Calvinism, explained.

[ToBeLoved]

Well, I would rebuke them. Calvinists should be gracious to everyone in the same way God was gracious to them.

Of course, because your one of the club. Your one of them.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Well, I would rebuke them. Calvinists should be gracious to everyone in the same way God was gracious to them.

Well, whenever you hear them then you should respond. Yes?

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Of course, because your one of the club. Your one of them.

I don't catch your meaning.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Well, whenever you hear them then you should respond. Yes?

Yeah, why not--I think I did once earlier in this thread. I would first address the person struggling with assurance, though. I used to struggle with assurance too until I found the Doctrines of Grace.

 

[Aldebaran]

How else would God's full glory be revealed? He will be glorified for His justice against sinners and for His grace in choosing to save some. If He saved everyone then we would not see His justice: If He saved no one then we would not see His grace and mercy.

If only some are elected, then how can punishment for those not elected by justice???

 

[ToBeLoved]

Yes, His sheep: Everyone who believes and is saved. Some are not his sheep.

If He died for every single person as some believe, then no one would be sent to the lake of fire because justice was already served on the cross.

Will you kindly go back to post 899 then and refute the scripture that I listed.

Those scriptures say all, Jesus would have to have died for all to save all.

Plus it says in Romans that Jesus CONQUERED sin. Dead. Bye, bye.

How do you explain God's Word saying that Jesus conquered sin?

 

[ClothedInGrace]

If only some are elected, then how can punishment for those not elected by justice???

Those who are not elect are only getting what they deserve. God is not obligated to elect or save any sinner.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Will you kindly go back to post 899 then and refute the scripture that I listed.

Those scriptures say all, Jesus would have to have died for all to save all.

Plus it says in Romans that Jesus CONQUERED sin. Dead. Bye, bye.

How do you explain God's Word saying that Jesus conquered sin?

That would take an awfully long time. I already told you that you interpret "all" and "everyone" in a universal way, when in context they don't always mean that. "All" and "world" often times refers to Jews and Gentiles as opposed to just Jews: Before Christ salvation was thought to be only for the Israel. All people can mean all kinds of people, like it does in 1 Timothy 2:4 when you read the context about praying for kings and people in authority. In 2 Peter 3:9 he is writing to the church and says God is "patient towards you," and not wanting any to perish in that context, but not necessarily for everyone. If there is a particular verse you need help with then let me know.

 

[Hoghead1]

The problem, Clothed, is that Calvin argues the elect and the reprobate were predestined to be so. They have no choice in the matter. Most of the human race is reprobate. How unfortunate God would create the vast majority of persons, only to damn them. And why? Calvin strongly implies this is to give God glory and honor. But at the same time, Calvin contends God needs nothing at all from us or from creation.

 

[EmSw]

I don't disagree with any of those verses. I disagree with the notion that Jesus wants to save every human soul but can't do it.

What about God wanting, desiring, and decreeing His elect to live a holy, pure, righteous, godly, and loving life, but can't even get those He chose to do it.

 

[EmSw]

Free will teaches a sinner can of their own will choose to love God. We believe that man's wills are enslaved to sin and need to be freed by the Spirit in order to come to Christ. How can a sinner hate God one moment then love Him the next? Why do you love God and another person doesn't? We give glory to God: You say it's free will.

If a person doesn't love God freely of himself, it will soon come to naught. Man, in his love for himself, does not want others to tell him what to do. Jesus said if we love Him, keep His commandments. I can't tell how many have said they can't keep His commandments, or how many have said this isn't for me. I can't tell you how many say they have no use for Ezekiel 18:31. If God's love is forced upon a man, instead of freely willed, they minimize good works, even putting evil works as saving.

It is not giving God glory by not obeying His commands, dismissing His sovereign word, and keeping sin in your heart.

 

[sdowney717]

The problem, Clothed, is that Calvin argues the elect and the reprobate were predestined to be so. They have no choice in the matter. Most of the human race is reprobate. How unfortunate God would create the vast majority of persons, only to damn them. And why? Calvin strongly implies this is to give God glory and honor. But at the same time, Calvin contends God needs nothing at all from us or from creation.

"Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because I tell you, many will try to enter and won't be able." Luke 13:23-24

"Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it.

How narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life!

