one can be saved and condemned at the same time, You will need to show that one can be IN Christ and IN Satan at the same time. Can you do that?
Here is another and there are legions more....
Hebrews 3:12,13 "Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin."
Can we be saved even though we depart from the living "God in unbelief? Which text refutes this one?

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires."

So far you have shown that this text aptly fits your interpretation. A view that has no historical witness as having ever been believed and preserved as the Gospel once given to the Apostles.

 

[Rightglory]

Genez,

There is a temporary place where the unfaithful resurrected believer will wait in as those who were faithful will reign with Christ for the Millennium on earth.

There is nothing temporary about heaven or hell.
There is also no such thing as an unfaithful resurrected believer. There are ONLY faithful believers. Unfaithful ones have become unbelievers. Those that have died IN Christ since time began are currently reigning with Christ NOW.

"I say to you that many will come from east and west, and recline at the table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; but the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

You do a great job at prooftexting.
This verse in the context is Jesus speaking to the Centurion and states that his faith is greater than in all Isreal. Jesus is comparing the Gentile to the Jews. The Jews have in large part forsaken Him. Without being rude and to direct Jesus simply states that many will come from east and west, (Gentiles) and will sit at the feet of Abraham, a believing Jew of the past. He is not forsaking all Jews, but then adds that the Sons of the Kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. The promises of the OT were made to Isreal, Isreal is being cast out because of their unbelief. There is nothing here to even hint that both believers and those unfaithful will be together in heaven. It is clearly a separation of heaven and hell. It has that same connotation throughout scripture.

The Spirit goes contrary to our flesh. And, the flesh goes contrary to the Spirit.

Yes, and this is the war that exist in every single believer. It is the contrast between heaven and hell. If we live by the flesh we shall not be saved, Hell. If we live by the spirit we shall be saved, Heaven. Very simple comparison and these comparisons are all over the NT.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons
1 Timothy 5:12 Having condemnation because they have cast off their first faith.
1 Timothy 5:15 For some have already turned aside after Satan.
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
1 Timothy 6:20,21 O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge -- by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith.

Here are some very explicit texts which condemns your view. The only way to refute these texts is to find even a hint of a text that says we can also be saved through no faith, lack of faith or unfaithfulness. Can you do that? If you can you view will stand. You will need to show that one can be saved and condemned at the same time, You will need to show that one can be IN Christ and IN Satan at the same time. Can you do that?
Here is another and there are legions more....
Hebrews 3:12,13 "Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin."
Can we be saved even though we depart from the living "God in unbelief? Which text refutes this one?

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires."

So far you have shown that this text aptly fits your interpretation. A view that has no historical witness as having ever been believed and preserved as the Gospel once given to the Apostles.

 

[GenemZ]

Bug delete!

 

[GenemZ]

Bug delete!

 

[GenemZ]

BUG! delete!

 

[GenemZ]

Originally Posted by Rightglory
Genez,

There is also no such thing as an unfaithful resurrected believer.

I did not say there was such a thing. You do not read what is being said. There is a big difference between what you just said, and what I actually said.

I said believers who WERE unfaithful before they died? Will be resurrected, and will be shown to have a loss of rewards because of their lack of faithfulness while alive on the earth.

Its quite simple, sir.

I will repeat myself, because you have not been able to grasp it the other times I showed you this same passage. Hopefully, this time it will finally sink in.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 (New American Standard Bible)
​

"For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.



If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.

If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire."









​

So? You are now telling us that a believer can lose all his rewards? Was because he was faithful?

Make up your mind, please. Does the Word tell the Truth? Or, does the tradition you have received, counter it?




.