Calvinism, explained.

[EmSw]

But, in the same way, can't a person who chooses of his free will to love God also with that same free will choose to hate Him?

BINGO! That's the essence of free will. Choose life or choose death.

If salvation depends upon the wills of men then how can anyone have assurance? I have assurance because I know my salvation is God's will.

1 John 3
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

If your love towards others is just in word and tongue, then you have no assurance. Only when we love in deed and truth do we have assurance of knowing we are of the truth before Him.

John 1:12-13
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

The key is 'as many as received Him'. Receive means to take or catch. To receive Jesus, is to receive His word also. I've already shown you it is those who strive, fight, and labor fervently, will enter the door and be saved.

 

[EmSw]

I would be careful. You seem to be teaching salvation by works in your last statement. Salvation is God's work, not ours.

Can't you see this is the teaching of Jesus? The Sovereign Jesus many do not want to hear nor obey.

 

[ToBeLoved]

What about God wanting, desiring, and decreeing His elect to live a holy, pure, righteous, godly, and loving life, but can't even get those He chose to do it.

Good point.

We have free-will even after salvation.

Yup.

 

[ToBeLoved]

That would take an awfully long time. I already told you that you interpret "all" and "everyone" in a universal way, when in context they don't always mean that. "All" and "world" often times refers to Jews and Gentiles as opposed to just Jews: Before Christ salvation was thought to be only for the Israel. All people can mean all kinds of people, like it does in 1 Timothy 2:4 when you read the context about praying for kings and people in authority. In 2 Peter 3:9 he is writing to the church and says God is "patient towards you," and not wanting any to perish in that context, but not necessarily for everyone. If there is a particular verse you need help with then let me know.

So you are saying when the BIble uses 'all' it does not mean all?

Then you do not believe the Bible is truth or God's Word.

Don't you think you should at least be able to refute some of the verses? I mean if your view is true, the Bible would reflect that, right?

None of the verses I used were only for the Jews or the Gentiles. If you will research the verses and respond as I requested you would see that. But you do not want to take the time to find out what is true.

 

[sdowney717]

BINGO! That's the essence of free will. Choose life or choose death.



1 John 3
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

If your love towards others is just in word and tongue, then you have no assurance. Only when we love in deed and truth do we have assurance of knowing we are of the truth before Him.



The key is 'as many as received Him'. Receive means to take or catch. To receive Jesus, is to receive His word also. I've already shown you it is those who strive, fight, and labor fervently, will enter the door and be saved.

The reason they fight for the faith, is they 'were born of God'

John 1:12-13
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

In truth, scriptures specifically state this 'nor of the will of the flesh'. They were not willing. God made them willing in the day of His power.

Leaving out the disqualifiers of being born, it says this

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, ...., who were born of God.

So then born of God first, because they were born again then received Him as Lord. In perfect agreement with Christ saying you must be born again to then enter the kingdom.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

What is more important, free will or God's will? Does free will reign or does God's will reign? Does free will save or does God's will save?

What does the Bible teach?

 

[ClothedInGrace]

So you are saying when the BIble uses 'all' it does not mean all?

Then you do not believe the Bible is truth or God's Word.

All means what it means in context.

I believe the Bible over whatever man says. I believe the Bible over everything you teach or say.

 

[EmSw]

The reason they fight for the faith, is they 'were born of God'

John 1:12-13
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

In truth, scriptures specifically state this 'nor of the will of the flesh'. They were not willing. God made them willing in the day of His power.

Leaving out the disqualifiers of being born, it says this

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, ...., who were born of God.

So then born of God first, because they were born again then received Him as Lord. In perfect agreement with Christ saying you must be born again to then enter the kingdom.

The passages do not say fight for the faith. They fight, strive, and labor to enter the narrow door to be saved.

If a person is not willing of himself, he will not do it. If another 'makes' them willing, then he will fight against it tooth and nail. No one allows another to tell them what to do, unless they are forced, in which case, they will despise the person who is forcing them. This is why we are to humble ourselves before God. Then He will give us grace, then He will exalt us, and then He will lift us up.

Ask a prisoner if they love the guards who make them do things against their will. The guards 'make' them do things against their wills.

One can not be born of God without the truth of His word. As Peter says, we are born again of the incorruptible word. And without faith, the word is useless to us.

 

[EmSw]

What is more important, free will or God's will? Does free will reign or does God's will reign? Does free will save or does God's will save?

What does the Bible teach?

Let's see, have you sinned? If so, then your free will reigns over God's will. Do you keep His commandments? If not, then your free will reigns over His. Do you cast away all your iniquities to make yourself a new heart? If not, then your free will reigns over God's will.

 

[EmSw]

All means what it means in context.

