Calvinism, explained.

[ClothedInGrace]

Romans 10:13
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Isaiah 55:1-13
“Come, everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and he who has no money, come, buy and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without price. ... Incline your ear, and come to me; hear, that your soul may live; and I will make with you an everlasting covenant

John 5:40
Yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


John 6:37
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 12:32

And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”



There are more if you would like them.

I don't disagree with any of those verses. I disagree with the notion that Jesus wants to save every human soul but can't do it.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Well that is not what Calvinism teaches, so I'm not sure what kind of a Calvinist you are. You do not even understand free-will so how can you say what you are?

Free-will is free-will.

Not having a choice, not free-will.

Free will teaches a sinner can of their own will choose to love God. We believe that man's wills are enslaved to sin and need to be freed by the Spirit in order to come to Christ. How can a sinner hate God one moment then love Him the next? Why do you love God and another person doesn't? We give glory to God: You say it's free will.

 

[Aldebaran]

Arrogance is the problem, not Calvinism. Have you never met an arrogant Arminian?

Like I said, you will know them by their fruits. That goes for all of us. I'm just pointing out that I've seen arrogance on open display from Calvanists far more than anyone else.

 

[Aldebaran]

Free will teaches a sinner can of their own will choose to love God. We believe that man's wills are enslaved to sin and need to be freed by the Spirit in order to come to Christ. How can a sinner hate God one moment then love Him the next? Why do you love God and another person doesn't? We give glory to God: You say it's free will.

It's not that we loved God that we come to Him. It's often because we don't want to go to hell. Once a person sees the reality of something, then it's likely they choose to go in the direction that benefits them in that reality. If a person becomes convinced God is real and that they are a sinner and are doomed, what is the logical conclusion to come to?

 

[ClothedInGrace]

It's not that we loved God that we come to Him. It's often because we don't want to go to hell. Once a person sees the reality of something, then it's likely they choose to go in the direction that benefits them in that reality. If a person becomes convinced God is real and that they are a sinner and are doomed, what is the logical conclusion to come to?

Why are some convinced and others are not? Are they just smarter? More intelligent?

 

[Aldebaran]

Why are some convinced and others are not? Are they just smarter? More intelligent?

I can't answer that. I wasn't convinced at first. I thought God was on the same level as the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause. Then I thought maybe He was just kind of "adult fairy tale" that adults continue believing in to some extent after they gave up on Santa Clause. But certain people showed me the reality of God on a level that I could relate to.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I don't disagree with any of those verses. I disagree with the notion that Jesus wants to save every human soul but can't do it.

I didn't say Jesus can't do it.

What I have said from the start is that Jesus gives human beings free-will. In that, He does not force anyone to come to Him, but He does want everyone to be saved.

So how do you reconcile those verses with Calvinism? That only the ones God choses are saved and not everyone has the chance?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Why are some convinced and others are not? Are they just smarter? More intelligent?

Why would you ask that?

As a Calvinist you already have an answer. THe wrong one, but an answer non-the-less.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Like I said, you will know them by their fruits. That goes for all of us. I'm just pointing out that I've seen arrogance on open display from Calvanists far more than anyone else.

True dat.

They have been 'chosen' by God and others 'have not been chosen'. There is serious arrogance in that. Pride too.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

I didn't say Jesus can't do it.

What I have said from the start is that Jesus gives human beings free-will. In that, He does not force anyone to come to Him, but He does want everyone to be saved.

So how do you reconcile those verses with Calvinism? That only the ones God choses are saved and not everyone has the chance?

If you loved someone and they were walking out into oncoming traffic would you be more concerned with their free will or with their safety? I think you diminish the love of God by saying that he loves everyone but won't use His power to save them.

With regards to the verses, you are interpreting all and everyone in universal terms, but in context they don't necessarily mean every human soul.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Why would you ask that?

As a Calvinist you already have an answer. THe wrong one, but an answer non-the-less.

Okay, if my answer--the Grace of God--is wrong, then what is the correct answer?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Free will teaches a sinner can of their own will choose to love God. We believe that man's wills are enslaved to sin and need to be freed by the Spirit in order to come to Christ. How can a sinner hate God one moment then love Him the next? Why do you love God and another person doesn't? We give glory to God: You say it's free will.

It is not by loving God that one is saved.

It is by faith.

You should at least know what saves a person, don't you think?

 

[ClothedInGrace]

True dat.

They have been 'chosen' by God and others 'have not been chosen'. There is serious arrogance in that. Pride too.

How? We are saved by God because of who He is, not because of who we are. If anyone should have pride it is the Arminian, who of their free will choose God while others did not. They have something to boast about, but not the Calvinist, because we say it is all of God.

 

[Albion]

True dat.

They have been 'chosen' by God and others 'have not been chosen'. There is serious arrogance in that. Pride too.

I'd love to have you explain how God's election is a matter of "arrogance" or "pride," especially since we do not know who the elect are. Is it that God is supposed to be arrogant, having made his choice?

 

[ClothedInGrace]

It is not by loving God that one is saved.

It is by faith.

You should at least know what saves a person, don't you think?

A person who has faith in God also loves Him. You know that, don't you?

 

[ToBeLoved]

Okay, if my answer--the Grace of God--is wrong, then what is the correct answer?

What is your definition of the grace of God? Just so we are on the same page. Talking apples and apples.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I'd love to have you explain how God's election is a matter of "arrogance" or "pride," especially since we do not know who the elect are. Is it that God is supposed to be arrogant, having made his choice?

No, what I did say is that Calvinist's for the most part, seem to have pride and show arrogance in that they feel they have been 'chosen' for salvation and others have not.

 

[ToBeLoved]

A person who has faith in God also loves Him. You know that, don't you?

Not always. Many come to salvation because they fear God. But if that person reads the Bible and is lead by the Holy Spirit they will soon see how much God loves them and they are secure in Him.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

What is your definition of the grace of God? Just so we are on the same page. Talking apples and apples.

We come to know God when His Spirit enlightens our minds and hearts to believe the Gospel. I was saved reading the Bible: He revealed the Gospel to me and I believed it. No one was arguing with me or trying to convince me to make a free will choice, but I simply heard the words of Christ and believed.

 

[Albion]

No, what I did say is that Calvinist's for the most part, seem to have pride and show arrogance in that they feel they have been 'chosen' for salvation and others have not.

I know many Calvinists. Not one of them has said that he knows himself to be among the Elect, and "Calvinism" considers this to be something known to God but not to all of us. It's said that there's a certain arrogance among Calvinists but not because they can name those who are the Elect.