Few are those who find it." Matthew 7:13-14

 

[ClothedInGrace]

If a person doesn't love God freely of himself, it will soon come to naught. Man, in his love for himself, does not want others to tell him what to do. Jesus said if we love Him, keep His commandments. I can't tell how many have said they can't keep His commandments, or how many have said this isn't for me. I can't tell you how many say they have no use for Ezekiel 18:31. If God's love is forced upon a man, instead of freely willed, they minimize good works, even putting evil works as saving.

It is not giving God glory by not obeying His commands, dismissing His sovereign word, and keeping sin in your heart.

But, in the same way, can't a person who chooses of his free will to love God also with that same free will choose to hate Him? If salvation depends upon the wills of men then how can anyone have assurance? I have assurance because I know my salvation is God's will.

John 1:12-13
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

The problem, Clothed, is that Calvin argues the elect and the reprobate were predestined to be so. They have no choice in the matter. Most of the human race is reprobate. How unfortunate God would create the vast majority of persons, only to damn them. And why? Calvin strongly implies this is to give God glory and honor. But at the same time, Calvin contends God needs nothing at all from us or from creation.

Proverbs 16:4
The LORD has made everything for its own purpose, Even the wicked for the day of evil.

Ephesians 1:5-7
In love He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

Romans 8:28-30
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

In case you were wondering, to foreknow is not to take in knowledge of the future as if God did not already have it, but to know is to intimately know someone as Adam "knew" Eve: He knew us in a saving way before the foundation of the world.

Galatians 4:9
But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God...

Romans 9:14-16
What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

What about God wanting, desiring, and decreeing His elect to live a holy, pure, righteous, godly, and loving life, but can't even get those He chose to do it.

He does though: There is a major difference in the lives of true believers from those of unbelievers. His Spirit writes His laws on our hearts.

 

[sdowney717]

He does though: There is a major difference in the lives of true believers from those of unbelievers. His Spirit writes His laws on our hearts.

Exactly how the New Covenant works, God does this.
Hebrews 8
A New Covenant
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord:

I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”

13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

v10 pretty much tells us that God has chosen those whom He saves in His new covenant, that first off, He will be their God, He has chosen to be their God, and secondly, then because He is their God, He PUTS HIS LAWS in their minds, and writes them on their hearts, they WILL therefore be His people.
Any other way is antichrist, There is no way to God but through His Son, there is no way to God but by God.

 

[EmSw]

"Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because I tell you, many will try to enter and won't be able." Luke 13:23-24

"Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it.

How narrow is the gate, and restricted is the way that leads to life!

Few are those who find it." Matthew 7:13-14

How are the few saved who enter the narrow door? They make EVERY EFFORT (strive, labor fervently, fight) to enter the narrow door.

Why do many not find it? They make no effort to enter, and I will add, teach others to make no effort.

Not only is the gate narrow, but the way is restricted (troublesome, afflicted, difficult).

These passages are antagonistic to Calvinism and their doctrine of easy salvation without works.

 

[EmSw]

He does though: There is a major difference in the lives of true believers from those of unbelievers. His Spirit writes His laws on our hearts.

Really? So every one of His elect leads a holy, pure, godly, and loving life?

I would take the 'Reformed-colored' glasses off and have a look at reality.

 

[sdowney717]

How are the few saved who enter the narrow door? They make EVERY EFFORT (strive, labor fervently, fight) to enter the narrow door.

Why do many not find it? They make no effort to enter, and I will add, teach others to make no effort.

Not only is the gate narrow, but the way is restricted (troublesome, afflicted, difficult).

These passages are antagonistic to Calvinism and their doctrine of easy salvation without works.

Psa 110:3

Thy people shall be willing H5071 in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

It is God who gives them the ability by way of His power working in them.

1 Timothy 1:12
[ Glory to God for His Grace ] And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, puttingme into the ministry,

Christ said
John 15:5
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

You must abide in Him and He must abide in you, this is fundamental relationship in the New covenant, as is described in Hebrews 8

 

[ClothedInGrace]

How are the few saved who enter the narrow door? They make EVERY EFFORT (strive, labor fervently, fight) to enter the narrow door.

Why do many not find it? They make no effort to enter, and I will add, teach others to make no effort.

Not only is the gate narrow, but the way is restricted (troublesome, afflicted, difficult).

These passages are antagonistic to Calvinism and their doctrine of easy salvation without works.

I would be careful. You seem to be teaching salvation by works in your last statement. Salvation is God's work, not ours.