I believe the Bible over whatever man says. I believe the Bible over everything you teach or say.

Do you believe the Sovereign Bible when it says to cast away all your iniquities to make yourself a new heart?

Do you believe the Sovereign Bible when it says to strive, fight, and labor to enter the narrow gate to be saved?

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Let's see, have you sinned? If so, then your free will reigns over God's will. Do you keep His commandments? If not, then your free will reigns over His. Do you cast away all your iniquities to make yourself a new heart? If not, then your free will reigns over God's will.

There, you said it. You believe free will reigns over God's will. Listen to this statement from the king who was turned into a beast by our Lord:

Daniel 4:35
All the peoples of the earth
are regarded as nothing.
He does as he pleases
with the powers of heaven
and the peoples of the earth.
No one can hold back his hand
or say to him: “What have you done?”

Christ's prayer was that God's will would be done, not man's.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Do you believe the Sovereign Bible when it says to cast away all your iniquities to make yourself a new heart?

Do you believe the Sovereign Bible when it says to strive, fight, and labor to enter the narrow gate to be saved?

I believe the Bible when it says that God will give us a new heart.

I believe the Bible when it says that I was predestined to be saved. Yes, the way is narrow and hard, but God gets us through. There will be no boasting in His presence: No one can say "I strived, labored, fought, and was saved all of my own will and power!"

 

[EmSw]

There, you said it. You believe free will reigns over God's will. Listen to this statement from the king who was turned into a beast by our Lord:

Daniel 4:35
All the peoples of the earth
are regarded as nothing.
He does as he pleases
with the powers of heaven
and the peoples of the earth.
No one can hold back his hand
or say to him: “What have you done?”

Christ's prayer was that God's will would be done, not man's.

Perhaps you didn't understand what I said. If you freely chose to sin, then your will reigns over God's will. Therefore I ask, have you, or do you still freely choose to sin?

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Perhaps you didn't understand what I said. If you freely chose to sin, then your will reigns over God's will. Therefore I ask, have you, or do you still freely choose to sin?

My will does not reign over God's will: I can only sin because His will allows it for His good purposes.

 

[EmSw]

I believe the Bible when it says that God will give us a new heart.

I believe the Bible when it says that I was predestined to be saved. Yes, the way is narrow and hard, but God gets us through. There will be no boasting in His presence: No one can say "I strived, labored, fought, and was saved all of my own will and power!"

Why in the world do you want to add 'saved ALL of my own'? No one even hinted at that.

I'm sorry if Jesus' words mean little to you. If Jesus says for you to strive to enter the narrow gate, then He surely means it as truth. Yes, God will get us through, but only to one who desires and is willing to labor.

 

[ToBeLoved]

What is more important, free will or God's will? Does free will reign or does God's will reign? Does free will save or does God's will save?

What does the Bible teach?

Why don't you tell us and quote the Bible verses that support your position?

It does not matter what is more important to human beings, what matters is what God wants and does. You should want to find out what God wants and says. I have given you the verses, but you said there are too many for you to read and go through. Do you not want to find out what God's Word says?

 

[ToBeLoved]

My will does not reign over God's will: I can only sin because His will allows it for His good purposes.

Can you quote the scripture that supports that?

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Why in the world do you want to add 'saved ALL of my own'? No one even hinted at that.

I'm sorry if Jesus' words mean little to you. If Jesus says for you to strive to enter the narrow gate, then He surely means it as truth. Yes, God will get us through, but only to one who desires and is willing to labor.

In your view, salvation is largely dependent on the one being saved, not the one doing the saving. So yes, you are hinting at being saved all of your own power and will, because ultimately God's power and will doesn't matter--YOU decide, not Him.

Why do you and ToBeLoved keep slandering me as if I did not believe the Bible and Christ's Word with all my soul? Have I once doubted your faith in the Lord? No, we are discussing theology. Don't be a hypocrite and call Calvinists unloving when you yourself are not being very gracious.

 

[EmSw]

My will does not reign over God's will: I can only sin because His will allows it for His good purposes.

You can only sin because of Him? Where in the world does God say to sin? Do I need to remind of all the passages which state the opposite?

If you freely choose to sin, then yes, your will reigns over God's will.

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

John says the one who commits sin is of the devil. Jesus was manifested to destroy the devil's works, not that you can sin because He allows it.

 

[ClothedInGrace]

Why don't you tell us and quote the Bible verses that support your position?

It does not matter what is more important to human beings, what matters is what God wants and does. You should want to find out what God wants and says. I have given you the verses, but you said there are too many for you to read and go through. Do you not want to find out what God's Word says?

I know all of those verses... You asked if I could explain each of them to you and I said to do so would be a tiresome task. If you want me to deal with a certain verse for you, then bring it to my attention.